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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 8, 2017 11:43:02 GMT
There was two sides therufus but when you constantly slag off the CEO, the owner and the manager then help form a women's protest group despite those who launched it already being part of CARD then you are asking for trouble and in most cases deserve what you get.
For a POTY event to happen you need to have the players present, the same players who are contracted to the club, the same club that Huelin and co. aim abuse at on a daily basis.
On that score she should be nowhere near it along with any other leading Protest protagonists.
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Post by therufus on Mar 8, 2017 11:49:58 GMT
There was two sides therufus but when you constantly slag off the CEO, the owner and the manager then help form a women's protest group despite those who launched it already being part of CARD then you are asking for trouble and in most cases deserve what you get. For a POTY event to happen you need to have the players present, the same players who are contracted to the club, the same club that Huelin and co. aim abuse at on a daily basis. On that score she should be nowhere near it along with any other leading Protest protagonists. I agree with you reamsofverse, they can't be surprised this has happened, especially with the formation of WAR, which was provocative and not really necessary in my opinion. Without WAR, the position of the protesters would be stronger as I believe the supporter in question ran it then and ran it well, despite feeling the same way about the club's ownership then as they do now. My 2 sides bit was more general than this one event, to leeds' more general point, football is tribal, the club has not been run well so as much as supporters need to accept the owners can do what they want, the owners can't expect football fans to shut up and take it.
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Post by leedsaddick on Mar 8, 2017 12:26:59 GMT
You know what strikes me about this and it links to what KR talks culture in the Club.... My perception is that the old guard employees, who helped re build the club when we moved back to the Valley, played a key role in the background to the sucesfull premiership years are now having great difficulty in adjusting to the new football world. By new football world, the current ownership, whose approach and style is more Corporate, together with the way that football finances itself. My own work background is Business and Organisational Change and you see the same behaviour during mergers and takeovers... for me this episode highlights this.... I could be wrong, but this is my perception Definitely think that's true and well noted, however from the other side the new owners should have recognised that football has a unique footprint, especially in England. There are two sides to this all the way through. The point you make on new owners is a great one. Firstly, they have shown a lack experience in understanding how different the UK Football structure is and how competitive it is to the rest of Europe, secondly and this is building on your comment of a unique footprint, they've completely underestimated the whole history of CAFC and where it is today. I'll expand on this. In my work life, I've seen so many hot shot Americans come over to the UK and completely antagonised local business units by rubbishing accomplishments. Equally, I've seen arrogant hotshots Brits from FTSE100 companies behave the same way. Reading between the lines and speculating, and agreeing with your point, I think the new owners may have fallen into this trap. Part of the challenge they have is to change perception in a polarised environment. It can be done, but it's a long haul.... great shout though!
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Post by webbo on Mar 8, 2017 12:39:17 GMT
You know what strikes me about this and it links to what KR talks culture in the Club.... My perception is that the old guard employees, who helped re build the club when we moved back to the Valley, played a key role in the background to the sucesfull premiership years are now having great difficulty in adjusting to the new football world. By new football world, the current ownership, whose approach and style is more Corporate, together with the way that football finances itself. My own work background is Business and Organisational Change and you see the same behaviour during mergers and takeovers... for me this episode highlights this.... I could be wrong, but this is my perception I certainly think you're right about older supporters like me finding new stuff tricky to assimilate. We don't always get it, like the JoJo Bow, or scouting players over the internet. However being older does not mean I am not persuadable, or stop me from expressing my concerns and incredulity. However you mention a new football world. One thing that seems to have been consistent through all the ages is that football is supposed to be a sport, and the assumption is that all teams are interested in winning their matches. Two things actually. Our particular new football world makes me doubt that Roland Duchatelet sees football as a sport as I understand it, and that he wants his team's to win. Corporate or not, older fan or not, this new football world at Charlton is not the future surely? Decline in results and an empty stadium? Not wanting to accept that is not about being old school, but about fear for the future of Charlton Athletic as a sporting institution.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 13:50:59 GMT
You know what strikes me about this and it links to what KR talks culture in the Club.... My perception is that the old guard employees, who helped re build the club when we moved back to the Valley, played a key role in the background to the sucesfull premiership years are now having great difficulty in adjusting to the new football world. By new football world, the current ownership, whose approach and style is more Corporate, together with the way that football finances itself. My own work background is Business and Organisational Change and you see the same behaviour during mergers and takeovers... for me this episode highlights this.... I could be wrong, but this is my perception RM said pretty much the same thing - the days of a local fan (like him) being able to afford to bail the club out are over.
