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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 1, 2024 19:29:25 GMT
Hello all, new person here. I've followed both main forums for a while and thought I'd join in. Hope rather than expectation it would be nice when Dixons permit is approved we announce him Begovic and Potts. I'd be a bit more confident after the Wimbledon debacle. Would love to see NJ move heaven and earth to get Taylor and or Macatee on loan. He said a while back he wanted powerful athletic types I thought. Surprised we didn't have a go for Wiredu and Knibbs. Welcome to the madhouse!! |
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 1, 2024 19:33:31 GMT
We don't have wingers though, we have wing backs and I can't see Watson, Edwards, Ramsay or Small being coached to play in another position other than the one they are good at and that certainly won't be behind the two strikers. You don't coach players to play in different positions anyway, that comes with a natuaral flair to adapt into a different role. You can be the best 'box crasher' in the world but you need goals in you and while Berry will do a job for us I don't know how you can call him one of the best in the league given we haven't seen what other players at other clubs have to offer. I disagree with you on conceding goals being a bigger issue than it will scoring them simply because we have enough defensive minded midfielders to protect the back four while in comparison the strikers don't yet have players behind them who can engineer that second phase attack when the first one breaks down. Where did I say he was going to take a wing back and player them certainly? Most of the time at Luton he would bring in a player that was a winger and work with them to make them no8 or free role behind the two forwards a example Robert Snodgrass, Luke Freeman and Carlos Mendes Gomes. He would only do that in certain game most of the time it was two no8. He did the same at Southampton elyounoussi. Disagree about not coaching players to play in different positions . Some will just adopted naturally why other will need help and guidance. It will also depend on system and style. I have watched enough of Luke berry to know that he will be one of the best boxs crashing midfielders in the league and that is all that matters to us. He will get 8 to 10 goals and I'm not bothered if he is the best but he will do a blood good job for us that is all that matters. The only worry I have about him is he's injure record. Disagree about us defensively and goals won't be a problem. You said the below in one of your posts above. By the way whether he did the same at Southampton or not, it clearly didn't work. |
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Post by reddan12 on Aug 1, 2024 19:42:05 GMT
Where did I say he was going to take a wing back and player them certainly? Most of the time at Luton he would bring in a player that was a winger and work with them to make them no8 or free role behind the two forwards a example Robert Snodgrass, Luke Freeman and Carlos Mendes Gomes. He would only do that in certain game most of the time it was two no8. He did the same at Southampton elyounoussi. Disagree about not coaching players to play in different positions . Some will just adopted naturally why other will need help and guidance. It will also depend on system and style. I have watched enough of Luke berry to know that he will be one of the best boxs crashing midfielders in the league and that is all that matters to us. He will get 8 to 10 goals and I'm not bothered if he is the best but he will do a blood good job for us that is all that matters. The only worry I have about him is he's injure record. Disagree about us defensively and goals won't be a problem. You said the below in one of your posts above. By the way whether he did the same at Southampton or not, it clearly didn't work. I said a winger and gave a example someone like Tom Ince who has never played at wing back but has played as a winger and in free role behind the 2 fowards. I never said a wing back and we are in transfers windows so he can bring in a winger to work with to do the same as he did at Luton, Stoke and Southampton. |
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Post by reddan12 on Aug 1, 2024 19:43:40 GMT
This is the top and bottom of it. I respect other people's opinions but talk of Campbell as a 10 or Dixon even starting games before Xmas is surely shared in hope rather than expectation. It's so long ago since we had a CAM who scores goals and it goes hand in hand with why no midfielder has got into double figures from the middle of the park for donkeys years. We can pack the midfield with as many workmanlike players as you care to put in there but the work has to have an end product which is goals. We have more players who are more likely to go backwards with the ball at present than we have those who will push forward into the final third. Fands putting the amount of responsibility they are doing onto the young shoulders of Dixon before he's even got his vias is a hard read to be honest. It will