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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 27, 2014 14:25:05 GMT
Looks like their campaign is back on to increase their numbers. My rallying call to Charlton fans is don't bother, you already have a voice that you can express at matches if and when things are not going well. Until then keep your money in your pocket, RD laughs at these guys so I encourage you to do the same. Join the Charlton Athletic Supporters’ Trust:With enough Full and Junior Members CAS Trust can represent you the fans, and have a say in the future and day to day running of CAFC, so please sign up today - together we can make a difference. CAS Trust is the Addicks’ Trust.www.castrust.org/join/?_s2member_vars=page..level..2..page..193..L21lbWJlcnMvYWdtLw%3D%3D&_s2member_sig=1409149110-087eb381f70db3919fb003a0c21e26f5WHAT A JOKE! HOW CAN YOU HAVE A SAY IN THE DAY TO DAY RUNNING OF SOMEBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS? DON'T ALLOW YOURSELVES TO BE CONNED, KEEP YOUR MONEY IN YOUR POCKET AND YOUR VOICE FOR A MATCHDAY!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 16:30:52 GMT
I can't agree with this Reams (and i'm not a member of the trust) In the beginning !! The trust did appear to be the voice of anti-Duchatelet. I think all of us, including the members of the trust, can see RD is not the devil we were encouraged to believe. However, there is room for a trust at Charlton. It does provide a voice for the supporters. It doesn't claim to speak for all, but it does speak from the supporters viewpoint. 'Bury the hatchet' Reams. Let the guys in the trust do what they genuinely believe is right. One day we may be glad they are there.
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Post by webbo on Aug 27, 2014 16:34:28 GMT
It costs a whopping £5 a year. Trusts are well established at clubs of all kinds up and down the land. It is not a con because there are no scams or tricks involved, if you don't want to join then fair enough. Having a say is not the same as having control, you'd have to be stupid not to realise that. I disagree (and await a personal attack I suppose), but I reckon joining the Charlton trust is a good thing overall if only because a Trust might be the only game in town if things go badly in the future.
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Post by canterburyaddick on Aug 27, 2014 16:36:03 GMT
Sorry mate think you're wrong here. I'm happy to spend a fiver to hedge my bets thanks. I honestly can't see what harm the trust does and overall it's a good idea. I'm not interested in nor do I know the personalities and posters such as seriouslyred make a good case in my view. I feel this has got to do with personalities and CL for you Paul. I don't even look at CL. Please don't delete this post, as I have an inkling previous posts in support of the trust may have been removed (hope I'm wrong). As to whether someone can have a say in anyone else's business - well clearly you're not regulated by the FCA - (eh JK?) In addition supporters can vote with their feet or their wallets. Ultimately we are clients of CAFC, if I don't turn up RD loses money. If 1000 people don't turn up he loses more simple really. Therefore RD is more likely to take notice of the trust than me - worth a fiver IMO.
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Post by webbo on Aug 27, 2014 16:41:09 GMT
The funny thing is up to a week ago I always got to 'into the valley' via a link on the trust website...their 'hub' page. The page doesn't link to this site any more for some reason, so could it be that the controllers of this site are a bit miffed?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 17:03:58 GMT
The funny thing is up to a week ago I always got to 'into the valley' via a link on the trust website...their 'hub' page. The page doesn't link to this site any more for some reason, so could it be that the controllers of this site are a bit miffed? Webbo, it may have had something to do with the thread below, though I could be very wrong with that assumption. intothevalley.proboards.com/thread/15832/more-cast-threads-posts-editedThey have been very quiet since the G21 put their heads above the Portable tent last March demanding a meeting with the board, but after telling the G21 to go away I will renew my membership next month and give them the benefit of the doubt for another year.