It takes big (invariably corporate) money, even at our level.
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Post by leedsaddick on Mar 8, 2017 14:00:01 GMT
You know what strikes me about this and it links to what KR talks culture in the Club.... My perception is that the old guard employees, who helped re build the club when we moved back to the Valley, played a key role in the background to the sucesfull premiership years are now having great difficulty in adjusting to the new football world. By new football world, the current ownership, whose approach and style is more Corporate, together with the way that football finances itself. My own work background is Business and Organisational Change and you see the same behaviour during mergers and takeovers... for me this episode highlights this.... I could be wrong, but this is my perception I certainly think you're right about older supporters like me finding new stuff tricky to assimilate. We don't always get it, like the JoJo Bow, or scouting players over the internet. However being older does not mean I am not persuadable, or stop me from expressing my concerns and incredulity. However you mention a new football world. One thing that seems to have been consistent through all the ages is that football is supposed to be a sport, and the assumption is that all teams are interested in winning their matches. Two things actually. Our particular new football world makes me doubt that Roland Duchatelet sees football as a sport as I understand it, and that he wants his team's to win. Corporate or not, older fan or not, this new football world at Charlton is not the future surely? Decline in results and an empty stadium? Not wanting to accept that is not about being old school, but about fear for the future of Charlton Athletic as a sporting institution. Some great points Webbo…. Apologies if I’ve come across as a new age fascist. I’ve been hooked Charlton since the late 60’s and have seen the ebb and flow of this great Club of ours since then The new football world for me is now dominated by money in particular the amount of money in the Premiership. As you rightly point out, football is meant to be a sport, but where huge amounts of cash are involved, sport plays second fiddle to profit and/or the glamour of success. This for me, is the world that football now operates in and it can’t go back to the pre Sky Days. I also think that your observation of RD’s desire to see a winning team is spot on too. To get us into the Championship with a sensible transfer budget, is less expensive, than trying to get and stay in the Premiership. I also believe that talent spotting a la Driesen using the internet, is not the way forward either. You need a scouting network and go and watch someone play. If we talk about the context I do believe that the way that the Club engages with its fan base is key. Again, just to bore you with my working life, all FTSE service related Companies such as O2 or Virgin have a customer centric approach. In English this means putting the Customer at the centre of everything. Through the in experience of the current management team, I don’t think they’ve done this particularly well and have alienated a lot of people. (It also doesn’t help when certain section of Charlton’s fan base alienate themselves). Like most naïve Corporate Operators, they’ve come in, completely ignored, history and culture and then wonder why everyone’s pissed off! If they don’t change, then you’re right, they’ll be no club left…. But that also means that those who work in the Club and supporters also have think about possibly changing….. It’s easier said than done
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 9, 2017 23:50:09 GMT
Davo55 9:59PM Apart from being cruel, petty and vindictive by Meire this is also breathtakingly stupid. There is no-one she could attack that would be more certain to galvanise all decent supporters into opposing her plans. She messes with Fanny, she messes with me, and hundreds more. Whatever way this goes, we are on Fanny's side. Boycott, picket. alternative event, whatever. It will blow the Meire controlled official event completely out of the water. Another threat, this time from the 4ft 6" short arsed CARD leader!!! What a total moron!. Looking forward to the announcement confirming that Huelin is surplus just as Davies and his CARD pipe dream are.
