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Post by villain on Aug 30, 2014 9:17:54 GMT
Correct Webbo. Exactly the type of mistakes regarding the trust that were being spouted by all and sundry on this thread yesterday evening and passed off as fact. I said it yesterday but much of the comment was based on lack of understanding and ignorance. Do you ever have anything useful to say? If you are an example of the 'Trust' mentality, you know where you can stick it. In fact, if I was involved in trying to sign up new members, I'd be asking you to button it. So I agree with a poster pointing out an error in the perception of the trust expressed by another poster which is exactly what I had been doing previously on this thread and you decide to attack me with those comments !!!!! I would suggest that it is you that have nothing constructive to say. For or the record. I am far from happy with the direction the trust appears to be heading but I am fully committed to the idea of a trust to act as a focal point and if god forbid a rallying point for the benefit of all Charlton supporters. I think it is a real shame that the obvious passion and ability that is shown by posters on this site cannot be harnessed in order to make CASTrust what you want it to be. I think think it's fair to say that Ream and the majority of this site are at best CASTrust skeptics and at worst completely hostile. if Reams were to consider Seriously Reds suggestion of involvement by even just using this site to gather views on how CASTrust should be working in a constructive way and put forward those views and suggestions to the Trust then I think that would be a very positive step in making the Trust representative of a larger group of fans that are not at all happy with the Charlton Life view of things. Into The Valley can play a big part in what happens to supporter representation. it should play a part.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 30, 2014 9:35:57 GMT
If the TRUST want my involvement they know where to find me.
I may be their biggest critic but they could change that if they used their heads because they won't find anybody anywhere who has so much in common with the clubs owners and manager.
I have been to Standard's Stadium and I am talking about in the away dressing room and away end, I know everything about the club, I know absolutely everything about Belgian football, my old man has played and managed against Anderlecht and Standard so there is absolutely nothing I don't know.
Given the chance I could sit down with Katrien, RD and Bob Peeters and start talking about all of the above and more, I could give them names of players they should look at and I would back myself every time that they would not let me walk away without wanting to use my knowledge and experience in some kind of capacity.
People might say that I am sounding Ackworthesque to which my reply would be somebody get me inside the club and I'll prove it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 10:08:17 GMT
With a good right hand man (diplomacy adviser) sorry Paul lol, I think Reams could run a Trust better than the current regime. Reason: More knowledge, more passion, attention to detail, not living in the past, and contrary to popular belief, he doesn't hold grudges and has the ability to admit when he is wrong.
Give people responsibility and they generally act in a responsible manner.
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Post by villain on Aug 30, 2014 10:17:07 GMT
Reams. I doubt many would question your football knowledge credentials. You have a platform to use that knowledge and to express your ideas in a constructive way. This forum is that platform. There is nothing to stop you putting forward those views and those of your posters directly to the trust. The channels are there. Not everything you say wil be accepted. I do not agree with some of your views but I do think you can and more importantly should have an input. It will ruffle feathers but when has that stopped you.
The trust are always seeking supporters views. They have to take notice of what comes out of the fan base or lose credibility. My view is that of Seriosly Reds. You should consider standing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 11:13:27 GMT
Can someone do a vote thingy on this?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 16:10:10 GMT
If the TRUST want my involvement they know where to find me. I may be their biggest critic but they could change that if they used their heads because they won't find anybody anywhere who has so much in common with the clubs owners and manager. I have been to Standard's Stadium and I am talking about in the away dressing room and away end, I know everything about the club, I know absolutely everything about Belgian football, my old man has played and managed against Anderlecht and Standard so there is absolutely nothing I don't know. Given the chance I could sit down with Katrien, RD and Bob Peeters and start talking about all of the above and more, I could give them names of players they should look at and I would back myself every time that they would not let me walk away without wanting to use my knowledge and experience in some kind of capacity. People might say that I am sounding Ackworthesque to which my reply would be somebody get me inside the club and I'll prove it. Gold, pure gold. And on so many different levels too. Well played.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 17:13:46 GMT
If the TRUST want my involvement they know where to find me. I may be their biggest critic but they could change that if they used their heads because they won't find anybody anywhere who has so much in common with the clubs owners and manager. I have been to Standard's Stadium and I am talking about in the away dressing room and away end, I know everything about the club, I know absolutely everything about Belgian football, my old man has played and managed against Anderlecht and Standard so there is absolutely nothing I don't know. Given the chance I could sit down with Katrien, RD and Bob Peeters and start talking about all of the above and more, I could give them names of players they should look at and I would back myself every time that they would not let me walk away without wanting to use my knowledge and experience in some kind of capacity. People might say that I am sounding Ackworthesque to which my reply would be somebody get me inside the club and I'll prove it. Gold, pure gold. And on so many different levels too. Well played. Oh dear, lonely boy needs another sarcasm fix.
