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Post by se7sm on Feb 15, 2024 16:20:04 GMT
Forget the SCMP if billionaire owners want to throw in 100 million there’s nothing stopping them but just won’t get it back as it would be a donation and not a loan 😂basically if we wanted to push the boat out could of bought anyone but obviously the owners have got to up for it .🤔 Ask how that's going for Reading fans when the owner decides he no longer wants to spunk money into the club... well, that’s a different kettle of Fish altogether, it beggars the question, why bother starting a project if you didn’t know where it was leading to. |
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Post by Mundell on Feb 15, 2024 17:46:43 GMT
Ask how that's going for Reading fans when the owner decides he no longer wants to spunk money into the club... well, that’s a different kettle of Fish altogether, it beggars the question, why bother starting a project if you didn’t know where it was leading to. …. because there’s never any guarantee of success. Dai Yongge has invested circa £200m in Reading, i.e. he’s transferred £200m into Reading’s back account. Now he’s either unable or unwilling to continue funding losses. |
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Post by seriouslyred on Feb 15, 2024 17:56:21 GMT
well, that’s a different kettle of Fish altogether, it beggars the question, why bother starting a project if you didn’t know where it was leading to. …. because there’s never any guarantee of success. Dai Yongge has invested circa £200m in Reading, i.e. he’s transferred £200m into Reading’s back account. Now he’s either unable or unwilling to continue funding losses. Long before he invested (lost) £200M he committed £50M to acquiring Reading and funding "better" players. What happened next interms of directors, managers etc.? It's easy to look at Ipswich, or Wrexham, or any club rising up through the leagues. But there's also a plethora of clubs who have lost £200M trying but failing to get to the EPL. |
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Post by kings hill addick on Feb 15, 2024 18:10:15 GMT
This is the key point. The only way to sign players that are playing regularly and are up to full fitness is to spend a small fortune on transfer fees and wages. All those calling for that will, no doubt, be the first to scream, when the club are having to sell players because we are failing the SCMP. If we over pay a player and he doesn't make it he will be on the wage bill and a burden, like Kirk was. The players we signed were brought in for a promotion challenge next season. Clearly we should have had one eye on a relegation battle but if, and this is not a certainty, we survive and the new signings will have been given a chance to get fit and show what they have to offer. I also agree that Aneke might not play the number of games Scott is calling for but he must have better information than we have. There was a poster on here, a few weeks ago, boasting that he knew, for a fact, that Aneke would not play again this season and that the club knew this and they were lying to us about it. That gives us a good idea how big the gap can be between a fan's 'guess' and what those that have the medical information, and the professional knowledge to analyse it, believe. Forget the SCMP if billionaire owners want to throw in 100 million there’s nothing stopping them but just won’t get it back as it would be a donation and not a loan 😂basically if we wanted to push the boat out could of bought anyone but obviously the owners have got to up for it .🤔 That is true but it is suggested that the rules are going to change in the Championship, and high wages for a player that isn't playing is going to be a problem. |
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 15, 2024 19:07:39 GMT
Incredible really ….the club is in just about the lowest league position in its history, and to read two forums & Twitter I’d say well over 90% of fanbase correctly attribute this to piss poor player recruitment. And that falls directly into the lap of Andy Scott.
And yet …we still have a couple of prominent posters basically saying take the rough with the smooth, trust the process, where there’s a Dr Will there’s a way, embrace the journey, etc 😵💫😵💫
It’s mind boggling in its dangerous complacency.
How many player’s worth their salt are going to want to join us in League Two next season ?
BTW ….the “throwing money at the problem” straw man is another tired & familiar one. I’d love us to have owners like Ipswich’s, or Wrexham’s. Or even Derby Couny’s.
Football is about passion and success and excitement, not bean counting.