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Post by fuzzydunlop on Aug 27, 2014 17:04:56 GMT
Quick question for you Reams. Is it all football club supporter's trusts that you dislike or just ours? I don't really see what harm they do. Yes they have made mistakes in the past and like everyone else, they will do in the future. I just really struggle to understand what it is about them that appears to bring out so much hatred.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 27, 2014 17:35:36 GMT
I can't agree with this Reams (and i'm not a member of the trust) In the beginning !! The trust did appear to be the voice of anti-Duchatelet. I think all of us, including the members of the trust, can see RD is not the devil we were encouraged to believe. However, there is room for a trust at Charlton. It does provide a voice for the supporters. It doesn't claim to speak for all, but it does speak from the supporters viewpoint. 'Bury the hatchet' Reams. Let the guys in the trust do what they genuinely believe is right. One day we may be glad they are there. Mate the TRUST can do whatever they want and good luck to them if they think they are doing what is right but I don't support it and never will which is why I am calling for other fans to do the same.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 27, 2014 17:37:59 GMT
The funny thing is up to a week ago I always got to 'into the valley' via a link on the trust website...their 'hub' page. The page doesn't link to this site any more for some reason, so could it be that the controllers of this site are a bit miffed? Not at all mate, was there a link to here on there? News to me, I don't recall them asking my permission. This is news to me so if it has been deleted then I'm fine with that as I don't want this forum associated with them in any way shape or form.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 27, 2014 17:39:51 GMT
Korky don't try and be a smart arse fella it doesn't suit you.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 27, 2014 17:51:09 GMT
I will quote what they are saying again to advertise what they offer:
If you don't think that is false advertising then tell me what is?
Can any of you not see that there is no way on this earth that the TRUST will ever get near squeaking or uttering a word that has anything to do with the day to day running of the club.
To answer your question fuzzy, it's TRUSTS in general that I don't have much time for. The one at Swansea is great, the one here in Wrexham is shite so you have both ends of the scales there.
It all boils down to how it is run, how many members there are and how well it is supported.
Ours was set up for all the wrong reasons and had a little burst of pace when RD came in based on suspicion. The problem they face now is that RD has turned the club around and given us fans the feel factor back, we have light at the end of the tunnel and the hope has returned which is bad news for what the trust are hoping to but will never achieve.
This statement from them today comes in the wake of improved performances on the pitch and a better run club off it both of which are preventing more people joining the TRUST and current members renewing.
No need for the witch hunt on here like there always is when I stoke up a bit of controversy.
I don't support the TRUST and ask others to do likewise. What they choose to do however is entirely up to them, it's a request not an order so wind your necks in.
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Post by villain on Aug 27, 2014 17:56:20 GMT
Reams. The Trust do not and have never expected to be involved in the running of Charlton Athletic. As you say it is someone else's business. That business does however have a need to engage with the fans. Without the fans the business is dead in the water. What the Trust seeks to do is act as a conduit between the club owners and officials to the benefit of both. The goals are by definition very well aligned already. That is not to say the Trust would not provide constructive criticism where it feels it is warranted.
I do not see why you do not consider this a desirable situation. All for a fiver a year. The strength of voice and the notice the club takes of us supporters will proportionately increase the more members the trust can get.
You stance is ill conceived. ill informed and looking very much like vindictiveness. I know not why.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 27, 2014 18:08:42 GMT
Reams. The Trust do not and have never expected to be involved in the running of Charlton Athletic. As you say it is someone else's business. That business does however have a need to engage with the fans. Without the fans the business is dead in the water. What the Trust seeks to do is act as a conduit between the club owners and officials to the benefit of both. The goals are by definition very well aligned already. That is not to say the Trust would not provide constructive criticism where it feels it is warranted. I do not see why you do not consider this a desirable situation. All for a fiver a year. The strength of voice and the notice the club takes of us supporters will proportionately increase the more members the trust can get. You stance is ill conceived. ill informed and looking very much like vindictiveness. I know not why. You are entitled to your opinion villain just as I am mine.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 19:32:16 GMT
Correct Reams you and all of us are entitled to an opinion. That doesn't mean you should denigrate those with a different opinion to yours. As i said previously 'bury the hatchet'
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 27, 2014 19:44:30 GMT
I don't think I am oldmod, I haven't offended anybody or come out with anything abusive.
I don't believe in them or the people who run it and I am entitled to ask people not to support them as much as they are in asking for support.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 19:50:29 GMT
Correct Reams you and all of us are entitled to an opinion. That doesn't mean you should denigrate those with a different opinion to yours. As i said previously 'bury the hatchet' It's an opinion on a forum. Because it's Reams forum does that make him a bigger target for the ITTV liberal Front? Worst things happening in the world than a post about a trust. Can a few of you go and grow a pair because I'm getting a bit bored with this nanny state mentality.