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Post by seriouslyred on Aug 30, 2014 23:10:30 GMT
I like where this thread is going! The Trust is set up and waiting for a new direction in my opinion. There's a reason Airman Brown with his anti club rhetoric doesn't stand for the board and that is because half the Trust membership would leave overnight! And the club would have no problem refusing to talk to it forever while they focus on the first team and academy. If the Trust leadership evolves this season to meet the challenge of building a dialogue with the club then it might expand at the same rate as the early days. Right now it has not grown nor shrunk since I left in March. The third biggest Trust in the Championship is at the crossroads. Perhaps this site and the Trust could do some good work together?
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Post by webbo on Aug 31, 2014 18:39:39 GMT
I like where this thread is going! The Trust is set up and waiting for a new direction in my opinion. There's a reason Airman Brown with his anti club rhetoric doesn't stand for the board and that is because half the Trust membership would leave overnight!And the club would have no problem refusing to talk to it forever while they focus on the first team and academy. If the Trust leadership evolves this season to meet the challenge of building a dialogue with the club then it might expand at the same rate as the early days. Right now it has not grown nor shrunk since I left in March. The third biggest Trust in the Championship is at the crossroads. Perhaps this site and the Trust could do some good work together? I have bolded what you said there and it does not really make sense. AB may be many things, but he is not anti-club, he may have issues with individuals, or actions, but to suggest he is anti-Charlton is absurd, what he says may be rhetoric, but not against Charlton Athletic itself. I also don't know what evidence you have to suggest half the trust membership would leave overnight. Maybe your final idea of people working together ought to include a broader scope, and if AB is persona non grata for some reason then that togetherness is pretty exclusive.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 31, 2014 18:52:33 GMT
The club sacked him now he is just a fan like the rest of us, the sooner he realises that and stops thinking that the World owe's him something the better. In CAFC terms he's a has been and never will be.
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Post by webbo on Aug 31, 2014 20:12:16 GMT
How do you know that is what he thinks though? Yes he is a fan like the rest of us, which is why I think seriously red is wrong to imply he is anti the club.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 31, 2014 20:37:14 GMT
Well judging by his VOTV rants he might be a fan but he has a chip on his shoulder because of what happened to him.
Like I say if he's just a fan fine but there are thousands of fans out there who are happy just to be that without wanting to be important. He still lives in the past, he wants a leading role in something he's never going to have.
I applauded his part in the back to the Valley campaign but that was back then, it stands out like a sore thumb that he wants people at the club to know that hoping that he'll get invited to afternoon tea!
Sorry webbo but that's how he comes across almost like it was his club once.
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Post by webbo on Aug 31, 2014 21:04:25 GMT
reams I can obviously detect how vitriolic you feel towards Airman brown, and lots of others who are also Charlton supporters, and the basis for your vitriol seems to be suspicion that people get above themselves, and fancy themselves as special. It is for others to judge if a person really is special or not, not for the individual to say it about themselves. Like I can say I write verses, but it is down to others, not me, to declare I am actually a poet, or I can say I draw a bit, but it is up to others to say I am an artist...not me. So leaving aside your hatred of ego, is it not also possible to put into the equation what contributions people have made to soften your hatred? I see you have recognised the return to the Valley campaign work done in the past, does that not still count for something even now? I mean think how unfair it would be if Cardiff supporters damned every previous Cardiff manager if they hadn't led them to the top division. You well know that previous Cardiff managers deserve respect because of what they contributed in the past, and that contribution is honoured even in the present.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 21:32:42 GMT
reams I can obviously detect how vitriolic you feel towards Airman brown, and lots of others who are also Charlton supporters, and the basis for your vitriol seems to be suspicion that people get above themselves, and fancy themselves as special. It is for others to judge if a person really is special or not, not for the individual to say it about themselves. Like I can say I write verses, but it is down to others, not me, to declare I am actually a poet, or I can say I draw a bit, but it is up to others to say I am an artist...not me. So leaving aside your hatred of ego, is it not also possible to put into the equation what contributions people have made to soften your hatred? I see you have recognised the return to the Valley campaign work done in the past, does that not still count for something even now? I mean think how unfair it would be if Cardiff supporters damned every previous Cardiff manager if they hadn't led them to the top division. You well know that previous Cardiff managers deserve respect because of what they contributed in the past, and that contribution is honoured even in the present.