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 15, 2024 19:11:44 GMT
seriouslyredBased on their track record at CAFC to date, should Charlie Methven and Andy Scott now be sacked by the investors ? 1. Yes 2. No
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Post by watameires on Feb 15, 2024 19:25:15 GMT
seriouslyredBased on their track record at CAFC to date, should Charlie Methven and Andy Scott now be sacked by the investors ? 1. Yes 2. No No - Decision for the end of the season |
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Post by seriouslyred on Feb 15, 2024 19:46:41 GMT
Why do we need a technical director Mundell Sir Alex Ferguson didn’t have one. Neither did Alan Curbishley. Or Bob Paisley. Or Brian Clough. The manager should be the No.1 - he should set the direction & tempo as he sees fit, and recruit accordingly. Fergie once said that he ensured that nobody at Man United earned more than he did - it was linked to his authority. Does our Technical Director earn more than our manager under SE7 ? You can’t even claim that having a Technical Director is about continuity - there has been a marked difference in style even between Holden & Appleton, let alone Jones. On the one hand all the examples shared are from the last century so perhaps time to move on and examine what clubs are doing this decade, rather than 30 years ago. However, few would argue that Clough, Paisley, Ferguson and Curbs all ran the show with nothing happening without their say so. All had their coaches taking training. They were effectively the Directors of the football side of their respective clubs. Passionate, mercurial and able to read people and situations to such an extent that they succeeded time and time again. I'm unclear why Andy Scott is being discussed alongside these legends unless it's to make some spurious nostalgic point comparing those who have succeeded in the top division to CAFC today... with three out of the four winning the League and European Cup multiple times. It's effectively the same old straw man of why aren't we challenging at the top of the Championship, just like Ipswich... PS Watched this last week fantastic! youtu.be/MaobwxJuAOs?si=gD8YKxs-a6XUlpJ7 |
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Post by clarky on Feb 15, 2024 20:16:56 GMT
If there is a need for a Technical Director at least pick a competent one, unfortunately Scott doesn't fit that criteria.
To answer the question should Methven and Scott be sacked by the investors then yes. Why delay the inevitable? Even if we stay up by the skin of our teeth it will still be our worst season in history. Get rid now before they do anymore damage. Methven brings nothing to the circus and Scott may hinder Jones in his attempt to get us out of this mess. How can they sack two managers and remain in post?
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Post by norfolkrobin on Feb 15, 2024 21:08:20 GMT
Incredible really ….the club is in just about the lowest league position in its history, and to read two forums & Twitter I’d say well over 90% of fanbase correctly attribute this to piss poor player recruitment. And that falls directly into the lap of Andy Scott. And yet …we still have a couple of prominent posters basically saying take the rough with the smooth, trust the process, where there’s a Dr Will there’s a way, embrace the journey, etc 😵💫😵💫 It’s mind boggling in its dangerous complacency. How many player’s worth their salt are going to want to join us in League Two next season ? BTW ….the “throwing money at the problem” straw man is another tired & familiar one. I’d love us to have owners like Ipswich’s, or Wrexham’s. Or even Derby Couny’s. Football is about passion and success and excitement, not bean counting. "Mind boggling in its dangerous complacency" This line rings TOO true. We haven’t got time or energy to put into an inquest now,NJ and the boys need all we have thrown behind solely them now. AS will have to explain his bizarre looking strategies and DM fetish to SE7 at some point I'm sure. |
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Post by jonkool on Feb 15, 2024 21:47:44 GMT
Surely peeps can see that Coventry is a far superior footballer than Bakinson… For a start he can actually control the football and pass it to a player wearing the same shirt .. or am I watching a different game to all? 🤔🤔🤔🤔 We can all make judgements of individual players, based upon one or more performances. What should be our main concern is how the midfield work as a unit, both creating chances as well as closing down the opposition. Just posted elsewhere that with a new formation, new players and new manager we're looking at a whole new ball game. One with the twin objectives of steering clear of the bottom four as well as assessing and building upon what we have. Ten years back we were in the Championship bottom six. In fact bottom of the table with 16 games to go. Fortunately Riga transformed our fortunes virtually overnight. Let's see where we are after a few more games. Yes Riga got us playing a pass and move style. However, we did have a balanced squad whereas Scott’s assembled squad post January window is bereft of wingers and creative midfielders. Without Chuks we are toothless up front. |