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Post by wellingaddick on Mar 10, 2017 0:25:30 GMT
Davo55 9:59PM Apart from being cruel, petty and vindictive by Meire this is also breathtakingly stupid. There is no-one she could attack that would be more certain to galvanise all decent supporters into opposing her plans. She messes with Fanny, she messes with me, and hundreds more. Whatever way this goes, we are on Fanny's side. Boycott, picket. alternative event, whatever. It will blow the Meire controlled official event completely out of the water. Another threat, this time from the 4ft 6" short arsed CARD leader!!! What a total moron!. Looking forward to the announcement confirming that Huelin is surplus just as Davies and his CARD pipe dream are. An 'Alternative Event'? Just how will he propose to get contracted players to go along to that!
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Post by webbo on Mar 10, 2017 10:33:50 GMT
Davo55 9:59PM Apart from being cruel, petty and vindictive by Meire this is also breathtakingly stupid. There is no-one she could attack that would be more certain to galvanise all decent supporters into opposing her plans. She messes with Fanny, she messes with me, and hundreds more. Whatever way this goes, we are on Fanny's side. Boycott, picket. alternative event, whatever. It will blow the Meire controlled official event completely out of the water. Another threat, this time from the 4ft 6" short arsed CARD leader!!! What a total moron!. Looking forward to the announcement confirming that Huelin is surplus just as Davies and his CARD pipe dream are. An 'Alternative Event'? Just how will he propose to get contracted players to go along to that! They can be invited, and if they don't go they don't go. Surely the club are approaching this in the wrong way in trying to take over and impose conditions if that is what they are doing? I can't see the wisdom of trying to make the changes they propose without adequate consultation, and they risk doing it by themselves and making the same pigs ear of it as that family day at the start of Bob Peeters reign. They might be able to identify one person they object to, but they can't vet everybody. The club seem foolish to me to expend energy on this where they are supposed to be reconciling with supporters. This malarkey risks driving yet another wedge. In looking from the clubs point of view they seem to be saying to Jean and other supporters 'you organise it according to our instructions, and then stay away'. As a strategy the club are stupid in this in my view.
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Post by wellingaddick on Mar 10, 2017 12:16:33 GMT
An 'Alternative Event'? Just how will he propose to get contracted players to go along to that! They can be invited, and if they don't go they don't go. Surely the club are approaching this in the wrong way in trying to take over and impose conditions if that is what they are doing? I can't see the wisdom of trying to make the changes they propose without adequate consultation, and they risk doing it by themselves and making the same pigs ear of it as that family day at the start of Bob Peeters reign. They might be able to identify one person they object to, but they can't vet everybody. The club seem foolish to me to expend energy on this where they are supposed to be reconciling with supporters. This malarkey risks driving yet another wedge. In looking from the clubs point of view they seem to be saying to Jean and other supporters 'you organise it according to our instructions, and then stay away'. As a strategy the club are stupid in this in my view. My point in my post being, what sort of an alternative event will it be, if the players are not there for whatever reason... a damp squib comes to mind!
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Post by webbo on Mar 10, 2017 12:33:45 GMT
They can be invited, and if they don't go they don't go. Surely the club are approaching this in the wrong way in trying to take over and impose conditions if that is what they are doing? I can't see the wisdom of trying to make the changes they propose without adequate consultation, and they risk doing it by themselves and making the same pigs ear of it as that family day at the start of Bob Peeters reign. They might be able to identify one person they object to, but they can't vet everybody. The club seem foolish to me to expend energy on this where they are supposed to be reconciling with supporters. This malarkey risks driving yet another wedge. In looking from the clubs point of view they seem to be saying to Jean and other supporters 'you organise it according to our instructions, and then stay away'. As a strategy the club are stupid in this in my view. My point in my post being, what sort of an alternative event will it be, if the players are not there for whatever reason... a damp squib comes to mind! Well that depends on what kind of squib you expect in the first place. If the now traditional decision about who the supporters have voted as POTY is declared then the squib is all right by me even if there are no players, no very questionable food at eye watering prices, and no interference in the fan run event. The club is absolutely free to organise what they want independent of any supporter involvement if they so choose. The POTY however is credible precisely because the choice is that of the general fan and is not manipulated in some way, and the players if they're at all interested, find out what the broad body of fans think. Players can be invited, and if they choose not to attend then that is their decision.
