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Post by valleyfaithful on May 9, 2023 13:30:57 GMT
Agree with you both above, think the 4231 suits who we have with Leaburn leading the line but a good signing to give Dobbo some backup alongside him should also improve us defensively and leave Fraser to play off Leaburn. Dobson and McGrandles with Fraser in front of them? McGrandles was a 'superstar' for Lincoln and he has to be worth giving a chance. I would imagine that with his wages we are going to struggle to get a fee for him, and if he is good enough it saves us signing another player. Not to mention the rave reviews he has has at Cambridge. I suppose Holden will take a good look in the Summer, but I never saw anything from MacGrandles not to mention the constant flow of injuries that would suggest to me he's capable of a play-off chasing team. With all due respect to Lincoln I think it's far more likely he was a medium size fish in a small pond. We need to be shopping at lower Championship/high League One the same way Ipswich did to have any chance of promotion next year. |
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Post by Tom1982 on May 9, 2023 13:37:51 GMT
Why try and shoe horn this lazy git into the eleven? This number 10 business is just a buzzword for someone who don’t want to (or can’t) track back. Might be good for the odd trick or flick but definitely not worth the gaping holes in the middle that he leaves. Think thats a bit harsh considering his position isn't a box to box midfielder, he was a number 10 for MK Dons and a winger for Ipswich - tracking back isn't his game, his 9 goals in a mediocre team shows he has composure in front of goal so this is more about playing to his strengths rather than shoe horning him. Don’t think anyone in league one can afford the luxury of having a player float around behind the front two (or one) all season. Maybe certain games. We will get out worked every time. |
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Post by valleyfaithful on May 9, 2023 14:08:02 GMT
Think thats a bit harsh considering his position isn't a box to box midfielder, he was a number 10 for MK Dons and a winger for Ipswich - tracking back isn't his game, his 9 goals in a mediocre team shows he has composure in front of goal so this is more about playing to his strengths rather than shoe horning him. Don’t think anyone in league one can afford the luxury of having a player float around behind the front two (or one) all season. Maybe certain games. We will get out worked every time. That's the same role Conor Chaplin played at Ipswich all year - our issue has been playing 4-3-3 leaving wide gaps once one of the wingers makes a run. In a structured 4-2-3-1 like Ipswich that number 10 role operates anywhere in the opposition's half - in theory they should be there to sweep up and help chase down the back line but that's why you'd need somewhere alongside Dobbo for when the ball comes forward. We've had our two central midfielders (Albie and Fraser) in and around the box then either having to run 30 yards to chase the game or just not bothering leaving Dobbo exposed. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on May 9, 2023 14:11:26 GMT
Why try and shoe horn this lazy git into the eleven? This number 10 business is just a buzzword for someone who don’t want to (or can’t) track back. Might be good for the odd trick or flick but definitely not worth the gaping holes in the middle that he leaves. Tom all about opinions I know, but I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this one, the guy is technically one of the best footballers in league one, we have lacked midfield tackling and tracking ability to play with him this season by having the likes of Morgan and Kilkenny in there hence one of the reasons we finished where we did. Even after a struggling season for our midfield the guy still scored 9 goals |
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Post by aaronaldo on May 9, 2023 15:22:28 GMT
Why try and shoe horn this lazy git into the eleven? This number 10 business is just a buzzword for someone who don’t want to (or can’t) track back. Might be good for the odd trick or flick but definitely not worth the gaping holes in the middle that he leaves. Tom all about opinions I know, but I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this one, the guy is technically one of the best footballers in league one, we have lacked midfield tackling and tracking ability to play with him this season by having the likes of Morgan and Kilkenny in there hence one of the reasons we finished where we did. Even after a struggling season for our midfield the guy still scored 9 goals I was disappointed in Kilkenny. I really thought he could be a good addition, but he just didn't look at it at all. |
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Post by Tom1982 on May 9, 2023 17:10:31 GMT
Why try and shoe horn this lazy git into the eleven? This number 10 business is just a buzzword for someone who don’t want to (or can’t) track back. Might be good for the odd trick or flick but definitely not worth the gaping holes in the middle that he leaves. Tom all about opinions I know, but I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this one, the guy is technically one of the best footballers in league one, we have lacked midfield tackling and tracking ability to play with him this season by having the likes of Morgan and Kilkenny in there hence one of the reasons we finished where we did. Even after a struggling season for our midfield the guy still scored 9 goals Don’t you think he goes missing though? If the game isn’t going our way he hides. He also looks knackered and frighteningly weak! He really ain’t for me. That being said, I guess I must be missing something because his numbers look decent enough. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on May 9, 2023 18:49:13 GMT