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Post by earlpurple on Feb 16, 2024 11:32:43 GMT
Incredible really ….the club is in just about the lowest league position in its history, and to read two forums & Twitter I’d say well over 90% of fanbase correctly attribute this to piss poor player recruitment. And that falls directly into the lap of Andy Scott. And yet …we still have a couple of prominent posters basically saying take the rough with the smooth, trust the process, where there’s a Dr Will there’s a way, embrace the journey, etc 😵💫😵💫 It’s mind boggling in its dangerous complacency. How many player’s worth their salt are going to want to join us in League Two next season ? BTW ….the “throwing money at the problem” straw man is another tired & familiar one. I’d love us to have owners like Ipswich’s, or Wrexham’s. Or even Derby Couny’s. Football is about passion and success and excitement, not bean counting. and seriouslyred both agree with you that Andy Scott is a problem, but they seem to differ in whether we should have a SMT at all, or just appoint a manager who "gets on with it". The "attraction" was that, by having academy players in our squad, we have an advantage over other clubs at this level because their salaries don't count towards the cap. Maybe that's the strategy but clearly we do not have enough good academy players this season to execute it, and in the past, they'd be loaned out to National League or League Two clubs to get the match experience, then if they are good enough, get into our first team. Unfortunately, after one season of them being absolutely brilliant for us, they'd get snapped up by other clubs, often for not nearly enough. That's something we hoped would stop. Nathan Jones has the ability ot build a squad. Scott's only purpose maybe one of setting budgets and salaries and I don't know what Rodwell's job would be. The one who Scott actually replaced here is Gallen. I know he wasn't that popular towards the end, but he wasn't that terrible. I think some people think it was Martin Sandgaard who was choosing the players to sign with his analytics. I don't know what his actual role was, but clearly we have done a lot worse with the new owners than we did with the Sandgaards, and even worse than we did with Roland Duchatalet. |
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Post by Mundell on Feb 16, 2024 15:34:29 GMT
Incredible really ….the club is in just about the lowest league position in its history, and to read two forums & Twitter I’d say well over 90% of fanbase correctly attribute this to piss poor player recruitment. And that falls directly into the lap of Andy Scott. And yet …we still have a couple of prominent posters basically saying take the rough with the smooth, trust the process, where there’s a Dr Will there’s a way, embrace the journey, etc 😵💫😵💫 It’s mind boggling in its dangerous complacency. How many player’s worth their salt are going to want to join us in League Two next season ? BTW ….the “throwing money at the problem” straw man is another tired & familiar one. I’d love us to have owners like Ipswich’s, or Wrexham’s. Or even Derby Couny’s. Football is about passion and success and excitement, not bean counting. and seriouslyred both agree with you that Andy Scott is a problem, but they seem to differ in whether we should have a SMT at all, or just appoint a manager who "gets on with it". The "attraction" was that, by having academy players in our squad, we have an advantage over other clubs at this level because their salaries don't count towards the cap. Maybe that's the strategy but clearly we do not have enough good academy players this season to execute it, and in the past, they'd be loaned out to National League or League Two clubs to get the match experience, then if they are good enough, get into our first team. Unfortunately, after one season of them being absolutely brilliant for us, they'd get snapped up by other clubs, often for not nearly enough. That's something we hoped would stop. Nathan Jones has the ability ot build a squad. Scott's only purpose maybe one of setting budgets and salaries and I don't know what Rodwell's job would be. The one who Scott actually replaced here is Gallen. I know he wasn't that popular towards the end, but he wasn't that terrible. I think some people think it was Martin Sandgaard who was choosing the players to sign with his analytics. I don't know what his actual role was, but clearly we have done a