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Post by weststandfruitloop on Mar 11, 2017 23:40:23 GMT
I see on CL that the POTY has been cancelled. I also see that the only reason the club didn't want Fannypack involved is she accidentally cc-ed an email about POTY that said one of the club's employees involved in it was shit to the club employee themself! A laughable example of how incompetent the whole protest posse are. No offence to Fannypack (I understand she's in her 70s or 80s) but maybe people that old shouldn't be using email in such sensitive circumstances. The Dad's Army nature of the CARD crew strikes again!
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Post by wellingaddick on Mar 11, 2017 23:47:48 GMT
Probably for the best that it has been cancelled, seems these days that controversy follows with anything associated with Charlton.
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Post by 19addickted96 on Mar 12, 2017 0:08:41 GMT
I see on CL that the POTY has been cancelled. I also see that the only reason the club didn't want Fannypack involved is she accidentally cc-ed an email about POTY that said one of the club's employees involved in it was shit to the club employee themself! A laughable example of how incompetent the whole protest posse are. No offence to Fannypack (I understand she's in her 70s or 80s) but maybe people that old shouldn't be using email in such sensitive circumstances. The Dad's Army nature of the CARD crew strikes again! Very harsh, considering all the changed the club were try to impose! Only the club wanted these changes, with any vote for said changes being voted in favour of the fans organisation!
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Post by weststandfruitloop on Mar 12, 2017 0:32:17 GMT
I see on CL that the POTY has been cancelled. I also see that the only reason the club didn't want Fannypack involved is she accidentally cc-ed an email about POTY that said one of the club's employees involved in it was shit to the club employee themself! A laughable example of how incompetent the whole protest posse are. No offence to Fannypack (I understand she's in her 70s or 80s) but maybe people that old shouldn't be using email in such sensitive circumstances. The Dad's Army nature of the CARD crew strikes again! Very harsh, considering all the changed the club were try to impose! Only the club wanted these changes, with any vote for said changes being voted in favour of the fans organisation! What is harsh? The guy on CL posting about this admits that Fannypack emailed abuse at one of the people organising the event on the club's side (by accident) and that this was always the issue. This information was only revealed tonight, yet the whole Jean Of Arc thing around Fannypack has been allowed to build for a week or two now. At no stage until tonight did they (the POTY/CARDers) even mention that Fannypack had directly emailed abuse at a club employee she was supposed to be working with. Had that been made clear from the outset, this whole Saint Jean thing would never have developed in the first place. She ****ed up (how would you feel if someone from another company you were working with on a project accidentally cc-ed you into an email where they're calling you a **** or whatever). A major embarrassment for Fannypack and the CARD crew, imho.
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Post by awoogatron on Mar 12, 2017 9:14:27 GMT
Very harsh, considering all the changed the club were try to impose! Only the club wanted these changes, with any vote for said changes being voted in favour of the fans organisation! What is harsh? The guy on CL posting about this admits that Fannypack emailed abuse at one of the people organising the event on the club's side (by accident) and that this was always the issue. This information was only revealed tonight, yet the whole Jean Of Arc thing around Fannypack has been allowed to build for a week or two now. At no stage until tonight did they (the POTY/CARDers) even mention that Fannypack had directly emailed abuse at a club employee she was supposed to be working with. Had that been made clear from the outset, this whole Saint Jean thing would never have developed in the first place. She ****ed up (how would you feel if someone from another company you were working with on a project accidentally cc-ed you into an email where they're calling you a **** or whatever). A major embarrassment for Fannypack and the CARD crew, imho. Surprising lack of detail about the nature of Fanny's message. What could they be trying to hide I wonder
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Post by bexleyboy on Mar 12, 2017 9:16:45 GMT
Well CL are loving this once again KM getting abuse but once again there to stupid to relise it was one of there own that has caused it .... really are a brainless bunch of idiots
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Post by webbo on Mar 12, 2017 9:20:43 GMT
It says a message was forwarded by Jean, not composed by her.