Spot on! I don't like rick, to be honest he's always been a bit stand offish to me and I have had a recent run in too. But, unlike rick I can give credit where credit is due, and him along with about 20 or so others, with their Valley Party campaign are partly who we have to thank for getting us out of exile. Also the work he done at Charlton and ideas he put into place such as football for a fiver have been excellent for all involved and I respect and thank him for that. You don't have to like someone to hear their points of view. You don't have to like what they say but it doesn't make it any less valid. Just like not liking those who are fronting the trust doesn't make the concept of one a bad thing.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 31, 2014 21:36:21 GMT
The along with about 20 others you refer to sadiejane, I take that as the G21 who have surfaced years later to put themselves forward for an imaginary hour of need which we all know not to be true.
webbo:
Not sure what a previous Cardiff manager has to do with what happened in a town hall not far from The Valley 20 odd years ago to be honest. Not sure how you can confuse Professionals with idiots.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 22:00:12 GMT
The along with about 20 others you refer to sadiejane, I take that as the G2 No reams not at all, the G21 was a group of people formed by rick I believe, with the use of 'valley party campaigners' as a way of earning respect where I know for a fact that the majority of the people actually running as candidates for the valley party such as my uncle were not only not invited to the meeting but wanted no part in it either. I'm not saying they were all frauds but they certainly weren't the soul representatives of the valley party.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 22:03:46 GMT
The along with about 20 others you refer to sadiejane, I take that as the G21 who have surfaced years later to put themselves forward for an imaginary hour of need which we all know not to be true. webbo: Not sure what a previous Cardiff manager has to do with what happened in a town hall not far from The Valley 20 odd years ago to be honest. Not sure how you can confuse Professionals with idiots. Are you seriously calling valley party candidates idiots?
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 31, 2014 22:03:52 GMT
Sadie, Rick Everitt and G21 are a joke, that's all I have to say about him/them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 22:11:20 GMT
Sadie, Rick Everitt and G21 are a joke, that's all I have to say about him/them. What's that got to do with anything? I asked you if you are calling the valley party candidates idiots?
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 31, 2014 22:17:30 GMT
No I was referring to Rick Everitt you know full well I was.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 31, 2014 22:19:41 GMT
Sadie, I'm not interested in The Valley Party to be honest.
I was grateful at the time and for many years after, but I'm not going to spend the rest of my life thanking them.
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Post by webbo on Aug 31, 2014 22:49:04 GMT
Sadie, I'm not interested in The Valley Party to be honest. I was grateful at the time and for many years after, but I'm not going to spend the rest of my life thanking them. Of course not. But the vitriol and hatred isn't tempered a bit by that latter day gratitude?
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Post by razil on Sept 1, 2014 0:42:57 GMT
We follow the democratic process laid down by Supporters Direct to the letter, we can't however force people to stand. I guess we should all ask why more don't stand, well you don't need to look too far to why.
The minutes of agm/sgm electoral process are on our website by the way.
We linked to ittv and all other sites with one or two exceptions and this site linked back to us at that stage if memory serves. If Reams would give permission I'd be more than happy to reinstate it.
There is no very recent recruitment drive or statement that I am aware of. But I will go and look at all the wording on the site though to make sure it's appropriate. We certainly have no intention of deceiving anyone and we try to lay out our aims and objectives as clearly as we can.
There is also a list of our achievements modest as they are.
Fans get 4 copies of TNT as part of their membership and that alone covers the fiver still making us cheaper than other fan papers. I think you will find the next edition an interesting read.