Tom all about opinions I know, but I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this one, the guy is technically one of the best footballers in league one, we have lacked midfield tackling and tracking ability to play with him this season by having the likes of Morgan and Kilkenny in there hence one of the reasons we finished where we did. Even after a struggling season for our midfield the guy still scored 9 goals Don’t you think he goes missing though? If the game isn’t going our way he hides. He also looks knackered and frighteningly weak! He really ain’t for me. That being said, I guess I must be missing something because his numbers look decent enough. Look at it from another angle Tom, would you prefer a midfield full of George Dobsons who run around throwing tackles in and tracking runs …. Where would the creativity and goal scoring opportunities come from? Fraser going missing as you say is more to do with our midfield losing control of the middle of the park…. Playing 3 in there means you need at least 2 out of the three doing the water carrying work… this is not Fraser’s skill set and he is not in the side to do this…. Dobson at times was trying to do this on his own because his water carrying partners such as Morgan and Kilkenny went missing too often As I say again with better midfield players around him you will see a Fraser scoring more than 9 goals next season |
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Post by Tom1982 on May 9, 2023 19:25:37 GMT
Don’t you think he goes missing though? If the game isn’t going our way he hides. He also looks knackered and frighteningly weak! He really ain’t for me. That being said, I guess I must be missing something because his numbers look decent enough. Look at it from another angle Tom, would you prefer a midfield full of George Dobsons who run around throwing tackles in and tracking runs …. Where would the creativity and goal scoring opportunities come from? Fraser going missing as you say is more to do with our midfield losing control of the middle of the park…. Playing 3 in there means you need at least 2 out of the three doing the water carrying work… this is not Fraser’s skill set and he is not in the side to do this…. Dobson at times was trying to do this on his own because his water carrying partners such as Morgan and Kilkenny went missing too often As I say again with better midfield players around him you will see a Fraser scoring more than 9 goals next season I still think midfielders should be able to do it all. Kinsella, Parker, Shelvey and so on. I suppose every midfield has a deeper lying player but that doesn’t absolve the more forward minded player from putting a shift in. To be fair I expect the deep lying player to be able to pick a pass and chip in with a few goals as well. It’s all part of the job. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on May 9, 2023 19:34:10 GMT
Look at it from another angle Tom, would you prefer a midfield full of George Dobsons who run around throwing tackles in and tracking runs …. Where would the creativity and goal scoring opportunities come from? Fraser going missing as you say is more to do with our midfield losing control of the middle of the park…. Playing 3 in there means you need at least 2 out of the three doing the water carrying work… this is not Fraser’s skill set and he is not in the side to do this…. Dobson at times was trying to do this on his own because his water carrying partners such as Morgan and Kilkenny went missing too often As I say again with better midfield players around him you will see a Fraser scoring more than 9 goals next season I still think midfielders should be able to do it all. Kinsella, Parker, Shelvey and so on. I suppose every midfield has a deeper lying player but that doesn’t absolve the more forward minded player from putting a shift in. To be fair I expect the deep lying player to be able to pick a pass and chip in with a few goals as well. It’s all part of the job. Ah Tom you can’t put any of our current midfield including Dobson and Fraser in the same sentence as Parker and Kinsella, our current midfield players are playing in league one for a reason |
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Post by Tom1982 on May 9, 2023 19:46:03 GMT
I still think midfielders should be able to do it all. Kinsella, Parker, Shelvey and so on. I suppose every midfield has a deeper lying player but that doesn’t absolve the more forward minded player from putting a shift in. To be fair I expect the deep lying player to be able to pick a pass and chip in with a few goals as well. It’s all part of the job. Ah Tom you can’t put any of our current midfield including Dobson and Fraser in the same sentence as Parker and Kinsella, our current midfield players are playing in league one for a reason Hahaha okay fair play. I suppose what I’m saying is i don’t like the number 10 role. I’ve not seen it work but I do see on paper how it should. Just seems like a free pass to have no responsibility during a game. |
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Post by vaangard on May 10, 2023 15:01:14 GMT
Reputedly Fraser our highest earner at £7.6k, Kirk £5.4k Payne £5.1k Lavelle £3.6k. All barely L1 standard and have to go. Mcgrandles £4.4k and A&Eke £6.4k jury out, on form and fit are worth a punt. Clare £3.6k possible as utility. CBT, DJ, Innes and Morgan at £2.5kish strengthen the squad. Like to have Hector back and Thomas was cheap. Al Ahamadi, Ekun and others coming in will help. O'Connor Anderson and Rylah not yet on radar, will be.