take him 3-6 months to adapt to the pace and physicality of the English game. He's Kaheim Dixon not Lamine Yamal. Same goes for Tyreece, I hope he steps up but is final ball and execution at the business end of the pitch is lacking. It does not have to be Dixon or Campbell. But they are the only wingers at the club at the moment. It will most likely be a winger that gets coached in to be more of no8 or in free role behind the front 2 or to make front 3. Examples Someone like Tom Ince. Is there a problem with the build up structure? This is a workman like team you have to make forward runs to make space for others. We have one of the best box's crashing midfielders in the league in Luke Berry. Who is is also very good at operating in between the lines. Goals won't be a problem but not keeping clean sheets will be. The no6 is the key to how we progress going forward. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 1, 2024 19:54:33 GMT
You said the below in one of your posts above. By the way whether he did the same at Southampton or not, it clearly didn't work. I said a winger and gave a example someone like Tom Ince who has never played at wing back but has played as winger and in free role behind the 2 fowards. I never said a wing back and we are in transfers windows so he can bring in a winger to work with to do the same as he did at Luton, Stoke and Southampton. No such thing as a winger anymore mate, it's wing backs nowadays. We have enough of those so don't need anymore so why not just bring in a player who is a CAM and be done with it, leave the coaching out of it? I do hope though that he doesn't try to replicate what he did at Stoke and Southampton because it got him the sack - twice. I get what you mean by identifying the no.6 role as the key to us going forward because that position is primarily associated with defensive midfielders and central midfielders acting as the engine room of the team, providing a solid defensive foundation while also contributing to the team's attacking play. I'm sure we have all we need from those players defensively but Im not alone thinking that not one of them can achieve the latter effectively enough. Anyway I'm going around in circles and imagine starting to do people's heads in so I'll leave it there. |
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Post by reddan12 on Aug 1, 2024 20:22:40 GMT
I said a winger and gave a example someone like Tom Ince who has never played at wing back but has played as winger and in free role behind the 2 fowards. I never said a wing back and we are in transfers windows so he can bring in a winger to work with to do the same as he did at Luton, Stoke and Southampton. Why bring in a winger like om Ince and 'coach' him into playing behind the strikers at the age of 32? He's played in the attacking midfielder role previously so the levels of coaching would be minimul. Why not just bring in a player who is a CAM and be done with it, leave the coaching out of it? I do hope though that he doesn't try to replicate what he did at Stoke and Southampton because it got him the sack - twice. I get what you mean by identifying the no.6 role as the key to us going forward because that position is primarily associated with defensive midfielders and central midfielders acting as the engine room of the team, providing a solid defensive foundation while also contributing to the team's attacking play. I'm sure we have all we need from those players defensively but Im not alone thinking that not one of them can achieve the latter effectively enough. Anyway I'm going around in circles and imagine starting to do people's heads in so I'll leave it there. Tom Ince was a example and he already worked with the player at other clubs and used him that role. I'm not saying we need to bring him in but someone who is similar to what he could offer. A player that is capable of playing on both sides of the pitch. Working in areas where they are isolated. If they can play other roles so it gives us more versatility to play a front 3, playing a free role no10 or be able to play as no8. Ball carrying agility |
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Post by reddan12 on Aug 1, 2024 20:26:05 GMT
I said a winger and gave a example someone like Tom Ince who has never played at wing back but has played as winger and in free role behind the 2 fowards. I never said a wing back and we are in transfers windows so he can bring in a winger to work with to do the same as he did at Luton, Stoke and Southampton. No such thing as a winger anymore mate, it's wing backs nowadays. We have enough of those so don't need anymore so why not just bring in a player who is a CAM and be done with it, leave the coaching out of it? I do hope though that he doesn't try to replicate what he did at Stoke and Southampton because it got him the sack - twice. I get what you mean by identifying the no.6 role as the key to us going forward because that position is primarily associated with defensive midfielders and central midfielders acting as the engine room of the team, providing a solid defensive foundation while also contributing to the team's attacking play. I'm sure we have all we need from those players defensively but Im not alone thinking that not one of them can achieve the latter effectively enough. Anyway I'm going around in circles and imagine starting to do people's heads in so I'll leave it there. Lot of teams play wingers we don't but others do. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 1, 2024 20:34:28 GMT