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Post by overthetop on Aug 27, 2014 21:25:06 GMT
No problems with Reams not supporting the Trust.
However, I just don't understand how a Charlton website owner can actively persue a negative agenda towards the Trust. Why not just leave it and let the indiviudal decide if you're so ambiguous towards the Trust?
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Post by valley89 on Aug 27, 2014 21:33:59 GMT
I don't think you should be telling us what we should and should not do with our money. That is not why we are a part of this forum
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 27, 2014 21:43:32 GMT
No problems with Reams not supporting the Trust. However, I just don't understand how a Charlton website owner can actively persue a negative agenda towards the Trust. Why not just leave it and let the indiviudal decide if you're so ambiguous towards the Trust? But isn't that what happens to me when the old chestnut of you don't go to games comes out? Don't I get told that to have an opinion I have to fork out hundreds of pounds to watch us every week? The individuals are deciding mate which is why they have sent out a rallying call to try and keep their numbers up. Like I keep saying I have my own voice which I am fully at liberty to have heard should I not be happy with events at the club. I don't like the individuals, I don't like what they represent and I don't like their aggressive approach telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing.
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Post by seriouslyred on Aug 27, 2014 21:54:27 GMT
Lads, as you know I do know a little about the Trust and may have a word on this particular promotion... As a founding board member I certainly never wanted a say in the "day to day running". You can't run anything except a cooperative like that and no sane senior manager at the club wants elected supporters overseeing their day to day work... So the club won't play ball on those terms! If you want to know what happens when supporters have access at this level just take a look at Henry Irving and Airman Brown! Involved in different ways and professing to support the club while pouring their scorn on senior staff as they try new initiatives to improve the place - opinions on every aspect of the club but no discipline and no view of the bigger picture. So rather than bad mouth the Trust it is absolutely essential that it is advised as to how it might negotiate a relationship with the new owner... Perhaps everything looks great this season ( and there are still some moaning about last year) but who's to know what happens in three years... I am only focused on Brighton and September games because we come out of that as either mid-table or play-off contenders...(and I am on for two grand in May if it's the latter!) But the gates are still the same as last season and we'll down on two years ago... As someone suggested, perhaps the Trust should simply ask "how can we help?"
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 27, 2014 22:29:15 GMT
Sanity at last seriouslyred and a thoroughly good read.
You have hit the nail on the head in terms of the "day to day running" of the club. The TRUST asked for a meeting, didn't get one so that statement comes across as if they are going to throw their weight around anyway, weight that carries no purpose to the owners of the club at all.
The TRUST should have got off the ground first and got up and running forming a firm membership base then asking them all to elect who they want to represent them, not self appoint because it was their idea in the first place.
In terms of the TRUST being advised as to how it might negotiate a relationship with the new owner....well I think that horse has bolted mate, purely based on how Razil and friends went about things in the first place which you have to admit was like a bull in a china shop.
Due to that RD isn't going to entertain a word they have to say i'm afraid, if there is one person you don't want to piss off it's the owner/chairman of the football club that you are trying to get your foot into the door of.