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Post by reamsofverse on May 10, 2023 18:21:22 GMT
Reputedly Fraser our highest earner at £7.6k, Kirk £5.4k Payne £5.1k Lavelle £3.6k. All barely L1 standard and have to go. Mcgrandles £4.4k and A&Eke £6.4k jury out, on form and fit are worth a punt. Clare £3.6k possible as utility. CBT, DJ, Innes and Morgan at £2.5kish strengthen the squad. Like to have Hector back and Thomas was cheap. Al Ahamadi, Ekun and others coming in will help. O'Connor Anderson and Rylah not yet on radar, will be. So yo would keep Aneke and pay him 6.4k but release Fraser? |
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Post by jonkool on May 10, 2023 19:24:26 GMT
Have to say we certainly demonstrated the ability to waste our wage budget on exceedingly poor players. But Fraser seems great value compared with many others mentioned by Vaangard above.
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Post by reamsofverse on May 10, 2023 20:24:35 GMT
Shouldn't stood to the dishwasher's level really but Chuks Aneke is about as much use as Nick Gray on a Charlton fans forum.   |
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Post by seriouslyred on May 11, 2023 13:31:50 GMT
I still think midfielders should be able to do it all. Kinsella, Parker, Shelvey and so on. I suppose every midfield has a deeper lying player but that doesn’t absolve the more forward minded player from putting a shift in. To be fair I expect the deep lying player to be able to pick a pass and chip in with a few goals as well. It’s all part of the job. Ah Tom you can’t put any of our current midfield including Dobson and Fraser in the same sentence as Parker and Kinsella, our current midfield players are playing in league one for a reason Perhaps not but four years ago we managed to loan both Cullen and Bielik. We are never going to pay Chapionship type contacts here in League One so we need to rely upon the Academy and loans for much of the improvement required. With decent sports science, coaching and management we should see a marked improvement in our younger players next time. Having said that Morgan has not pushed on and Payne was never going to add that much. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on May 11, 2023 15:23:14 GMT
Ah Tom you can’t put any of our current midfield including Dobson and Fraser in the same sentence as Parker and Kinsella, our current midfield players are playing in league one for a reason Perhaps not but four years ago we managed to loan both Cullen and Bielik. We are never going to pay Chapionship type contacts here in League One so we need to rely upon the Academy and loans for much of the improvement required. With decent sports science, coaching and management we should see a marked improvement in our younger players next time. Having said that Morgan has not pushed on and Payne was never going to add that much. SR the young players like Henry and Elewere should be going out on loan and getting regular first team football, this will improve them and not by sitting on our bench… getting 15 mins here and there. As for Morgan he is league two standard and it is what it is …. |
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Post by jonkool on May 11, 2023 15:39:24 GMT
Perhaps not but four years ago we managed to loan both Cullen and Bielik. We are never going to pay Chapionship type contacts here in League One so we need to rely upon the Academy and loans for much of the improvement required. With decent sports science, coaching and management we should see a marked improvement in our younger players next time. Having said that Morgan has not pushed on and Payne was never going to add that much. SR the young players like Henry and Elewere should be going out on loan and getting regular first team football, this will improve them and not by sitting on our bench… getting 15 mins here and there. As for Morgan he is league two standard and it is what it is …. Sorry … National League South more like! |
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Post by aucklandaddick on May 11, 2023 15:55:05 GMT
SR the young players like Henry and Elewere should be going out on loan and getting regular first team football, this will improve them and not by sitting on our bench… getting 15 mins here and there. As for Morgan he is league two standard and it is what it is …. Sorry … National League South more like! I was being a bit generous JK…😁.. I don’t see the point of him signing a new contract to be a squad player as Holden will no doubt be looking to strengthen in this area so it would be better for him to be playing regular football somewhere else…. I just don’t think he is league one standard, he goes missing far too often and we lose control of the middle of the park when he does |
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Post by jonkool on May 11, 2023 17:12:27 GMT
He is a subuteo player … he’s always looking for the the 30 yard ‘hero’ crossfield diagonal floaty pass which y usually ends up in row F of G Block when attacking the North Stand - it drives me nuts. He also is a very poor tackler and doesn’t do enough to close down the space when out of possession.