Why bring in a winger like om Ince and 'coach' him into playing behind the strikers at the age of 32? He's played in the attacking midfielder role previously so the levels of coaching would be minimul. Why not just bring in a player who is a CAM and be done with it, leave the coaching out of it? I do hope though that he doesn't try to replicate what he did at Stoke and Southampton because it got him the sack - twice. I get what you mean by identifying the no.6 role as the key to us going forward because that position is primarily associated with defensive midfielders and central midfielders acting as the engine room of the team, providing a solid defensive foundation while also contributing to the team's attacking play. I'm sure we have all we need from those players defensively but Im not alone thinking that not one of them can achieve the latter effectively enough. Anyway I'm going around in circles and imagine starting to do people's heads in so I'll leave it there. Tom Ince was a example and he already worked with the player at other clubs and used him that role. I'm not saying we need to bring him in but someone who is similar to what he could offer. A player that is capable of playing on both sides of the pitch. Working in areas where they are isolated. If they can play other roles so it gives us more versatility to play a front 3, playing a free role no10 or be able to play as no8. Ball carrying agility So a CAM then as I keep saying, one who can go forwards, backwards and sideways covering every blade of grass as a box to box midfielder. He doesn't have to be direct, he can take the scenic route but a CAM ticks all of the boxes you mention without over complicating it. A L1 version of Jude Bellingham is what we need. |
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Post by reddan12 on Aug 1, 2024 21:01:07 GMT
Tom Ince was a example and he already worked with the player at other clubs and used him that role. I'm not saying we need to bring him in but someone who is similar to what he could offer. A player that is capable of playing on both sides of the pitch. Working in areas where they are isolated. If they can play other roles so it gives us more versatility to play a front 3, playing a free role no10 or be able to play as no8. Ball carrying agility So a CAM then as I keep saying, one who can go forwards, backwards and sideways covering every blade of grass as a box to box midfielder. He doesn't have to be direct, he can take the scenic route but a CAM ticks all of the boxes you mention without over complicating it. I would say a versatile forward is someone that can operate in any forward areas, good out wide and is direct. They have football brain can also adjust to be used as a no8 or in free role behind the forwards. What you are describing is a no8 box to boxs midfielder that is different from a CAM and different from what I'm talking about. But I guess it's whatever you want it be. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 1, 2024 21:22:51 GMT
With respect I know what Im describing thanks mate.
We already have the versatile forward you mention in Godden. It's why he's here because of his work rate outside of the box that May didn't possess. This is why need need more goals from all over the pitch to compensate for the contribution Alfie would have made.
Think you are getting bogged down by numbers, 6, 8, 10 etc. Football really isn't that tactical, it's only as complicated as you want to make it at the end of the day. Let's not go down the road of American Football when you have 60 players on each side all with a different position.
A box-to-box midfielder is a CAM no matter which way you look at it. He isn't going to be attacking all of the time, he's only becomes box to box with the ball to feet when we are in possession. When defending he drops back in a more defensive role but that can change in an instant when we clear our lines and go on the counter with the player in that role carrying the ball from one box to the other going as far as he can looking for options on the way. If there isn't one that's when he'll look to have an attempt himself.
They are not two different positions.
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Post by blockjcafc on Aug 1, 2024 21:34:39 GMT
We should look at Plymouth’s Callum Wright. Scores goals, lots of energy and doesn’t always play for Plymouth.
I think we will end up getting Allan Campbell
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Post by Mundell on Aug 1, 2024 21:34:58 GMT
Interesting discussions today. I’m in danger of repeating what I said earlier in the day but there’s an aspect of what’s going on with the squad build that might be worth reflecting on.
