Nathan Jones appointed new Charlton Athletic manager!

[massivebeak]

I also want him gone- I genuinely think he’s self sabotaging and wants to go. Our season is already finished and it’s only bloody Nov. We’re absolutely shite and I’m fed up with it season after season. Sorry rant over.

[clarky]

Nov 9, 2024 19:56:05 GMT massivebeak said:

I also want him gone- I genuinely think he’s self sabotaging and wants to go. Our season is already finished and it’s only bloody Nov. We’re absolutely shite and I’m fed up with it season after season. Sorry rant over.

Unfortunately, our season is not over, our current form is relegation material.

[clarky]

I think we have 6 pts out of the last 24, 1 win in 8 games that is a disgrace let alone a team allegedly with a top 4 budget.
Not sure if the likes of Wycombe have 2/3 so called billionaires backing them but they are getting it right where we continually get it wrong.

[roburwash]

We can all see the uselessness of Jones' football - smashing long balls in the hope that something might happen. My god, I could advance that as a style of play and I'd do it for half his money.

[bigandy99]

Mark Robins is available.. just saying.. he knows what he’s doing in this league.,

[sevenoaks]

Two year plan..😂..
Every year is becoming the same as we recycle and replace with players not as good as the ones that left.
This football is awful to watch, and yes there are many injuries, but I don't think that is the main reason for these displays.
I think Miles Leaburn also is being forced to play more minutes than he should be at this moment.
In all honesty yesterday we didn't look like scoring if we had played all night.
Do we even have one player that the fans can relate to?. ..

[earlpurple]

Nov 9, 2024 20:38:19 GMT clarky said:

I think we have 6 pts out of the last 24, 1 win in 8 games that is a disgrace let alone a team allegedly with a top 4 budget.
Not sure if the likes of Wycombe have 2/3 so called billionaires backing them but they are getting it right where we continually get it wrong.

Wycombe do have a billionaire owner but I think he has a similar mindset to ours of not over-budgeting and looking for sustainability.

[dickybaby]

As we look to integrate more youth team players into the squad the style of football baffles me. We continually produce fast offensive players many who thrive on width. This narrow long ball style is ineffective anyway clearly but even more so wont work for our younger players

I'm conflicted by the obvious need for stability against the awful style of football. I could forgive it if we were watertight at the back but you cant even say we have that anymore

Overall we need to give Jones a few transfer windows but this season has been a big disappointment

[discocafc]

Sacking isn’t the answer and will do Charlton more harm than good. With the exception of Bowyer we haven’t had a manager who’s completed a full season since Powell ffs. We need stability.

The recruitment of players needs questioning! We’re lacking in attacking in so many areas I don’t know where the goals are going to come from. Put a Jensen or Matt Holland in that side and we’ll be in a much better position.

[grapevine49]

I entirely understand the sentiments and indeed the valid concerns but sorry it is never as simple as people are shit at their job. People do not set out to fail and there are reasons why they do. No, our eyes do not lie but neither do a number of the CVs in the building. Mr Jones is perfectly able to defend himself and he probably needs to. That’s not for me. Just as with Appleton I can understand why he has made certain decisions. Whether they are coherent or consistent and have genuine merit is entirely another matter.

The manager is shit is just too easy an answer. At face value all it will do is rinse and repeat with the next candidate and the next and the next. Can we be very clear the current issues go well beyond Mr Jones.

Any number of us can pose any number of questions but I am not sure mine would be the same as some. My puzzlement is why he chose to take the job in the first place. If he cannot offer a sensible calculation (a word I used advisedly) he needs to consider his future because this club is simply not set up for him to succeed.

I can see the attraction of knowing a bit about the place, the history, a club in need of a complete rebuild but quite simply a flawed infrastructure, flawed business plan, yes, with a viable strategy but a hugely deprived organisation in terms of working capital, operational infrastructure and palpably weak market position to implement it. Stuff the history, it today is every inch a mediocre League 1 club.

I am not looking to demonise anyone but what group of people sets themselves up in January 2023 to run a business without dotting all the « i «  s and crossing all the « t »s. After a breakdown in negotiations it resulted in 6 weeks of chaos, confusion, and overwhelming instability. You seriously expect people to perform in such an environment? Beyond adding Mr Holden can anyone remember the happy band of playing additions. Hector (Off the street), Kane, Penny, Kilkenny, & Bonne.

Every industry has its trading cycle which you ignore at your peril. This lot did. This happy bunch of adventurers chose to complete the transaction 6 weeks before the end of the 2023/24 transfer window. Is it manageable? If you have all your ducks in a row it is. We added 12 players. So well did it work they went and did it again in adding 9 more in the January window and still needed to try out Wickham and Lua-Lua. Who but the desperate or delusional does a mini rebuild in a January Window in the midst of sacking the then Manager who has been in the building 4 months. Is any of this making sense to you?

