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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 5, 2017 20:36:02 GMT
Not sure if anybody noticed this in the recent minutes of the fans forum meeting but in them contained a proposal by the club to involve them in the arranging of this season's POTY dinner. In previous years as we know the event has been arranged by supporters however in the recent FF meeting Tom Rubashow advised that the club felt that changes were needed that would make the event more accessible, affordable and family-friendly. Katrien Meire commented that the club are not looking to take over the event but want to help improve it. Katrien noted that the suggestion of an afternoon event was up for discussion and at this stage is was just a proposal, and the club’s preference to attract more children to the event. Katrien confirmed that the POTY dinner could not take place on the originally-proposed date of April 23rd adding that the women’s team are playing on April 23rd and the club would like them to be involved in the proposed plans, so the original date should not have been agreed. Katrien advised that under the new plans, Valley Express coaches could be arranged for after the event if there is a demand for this. She noted that with regards to raffle and auction prizes, the club could assist with prizes for these which would help to generate additional funds for the Fans Forum and the Charlton Athletic Museum. Fans forum member Ian Wallis raised concerns about the proposals and stressed that the POTY dinner is a supporters’ event and not a club event, and it is the supporters who own the POTY trophy. Wallis said he feels that the club are trying to take over the event and turn it into something different, and that a similar discussion was held last season. He noted that a lot of the suggestions/improvements the club want to make could be accommodated, but not the actual format of the event. Wallis pointed out that the current format is an evening event and primarily an adult-only event adding that the event has been a success every year he has organised it, even in difficult seasons and suggested that a less formal event could work at a different time, i.e. Christmas. Wallis stressed that he wants it to remain a formal evening event advising that in anticipation, he contacted other members of the Fans Forum and received an overwhelming response that it should stay the same. Wallis proposed a motion, worded: ‘I deplore the actions of the club in transforming the POTY dinner in favour of their own event and I urge them to reconsider and allow this much loved event to continue as it is.’ Fellow fans forum member Christine Lawrie seconded this motion. Community & Supporter Development Officer at Charlton Athletic, Jack O'Sullivan, asked for clarification on how the club’s idea was proposed to other members of the Fans Forum by Ian Wallis in advance of the meeting, as the original motion included the word ‘banning’ instead of ‘transforming’, which is not what the club ever planned to do. Tony Farrell of the fans forum advised that he had discussed a change to the event with members of CADSA and that the majority wanted it to remain as it is, however accepted that the club’s proposals were not put forward to them at the time. Ian Wallis proposed a vote over the changes and it was voted 8-1 in favour of keeping the event as it has been previously. Richard Wiseman of The Supporters Trust noted that, apart from the timing, the proposed changes are relatively minor but that the timing is the most important issue. Jack O'Sullivan stressed the club’s thinking behind the changes – making it more affordable, accessible and inclusive. Personally I think it would be a very good idea to open it up to a wider audience on a less formal basis so that more people could attend including kids. The Powerpoint presentation put forward by the club is below, with the 2016 format and 2017 proposals at the bottom. What do you think? Action: Club to discuss internally the way they would like to proceed and will discuss in further detail with IW and other supporters group representatives. www.cafc.co.uk/documents/potyd-proposal-for-discussion83-3589748.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 20:44:29 GMT
I would love to go but can't afford too why should it only be adult only kids are supporters too.Very selfish IMO
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 5, 2017 20:49:21 GMT
It's always been a adults only event but the club are keen to help and have proposed a new format which would open it up to more people including children.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 20:53:48 GMT
It's always been a adults only event but the club are keen to help and have proposed a new format which would open it up to more people including children. And so it should be Paul and at affordable price
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 20:54:23 GMT
Open to children in mean
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 21:02:08 GMT
Why not have the Club put forward a detailed proposal of how they would like the POTY event to run, then have the Fans Forum spell out why they believe it should remain the way it is.
Then the two proposals could be voted on by all Charlton Athletic supporters (or as many as possible depending on the format of the vote), perhaps a voting slip given out to home fans attending a certain match at the Valley, a short while after the proposals have been made public to give fans time to consider.
Simple democracy among the supporters could then decide which is the more popular option.