My sense is that Nathan Jones is not looking to outpass or outplay teams this season. He’s looking to over power them. He’s not looking to unlock opposing defences. He’s looking to batter them down. He’s looking for power, pace and aggression to overcome subtlety and guile. He’s not looking to play out from the back. Instead, he wants his central defenders to be aggressive and attack the ball. An exception to this general approach might be the pivot, who’ll need to read the game well, control space and move the ball on. The pivot won’t be expected to ape George Dobson’s Hollywood tackles, but to hold their position. However, I don’t expect either Coventry or Taylor to have much licence to get forward. That might suit Taylor better than Coventry. It’s a big season for both.
My take is that our player trading activity needs to be seen in this context. We probably won’t be much fun to play against, or even to watch, but if the game plan works we’ll score goals of all types, by anyone and from anywhere. This is the bit that’s very much uncertain though. When Jones arrived last season our Xg against quickly improved (even if we continued to lose goals to unforced errors), but our Xg for went backwards and this obviously needs to change and improve.
I may be reading too much into what happened last season, but I think Anderson and Kanu will get more minutes than the consensus seems to expect simply because they are archetypical Jones players. Dixon, by contrast, appears to be a bit of an outlier. Perhaps he’s an option in games we’re dominating but can’t score or where we simply need to roll the dice because Plan A has come up short? I suspect he’ll play less than Anderson even if he’s the better long term prospect.
Just one perspective. It’s going to be an interesting and hopefully entertaining season.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 1, 2024 21:39:05 GMT
Great post Chris. See you at the Orient game hopefully!
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Post by reddan12 on Aug 1, 2024 21:52:18 GMT
With respect I know what Im describing thanks mate. We already have the versatile forward you mention in Godden. It's why he's here because of his work rate outside of the box that May didn't possess. This is why need need more goals from all over the pitch to compensate for the contribution Alfie would have made. Think you are getting bogged down by numbers, 6, 8, 10 etc. Football really isn't that tactical, it's only as complicated as you want to make it at the end of the day. Let's not go down the road of American Football when you have 60 players on each side all with a different position. A box-to-box midfielder is a CAM no matter which way you look at it. He isn't going to be attacking all of the time, he's only becomes box to box with the ball to feet when we are in possession. When defending he drops back in a more defensive role but that can change in an instant when we clear our lines and go on the counter with the player in that role carrying the ball from one box to the other going as far as he can looking for options on the way. If there isn't one that's when he'll look to have an attempt himself. They are not two different positions.
Sorry but I total disagree with you Godden is a finisher with a good work rate but he not going to be someone who takes on there man and works in tight areas of the pitch. A versatile forward for me is someone that can play anywhere in front areas of the pitch out wide or behind the striker. Matt Godden is definitely not that he work he's ass off is better than may outside the box's with the ball but he he is not going to take players and be able to work in areas that he is isolated in. I'm not get bogged down by anything. A box's to box midfielder is no8 there traits will determine what type of no8 they are. A CAM is natural no10 We don't play with a no10 that will only be in game where he feels he needs to make a change because it's not working . |
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Post by reddan12 on Aug 1, 2024 22:05:17 GMT
Interesting discussions today. I’m in danger of repeating what I said earlier in the day but there’s an aspect of what’s going on with the squad build that might be worth reflecting on. My sense is that Nathan Jones is not looking to outpass or outplay teams this season. He’s looking to over power them. He’s not looking to unlock opposing defences. He’s looking to batter them down. He’s looking for power, pace and aggression to overcome subtlety and guile. He’s not looking to play out from the back. Instead, he wants his central defenders to be aggressive and attack the ball. An exception to this general approach might be the pivot, who’ll need to read the game well, control space and move the ball on. The pivot won’t be expected to ape George Dobson’s Hollywood tackles, but to hold their position. However, I don’t expect either Coventry or Taylor to have much licence to get forward. That might suit Taylor better than Coventry. It’s a big season for both. My take is that our player trading activity needs to be seen in this context. We probably won’t be much fun to play against, or even to watch, but if the game plan works we’ll score goals of all types, by anyone and from anywhere. This is the bit that’s very much uncertain though. When Jones arrived last season our Xg against quickly improved (even if we continued to lose goals to unforced errors), but our Xg for went backwards and this obviously needs to change and improve. I may be reading too much into what happened last season, but I think Anderson and Kanu will get more minutes than the consensus seems to expect simply because they are archetypical Jones players. Dixon, by contrast, appears to be a bit of an outlier. Perhaps he’s an option in games we’re dominating but can’t score or where we simply need to roll the dice because Plan A has come up short? I suspect he’ll play less than Anderson even if he’s the better long term prospect. Just one perspective. It’s going to be an interesting and hopefully entertaining season. I would say that is bang on the money |
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 1, 2024 22:24:15 GMT
Let's agree to disagree and I'll bow to your superior knowledge if it means we can stop going around in circles.