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Post by 19addickted96 on Mar 12, 2017 9:32:47 GMT
Very harsh, considering all the changed the club were try to impose! Only the club wanted these changes, with any vote for said changes being voted in favour of the fans organisation! What is harsh? The guy on CL posting about this admits that Fannypack emailed abuse at one of the people organising the event on the club's side (by accident) and that this was always the issue. This information was only revealed tonight, yet the whole Jean Of Arc thing around Fannypack has been allowed to build for a week or two now. At no stage until tonight did they (the POTY/CARDers) even mention that Fannypack had directly emailed abuse at a club employee she was supposed to be working with. Had that been made clear from the outset, this whole Saint Jean thing would never have developed in the first place. She ****ed up (how would you feel if someone from another company you were working with on a project accidentally cc-ed you into an email where they're calling you a **** or whatever). A major embarrassment for Fannypack and the CARD crew, imho. The harsh part was aimed at your personal remarks towards jean! And I'm lead to believe that the email was about the organising/event planning as opposed to being aimed at one person! The whole email thing had already been put on CL somewhere after it had got 'leaked' from the club/staff working on it.... so hasn't been building up for two weeks as you suggest! POTY has nothing to do with CARD so not sure why you're obsessed with bringing that onto the story, but as the club were hell bent on dictating how an event for the fans by the fans was run then maybe it's right to cancel!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 9:43:27 GMT
...POTY has nothing to do with CARD so not sure why you're obsessed with bringing that onto the story, but as the club were hell bent on dictating how an event for the fans by the fans was run then maybe it's right to cancel! Another PR triumph for our CEO, and another step forwards in the improvement of communication between the Club and its fans. Elevates the expression 'charm offensive' to a whole new level.
It is clear the Club does not want a mutually beneficial partnership or a trusting relationship with supporters. It wants to control them. What it cannot control, it regards as a threat. Because it will not extend trust, it will never be trusted in return.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 12, 2017 10:09:08 GMT
I see on CL that the POTY has been cancelled. I also see that the only reason the club didn't want Fannypack involved is she accidentally cc-ed an email about POTY that said one of the club's employees involved in it was shit to the club employee themself! A laughable example of how incompetent the whole protest posse are. No offence to Fannypack (I understand she's in her 70s or 80s) but maybe people that old shouldn't be using email in such sensitive circumstances. The Dad's Army nature of the CARD crew strikes again! Don't care how old she is nobody mentions that when she's shooting her mouth off mate. I knew about the email last week and it once again proves how inept the 'core actors' and 'vinegar pissers' are.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 10:21:25 GMT
I see on CL that the POTY has been cancelled. I also see that the only reason the club didn't want Fannypack involved is she accidentally cc-ed an email about POTY that said one of the club's employees involved in it was shit to the club employee themself! A laughable example of how incompetent the whole protest posse are. No offence to Fannypack (I understand she's in her 70s or 80s) but maybe people that old shouldn't be using email in such sensitive circumstances. The Dad's Army nature of the CARD crew strikes again! Don't care how old she is nobody mentions that when she's shooting her mouth off mate. I knew about the email last week and it once again proves how inept the 'core actors' and 'vinegar pissers' are. Staggering lack of self-awareness that Jean Huelin seems to think that she can abuse club staff and state publicly that she wants to "test" the owner's "dickey-ticker" - and still organise the Player of the Year event. The consequences of such rash and hot-headed statements are inevitable and entirely of her own making. The excuses are that she she sent the abusive e-mail "accidentally" and her hope that the protestors would give the owner a heart-attack was "a joke". Sorry but that really doesn't wash. The club had no option but to declare her persona non grata after she had proved she is not a fit and proper person to be permitted to liaise with the club's playing staff on this event.