The Trust reached the substantial amount of its membership well before the takeover. So this RD stuff doesn't stack up I'm afraid.
We have been seeking positive engagement with CAFC since day 1 in summer/autumn 2012. Why because fans and then our members overwhelmingly said thats what they wanted. We have tried to avoid knee jerk publicity preferring to build a sustainable entity. And yes we've made mistakes.
I am perfectly comfortable with people having negative opinions un fact it can be useful, all i ask is we get a fair crack of the whip.
I'd come on here more often but frankly the unnecessary personal abuse on here isn't much of an incentive which is a shame for those who do genuinely want to argue either way and talk directly to any of us. Perhaps you the membership of ITTV should petition for a stronger policy on that.
I might add that unlike any other fan 'representation' at CAFC now or in the past we are accessible pretty much every match day on our stall. And I am always available on email and respond quickly, as anyone who has contacted us can tell you,
(Edit) that is not to detract from the hardwork of plenty of those fans on the FF who give up an awful lot of their time for things Charlton - I just mean to emphasise that we (at the Trust) are not a backroom clique.
The day to day comment is about the Match day Experience survey, which yes does/did allow fans to influence how Charlton is run on that level - this was achieved through the emergence of the Trust and the hard earned collaborative approach which then existed with the club management at the time.
Also to add on the consultation on around Season Tickets: we have never been in favour of the approach taken which was more of a focus group based on the Fans Forum (of which we are a member) that involves commercial confidentialities, and giving feedback to those. We were not party as SR says to the decisions made until the last minute, and these were swiftly reversed thankfully.
Finally we have met with Katrien on two occasions now, this is largely due to a recognition of to some of the research, and work we have done on Financial Fair Play, and other broad strategic interests of CAFC.
Swansea is an interesting example to quote, I believe they own 19.999% which I think may have some bearing in company law. Anyway they were born out of crisis and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but neither they nor Pompey are owned purely by average fans, they are a consortium. I might also add they have lower membership than us, and once had compulsory membership.
CAS Trust and fan democracy has not been gifted by the club, we have to work far harder than anyone prior to us, we have created this structure from scratch. Some of the group have moved on this year and we have some new members joining, some of their input has been colossal so they deserve a rest - but it was needed to get the thing off the ground.
I don't expect people to take our word for it and I think its right and healthy to question anyone in any kind of position - but I can assure you were are all in this for the right reasons, we are ordinary fans trying to do what we think is best for the club that we love. If anyone wants to come and talk to me I in person about what is wrong with the Trust please do so I. If you do believe in independent representation of any kind, and some of the detractors on here do seem to believe in that, then help the Trust be that, it will only ever be as good as the people that help it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 8:48:20 GMT
The along with about 20 others you refer to sadiejane, I take that as the G21 who have surfaced years later to put themselves forward for an imaginary hour of need which we all know not to be true. webbo: Not sure what a previous Cardiff manager has to do with what happened in a town hall not far from The Valley 20 odd years ago to be honest. Not sure how you can confuse Professionals with idiots. Are you seriously calling valley party candidates idiots? he must be a bit skint for this old chestnut to raise its published head again ,,,,, what is it , 20 years on ,,,,,, yawn - www.thanetgazette.co.uk/Addicks-addict-Rick-tells-tale-beloved-Charlton-s/story-21450779-detail/story.html
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 8:51:52 GMT
We follow the democratic process laid down by Supporters Direct to the letter, we can't however force people to stand. I guess we should all ask why more don't stand, well you don't need to look too far to why. That is apart from when board members are being "self appointed" sorry , "voted" onto the board. I've repeated here for the results of the "vote" , but nothing or no one has come forward with figures and candidates.
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razil
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Post by razil on Sept 1, 2014 8:56:12 GMT
We hold nominations as laid down in the model rules, these are published and available to members - we are community mutual and this is how it works. If there are not more nominations than Board positions available those persons are duly elected, and the Board then selects it's officers.
I am not sure what you think we can/should do differently? Or how you think it is self appointed.
