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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 17:38:05 GMT
Read it again webbo/offit2 or are you dyslexic? I'll start you off shall I ......."I have never bought it but I am told from several fans........." Obviously they have told me it's an uncomfortable read then elaborated on as to why. I don't see what's hard to understand about that. Well I'm told by several fans that ITTV is a holding ground for life's nutters and outcasts and I should go nowhere near it, but it's become more than a guilty pleasure... ;-)
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 2, 2014 17:48:16 GMT
That's because you love it here rikofold, I am like the Pied Piper go on admit it, people are just drawn to me like a magnet!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 17:58:10 GMT
Read it again webbo/offit2 or are you dyslexic? I'll start you off shall I ......."I have never bought it but I am told from several fans........." Obviously they have told me it's an uncomfortable read then elaborated on as to why. I don't see what's hard to understand about that. I don't think there's anything difficult to understand here. Just as you have a far better appreciation of a game you didn't attend than people who actually did, you're also able to castigate a publication you've never read because someone told you they didn't like it. It really is an extraordinary talent.
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Post by wellingaddick on Sept 2, 2014 18:20:07 GMT
This is richer than Donald Trump!! I take it that you don't buy or read Airman Brown's version of the Beano VOTV? I have never bought it and never will but I am told from several fans that they feel that it is coming a very uncomfortable read? From front to back it's just constant negatives towards RD with the odd positive thrown in in a very poor attempt at trying to balance out his obvious issues. For someone who doesn't read it you have some very strong opinions on it. How does that work exactly? Rick is an acquired taste. I quite like him personally, the few times I've met him, but he's not the easiest person and I'm sure he'd admit that himself. The idea that he wants to get involved on the front line of some militant action against the owners couldn't be further from the truth, but it suits the agenda of those prejudiced against him. I think he could pay more attention to how he's perceived because I think it interferes with his message that's actually been much more supportive of the new ownership than's been portrayed - I don't think he cares what people think of him a great deal though, which is undoubtedly to his detriment. If he wanted to be involved in the Trust I'm quite sure he'd have stood for board election, but he hasn't. What's beyond doubt though is that he has the club as his first priority. Anything else is a lazy caricature. May I politely enquire as to who was the brains behind G21 then?
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 2, 2014 18:25:21 GMT
Brains?
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Post by wellingaddick on Sept 2, 2014 18:27:43 GMT
Wrong choice of word, but I'm sure you know what I mean.
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 2, 2014 18:29:42 GMT
Read it again webbo/offit2 or are you dyslexic? I'll start you off shall I ......."I have never bought it but I am told from several fans........." Obviously they have told me it's an uncomfortable read then elaborated on as to why. I don't see what's hard to understand about that. I don't think there's anything difficult to understand here. Just as you have a far better appreciation of a game you didn't attend than people who actually did, you're also able to castigate a publication you've never read because someone told you they didn't like it. It really is an extraordinary talent. If you are back here to ruffle a few feathers you won't last long. Arseholes like you who keep piping out about attending game really are irritating little squirts. If we played our home games 220 miles away what would our attendances be? The 15,500 we get now? I don't think so. My home attendance is as poor as you and many others away attendance it's as simple as that. I can't afford £150 pound every home game and wouldn't pay out that kind of money if I could. Of that I make no apology, not to your type anyway. Like I said if you are back to dig me out at every opportunity just like you did last time you'll be gone in no time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 19:01:34 GMT
You've completely missed the point of my post.It wasn't about your attendance at games - and you make a huge assumption in saying you attend more home games than I attend aways,you don't - and I appreciate the logistic and financial implications of living where you do - but rather your damning comments about a publication you've never read.
You've repeatedly said that you like to tell it how it is regardless of what people think,yet when people do react to your polemic and threats of violence etc.you play the victim and threaten them/me with banning,this from a forum that likes to boast it never bans anyone and is a bastion of free speech.
If you come out with the sort of bombast you do,then you have to accept the brickbats it attracts,otherwise you come across as someone who dishes it out by the lorry-load but can't take so much as a thimbleful.
You are,as you mentioned earlier, a pied-piper,and I am ever drawn back to your rants.However,I will disagree with you as I see fit,and won't ever resort to the sort of invective you did concerning my late mother.If you want to ban me ;go ahead,but you will look the poorer for it.
