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Post by cafcginge on Aug 14, 2024 10:37:36 GMT
I really wouldn’t panic about last night. Yes there were one or two dissapointing things but overall it only told us what we already knew before the game. If we win on Saturday all will be forgotten. As for some of the half arsed performances, I feel that players had one eye on trying to not get injured as the league is the focus. The only player who should’ve been better is small especially if he wants a stake in the first xi which he did not do last night. But I can hardly imagine in the meetings about the goals this season them banging on about the caraboa cup too much so overall it don’t bother me last night. Bit of a non game for me. Even the stutter and silence after Terry asked NJ whether it’s a positive we went out so there’s less games said enough for me. NJ just isn’t allowed to admit it and has to treat the game with respect Did Terry ask NJ about the Taylor situation and any more news on incomings…… unfortunately not. I like Terry but really don’t think he should do interviews. |
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Post by grapevine49 on Aug 14, 2024 10:40:39 GMT
Many on X saying lets concentrate on the league and get out of league one. What I will say to them if relying on the likes of Campbell & Kanu to fire us in to the top 6 and to get out of league one you've got another thing coming. Looking at last night's game it became apparent that six or seven of the squad are not league one standard let alone promotion material. I will if I may refine your comments to that 6 or 7 seven cannot yet consistently perform to a League 1 standard while 2 or 3 more are unlikely to ever excel at this level. It is largely the inconsistency of youth. I am not going to write off any talent but confess I do not know where they go with it. I am no longer of the opinion Mr Nathan Jones won the day. Sorry people I know so many of you love the academy with a sense of real pride but this is the Sandgaard, Roddy, Gallen, Avery, Pipeline legacy. After 2 seasons of carrying circa 60 pro contracts (how do give even half meaningful game time) at least it is down to manageable proportions yet where are these lads supposed to step up to the man’s game? As a Championship club you would have the opportunity to loan them individually to a League 1 or League 2 club but we are League 1. There are only so many League 2 clubs and not many would fit or have the appetite for the right learning development environment. Look at Z. Mitchell at Colchester last year. It is the difference between a very valid theory and the practicality of real time operations. For all of the fancy technology now in the game let’s be clear come match day this is industrial. Let’s try to put it in a personal environment. I am long since retired and I don’t know any one’s career development but in mine when you were put on a specific job with increased responsibility for the first time you were given 3 months to learn it. That was the employers’ training duty to you. You would then return to your previous level as your core duties. The next time the opportunity arose you were expected to step up to the role and be fully function for 6 months. You would then rotate out to other duties before returning to the role with the expectation you would then deliver genuine improvement to and excellence in the role because you knew exactly what you were doing.With respect do Campbell, Kanu, Anderson, Asiimwe yet look like they really know what they are doing. Small is in a better pace but that is at best based on half a season and he certainly has his weaknesses. Yes Leaburn was pretty close to being fully functional but we have only seen snapshots of Z. Mitchell and we are reportedly about to add an 8th with Dixon. Note we are talking about the fully functional stage not the genuine improvement and excellence in the role stage needed for a promotion challenge. I apologise know I am repeating myself but despite the fluffy words in any business there is only going to be so much investment bandwidth and you compare this stuff to the likes of Kermorgant or even a Pearce we are on a different planet. It was why when I saw the ageing, injury plagued Connor Wickham for one game last season with his competitive engagement with central defenders, moving them in and out position, leading the line, stretching the play, finding space in the box it screamed out the difference needed. After 10yrs it was second nature to him. Regrettably his injury profile means he offers no meaningful solution. Do any of Campbell, Kanu or even Ahadme evidence any such thought and understanding of the role. In very large part these lads still carry the air of just pulling on the shirt and going out to play. They are not in the business of influencing/ controlling the game. It largely looks like they enjoy running around a lot. The game and the opposition are invariably dictating to them. For all of his current limitations I can see exactly why Jones picks Anderson. He, while his legs carry him, has the edge to be up for the fight intent on imposing himself on the game. The troubling thing is both Rodwell & Scott as ex-pros know this stuff and come up with 8+8+8. If I were Jones there is one place I would be. It is in America. Having booked out a boardroom for a week, with beer and sandwiches, with blinds drawn, armed with a range of tapes, a marker pen and a whiteboard talking to investors explaining how this friggin game actually works. There are executive techniques calling managing down the levels. These guys need to hear from Jones, Hart, Fleming, Pearce about the business they are assumedly trying to build because I am simply not seeing it. I will now leave you in peace for a while. There are 16 days for people to build on the work they have done to this point. I genuinely hope they do. |