Going forward I am not sure that a lost cause trying to expand it's member base is going to achieve anything.....it certainly hasn't so far.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 23:45:21 GMT
Lads, as you know I do know a little about the Trust and may have a word on this particular promotion... As a founding board member I certainly never wanted a say in the "day to day running". You can't run anything except a cooperative like that and no sane senior manager at the club wants elected supporters overseeing their day to day work... So the club won't play ball on those terms! If you want to know what happens when supporters have access at this level just take a look at Henry Irving and Airman Brown! Involved in different ways and professing to support the club while pouring their scorn on senior staff as they try new initiatives to improve the place - opinions on every aspect of the club but no discipline and no view of the bigger picture. So rather than bad mouth the Trust it is absolutely essential that it is advised as to how it might negotiate a relationship with the new owner... Perhaps everything looks great this season ( and there are still some moaning about last year) but who's to know what happens in three years... I am only focused on Brighton and September games because we come out of that as either mid-table or play-off contenders...(and I am on for two grand in May if it's the latter!) But the gates are still the same as last season and we'll down on two years ago... As someone suggested, perhaps the Trust should simply ask "how can we help?" It was me who said that the Trust should ask the club 'how can we help?' rather than trying to act like it's some kind of regulator or ombudsman with a mission to protect 'proper Charlton' (whatever that is) from unscrupulous foreigners - so unsurprisingly I like the way seriouslyred talks. I haven't joined the Trust myself but I would be open to persuasion if I thought they were following the course suggested above. The problem is that they do seem to have made some schoolboy errors, which have been a serious obstacle to some of us joining. The Trust handled the Powell/RD/G21 situations with staggering ineptitude and they are clearly still getting it wrong with the daft claim that "CAS Trust can represent you the fans, and have a say in the future and day to day running of CAFC." Who wrote that delusional drivel and why did the Trust board approve it? Because it is precisely the kind of ludicrous, self-important grandstanding that does nothing to dispel the scepticism of people like myself. I must also say seriosulyred's critique of Hayes and Everitt (Henry Irving and Airman Brown) is spot on: "opinions on every aspect of the club but no discipline and no view of the bigger picture." But I'm still looking for evidence that those who run the Trust have got more discipline and self-awarness than those two self-absorbed egotists have shown down the years. No doubt the club is looking for that evidence, too, because those who actually run CAFC must have been totally scared off the notion of 'fan involvement' by the selfish and boorish behaviour of Hayes when he was the fan's rep on the board and Everitt's reckless irresponsibility.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 7:05:33 GMT
that was going to be my exact comment, they can squeak all they want. The whole thing stinks of self importance, "join us we will take for you". questions for the trust - what does the fiver get you ? where are the accounts ? who are the "elected" , sorry self appointed busy bodies running the trust ? who is the trustee ? where does the fiver go ie bank account ? what is the mission statement ? what is the business plan ? where does my "voice" get heard ? where do we vote for voiced opinions ? where does the trust meet ? where are the minutes from the last meetings ? whom from the CLUB has attended the trusts meetings ? I think once "they" run the trust in a fit and proper fashion they may get more support, presently I see something like the scenes from the "Life of Brian" "what have the Romans (Roland ) done for us", Trust meeting in progress www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso "what happened to the popular front of Judea (Trust) " .....joining the trust .... www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZEThe trust as far as I can tell was set up as a witch hunt for RD based around the club moving grounds, this was ill founded, short sighted, a collaboration of whispers and rumors and blatant lies. I've not seen an apologie to RD, the amount of stick he took I'm surprised he didn't walk. Where were these guys with TJ and Slater ? no where ! Fiver safely in pocket for now.
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 8:02:36 GMT
I think Reams has made some valid points and I agree with him. For reasons mentioned above I also think the Trust are dividing not uniting Charlton fans and in the long term this could do more harm than good
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 8:35:34 GMT
I really don't understand why one group of supporters would want to jibe at, put down, undermine or campaign against another group of supporters from the same football club. It is getting silly Reams you have your opinion and are entitled to it. But why actively ask people to boycott something that you don't like for whatever reasons?
I get that you don't agree with their advertising campaign but asking others not to join is a bit much. Agree with them or not they are open to any Charlton supporter to join and everyone has the opportunity to voice their opinion, they speak for their member who are supporters, the more members they have the more they can speak for, if you don't want to be one of them absolutely fine, I personally think £5 a year is nothing and if it helps a supporters trust grow and gives fans an active voice, what harm could it do? As far as the running of the club is concerned, I think that merely meant that the more voices they have the more pull they're likely to have with the board , strength in numbers, it makes perfect sense.
Is there not enough hostility in the world without people with common interests fighting amongst themselves? We made jokes when Millwall fans were fighting each other at the den, is that what Charlton is becoming? We have this forum and a few others, the runners and hardcore members of each don't like the others, the trust again more supporters and this forum leader doesn't like them. I am actually starting to think it is getting a bit tribal "my members are more important than yours". "Your organisation is full of crap" "you speak for some but not for me" blah blah blah...who is the alpha supporter group?...who will come out on top?...