Cheers.
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 2, 2014 19:16:50 GMT
I think you'll find that when the insults start flying about in my direction I invite those who like to dish it out on line to say it to my face, most people would.
However as you are probably aware nobody ever seem to take me up on it. If you are comfortable with your opinion that I am a bully then good luck to you, but I think people that know me including many Charlton fans will tell you otherwise.
I am an easy going person who gets on with most people and I am sorry if that portrays me in a light that you refuse to accept.
I'm straight down the line, I get on with people and people get on with me, if people choose that's not for them fine, I'll leave them alone and they can do the same.
It's the mouthy fuckers I don't like or have any time for and most of the time you'll find that they are the cowards too. My outlook towards these people are if you want to say something say it, don't type it.
Those friends I have mentioned above I have huge respect for, so when a discussion takes place and the focus of it is a CAFC fanzine I trust their judgement and opinions on it. They don't mind me making what those are public so why should you?
There are billions of pounds spent each year on advertising yet the best form of it costs absolutely nothing, do you know what that is?......Word of Mouth.
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Post by webbo on Sept 2, 2014 19:28:30 GMT
Read it again webbo/offit2 or are you dyslexic? I'll start you off shall I ......."I have never bought it but I am told from several fans........." Obviously they have told me it's an uncomfortable read then elaborated on as to why. I don't see what's hard to understand about that. Not dyslexic. When you described votv 'from front to back' it made it sound like you know what's in it. In reality you are making your judgements based on what others have told you, so they're not really your judgements at all, but the judgements of others.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 19:33:32 GMT
I've never said you were a 'bully' what I've actually said, on more than one occasion, is that you've threatened people with violence,something you can't deny.There is a difference.
As for the old refrain 'say it to my face' ,this is the internet - you type.If by 'mouthy fucker',you're referring to me,I will happily repeat anything I've typed on here to you in person in the improbable event we should ever meet.
Perhaps in real life you are an 'easy going person' but on here,you are anything but.The internet and visceral world are two entirely different entities,a fact to date,you seem not to have grasped.
Anyway,enough,I'm going to eat...
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 2, 2014 19:34:32 GMT
Does it matter? Yes they are the judgements of others but they are enough to enable me to form my own judgement on not to buy it, what's the difference.
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 2, 2014 19:40:05 GMT
I've never said you were a 'bully' what I've actually said, on more than one occasion, is that you've threatened people with violence,something you can't deny.There is a difference. As for the old refrain 'say it to my face' ,this is the internet - you type.If by 'mouthy fucker',you're referring to me,I will happily repeat anything I've typed on here to you in person in the improbable event we should ever meet. Perhaps in real life you are an 'easy going person' but on here,you are anything but.The internet and visceral world are two entirely different entities,a fact to date,you seem not to have grasped. Anyway,enough,I'm going to eat... If you go to home matches then why should it be improbable? When I come down we openly discuss who's up for a meet up and a pint and on each occasion the numbers are up on the last time and we don't hide where we will be drinking either. Don't worry about what I've grasped and what I haven't that's my problem not yours.
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Post by webbo on Sept 2, 2014 20:30:13 GMT
Does it matter? Yes they are the judgements of others but they are enough to enable me to form my own judgement on not to buy it, what's the difference. I suppose for me it is that I prefer to pass judgement on something I have seen first hand rather than rely on the opinions of others. A bit like footballers, I find it comes in handy if I've seen them play before I write them off/praise them to the skies.
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Post by muttleycafc on Sept 2, 2014 21:42:28 GMT
I don't have a problem with G21. At the time there was cause for concern and rightly or wrongly they acted on it in a way they thought appropriate. Now there was evidence for that concern and I shared it. Time has shown that whilst there may still be some causes for concern, many of the things that pre-occupied some fans have not come to pass. For that reason, I assume G21 have not seen the need to meet again.
Some of those in G21 made stands in the past, but they were needed then. When you want to form a movement, it generally starts with a few. One of the things that seems to have got people's goat is why they think they are so special? I would imagine that it is nothing more sinister than the fact that they know each other and they have previous, should they have decided that their movement needed to grow, I have no doubt they would have invited others to join them.