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Post by kings hill addick on Aug 14, 2024 11:01:37 GMT
Did Terry ask NJ about the Taylor situation and any more news on incomings…… unfortunately not. I like Terry but really don’t think he should do interviews. To be fair Terry normally asks a question, then answers it, then asks the manager if he agrees with him. I get that this approach might be needed for nervous players (especially young ones) but for someone like Nathan Jones, that seems to like to talk, a lot, just ask him open questions and let him speak. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 14, 2024 11:12:07 GMT
Looking at last night's game it became apparent that six or seven of the squad are not league one standard let alone promotion material. I will if I may refine your comments to that 6 or 7 seven cannot yet consistently perform to a League 1 standard while 2 or 3 more are unlikely to ever excel at this level. It is largely the inconsistency of youth. I am not going to write off any talent but confess I do not know where they go with it. I am no longer of the opinion Mr Nathan Jones won the day. Sorry people I know so many of you love the academy with a sense of real pride but this is the Sandgaard, Roddy, Gallen, Avery, Pipeline legacy. After 2 seasons of carrying circa 60 pro contracts (how do give even half meaningful game time) at least it is down to manageable proportions yet where are these lads supposed to step up to the man’s game? As a Championship club you would have the opportunity to loan them individually to a League 1 or League 2 club but we are League 1. There are only so many League 2 clubs and not many would fit or have the appetite for the right learning development environment. Look at Z. Mitchell at Colchester last year. It is the difference between a very valid theory and the practicality of real time operations. For all of the fancy technology now in the game let’s be clear come match day this is industrial. Let’s try to put it in a personal environment. I am long since retired and I don’t know any one’s career development but in mine when you were put on a specific job with increased responsibility for the first time you were given 3 months to learn it. That was the employers’ training duty to you. You would then return to your previous level as your core duties. The next time the opportunity arose you were expected to step up to the role and be fully function for 6 months. You would then rotate out to other duties before returning to the role with the expectation you would then deliver genuine improvement to and excellence in the role because you knew exactly what you were doing.With respect do Campbell, Kanu, Anderson, Asiimwe yet look like they really know what they are doing. Small is in a better pace but that is at best based on half a season and he certainly has his weaknesses. Yes Leaburn was pretty close to being fully functional but we have only seen snapshots of Z. Mitchell and we are reportedly about to add an 8th with Dixon. Note we are talking about the fully functional stage not the genuine improvement and excellence in the role stage needed for a promotion challenge. I apologise know I am repeating myself but despite the fluffy words in any business there is only going to be so much investment bandwidth and you compare this stuff to the likes of Kermorgant or even a Pearce we are on a different planet. It was why when I saw the ageing, injury plagued Connor Wickham for one game last season with his competitive engagement with central defenders, moving them in and out position, leading the line, stretching the play, finding space in the box it screamed out the difference needed. After 10yrs it was second nature to him. Regrettably his injury profile means he offers no meaningful solution. Do any of Campbell, Kanu or even Ahadme evidence any such thought and understanding of the role. In very large part these lads still carry the air of just pulling on the shirt and going out to play. They are not in the business of influencing/ controlling the game. It largely looks like they enjoy running around a lot. The game and the opposition are invariably dictating to them. For all of his current limitations I can see exactly why Jones picks Anderson. He, while his legs carry him, has the edge to be up for the fight intent on imposing himself on the game. The troubling thing is both Rodwell & Scott as ex-pros know this stuff and come up with 8+8+8. If I were Jones there is one place I would be. It is in America. Having booked out a boardroom for a week, with beer and sandwiches, with blinds drawn, armed with a range of tapes, a marker pen and a whiteboard talking to investors explaining how this friggin game actually works. There are executive techniques calling managing down the levels. These guys need to hear from Jones, Hart, Fleming, Pearce about the business they are assumedly trying to build because I am simply not seeing it. I will now leave you in peace for a while. There are 16 days for people to build on the work they have done to this point. I genuinely hope they do. Couldn't agree more grapevine. Excellent post and summary of the younger players and their limitations. Ahadme on the other hand can only be as good as we want him to be. Playing as a lone striker hoping he'll run at defenders won't happen, that's Goddens role. His strongest asset is providing a focal point to receive balls back to goal and act as the hold up striker for those around him and those that deliver a late run into the box. If we haven't got bodies in advanced positions for that to happen then I'm afraid Ahadme's role in the side is pointless. He's a good player and we must play to his strengths. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on Aug 14, 2024 11:17:47 GMT