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stonemuse
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Post by stonemuse on Mar 12, 2017 12:09:29 GMT
...POTY has nothing to do with CARD so not sure why you're obsessed with bringing that onto the story, but as the club were hell bent on dictating how an event for the fans by the fans was run then maybe it's right to cancel! Another PR triumph for our CEO, and another step forwards in the improvement of communication between the Club and its fans. Elevates the expression 'charm offensive' to a whole new level.
It is clear the Club does not want a mutually beneficial partnership or a trusting relationship with supporters. It wants to control them. What it cannot control, it regards as a threat. Because it will not extend trust, it will never be trusted in return. This is the Roland way. As we have been told by the SMT many times, this is Roland's club and he can do what he wants. An autocrat of the first order ... but hopefully not for much longer.
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Post by Cindy Blue on Mar 12, 2017 12:10:48 GMT
Paul I agree totally with your last paragraph and this is again an own goal by Kat. She has played in to CARDs hands and given them another propaganda opportunity. Using Jean Heulin to be the sacrificial martyr to the cause.
However, I fully understand why Kat does not want Jean involved, given her comments and constant sniping.
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Post by MurciaAl on Mar 12, 2017 12:38:41 GMT
CANCELLED because of a Fanny that expels a lot of hot air!, you couldn't make it up!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 13:09:19 GMT
"Instructions came that the club would no longer accept Fanny as one of the organisers as a result of an email that she forwarded to a member of the club staff in error and which was less than complimentary about their efforts."
So this all came about because JH fucked up. Brilliant. What a hero.
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Post by MurciaAl on Mar 12, 2017 13:49:40 GMT
"Instructions came that the club would no longer accept Fanny as one of the organisers as a result of an email that she forwarded to a member of the club staff in error and which was less than complimentary about their efforts." So this all came about because JH fucked up. Brilliant. What a hero. Karma springs to mind!
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 12, 2017 13:54:30 GMT
No staged award number 2 for the dippy Fanackapan this year then having had one bought for her last season which they named, Lifetime Achievement Award. There wasn't even a vote.
Shame it's cancelled this year, Everitt was nailed on to pick up the Services to CARD award in recognition of his tireless contribution in achieving absolutely nothing!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 15:11:16 GMT
"Having sat around the table with Jean she hardly had any input into the running of the event and always came over as "Holier than thou""
I don't know who Paul / @wingwizard is but this comment seemed to pass most people by at the time.
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Post by canaddick on Mar 12, 2017 16:55:02 GMT
Seems to me that there's a difference between forwarding an email with comments criticising the club and creating an email abusing them.
I understand this event is owned by the fans, but obviously is dependent on cooperation never previously withheld or subject to such objectionable conditions.
I hear that KM and this lady had a run in a couple of years ago when the CEO objected to Rick Everitt speaking about the Valley Party. It was petty then - KM was an invitee at someone else's event - and it's even more petty now.
The Player of the Year event should, in my opinion, be a given every year. It's a formal event for adults, organised by fans and supported by the club in partnership. I don't see any reason why that should change, especially as the CEO has made such loud noises about building bridges with the fans.
Regretfully this situation reeks of building bridges only with those fans who will just go along with what she wants. Thats incredibly immature and hardly behaviour suitable to someone of her seniority,let alone in the best interests of th club.
Let's be honest, it reveals the whole series of fans meetings as a PR exercise on behalf of a failing CEO desperate to get her career back on track, to be seen to be doing the right things despite investing precisely nothing emotionally in them.
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