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Post by razil on Sept 1, 2014 9:01:31 GMT
perhaps we aren't communicating this area effectively enough, I've asked the Secretary to look into this area today.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 10:55:24 GMT
We follow the democratic process laid down by Supporters Direct to the letter, we can't however force people to stand. I guess we should all ask why more don't stand, well you don't need to look too far to why. The minutes of agm/sgm electoral process are on our website by the way. We linked to ittv and all other sites with one or two exceptions and this site linked back to us at that stage if memory serves. If Reams would give permission I'd be more than happy to reinstate it. There is no very recent recruitment drive or statement that I am aware of. But I will go and look at all the wording on the site though to make sure it's appropriate. We certainly have no intention of deceiving anyone and we try to lay out our aims and objectives as clearly as we can. There is also a list of our achievements modest as they are. Fans get 4 copies of TNT as part of their membership and that alone covers the fiver still making us cheaper than other fan papers. I think you will find the next edition an interesting read. The Trust reached the substantial amount of its membership well before the takeover. So this RD stuff doesn't stack up I'm afraid. We have been seeking positive engagement with CAFC since day 1 in summer/autumn 2012. Why because fans and then our members overwhelmingly said thats what they wanted. We have tried to avoid knee jerk publicity preferring to build a sustainable entity. And yes we've made mistakes. I am perfectly comfortable with people having negative opinions un fact it can be useful, all i ask is we get a fair crack of the whip. I'd come on here more often but frankly the unnecessary personal abuse on here isn't much of an incentive which is a shame for those who do genuinely want to argue either way and talk directly to any of us. Perhaps you the membership of ITTV should petition for a stronger policy on that. I might add that unlike any other fan 'representation' at CAFC now or in the past we are accessible pretty much every match day on our stall. And I am always available on email and respond quickly, as anyone who has contacted us can tell you, (Edit) that is not to detract from the hardwork of plenty of those fans on the FF who give up an awful lot of their time for things Charlton - I just mean to emphasise that we (at the Trust) are not a backroom clique. The day to day comment is about the Match day Experience survey, which yes does/did allow fans to influence how Charlton is run on that level - this was achieved through the emergence of the Trust and the hard earned collaborative approach which then existed with the club management at the time. Also to add on the consultation on around Season Tickets: we have never been in favour of the approach taken which was more of a focus group based on the Fans Forum (of which we are a member) that involves commercial confidentialities, and giving feedback to those. We were not party as SR says to the decisions made until the last minute, and these were swiftly reversed thankfully. Finally we have met with Katrien on two occasions now, this is largely due to a recognition of to some of the research, and work we have done on Financial Fair Play, and other broad strategic interests of CAFC. Swansea is an interesting example to quote, I believe they own 19.999% which I think may have some bearing in company law. Anyway they were born out of crisis and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but neither they nor Pompey are owned purely by average fans, they are a consortium. I might also add they have lower membership than us, and once had compulsory membership. CAS Trust and fan democracy has not been gifted by the club, we have to work far harder than anyone prior to us, we have created this structure from scratch. Some of the group have moved on this year and we have some new members joining, some of their input has been colossal so they deserve a rest - but it was needed to get the thing off the ground. I don't expect people to take our word for it and I think its right and healthy to question anyone in any kind of position - but I can assure you were are all in this for the right reasons, we are ordinary fans trying to do what we think is best for the club that we love. If anyone wants to come and talk to me I in person about what is wrong with the Trust please do so I. If you do believe in independent representation of any kind, and some of the detractors on here do seem to believe in that, then help the Trust be that, it will only ever be as good as the people that help it. Once again...where's me fecking camera?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 11:12:12 GMT
Why not just scrap the TRUST and do what Inky does when he has issues with the club. Now this may seem a bit radical, but he emails RD and gets a reply.
If I'm missing the bigger picture please do enlighten me.
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Post by muttleycafc on Sept 1, 2014 11:26:04 GMT
I don’t know Airman, so what people say about him personally – both positively or negatively may be correct. But nobody can discount his record and the important part he has played in the club’s history – a) as Sadie mentioned in us getting back home and b) in his achievements whilst working for the club. To me he has shown that he is somebody who can put his money where his mouth is – yes maybe he can also put his mouth where he shouldn’t if he is going to be the perfect employee, but I think the owners could do worse than use his knowledge and skills in a positive way – it isn’t as if we don’t need his sort of ideas for building the fan base back up for instance.
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