The best way to answer opposition is through actions, not insults. With his knowledge of European football, Reams probably and justifiably had less cause for concern, but as somebody who didn't really know how good our signings were, I looked at the January signings and this gave me genuine reason for concern as they were not good and showed misjudgment of the division. The big change since last season, is that signings like Vetokele and Gundmundson have regained my trust. Those without Reams' knowledge who were so positive happily seem to have fallen on the right side of occurances, but that doesn't make their unquestioning position right. In fact I felt that the faith of some was more religious in its nature than logical. I always accepted that things could turn out good, but expressed concern on the facts I had at the time.
And this post is anti trust which is anti G21. The truth is that as things stand, there is probably no need for either. Not to put any pressure on the club at least. Although, and I do believe it with a passion, for all his baggage, Airman has knowledge that the club would find useful in attracting supporters and the trust could play a part in this too. But they have to be happy with this and of course the club ownership needs to be happy too. When you think about it, all are Charlton fans and want what is best for the club - surely there is a logic to having some harmony rather than snipe at each other.
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 2, 2014 21:49:48 GMT
I don't think there is any way back for RE at Charlton to be honest which is the way it should be.
RD didn't build up a multi million pound fortune based on help, advice and ideas from other people.
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Post by muttleycafc on Sept 2, 2014 21:54:57 GMT
He may have done along with his own of course. From where I am looking, it seems that he relies greatly on people he trusts. I agree RE is probably not one of them. But we shouldn't re-write history and forget that he played a significant and positive part in it.
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Post by seriouslyred on Sept 2, 2014 22:12:18 GMT
I was there at the time on the inside and "G21" chose to ignore a supporters organisation with over 1,000 members and 5,000 contacts because they did not want to subsume their identity into a bigger fan based body. In reality the supporters body had weeks not days to make statements and it is indicative of the egos and immaturity that some elements blinked. The club did not blink! I could quote emails sent by Rick Everett... I could post the email I sent to the puppet from Prague! It's not pretty but three members of the Trust board came back to me and said "nice one"! I can respect Reams position because he has never pretended to support this collective. On the other hand Henry, Prague and Airman did.. Until it doesn't suit their egos and agendas. I left the Trust board when I did because the landscape evolved such that I could add nothing...also I was busy with work and family...and I calculated that everything would be determined by whether we stayed up or not... Had we gone down we were in a war zone! Had I stayed it would have gotten extremely messy and quite destructive...in answer to a criticism above which I hear very clearly, one cannot build a fans collective with a relationship with the club if individuals are going after personal targets and trying to score points, particularly if they act in a maverick fashion with no accountability. I'll say it again, I don't care what people did in the last century, if they attack the club and owner when a failing manager was being replaced; if they propose season ticket boycotts against my/our club without consulting fans, if they poor vitriol on the management team then they can can fuck off to Ebbsfleet and join their non-league mates. People with knowledge and connections have a responsibility to act in a mature fashion to help build our club - simples
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Post by muttleycafc on Sept 2, 2014 22:23:58 GMT
Some do not agree Powell was failing but being failed. It isn't really productive to argue this ad infinitum - he is gone and a time must come when all should move on. But any reasonable position has to understand all sides, whether they be right or wrong. Of course proposing a season ticket boycott by its very nature relies on the co-operation of fans.
I think Airman has on record said it wasn't a great idea and was born from frustration he felt at the time. You can call some of us idiots but a lot of us were behind Chrissy 100%. And I was openly critical of some of his tactics as posts on CL prove, but I had faith he was learning and was the right manager for us. I think he earned that trust, that to be fair Riga earned and Peeters is earning now. Trust shouldn't be handed out before it is earned, but it should be given when it is. G21 was a response to a situation - a situation that turned out not to be as bad as they feared. Great - they stood down - why can't some get over it. I also accept that Powell wasn't the right manager for RD, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't appreciate the good work he has done for us.
When the trust was formed I also respectfully questioned why on CL. Largely for the same reasons Reams has given in the past. But I can see the potential for a trust if a) it has money behind it or b) the club wants and encourages it.