After 3 managers they delivered our worst season in living memory. Of the those under contract in 2023/2024 by seasons end circa 38 had left the building. Of those only Blackett-Taylor is sporadically playing at a higher level. After that lot, add in paying off Garner, Holden, Appleton, Kirk and Fraser and carrying Aneke’s contract then tell me what your top 4 budget actually means in real terms.

Whatever « Hail fellow well met » Mr Methven espouses this is on his watch.

Does he and we have a right to expect better? We do. Does Mr Jones? I suggest he does too. Is this clubhouse structured to his « raison d’etre » (remember this is the type of guy who lives his job)? No. As it stands just 4 of the defenders are ones he signed, while so inexperienced or injury prone is his forward line he actually feels the need to sign a 7th choice striker! Who the fuck does that?

Aneke doesn’t feature, Kanu, Campbell are injured, Ahadme is recovering from injury, does Leaburn after a year out look fit ( I mean who knew) and Godden looks like the strain is getting to him.

The midfield is a bigger conundrum. Yes I have actually seen Docherty and Campbell perform well. Berry has long been an off the bench contributor but with Coventry and Taylor it simply is not only not working it is absolutely horrible. I really think we should have kept Bishop.

I could go on but this is all ready too long. I will close with two reference points

I recall Bowyer being very interested in bringing in an experienced wide player on a free I think from Burton. It didn’t happen. What he did get was young Jayiesimi after one good season at Swindon. A season later Jackson was trying the lad at wing back. It was rabbit in headlights stuff.

Not much later Bowyer walked. We have since ploughed through Adkins, Jackson, Garner, Holden, Appleton and now Jones. You seriously think No 8 is going to be the answer?

I reference Jaiyesimi (I am pleased the lad has found a home at Orient) because when this past July and August you were thinking of our promotion plans where exactly did you see a young Jamaican 20yr with 1 international start for Jamaica and 10 starts in the Jamaican Premier League being a key component.

Yet today there Dixon sits in our senior squad and in people’s hearts and minds. If you are telling me it is a football decision for 2024/25 it defines what this club has become. Emboldened with an over performing Academy it is a never ending unfulfilled promise of a better tomorrow …where tomorrow never comes.

I concede I am struggling to keep with it. I wish you guys the best.

[reamsofverse]

All this two, three or four year plan talk is utter nonsense. It's just an excuse to give yourself a little bit of leeway if things aren't going well.

What is the point in us having a four year plan when teams are coming up from the division below us and doing much better than we are on a much lower budget?

It's utter bollocks.

[scabbyhorse]

As I mentioned on another thread, the owners are just as responsible as Jones. They’re as bad, if not worse, than Roland. Old "Salmon Trousers" is a complete charlatan, and there’s no real four-year plan as Reams has mentioned. They sold investors on a pipe dream—promotion and a quick flip next season—but these investors clearly have little interest in Charlton or its history, unlike the dedicated owners at clubs like Wrexham and Birmingham.

The time is quickly approaching for us to make Methven and company understand how we really feel.
I’ll also add that Jones's long-ball football—which he claims is "front-footed"—feels absolutely aimless and desperate, with no real structure or creativity. At this rate, it’s going to drive even more fans away as the season goes on, and for that alone, he needs to be shown the door.

Most of us would accept mid-table mediocrity at this point if it meant watching a team that was actually trying to play decent football. But with the way Jones sets his teams up, what’s the point in even bringing in creative players if the ball is just going to be hoofed up in the air?
Additionally, selling May has to be one of the most idiotic decisions in Charlton’s history—another reason , Jones deserves the sack. It’s a move that shows a complete lack of understanding, and it’s almost unforgivable.

[earlpurple]

The issue is that the Championship is a league where losses of something like 13 million a year are considered par for the course, and the main reason we are down in this league is that Roland was not prepared to lose that much each season, either 2015-16 or 2019-20.
Still in the latter season we were that close to staying up, but we'd have probably gone down sooner or later anyway.

One thing Methven goes on about a lot in his podcasts are introducing similar rules in the Championship and my feeling is that until that happens he doesn't really want us playing there.

Unfortunately much of football is which club has the best sugar-daddy and we all would like it to be us. I don't know exactly what rules Manchester City have broken but to me it seems that most fans of other clubs are just jealous that their owners are richer than anyone else's so they've "bought" 6 of the last 7 league titles.