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Post by 19addickted96 on Mar 5, 2017 21:03:21 GMT
It's always been a adults only event but the club are keen to help and have proposed a new format which would open it up to more people including children. And so it should be Paul and at affordable price If I remember correctly, it has always been priced Fairly and relatively cheaply however the club last year (and presumably this) have hiked the cost up as they demand that their in house caterers (think it's the same company who do the kiosks etc) do the food which is at obviously a higher price - this has then meant the fans who organise the POTY have raised the price per supporter in order to cover the cost , with the food being questionably poor last year!
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Post by webbo on Mar 5, 2017 21:13:33 GMT
As far as I know the trophy is owned by the fans and it is a fans event not a club event.
if there can be collaboration that is good, but collaboration is not about people at the club taking over. it is about agreement.
The club in the form of KM said they want to 'improve' it, but it is only her opinion that it needs improvement unless there has been some kind of extensive consultation we have not been told about. her starting position is that it needs improvement, so one strand of consultation has been shut down in her mind already, it might be that it doesn't need improvement in the minds of others.
I can indeed think of at some improvements. I went to the POYD two years ago, and the club in house catering company produced food that was so utterly vile I felt like being sick, and for a huge price too.
One improvement could be to hold the event elsewhere, and if any club staff and players want to attend they could pay their own way, a different catering company could be sought at a non rip off price, and if no player wanted to attend they could be informed in their absence that they had won the trophy.
I read the whole proposal from the fans forum minutes and my personal interpretation was about somebody a bit paranoid that Rick Everitt or some other unwanted person would be invited by the fans organising to speak, and therefore it was a control obsessive wanting more control.
The POTY do does not have to be held at the clubs behest, and the players can be free to attend or not as they see fit, the fans don't need to beg.
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Post by iainment on Mar 5, 2017 21:17:57 GMT
Leave the fans POTY as it is.
Nothing to stop the club organising a Jr Reds POTY event.
Kids would enjoy that more than an adult event, and the fans who like the current way it's done can carry on as before.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 21:22:57 GMT
Leave the fans POTY as it is. Nothing to stop the club organising a Jr Reds POTY event. Kids would enjoy that more than an adult event, and the fans who like the current way it's done can carry on as before. I think a separate junior event is a good idea. Families could enjoy that, while supporters who prefer an adult-orientated evening event can enjoy the original POTY dinner. Nothing to prevent some mums and dads attending both events if they wished. Being a kids and family friendly Club is important, but I get the impression that the current administration at CAFC sometimes uses 'family friendly' as a fig leaf to cover broader intentions. Many Charlton fans are family folk, but even among them there are some who prefer a more grown up and formal event, later in the evening, without children present.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 5, 2017 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 5, 2017 21:28:16 GMT
Leave the fans POTY as it is. Nothing to stop the club organising a Jr Reds POTY event. Kids would enjoy that more than an adult event, and the fans who like the current way it's done can carry on as before. I disagree Ian especially with things being as they are. Don't forget it's held at The Valley and is normally attended by names heavily involved in the protests so not sure why the club should reach out and offer their hospitality and be responsible for paying the staff and what will no doubt be extra security costs this year. I think the clubs proposals are great personally, yes it may put a few noses out but given the hostility I think the arranging of the POTY event this year would probably be best left to the club.
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stonemuse
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Post by stonemuse on Mar 5, 2017 21:29:54 GMT
I've been to a couple of these events in the past and believe it should stay exactly as it is, i.e. Independent of the club.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 5, 2017 21:31:23 GMT
Too many protest groups now though stonemuse, non-protesters won't mix so you would have the protesters, players and club staff all in one room and that would be a recipe for disaster.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 21:33:21 GMT
Leave the fans POTY as it is. Nothing to stop the club organising a Jr Reds POTY event. Kids would enjoy that more than an adult event, and the fans who like the current way it's done can carry on as before. I disagree Ian especially with things being as they are. Don't forget it's held at The Valley and is normally attended by names heavily involved in the protests so not sure why the club should reach out and offer their hospitality and be responsible for paying the staff and what will no doubt be extra security costs this year. I think the clubs proposals are great personally, yes it may put a few noses out but given the hostility I think the arranging of the POTY event this year would probably be best left to the club. If the Club is that concerned about security and possible hostility from protesters, then making the format 'family friendly' and inviting kids along is tantamount to using families as political pawns (something the Club has been accused of before) unless they are also going to tighten security so much that nobody who has ever been associated with protests will be allowed in. If that is the level to which the climate within the Club has sunk, it would be better for the POTY event to disconnect itself from the Club's influence entirely, and hold its evening at another local venue. EDIT:
I have removed an inappropriate phrase, apologies for any offence caused.