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Post by webbo on Sept 2, 2014 22:46:35 GMT
I was there at the time on the inside and "G21" chose to ignore a supporters organisation with over 1,000 members and 5,000 contacts because they did not want to subsume their identity into a bigger fan based body. In reality the supporters body had weeks not days to make statements and it is indicative of the egos and immaturity that some elements blinked. The club did not blink! I could quote emails sent by Rick Everett... I could post the email I sent to the puppet from Prague! It's not pretty but three members of the Trust board came back to me and said "nice one"! I can respect Reams position because he has never pretended to support this collective. On the other hand Henry, Prague and Airman did.. Until it doesn't suit their egos and agendas. I left the Trust board when I did because the landscape evolved such that I could add nothing...also I was busy with work and family...and I calculated that everything would be determined by whether we stayed up or not... Had we gone down we were in a war zone! Had I stayed it would have gotten extremely messy and quite destructive...in answer to a criticism above which I hear very clearly, one cannot build a fans collective with a relationship with the club if individuals are going after personal targets and trying to score points, particularly if they act in a maverick fashion with no accountability. I'll say it again, I don't care what people did in the last century, if they attack the club and owner when a failing manager was being replaced; if they propose season ticket boycotts against my/our club without consulting fans, if they poor vitriol on the management team then they can can fuck off to Ebbsfleet and join their non-league mates. People with knowledge and connections have a responsibility to act in a mature fashion to help build our club - simples I kind of get that you want Charlton fans to come together in some way, you have urged a kind of understanding between Into The Valley and the trust in this thread. However you may well have a personal agenda of your own, which leads you to wish to kind of pick and choose the elements that would make up an active fan base. I asked earlier why you think Trust membership would collapse in the very unlikely event that AB got involved. Beyond a few conversations with others it is essentially simply an opinion. I also said you may be wrong given that VOTV is still selling, indeed the sales of VOTV may carry more weight than your personal opinion and conversations on the matter. If you and others are really serious about the fan base moving forward in a positive way, perhaps it would be much more productive to focus on what brings us together than what divides us.
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Post by seriouslyred on Sept 2, 2014 22:49:56 GMT
I used my connections to lobby and find out the agenda...I backed Chris Powell 100% until Sheffield Utd away. Thing is someone in the boardroom 12 months previous told me a home truth: the directors watch the same games as the fans, same team selection, same substitutions. In retrospect it strikes me that the only reason Powell kept going was because it was not in Jiminez / Slater interests to sack him... Don't get me wrong I don't think that was right but what if they couldn't sell the club and no wins turned up? The simple fact is that Riga came in and delivered wins against bottom half teams with the same players. The new owner had a vision and we see that now. Only six months later... I happen to work in a field where I see this all the time...only last year some fucker took me out and I'm looking for a new gig. My no.1 rule is back the badge...not the player, manager or whoever. I fear some people rush in without understanding the bigger picture and unable to sit tight and wait for more information. What is very clear is that the football is fun again
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Post by muttleycafc on Sept 2, 2014 23:04:59 GMT
My last comment on your simplistic view of Powell was that he must have been an average manager in the first part of the 12/13 season and a great one for the last 9 games or so. There were some facts that people who look at the whole picture could see - Players were introduced who were not improving the quality of a side fighting relegation. Sheffield United away is a negative that can be thrown at RD IMO.Thuram was an accident waiting to happen every minute he played and Powell was under pressure to play him. AA was chosen by Powell and was the player who did contribute. Riga did a great job, but it was largely Powell's team that got us out of trouble.
The problem is and was that Powell has his way and it is not the current owner's way. It was destined to end with his departure at some point. As RD is the owner. I can see Peeters is a better fit for his club. But to dig at Powell like he didn't do a great job for us is a bit disrespectful. 21 People were concerned about the club they support to the point they decided to have a meeting. Had things gone from bad to worse their number would be growing, but they are not because they are not needed. What is the trust's excuse? It's like the Peoples front of Judea and the Judean Popular front!
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Post by overthetop on Sept 3, 2014 6:13:23 GMT
No, 21 people met, because they thought they knew better than the multi million pound owner.
21 people met because they felt they were better than the trust.
21 people met and then sent a signed dictat out to the plebs to call for action - btw Henry wasn't one of the signees as I believe he refused to attend.
21 unelected, unrepresentative and bitter (some were ex employees, one was even a Leeds fan) people met and then shouted 'look at us, look at our history, listen to what we have said, follow us to the promised land'.
21 people were then called out by a few posters on CL as to their motives and actions and the balloon began to deflate. The leader then posted his hypocritical ST Boycott thread and was again called out.