This season he has marginally improved but is still light years away from being tier 3 quality.
In summary his quality and attitude was best summed up during a game earlier in the season when his shot managed to hit the second ‘E’ in Jimmy Seed at roof level of the great man’s stand 🥴
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Post by seriouslyred on May 11, 2023 17:29:25 GMT
He is a subuteo player … he’s always looking for the the 30 yard ‘hero’ crossfield diagonal floaty pass which y usually ends up in row F of G Block when attacking the North Stand - it drives me nuts. He also is a very poor tackler and doesn’t do enough to close down the space when out of possession. This season he has marginally improved but is still light years away from being tier 3 quality. In summary his quality and attitude was best summed up during a game earlier in the season when his shot managed to hit the second ‘E’ in Jimmy Seed at roof level of the great man’s stand 🥴 He may have marginally improved and he might have a future in League One? The point is that our midfield is weak overall and we absolutely need to replace out of contract players with those who are good enough to help a push for the top six. That's why we need the right SMT in place and the right budgets to recruit six or seven quality players over the summer. There's no need to disrespect those who have worn our shirt, just a simple statement that we require improvement across the board. Ironically it's not the overall budgets that have been at fault, not since we were relegated in the last 15 minutes some three years back. No, the SMT recruitment, sports science, coaching and management have all been defective. But the players we have under contract already plus seven decent additions and a new SMT should be enough to see us to 77-80 points. |
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Post by jonkool on May 11, 2023 20:12:39 GMT
He is a subuteo player … he’s always looking for the the 30 yard ‘hero’ crossfield diagonal floaty pass which y usually ends up in row F of G Block when attacking the North Stand - it drives me nuts. He also is a very poor tackler and doesn’t do enough to close down the space when out of possession. This season he has marginally improved but is still light years away from being tier 3 quality. In summary his quality and attitude was best summed up during a game earlier in the season when his shot managed to hit the second ‘E’ in Jimmy Seed at roof level of the great man’s stand 🥴 He may have marginally improved and he might have a future in League One? The point is that our midfield is weak overall and we absolutely need to replace out of contract players with those who are good enough to help a push for the top six. That's why we need the right SMT in place and the right budgets to recruit six or seven quality players over the summer. There's no need to disrespect those who have worn our shirt, just a simple statement that we require improvement across the board. Ironically it's not the overall budgets that have been at fault, not since we were relegated in the last 15 minutes some three years back. No, the SMT recruitment, sports science, coaching and management have all been defective. But the players we have under contract already plus seven decent additions and a new SMT should be enough to see us to 77-80 points. Sorry Red but I feel very strongly that in certain cases I have a need to disrespect those who disrespect the guidance they receive from their managers/coaches/betters! I’m generally mild mannered but not when it comes to this particular individual. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on May 11, 2023 20:20:02 GMT
He is a subuteo player … he’s always looking for the the 30 yard ‘hero’ crossfield diagonal floaty pass which y usually ends up in row F of G Block when attacking the North Stand - it drives me nuts. He also is a very poor tackler and doesn’t do enough to close down the space when out of possession. This season he has marginally improved but is still light years away from being tier 3 quality. In summary his quality and attitude was best summed up during a game earlier in the season when his shot managed to hit the second ‘E’ in Jimmy Seed at roof level of the great man’s stand 🥴 He may have marginally improved and he might have a future in League One? The point is that our midfield is weak overall and we absolutely need to replace out of contract players with those who are good enough to help a push for the top six. That's why we need the right SMT in place and the right budgets to recruit six or seven quality players over the summer. There's no need to disrespect those who have worn our shirt, just a simple statement that we require improvement across the board. Ironically it's not the overall budgets that have been at fault, not since we were relegated in the last 15 minutes some three years back. No, the SMT recruitment, sports science, coaching and management have all been defective. But the players we have under contract already plus seven decent additions and a new SMT should be enough to see us to 77-80 points. Giving my opinion on a player who IMO don’t think is good enough to play at this level is not disrespecting a player wearing our shirt …….this is is professional football club not a Sunday league junior side |
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Post by seriouslyred on May 11, 2023 22:29:22 GMT