I will if I may refine your comments to that 6 or 7 seven cannot yet consistently perform to a League 1 standard while 2 or 3 more are unlikely to ever excel at this level. It is largely the inconsistency of youth. I am not going to write off any talent but confess I do not know where they go with it. I am no longer of the opinion Mr Nathan Jones won the day. Sorry people I know so many of you love the academy with a sense of real pride but this is the Sandgaard, Roddy, Gallen, Avery, Pipeline legacy. After 2 seasons of carrying circa 60 pro contracts (how do give even half meaningful game time) at least it is down to manageable proportions yet where are these lads supposed to step up to the man’s game? As a Championship club you would have the opportunity to loan them individually to a League 1 or League 2 club but we are League 1. There are only so many League 2 clubs and not many would fit or have the appetite for the right learning development environment. Look at Z. Mitchell at Colchester last year. It is the difference between a very valid theory and the practicality of real time operations. For all of the fancy technology now in the game let’s be clear come match day this is industrial. Let’s try to put it in a personal environment. I am long since retired and I don’t know any one’s career development but in mine when you were put on a specific job with increased responsibility for the first time you were given 3 months to learn it. That was the employers’ training duty to you. You would then return to your previous level as your core duties. The next time the opportunity arose you were expected to step up to the role and be fully function for 6 months. You would then rotate out to other duties before returning to the role with the expectation you would then deliver genuine improvement to and excellence in the role because you knew exactly what you were doing.With respect do Campbell, Kanu, Anderson, Asiimwe yet look like they really know what they are doing. Small is in a better pace but that is at best based on half a season and he certainly has his weaknesses. Yes Leaburn was pretty close to being fully functional but we have only seen snapshots of Z. Mitchell and we are reportedly about to add an 8th with Dixon. Note we are talking about the fully functional stage not the genuine improvement and excellence in the role stage needed for a promotion challenge. I apologise know I am repeating myself but despite the fluffy words in any business there is only going to be so much investment bandwidth and you compare this stuff to the likes of Kermorgant or even a Pearce we are on a different planet. It was why when I saw the ageing, injury plagued Connor Wickham for one game last season with his competitive engagement with central defenders, moving them in and out position, leading the line, stretching the play, finding space in the box it screamed out the difference needed. After 10yrs it was second nature to him. Regrettably his injury profile means he offers no meaningful solution. Do any of Campbell, Kanu or even Ahadme evidence any such thought and understanding of the role. In very large part these lads still carry the air of just pulling on the shirt and going out to play. They are not in the business of influencing/ controlling the game. It largely looks like they enjoy running around a lot. The game and the opposition are invariably dictating to them. For all of his current limitations I can see exactly why Jones picks Anderson. He, while his legs carry him, has the edge to be up for the fight intent on imposing himself on the game. The troubling thing is both Rodwell & Scott as ex-pros know this stuff and come up with 8+8+8. If I were Jones there is one place I would be. It is in America. Having booked out a boardroom for a week, with beer and sandwiches, with blinds drawn, armed with a range of tapes, a marker pen and a whiteboard talking to investors explaining how this friggin game actually works. There are executive techniques calling managing down the levels. These guys need to hear from Jones, Hart, Fleming, Pearce about the business they are assumedly trying to build because I am simply not seeing it. I will now leave you in peace for a while. There are 16 days for people to build on the work they have done to this point. I genuinely hope they do. Couldn't agree more grapevine. Excellent post and summary of the younger players and their limitations. Ahadme on the other hand can only be as good as we want him to be. Playing as a lone striker hoping he'll run at defenders won't happen, that's Goddens role. His strongest asset is providing a focal point to receive balls back to goal and act as the hold up striker for those around him and those that deliver a late run into the box. If we haven't got bodies in advanced positions for that to happen then I'm afraid Ahadme's role in the side is pointless. He's a good player and we must play to his strengths. When you play five at the back and two defensive midfielders in front of them, one of which runs around a lot but doesn’t have a forward pass in him, it will be a struggle for us to get men forward to support him…. I can see NJ picking the same side on Saturday as per Wigan and a very similar performance… |
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Post by kings hill addick on Aug 14, 2024 12:52:58 GMT