I'd love to know who would sign that dictat this time round. Even the the Prague Pratt would probably have second thoughts.
Can anyone find the link to the G21 thread on here to CL as it was such an amusing read watching the group squirm trying to justify their actions.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 6:47:37 GMT
No, 21 people met, because they thought they knew better than the multi million pound owner. 21 people met because they felt they were better than the trust. 21 people met and then sent a signed dictat out to the plebs to call for action - btw Henry wasn't one of the signees as I believe he refused to attend. 21 unelected, unrepresentative and bitter (some were ex employees, one was even a Leeds fan) people met and then shouted 'look at us, look at our history, listen to what we have said, follow us to the promised land'. 21 people were then called out by a few posters on CL as to their motives and actions and the balloon began to deflate. The leader then posted his hypocritical ST Boycott thread and was again called out. I'd love to know who would sign that dictat this time round. Even the the Prague Pratt would probably have second thoughts. Can anyone find the link to the G21 thread on here to CL as it was such an amusing read watching the group squirm trying to justify their actions. www.charltonlife.com/discussion/60704/statement-from-supporters-meeting/p1
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 6:58:57 GMT
That's because you love it here rikofold, I am like the Pied Piper go on admit it, people are just drawn to me like a magnet!! Like a car crash ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 7:02:28 GMT
I don't think there is any way back for RE at Charlton to be honest which is the way it should be. RD didn't build up a multi million pound fortune based on help, advice and ideas from other people. No-one builds up big businesses on their own either.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 7:16:04 GMT
No, 21 people met, because they thought they knew better than the multi million pound owner. 21 people met because they felt they were better than the trust. 21 people met and then sent a signed dictat out to the plebs to call for action - btw Henry wasn't one of the signees as I believe he refused to attend. 21 unelected, unrepresentative and bitter (some were ex employees, one was even a Leeds fan) people met and then shouted 'look at us, look at our history, listen to what we have said, follow us to the promised land'. 21 people were then called out by a few posters on CL as to their motives and actions and the balloon began to deflate. The leader then posted his hypocritical ST Boycott thread and was again called out. I'd love to know who would sign that dictat this time round. Even the the Prague Pratt would probably have second thoughts. Can anyone find the link to the G21 thread on here to CL as it was such an amusing read watching the group squirm trying to justify their actions. I was vocal about the G21 on CL, not that they felt the need to meet but that they felt they ought to portray themselves in the way that they did, particularly when it seemed to cut across what CASTrust were about. I disagreed with Rick, Steve et al then on that, and I've told them the same. However, to be fair to them their concerns were well-founded based on what was going on at the club at the time, and that was information from the horse's mouths. I have no issue that a group of talented and well-connected supporters wanted to discuss how they might be proactive at a time when it appeared there was a genuine threat to the very identity of the club, one that many at the meeting had previously fought a long battle for. They decided to be patient and see how things turned out over the summer. A sea change in transfer activity and communications coming from the club may have eased some of those concerns, and certainly things feel a lot different today than the early weeks of RD's reign. A personal view is that he's come to understand more of what he actually bought, and the opportunity Charlton offers him. I'm still cautious myself, actually, although feeling much less uncomfortable than I was. We don't know how Peeters will turn out, we don't really know how the squad will cope with the rigours of a Championship season and despite the veneer of decent communications at last we still don't know RD's strategic plan for the club. And in particular his exit plan, which is a pretty key consideration.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 7:55:28 GMT
I was there at the time on the inside and "G21" chose to ignore a supporters organisation with over 1,000 members and 5,000 contacts because they did not want to subsume their identity into a bigger fan based body. In reality the supporters body had weeks not days to make statements and it is indicative of the egos and immaturity that some elements blinked. The club did not blink! I could quote emails sent by Rick Everett... I could post the email I sent to the puppet from Prague! It's not pretty but three members of the Trust board came back to me and said "nice one"! I can respect Reams position because he has never pretended to support this collective. On the other hand Henry, Prague and Airman did.. Until it doesn't suit their egos and agendas. I left the Trust board when I did because the landscape evolved such that I could add nothing...also I was busy with work and family...and I calculated that everything would be determined by whether we stayed up or not... Had we gone down we were in a war zone! Had I stayed it would have gotten extremely messy and quite destructive...in answer to a criticism above which I hear very clearly, one cannot build a fans collective with a relationship with the club if individuals are going after personal targets and trying to score points, particularly if they act in a maverick fashion with no accountability. I'll say it again, I don't care what people did in the last century, if they attack the club and owner when a failing manager was being replaced; if they propose season ticket boycotts against my/our club without consulting fans, if they poor vitriol on the management team then they can can fuck off to Ebbsfleet and join their non-league mates. People with knowledge and connections have a responsibility to act in a mature fashion to help build our club - simples Superb post. I'd have a lot more confidence in the Trust if you were still involved in running it, SR.