He may have marginally improved and he might have a future in League One? The point is that our midfield is weak overall and we absolutely need to replace out of contract players with those who are good enough to help a push for the top six. That's why we need the right SMT in place and the right budgets to recruit six or seven quality players over the summer. There's no need to disrespect those who have worn our shirt, just a simple statement that we require improvement across the board. Ironically it's not the overall budgets that have been at fault, not since we were relegated in the last 15 minutes some three years back. No, the SMT recruitment, sports science, coaching and management have all been defective. But the players we have under contract already plus seven decent additions and a new SMT should be enough to see us to 77-80 points. Sorry Red but I feel very strongly that in certain cases I have a need to disrespect those who disrespect the guidance they receive from their managers/coaches/betters! I’m generally mild mannered but not when it comes to this particular individual. Some individuals kick on in any walk of life whereas others simply don't. In the bigger picture surely the question is why are we even debating an extension for a player who has had all season to develop / add to the team performance, but failed? IMHO it's a lack of ambition and technical know how at the club - normally there's very little controversy around the retained list since the fans, board and management have all watched the same games. It's where we are as a club and ideally a takeover will set us free from these limitations. |
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Post by Mundell on May 12, 2023 11:01:26 GMT
He is a subuteo player … he’s always looking for the the 30 yard ‘hero’ crossfield diagonal floaty pass which y usually ends up in row F of G Block when attacking the North Stand - it drives me nuts. He also is a very poor tackler and doesn’t do enough to close down the space when out of possession. This season he has marginally improved but is still light years away from being tier 3 quality. In summary his quality and attitude was best summed up during a game earlier in the season when his shot managed to hit the second ‘E’ in Jimmy Seed at roof level of the great man’s stand 🥴 No, the SMT recruitment, sports science, coaching and management have all been defective. But the players we have under contract already plus seven decent additions and a new SMT should be enough to see us to 77-80 points. The problem is that I suspect there are at least a dozens teams who could say that. Probably more. |
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Post by newstreethill on May 12, 2023 17:12:05 GMT
Think thats a bit harsh considering his position isn't a box to box midfielder, he was a number 10 for MK Dons and a winger for Ipswich - tracking back isn't his game, his 9 goals in a mediocre team shows he has composure in front of goal so this is more about playing to his strengths rather than shoe horning him. Don’t think anyone in league one can afford the luxury of having a player float around behind the front two (or one) all season. Maybe certain games. We will get out worked every time. Spot on. He was bought as a key creative player but has become a bit of a lightweight, certainly defensively. If we want promotion we need better, although he’d be fine off the bench imho. |
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Post by vaangard on May 13, 2023 16:54:29 GMT
I'm not bigging up Aneke given his injury problems, but fit, he is a top L1 striker, not on huge strikers wages. Fraser is our highest paid player, on high salary for third tier, has less tackles in a match than goals in a season.
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Post by garrynelson on May 13, 2023 17:29:30 GMT
I'm not bigging up Aneke given his injury problems, but fit, he is a top L1 striker, not on huge strikers wages. Fraser is our highest paid player, on high salary for third tier, has less tackles in a match than goals in a season. I actually want my most attack minded midfielder to have more goals in a season than tackles in a match. Not sure how that’s seen as a negative? |
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Post by tonaddick on May 13, 2023 17:38:38 GMT
I'm not bigging up Aneke given his injury problems, but fit, he is a top L1 striker, not on huge strikers wages. Fraser is our highest paid player, on high salary for third tier, has less tackles in a match than goals in a season. I actually want my most attack minded midfielder to have more goals in a season than tackles in a match. Not sure how that’s seen as a negative? Always reminds me of the great interview with Xabi Alonso, when he got tore into a younger midfielder at Liverpool who had said that his biggest attribute was tackling. Alonso's view was that tackling was a last result and only happened because you'd messed up. Fraser should be judged on goals, assists and interceptions; not on his tackling stats. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on May 14, 2023 8:45:22 GMT
I actually want my most attack minded midfielder to have more goals in a season than tackles in a match. Not sure how that’s seen as a negative? Always reminds me of the great interview with Xabi Alonso, when he got tore into a younger midfielder at Liverpool who had said that his biggest attribute was tackling. Alonso's view was that tackling was a last result and only happened because you'd messed up. Fraser should be judged on goals, assists and interceptions; not on his tackling Spot on fella 👍 |
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Post by vaangard on May 14, 2023 23:42:02 GMT
I am reminded of a Charlton midfield legend who also got panned for not tackling. Paul Mortimer.
However Morts always stood up to the player with the ball and forced a commitment which often led to a misplaced pass or the above interceptions.
When has Fraser ever done similar? He can't intercept or tackle because he is hiding somewhere.
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