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stonemuse
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Post by stonemuse on Mar 5, 2017 21:36:32 GMT
Too many protest groups now though stonemuse, none protesters won't mix so you would have the protesters, players and club staff all in one room and that would be a recipe for disaster. Which would piss me off. I think I've made it clear enough that we all support the same team. This message had been lost but is still recoverable. The club running the event does not solve this. I like the fact it is independent.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 5, 2017 21:38:24 GMT
I disagree Ian especially with things being as they are. Don't forget it's held at The Valley and is normally attended by names heavily involved in the protests so not sure why the club should reach out and offer their hospitality and be responsible for paying the staff and what will no doubt be extra security costs this year. I think the clubs proposals are great personally, yes it may put a few noses out but given the hostility I think the arranging of the POTY event this year would probably be best left to the club. If the Club are concerned about security and possible hostility from protesters, then making the format 'family friendly' and inviting kids along is tantamount to using children as human shields (something the Club has done before) unless they are also going to tighten security so much that nobody who has ever been associated with protests will be allowed in. If that is the level to which the climate within the Club has sunk, it would be better for the POTY event to disconnect itself from the Club's influence entirely, and hold its event at another local venue. Hold your horses mate, the club haven't said that I have. The protesters among the POTY organisers, if they are consistent, should disconnect itself from the Club's facilities anyway given their calls to boycott the club and call for fans not to take advantage of it's food and beverage facilities. You can't promote that then put money over the bar at a POTY dinner because it suits.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 5, 2017 21:39:54 GMT
Too many protest groups now though stonemuse, none protesters won't mix so you would have the protesters, players and club staff all in one room and that would be a recipe for disaster. Which would piss me off. I think I've made it clear enough that we all support the same team. This message had been lost but is still recoverable. The club running the event does not solve this. I like the fact it is independent. Perhaps if they could work together on it, it may be small steps towards rebuilding relationships.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 21:44:59 GMT
Hold your horses mate, the club haven't said that I have. The protesters among the POTY organisers, if they are consistent, should disconnect itself from the Club's facilities anyway given their calls to boycott the club and call for fans not to take advantage of it's food and beverage facilities. You can't promote that then put money over the bar at a POTY dinner because it suits. Fair enough (I did only say if the Club are concerned...) I understand that your post was not representing the Club, rather a personal position. Also on reflection I admit that 'human shields' is not a term I should have used. It is far too emotive. I should have said something more like 'tantamount to using families as political pawns'. So I apologise unreservedly for that. And I agree that if any people responsible for organising the POTY are also advocating not paying money to the Club in any form, they should not be willing to use its facilities. They should be pressing for the event to be held elsewhere, or withdraw their involvement from it.
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stonemuse
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Post by stonemuse on Mar 5, 2017 21:47:19 GMT
Which would piss me off. I think I've made it clear enough that we all support the same team. This message had been lost but is still recoverable. The club running the event does not solve this. I like the fact it is independent. Perhaps if they could work together on it, it may be small steps towards rebuilding relationships. I'm never against consensual and cooperative work normally, but in this case I do not agree. This is a supporter -run event historically and has been a success in such format.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 5, 2017 21:51:00 GMT
No need to apologise lardiman, I was referring to the whole event to be honest, I haven't started the thread to get anybody's goat up or antagonise the current organisers I raised it out of interest because the clubs proposals do look far more appealing than how the event has been arranged in previous years and appears to incorporate so much more that would appeal to the wider audience.