lot worse with the new owners than we did with the Sandgaards, and even worse than we did with Roland Duchatalet. It’s certainly fair to say that I believe the club will benefit in the medium to long term from having a Technical Director and a Director of Performance, both of whom work with a Manager or Head Coach (the distinction is one of semantics to me). The relationship between these three individuals obviously needs to be collaborative (as Nathan Jones has put it) because they’re in a partnership and are all seeking the same outcomes which is progression up the pyramid. I suspect you’re also right that seriouslyred shares this view, though I’m sure he can speak for himself. To state the obvious though, you need the right people in each of these three roles. And for me the question marks are fairly obviously around the people, not the structure. I’d make two further points about this. First, the role of a Technical Director is not just identifying and signing players. Indeed, that might only be a small, though obviously important, part of the role. It might also be that the Technical Director’s first challenge is to put together a scouting network and a process for recruitment which, once established, he may not be a central part of. I’ve no idea what Scott has been doing or what he sees himself as accountable for, but it’s fairly clear, of course, that at least so far, the recruitment under SE7 has been poor. Second, long gone are the days when Managers (they weren’t head coaches in those days) spent their weekdays driving up and down the M1 scouting players. Recruitment departments, staffed with scouts and data and video analysts are the norm today (where finances allow), but that doesn’t mean Managers and/or Head Coaches aren’t heavily involved in recruitment. Jurgen Klopp doesn’t spent his time pouring over data, watching videos or flying around Europe watching football matches - he’s said he doesn’t have time. And as it happens Liverpool is one of the clubs that has most developed the use of data and analytics. The club isn’t going to sign any players that Klopp doesn’t want or won’t play though. It’s a partnership. Txiki Begiristain is the DOF at Manchester City and brought Pep Guardiola, who he had played with at Barcelona, to the club. Txiki runs the recruitment process there. City sign very different players to Liverpool though because their recruitment departments know what their Managers want, not because their scouts “spot” different players or because they have different views on the same players. In my view the structure isn’t the problem. Indeed, the structure ought to be an asset and it’s a positive the investors have been willing to fund it. For that structure to work though you need the right people in each of the key roles AND those people need to work effectively together in a partnership with a shared goal. |
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Post by clarky on Feb 16, 2024 19:39:45 GMT
You almost wrote a book to say we haven't got the right people in any shape and form, to carry out a structure which should work
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 16, 2024 20:16:36 GMT
You almost wrote a book to say we haven't got the right people in any shape and form, to carry out a structure which should work 😂😂 Mundell and seriouslyred can never *quite* bring themselves to admit it though …even in one word, or 5,000. #brevity |
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Post by reamsofverse on Feb 17, 2024 11:42:00 GMT
SMT are standing by Scott 100%.
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Post by revilo on Feb 17, 2024 11:42:51 GMT
SMT are standing by Scott 100%. That is very alarming - what about the owners? |
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Post by watameires on Feb 17, 2024 12:11:06 GMT
SMT are standing by Scott 100%. That is very alarming - what about the owners? Isnt that what James/Jim said about the Applepie? |
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Post by eric on Feb 17, 2024 13:06:09 GMT
SMT are standing by Scott 100%. Comes as no surprise . They’re all in it together . |
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Post by aaronaldo on Feb 17, 2024 13:29:09 GMT
SMT are standing by Scott 100%. They aren’t exactly going to say otherwise or they? Never seen a football club ownership come out and say “Yeah we’re not sure about manager x”. It’s always 100% backed until they are sacked… |
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 17, 2024 13:29:25 GMT
SMT are standing by Scott 100%. Of course they are ….three cheeks on the same arse. |
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Post by clarky on Feb 17, 2024 14:04:46 GMT
Said all along that whilst Scott is a major problem those recruiting him are as much to blame. Get rid of Charlie and the rest will follow.