Ffs we all support Charlton Athletic Football Club, we all want results, we all want what is best so why fight amongst ourselves when we should be united. In my opinion that is all the trust is trying to do, unite supporters.
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Post by seriouslyred on Aug 28, 2014 8:35:40 GMT
Firstly I would state that if you're not making errors then your not working hard enough or fast enough. And that the Trust survey programme was designed to listen to fans, appearing to listen and guide the trust board on policy and direction. There doesn't appear to have been a Trust survey since I left the board in March! Despite all of the criticism received a Trust feedback survey run last November (before the first membership renewals were due) showed overwhelming support for the Trust direction...at that time. I won't answer individual criticisms here as I am no longer on the board and therefore not appropriate. What I will say is that the Trust believes that CAFC should be run in a sustainable fashion...and that there is an AGM in September where direction might be discussed and the accounts will be presented. How do I know this? Well I was the treasurer and even though I left just before the Trust year end, I did ensure that the books were in good order and ready to be reviewed by an external examiner and the Trust Board.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 8:50:06 GMT
I really don't understand why one group of supporters would want to jibe at, put down, undermine or campaign against another group of supporters from the same football club. It is getting silly Reams you have your opinion and are entitled to it. But why actively ask people to boycott something that you don't like for whatever reasons?I get that you don't agree with their advertising campaign but asking others not to join is a bit much. Agree with them or not they are open to any Charlton supporter to join and everyone has the opportunity to voice their opinion, they speak for their member who are supporters, the more members they have the more they can speak for, if you don't want to be one of them absolutely fine, I personally think £5 a year is nothing and if it helps a supporters trust grow and gives fans an active voice, what harm could it do? As far as the running of the club is concerned, I think that merely meant that the more voices they have the more pull they're likely to have with the board , strength in numbers, it makes perfect sense. Is there not enough hostility in the world without people with common interests fighting amongst themselves? We made jokes when Millwall fans were fighting each other at the den, is that what Charlton is becoming? We have this forum and a few others, the runners and hardcore members of each don't like the others, the trust again more supporters and this forum leader doesn't like them. I am actually starting to think it is getting a bit tribal "my members are more important than yours". "Your organisation is full of crap" "you speak for some but not for me" blah blah blah...who is the alpha supporter group?...who will come out on top?... Ffs we all support Charlton Athletic Football Club, we all want results, we all want what is best so why fight amongst ourselves when we should be united. In my opinion that is all the trust is trying to do, unite supporters. Just like the trust did when RD bough the club, IRC , dont re-new your season ticket ! them in glass houses and all that ! BTW, 1200 people do NOT represent the supporters of CAFC !
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 8:52:13 GMT
Firstly I would state that if you're not making errors then your not working hard enough or fast enough. And that the Trust survey programme was designed to listen to fans, appearing to listen and guide the trust board on policy and direction. There doesn't appear to have been a Trust survey since I left the board in March! Despite all of the criticism received a Trust feedback survey run last November (before the first membership renewals were due) showed overwhelming support for the Trust direction...at that time. I won't answer individual criticisms here as I am no longer on the board and therefore not appropriate. What I will say is that the Trust believes that CAFC should be run in a sustainable fashion...and that there is an AGM in September where direction might be discussed and the accounts will be presented. How do I know this? Well I was the treasurer and even though I left just before the Trust year end, I did ensure that the books were in good order and ready to be reviewed by an external examiner and the Trust Board. who are they and how were they appointed ? were the results of the voting published , as they should be in any democratic society.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 8:59:51 GMT
It was the G21 who done that. It is more than 1200 supporters there are about 7000 if you include unpaid members/email subscribers.
I am starting to think that some of you on here (4 People spring to mind) would drink bleach or jump off of a moving train if Reams told you it was a good idea.
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 9:21:39 GMT
It was the G21 who done that. It is more than 1200 supporters there are about 7000 if you include unpaid members/email subscribers. I am starting to think that some of you on here (4 People spring to mind) would drink bleach or jump off of a moving train if Reams told you it was a good idea. Like you would if Bin Laden had asked you to. Although thankfully due to American Special forces long after due blowing his brains out that will not happen until you are with him in heaven
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