Couldn't agree more grapevine. Excellent post and summary of the younger players and their limitations. Ahadme on the other hand can only be as good as we want him to be. Playing as a lone striker hoping he'll run at defenders won't happen, that's Goddens role. His strongest asset is providing a focal point to receive balls back to goal and act as the hold up striker for those around him and those that deliver a late run into the box. If we haven't got bodies in advanced positions for that to happen then I'm afraid Ahadme's role in the side is pointless. He's a good player and we must play to his strengths. When you play five at the back and two defensive midfielders in front of them, one of which runs around a lot but doesn’t have a forward pass in him, it will be a struggle for us to get men forward to support him…. I can see NJ picking the same side on Saturday as per Wigan and a very similar performance… The 5-3-2 (as you describe it) should switch to a 3-5-2 in possession and even a 3-4-3 (with one WB pushing forward and another one holding back - in midfield). This should leave the other striker and a WB to play off Ahadme. The dilemma, as I see it, is that with such a leaky defence last season we are focusing, in these early games, on keeping a clean sheet. You can't lose if you don't concede yet, as we proved last season, you can lose even if you score. Last season we scored two goals in eight games and drew six, lost two. So in eight games, when we scored two goals, we picked up 6 points. For now, I'm happy with defence first, then when the team settles a bit (and hopefully we bring in another player or two) we start to play a bit more expansive. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on Aug 14, 2024 13:22:20 GMT
When you play five at the back and two defensive midfielders in front of them, one of which runs around a lot but doesn’t have a forward pass in him, it will be a struggle for us to get men forward to support him…. I can see NJ picking the same side on Saturday as per Wigan and a very similar performance… The 5-3-2 (as you describe it) should switch to a 3-5-2 in possession and even a 3-4-3 (with one WB pushing forward and another one holding back - in midfield). This should leave the other striker and a WB to play off Ahadme. The dilemma, as I see it, is that with such a leaky defence last season we are focusing, in these early games, on keeping a clean sheet. You can't lose if you don't concede yet, as we proved last season, you can lose even if you score. Last season we scored two goals in eight games and drew six, lost two. So in eight games, when we scored two goals, we picked up 6 points. For now, I'm happy with defence first, then when the team settles a bit (and hopefully we bring in another player or two) we start to play a bit more expansive. You are correct, it should switch to 3-5-2 when in possession but in the two games we have played what percentage of the time have our wingbacks ventured into the opposition half and when they have supplied a meaningful cross? I am all for more defensive solidity but 3 centre backs and two defensive holding midfielders IMO is too defensive especially when all one does is run around a lot passing the ball backwards so that our CB’s can hoof it forward aerially towards 5ft 7 forwards…. 3 shots on target in two games is not the kind of football to get supporters counting the minutes down to take their seats at the Valley…. I would agree to an extent that if we win games 1-0 with a couple of efforts on goal supporters will take that but it is when we start losing goals and losing games with very little attacking intent that the meltdown will well and truly begin…. Probably like most I was quite excited when the likes of Mitchell, Adhadme, Godden and Edward’s came in and I really thought we were going to give it a real good go…..but now I am really not so sure how our season will go….for me last night it wasn’t the fact that we lost it was the manner in which we lost and the style of football especially after the complete penalty farce……for me it was a real reality check…. |
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Post by chertseyaddick on Aug 14, 2024 15:05:20 GMT
Alas our three best CBs are all right footed, the Mitchell brothers and Jones. Can we get one of them to be effective on the left as was Tyrell?
Dont think we can write off Small after one poor match.
Where is TT?
Perhaps look at Thelo Aasgaard, 6'2", former winger so could have a bit of pace uptop, and a decent 10 if we try plan B.
Loan TC to AFCW.
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Post by kings hill addick on Aug 14, 2024 15:12:46 GMT
Alas our three best CBs are all right footed, the Mitchell brothers and Jones. Can we get one of them to be effective on the left as was Tyrell? Dont think we can write off Small after one poor match. Where is TT? Terrel Thomas signed for Carlisle, if that’s who you meant. If you meant Tony the Tiger, he was last seen on the front of a packet of Frosties in Sainsbury’s in Maidstone. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on Aug 14, 2024 15:15:30 GMT
Alas our three best CBs are all right footed, the Mitchell brothers and Jones. Can we get one of them to be effective on the left as was Tyrell? Dont think we can write off Small after one poor match. Where is TT? Small just had a poor game last night….. it happens,….he is one of few creative players that we actually have and definitely should not be written off…..I can see him and Edward’s playing in the same side at times this season with Edwards taking up that left side CB role….TBF he spent a fair amount of time there last Saturday at Wigan You would think Terry Taylor is on his way out if he can’t get a game or even a squad place last night….that is if he hasn’t picked up a knock in training…..I would much rather keep him than Edun……Maybe we are bringing in a better version to play alongside Coventry and Docherty |
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Post by aucklandaddick on Aug 14, 2024 15:24:12 GMT