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Post by seriouslyred on Feb 17, 2024 20:26:28 GMT
Incredible really ….the club is in just about the lowest league position in its history, and to read two forums & Twitter I’d say well over 90% of fanbase correctly attribute this to piss poor player recruitment. And that falls directly into the lap of Andy Scott. And yet …we still have a couple of prominent posters basically saying take the rough with the smooth, trust the process, where there’s a Dr Will there’s a way, embrace the journey, etc 😵💫😵💫 It’s mind boggling in its dangerous complacency. How many player’s worth their salt are going to want to join us in League Two next season ? BTW ….the “throwing money at the problem” straw man is another tired & familiar one. I’d love us to have owners like Ipswich’s, or Wrexham’s. Or even Derby Couny’s. Football is about passion and success and excitement, not bean counting. When you mention successful clubs you're talking to clubs with appropriate budgets AND decent execution, as well as the vision to get somewhere. For every successful club securing promotion in the EFL there are 21 who don't. And many of those have appropriate budgets for their level. One either doesn't understand the difference between spending millions and delivering success through recruitment, training and culture, or one can be deliberately obtuse by pretending no such difference exists. Given what we've seen over the last couple of games it appears a tad premature to judge the squad right now and associated recruitment. Some prefer black and white certainty but it's unlikely we will find that here at Charlton. Let's see where we are at the end of March. |
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 19, 2024 15:19:28 GMT
Micheal Beale sacked this afternoon, after only 9 weeks and 12 games in charge of Sunderland.
Just goes to show you can act swiftly when you realise you have made a bum appointment.
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Post by aaronaldo on Feb 19, 2024 15:23:49 GMT
Micheal Beale sacked this afternoon, after only 9 weeks and 12 games in charge of Sunderland. Just goes to show you can act swiftly when you realise you have made a bum appointment. Wow. He's not lasted very long anywhere has he? |
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 19, 2024 15:30:10 GMT
Micheal Beale sacked this afternoon, after only 9 weeks and 12 games in charge of Sunderland. Just goes to show you can act swiftly when you realise you have made a bum appointment. Wow. He's not lasted very long anywhere has he? The final straw was Beale refusing to shake the hand of the Sunderland player he subbed when it was offered on Saturday night. A real no no for any manager, and drew a lot of attention to Beale yesterday on social media. I also think Beale sullied his reputation within the game when he quickly ditched QPR for Glasgow Rangers, having publicly said that he wouldn’t. |
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Post by se7sm on Feb 19, 2024 15:30:46 GMT
Micheal Beale sacked this afternoon, after only 9 weeks and 12 games in charge of Sunderland. Just goes to show you can act swiftly when you realise you have made a bum appointment. Wow. He's not lasted very long anywhere has he? 4 points off the playoff spot , if he was in our position, probably would’ve hung drawn and quartered him . |
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 19, 2024 15:37:47 GMT
Wow. He's not lasted very long anywhere has he? 4 points off the playoff spot , if he was in our position, probably would’ve hung drawn and quartered him . No doubt in my mind that if we had axed Appleton as decisively as Sunderland axed Beale - in our case after the Cray Wanderers draw, and certainly no later than the Gillingham FA Cup defeat, we would not be in the deep shit that we are now. Beale joins Appleton and others, on the well remunerated merry go round of unsuccessful football managers. |
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Post by aaronaldo on Feb 19, 2024 16:30:51 GMT
4 points off the playoff spot , if he was in our position, probably would’ve hung drawn and quartered him . No doubt in my mind that if we had axed Appleton as decisively as Sunderland axed Beale - in our case after the Cray Wanderers draw, and certainly no later than the Gillingham FA Cup defeat, we would not be in the deep shit that we are now.Beale joins Appleton and others, on the well remunerated merry go round of unsuccessful football managers. I'm sorry, but by the Gillingham game we'd only lost two games under Appleton. Bolton and Lincoln. Don't get me wrong, we had far too many draws already. But there's no way in hell we're sacking a manager after 2 defeats and 1 in the cup. It wasn't until after that game that we fell off the cliff in terms of results and performances. |
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Post by earlpurple on Feb 19, 2024 16:37:57 GMT
We fell off the cliff when we let the 2-0 lead slip at home against Cambridge in the final moments.
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