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 8:06:11 GMT
despite the veneer of decent communications at last we still don't know RD's strategic plan for the club. And in particular his exit plan, which is a pretty key consideration. I don't know what this obsession is with exit plans! I don;t suppose RD knows or even has one. Nor should he. He only bought the club eight or nine months ago and he had a three-tier plan when he did so:- 1. Short-term : to escape relegation 2. Medium-term : to build a side that can compete in the Championship 3. Long-term: to re-establish CAFC as a Premiership club The first was achieved, the second is a work on which he appears to have made considerable progress and the third we shall have to wait and see. All three had an underlying principle, too - to do so prudently and strategically, maximise resources and not to spend recklessly and plunge the club into a life-threatening mountain of debt. Whast's not to like? Why does there have to be a fourth objective in which he plans to sell up and gets the fuck out of it - and why is that a "key consideration"? As for CAFC's communications strategy, it is currently the best it has been in the 50 years I've been following the club. See KM's statement re. transfer deadline day for a recent excellent example.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 8:21:48 GMT
I was there at the time on the inside and "G21" chose to ignore a supporters organisation with over 1,000 members and 5,000 contacts because they did not want to subsume their identity into a bigger fan based body. In reality the supporters body had weeks not days to make statements and it is indicative of the egos and immaturity that some elements blinked. The club did not blink! I could quote emails sent by Rick Everett... I could post the email I sent to the puppet from Prague! It's not pretty but three members of the Trust board came back to me and said "nice one"! I can respect Reams position because he has never pretended to support this collective. On the other hand Henry, Prague and Airman did.. Until it doesn't suit their egos and agendas. I left the Trust board when I did because the landscape evolved such that I could add nothing...also I was busy with work and family...and I calculated that everything would be determined by whether we stayed up or not... Had we gone down we were in a war zone! Had I stayed it would have gotten extremely messy and quite destructive...in answer to a criticism above which I hear very clearly, one cannot build a fans collective with a relationship with the club if individuals are going after personal targets and trying to score points, particularly if they act in a maverick fashion with no accountability. I'll say it again, I don't care what people did in the last century, if they attack the club and owner when a failing manager was being replaced; if they propose season ticket boycotts against my/our club without consulting fans, if they poor vitriol on the management team then they can can fuck off to Ebbsfleet and join their non-league mates. People with knowledge and connections have a responsibility to act in a mature fashion to help build our club - simples Superb post. I'd have a lot more confidence in the Trust if you were still involved in running it, SR. Except it's a post filled with his own vitriol pouring, so it's going to be superb if you share the same views of the personalities involved isn't it? Come off it SR. It's not a given that a new board are going to be good for the club, and there was genuine cause for concern given the stories coming out of the club at the time regarding the behaviour of the owner and his attitude to the club and its fans. "Attack the club and owner", "a failing manager", "without consulting fans", "poor [sic] vitriol" etc. All inflammatory and subjective language with little substance presented as fact . Your previous interminable defence of TJ/Slater doesn't exactly fill one with confidence when it comes to your judgement, so you'll forgive me for holding sympathy for those who exercise a little caution when the next owner came along, sold our two best players and sacked a manager who 18 months previously had smashed 13 club records. Of course Airman is more militant by nature, and certainly the season ticket boycott thread lacked judgement given his personal context - although that undoubtedly overwhelmed what he actually said in that post - but you do know that the club's good is at his heart and it's not right to caricature him otherwise. It's easy to snipe, and in doing so you're no better than the two or three folks you're disparaging. I agree that the G21 got their approach and comms all wrong, but that doesn't invalidate their reasons for gathering nor their own discussions. And neither does the fact you don't like the personalities involved.
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