For me, I'm just happy Ipswich beat Spurs today pushing Palace into the bottom 3 and I'm hoping they'll stay there. I'm fed up of seeing them up there.

[roburwash]

Grapevine, you say, "The manager is shit is just too easy an answer." Who is deciding that we should play hopeful long ball football? I'm sure it's not the owners or even the SMT. We all can see that not only is it an ugly tactic but it is simply not working. Who trains that into the team? Not the owners, not the SMT.

[earlpurple]

Nov 10, 2024 18:35:09 GMT roburwash said:

Grapevine, you say, "The manager is shit is just too easy an answer." Who is deciding that we should play hopeful long ball football? I'm sure it's not the owners or even the SMT. We all can see that not only is it an ugly tactic but it is simply not working. Who trains that into the team? Not the owners, not the SMT.

It's what tends to happen when we have a tall player. Same when we had Jayden Stockley.

[roburwash]

Nov 10, 2024 20:30:34 GMT earlpurple said:

Nov 10, 2024 18:35:09 GMT roburwash said:

Grapevine, you say, "The manager is shit is just too easy an answer." Who is deciding that we should play hopeful long ball football? I'm sure it's not the owners or even the SMT. We all can see that not only is it an ugly tactic but it is simply not working. Who trains that into the team? Not the owners, not the SMT.

It's what tends to happen when we have a tall player. Same when we had Jayden Stockley.

But who chooses to play like that even when it's obviously not working?

[surridgecobbler5]

Enough is enough Jones has to go quickly

[chertseyaddick]

Problem is who to replace him? Robins has been mentioned but his record is no better than Jones. Give Pearce a transfer window and the rest of the season? Only contenders I can see are Powell or Bowyer who both have failures on their CV.

Do we have feelers out to Scandinavia or Flemish clubs? Bargain basement but play quality.

[discocafc]

January transfer window can’t come quick enough.

[madz]

Nov 11, 2024 10:46:16 GMT discocafc said:

January transfer window can’t come quick enough.

will need to seriously address the need for decent replacement/cover for Lloyd Jones as well as bring in some creative midfielders/wingers. If Potts hadn't got injured too i suspect he would be playing now. With Jones there, Mitchell and Gillesphy looked good. Their confidence appears shot at the moment.

I'm fed up with changing managers every 5 minutes. I had no problem with us getting Jones and thought it was a high profile appointment for League One.  If NJ doesn't want to be here that's different, but if thats not the case then he needs to be backed again in January and bring in the right sort of players. He messed up bringing in too many of the sort of midfielders (Berry, Campbell and Docherty). He also didn't need to waste wages on Hylton. Dixon appears to be just a publicity stunt at the moment, which is unfair on the lad especially as he has relocated so far away from home. He can't be anywhere near ready for 1st team if Hylton is getting in ahead of him.  Ahadme needs service. Godden has done well considering the lack of service. Not really surprising we have lost Aneke again, and assume he will be gone at the end of this season.

[grapevine49]

Roburwash - the long ball comment is more than fair but I don’t see it as so straightforward. Why use it? It is a simple way to bypass/ turn the opposition midfield and test/ pressure the opposition central defence, The negative is it is the default if your defence is struggling and you need the ball far from your goal or your wing back/ midfield/ forward players are not creating space or running channels.

Often one player can make a big difference - Kermorgant covered a multitude of sins. It is why Stockley, Magennis & Marquis will to a lesser degree still earn a living and why someone will likely give Wickham a short term deal in 2024/25.

Why is the long ball floundering now? The by product is « the press ». If the front 2 are not effective, in 4-2-2-2, the next 2 in the press are often left chasing shadows. Leaburn (at 70%) is not offering the aggression & mobility of Ahadme. Godden doesn’t have the legs of T. Campbell. No surprise, A. Campell & Docherty are frequently by-passed. « The press » is straightforward in principle but has to be coordinated to be effective. Get it wrong and opponents will just pick you off.

I could offer further analysis but would largely be repeating myself which is no one’s interest. This squad stuff comes with no guarantees. The early games tell you what you have in terms of ability, fitness. competition, adaptability, experience, recent playing history and notably promotion ambitions. No manager ever gets all he wants and faces compromises but the scale of compromise can never stretch too far.

For me as of now the structure reflects less promotion compromises more promotion millstones. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen but there would a heavy weight to carry to cross that line.

[joeblack]

My view of the long ball option as it is now is that it stems from lack of confidence. We start off moving the ball from side to side at the back, occasionally pushing into midfield, only to have it return as the midfielders get closed down, panic and pass to the backs to deal with. No confidence! Occasionally a forward makes a run into space only for this to go unseen or ignored by whoever has the ball. Which ends up with the back four who are gradually pressed back until someone in desperation hoofs it forwards.