Having it on a Saturday after a game would be so much more appealing and do-able for me because me and the Mrs would come down, stay in a hotel, watch the game then attend the event afterwards where as in midweek as the current arrangement makes it virtually impossible to attend as it would many fans who don't live local to The Valley.
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Post by squareball on Mar 5, 2017 21:56:44 GMT
I don't see this as an independent event as the club is providing the venue and the players,possibly even some other things. I think that is perhaps involvement enough though. No point needling fans any more than nesscessary.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 22:06:43 GMT
No need to apologise lardiman, I was referring to the whole event to be honest, I haven't started the thread to get anybody's goat up or antagonise the current organisers I raised it out of interest because the clubs proposals do look far more appealing than how the event has been arranged in previous years and appears to incorporate so much more that would appeal to the wider audience. Having it on a Saturday after a game would be so much more appealing and do-able for me because me and the Mrs would come down, stay in a hotel, watch the game then attend the event afterwards where as in midweek as the current arrangement makes it virtually impossible to attend as it would many fans who don't live local to The Valley. Good of you to say so (regarding the apology) reamsofverse but I think I did over-step the mark. I know I get very oratorical sometimes, but I have no excuse for using inflammatory expressions. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of iainment for two separate events (a Young Reds family event by the Club) and a traditional POTY evening dinner (at another local venue) as being the best way forward. I do take your point however about fans who live a long way from SE7 finding it well nigh impossible to attend. This subject clearly needs lots more consideration.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 22:14:48 GMT
I think the toughest part in all this will be finding a 'Player of the Year'.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 5, 2017 22:15:24 GMT
da silva must be in with a shout!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 23:35:51 GMT
I think the toughest part in all this will be finding a 'Player of the Year'. Roger Johnson
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Post by seriouslyred on Mar 6, 2017 0:23:56 GMT
I think the toughest part in all this will be finding a 'Player of the Year'. Roger Johnson And if they don't like it they can...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 0:37:00 GMT
I think the toughest part in all this will be finding a 'Player of the Year'. Roger Johnson
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stonemuse
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Post by stonemuse on Mar 6, 2017 8:53:32 GMT
I think the toughest part in all this will be finding a 'Player of the Year'. Roger Johnson Makes sense. Which player currently best reflects the discontent in the club and friction between fans? Has to be RoJo ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 12:31:55 GMT
Hi all,
I am new to this site and for the benefit of the forum I shall say that I neither pro regime or anti regime. In fact I shall go as far to say that I actually have no time for either Ms. Meire or Mr. Everitt.
Having read the Fans Forum minutes that was published last month I was quite surprised to see that the club had decided to revisit the idea of trying to interfere with the fan run POTY dinner, using the same lines that were carefully thought out, given time too and then rejected as they were either unworkable or just simply not worth it.re the event would be after a home drubbing
For example, the club wish to make the event "More inclusive". Ms. Meire brought this up last year and after speaking to Ian wallis and other fan groups it was quite clear that everybody was welcome, including children.
The next idea from the club was to move the event to an evening after the last home game. Again, there was several reasons for this being a "non runner" including that the result on the day or opponent could have a major safety impact on the event. After all, could you imagine how sombre the event would be after a home drubbing or, heaven forbid, relegation? Of course those two event may not happen.
The subject of making it more affordable was also discussed and I see that the club has proposed a £3 deduction for adults and a new £15 tariff for children. This is something that the current organisers has asked for on several occasions but have been refused.
Now comes for a strange one in my book. The club say that they cannot offer up The Valley as the women's team are playing that day and that they will not be able to cope. I do find this strange as a couple of seasons ago the club held a family football tournament at The Valley, which not only lasted all day but they utilised the whole of the car park and the lower West Stand without any impact on the event.
What I now find strange is that last year the club was dead against participating in the event and even withdrew the member of staff that dealt with this event stating that the resource was better served elsewhere. Now they have staff that can knock up a powerpoint presentation to show how they wish to tell people to do the event while actually not taking part in it (Have a look at all the parts that the club are proposing to get involved in? They already do this)
With the club in the current situation that it finds itself in, I'm sure that the CEO, and other members of their support staff should, and could be utilising there time in a more effective measure then an already successful fan run evening, that has been going for several years.
Paul.
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