Alas our three best CBs are all right footed, the Mitchell brothers and Jones. Can we get one of them to be effective on the left as was Tyrell? Dont think we can write off Small after one poor match. Where is TT? Perhaps look at Thelo Aasgaard, 6'2", former winger so could have a bit of pace uptop, and a decent 10 if we try plan B. Loan TC to AFCW. Aasgaard is just the type of very decent creative player that we need…..Wigans best player on Saturday…unfortunately though I think he would be very ineffectual trying to work with Gillesphey’s 50 yard diagonal aerial bombs……. |
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Post by Mundell on Aug 14, 2024 15:26:19 GMT
Alas our three best CBs are all right footed, the Mitchell brothers and Jones. Can we get one of them to be effective on the left as was Tyrell? Dont think we can write off Small after one poor match. Where is TT? Small just had a poor game last night….. it happens,….he is one of few creative players that we actually have and definitely should not be written off…..I can see him and Edward’s playing in the same side at times this season with Edwards taking up that left side CB role….TBF he spent a fair amount of time there last Saturday at Wigan You would think Terry Taylor is on his way out if he can’t get a game or even a squad place last night….that is if he hasn’t picked up a knock in training…..I would much rather keep him than Edun……Maybe we are bringing in a better version to play alongside Coventry and Docherty I agree re Small. Re Terry Taylor, I wonder if a part of the problem here is that if you’re putting together a seven man bench (or even nine in the EFL Cup) to cover injuries, “legs” and to offer some tactical flexibility you probably don’t prioritise a replacement pivot, especially if you have no doubts about Coventry’s fitness and if you have an alternative (Edmond’s-Green) in an emergency? Taylor doesn’t really offer anything different and is probably a bit “stuck” unless Coventry is unavailable. |
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Post by chertseyaddick on Aug 15, 2024 0:16:30 GMT
TT is different in that he actually looks forward.
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Post by aucklandaddick on Aug 15, 2024 8:22:40 GMT
TT is different in that he actually looks forward. Correct, he was pretty impressive in pre season and has a forward pass on him…….but it seems NJ much prefers a defensive midfielder whose intentions are to run around a lot applying a press and then pass the ball back to the centre backs so that they can hoof it aerially forward to no where in particular….. |
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Post by Mundell on Aug 15, 2024 9:50:41 GMT
TT is different in that he actually looks forward. Correct, he was pretty impressive in pre season and has a forward pass on him…….but it seems NJ much prefers a defensive midfielder whose intentions are to run around a lot applying a press and then pass the ball back to the centre backs so that they can hoof it aerially forward to no where in particular….. Do you think Taylor could play where Anderson plays? It’s very clear Jones doesn’t. The club appears to believe he’s a classic pivot, pure and simple. That’s where he played in preseason where I agree he did well. His problem is that Jones is playing with a single pivot and Coventry is ahead of him in the pecking order. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on Aug 15, 2024 9:56:52 GMT
Correct, he was pretty impressive in pre season and has a forward pass on him…….but it seems NJ much prefers a defensive midfielder whose intentions are to run around a lot applying a press and then pass the ball back to the centre backs so that they can hoof it aerially forward to no where in particular….. Do you think Taylor could play where Anderson plays? It’s very clear Jones doesn’t. The club appears to believe he’s a classic pivot, pure and simple. That’s where he played in preseason where I agree he did well. His problem is that Jones is playing with a single pivot and Coventry is ahead of him in the pecking order. No I don’t as all NJ is using Anderson for is a supplementary defensive shield, battering type player who runs around a lot/ has a good engine and presses opposition players before passing it backwards and sideways…….Taylor plays in Coventrys role, and you have to wonder what happens if we were to lose Coventry…or in fact encounter a few injuries which no doubt will happen, cue Edun running around in the middle of the park….. |
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Post by Mundell on Aug 15, 2024 10:10:57 GMT
Do you think Taylor could play where Anderson plays? It’s very clear Jones doesn’t. The club appears to believe he’s a classic pivot, pure and simple. That’s where he played in preseason where I agree he did well. His problem is that Jones is playing with a single pivot and Coventry is ahead of him in the pecking order. No I don’t as all NJ is using Anderson for is a supplementary defensive shield, battering type player who runs around a lot/ has a good engine and presses opposition players before passing it backwards and sideways…….Taylor plays in Coventrys role, and you have to wonder what happens if we were to lose Coventry…or in fact encounter a few injuries which no doubt will happen, cue Edun running around in the middle of the park….. I think we’re on the same page. I’ve been surprised by the rumours that Taylor might be moving on because if Coventry is ever unavailable for any reason we don’t have anyone other than Taylor who can play in his role. Edmonds Green played in front of the back four for Huddersfield when Warnock was manager, and I’m told he did so successfully, but he’s obviously a very different type of player. |
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