Too many of our players lack either composure, confidence or basic skills (I doubt it is number three but it isnt entirely the first two) but some of what I have watched this season really looks like players humping it forward because they know at least if we lose posessio, it will be far enough up the pitch that we don't all get caught out of position and conceed on the break.

[se7sm]

Doesn’t matter who the manager is and as said we have had plenty, if he isn’t given a pot to piss in your going to get the same results.all this high budget stuff is utter crap who have we signed of any quality worth money ,this does make me wonder what was jones told to convince him to sign in the first place probably the same as the yanks 🤣

[aaronaldo]

Nov 12, 2024 17:18:05 GMT se7sm said:

Doesn’t matter who the manager is and as said we have had plenty, if he isn’t given a pot to piss in your going to get the same results.all this high budget stuff is utter crap who have we signed of any quality worth money ,this does make me wonder what was jones told to convince him to sign in the first place probably the same as the yanks 🤣

We’re right up there this year (ignoring Birmingham) for spend in the summer window. So I don’t know what you mean about ‘high budget utter crap’. You’ll see from our accounts that it’s not a lie.

The issue is far too many other clubs do a lot better at recruitment than we do on far smaller budgets. Our recruitment seems to be missing key elements. We lack pace pretty much everywhere. This has a massive effect in our midfield and our ability to control the centre of the park. Often Doc, Campbell, Coventry look like they are running in a swamp compared to the opposition who glide by them. It also means we lack the ability to really counter teams and turn defence quickly into attack. We then have zero creativity. Our lack of pace and agility throughout the team has been an issue for years, especially in midfield and defence. We just seem to overlook it as pacey players cost more.

I’m yet to be convinced Ahadme was worth a fee, let alone the amount we paid for him (assuming the rumours are true of course. We know how those Coventry rumours ended up!). I remain hopeful it was mainly the tactics we employed that made him look so poor, although my hope isn’t much if I’m honest.

[se7sm]

Nov 12, 2024 18:23:57 GMT aaronaldo said:

Nov 12, 2024 17:18:05 GMT se7sm said:

Doesn’t matter who the manager is and as said we have had plenty, if he isn’t given a pot to piss in your going to get the same results.all this high budget stuff is utter crap who have we signed of any quality worth money ,this does make me wonder what was jones told to convince him to sign in the first place probably the same as the yanks 🤣

We’re right up there this year (ignoring Birmingham) for spend in the summer window. So I don’t know what you mean about ‘high budget utter crap’. You’ll see from our accounts that it’s not a lie.

The issue is far too many other clubs do a lot better at recruitment than we do on far smaller budgets. Our recruitment seems to be missing key elements. We lack pace pretty much everywhere. This has a massive effect in our midfield and our ability to control the centre of the park. Often Doc, Campbell, Coventry look like they are running in a swamp compared to the opposition who glide by them. It also means we lack the ability to really counter teams and turn defence quickly into attack. We then have zero creativity. Our lack of pace and agility throughout the team has been an issue for years, especially in midfield and defence. We just seem to overlook it as pacey players cost more.

I’m yet to be convinced Ahadme was worth a fee, let alone the amount we paid for him (assuming the rumours are true of course. We know how those Coventry rumours ended up!). I remain hopeful it was mainly the tactics we employed that made him look so poor, although my hope isn’t much if I’m honest.

Expenditure Net Spending
1 Birmingham City FC $16.78 million $11.23 million
2 Charlton Athletic $1.31 million $294,000
3 Peterborough United $1.11 million $6.7 million GAIN
4 Huddersfield Town $1.08 million $5.46 million GAIN
5 Bolton Wanderers $1.04 million $1.04 million
6 Bristol Rovers $987,000 $422,000
7 Burton Albion $654,000 $654,000
8 Wrexham AFC $555,000 $555,000
9 Stockport County $500,000 $500,000
10 Barnsley FC $260,000 $260,000
11 Mansfield Town $255,000 $255,000
12 Lincoln City $144,000 $377,000 GAIN
13 Stevenage FC $131,000 $524,000 GAIN
14 Blackpool $0 $0
15 Cambridge City $0 $0
16 Crawley Town $0 $0
17 Exeter City $0 $0
18 Leyton Orient $0 $0
19 Northampton Town $0 $0
20 Reading FC $0 $0
21 Shrewsbury Town $0 $0
22 Wycombe Wanderers $0 $0
23 Rotherham United $0 $2.57 million GAIN
24 Wigan Athletic $0 $5.22 million GAIN
£300000 hardly pushing the boat out