Your posting style is very much like a former member on here ubedizzy, he was never wrong either.
For as long as I have a hole in my arse, a modern day 10 operates in both halves not just the oppenents. Players in that role have in possession and out of possesion responsibilities. They can be a 10 slightly further up the pitch or become a box-to-box player who looks for the ball in a deeper position and seeks to to turn defence into attack on the counter.
The role of 10 involves far more than just creating for others with on-the-ball actions. Movements into the penalty area to support the centre forward(s) are important, as well as moving out wide and into the inside channels to support a winger or full-back. They should help create wide overloads, to get teammates into spaces to cross. They often drop deeper centrally to receive too, especially when there is little space between the lines.
Out of possession the modern number 10 has far more defensive responsibility than what they used to have. It's no longer seen as a free role. They will often push forward to press the opposition centre-backs or move to defend in wide areas. Often, they will directly engage and duel with opposing full-backs high up the pitch. They also plays a key screening role to try and block access into the opposition's pivot. From this position, they will screen central passes, block forward runs and make interceptions. It's not just the defensive midfielder that does this.
Thomas Muller and Bruno Fernandes at Manchester United are two perfect examples of what I'm saying.
Like I said though this is a rumours thread so let's leave it there for now and maybe revisit it once we have watched a few games.
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Post by geronimo on Aug 1, 2024 22:39:10 GMT
Interesting discussions today. I’m in danger of repeating what I said earlier in the day but there’s an aspect of what’s going on with the squad build that might be worth reflecting on. My sense is that Nathan Jones is not looking to outpass or outplay teams this season. He’s looking to over power them. He’s not looking to unlock opposing defences. He’s looking to batter them down. He’s looking for power, pace and aggression to overcome subtlety and guile. He’s not looking to play out from the back. Instead, he wants his central defenders to be aggressive and attack the ball. An exception to this general approach might be the pivot, who’ll need to read the game well, control space and move the ball on. The pivot won’t be expected to ape George Dobson’s Hollywood tackles, but to hold their position. However, I don’t expect either Coventry or Taylor to have much licence to get forward. That might suit Taylor better than Coventry. It’s a big season for both. My take is that our player trading activity needs to be seen in this context. We probably won’t be much fun to play against, or even to watch, but if the game plan works we’ll score goals of all types, by anyone and from anywhere. This is the bit that’s very much uncertain though. When Jones arrived last season our Xg against quickly improved (even if we continued to lose goals to unforced errors), but our Xg for went backwards and this obviously needs to change and improve. I may be reading too much into what happened last season, but I think Anderson and Kanu will get more minutes than the consensus seems to expect simply because they are archetypical Jones players. Dixon, by contrast, appears to be a bit of an outlier. Perhaps he’s an option in games we’re dominating but can’t score or where we simply need to roll the dice because Plan A has come up short? I suspect he’ll play less than Anderson even if he’s the better long term prospect. Just one perspective. It’s going to be an interesting and hopefully entertaining season. I would say that is bang on the money Perhaps the goals for Xg went backwards because May didn't suit the system and wasn't always used orcas subbed. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on Aug 2, 2024 9:31:58 GMT
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 2, 2024 9:58:16 GMT
This might be why we are talking to a championship club about a loan keeper then which I mentioned yesterday.
Wasn't sure if this was going on prior to the Begovic link or after, but this certainly suggests he won't be coming in.
Can only be down to money OR as we can't move certain players on our only incomings can be loans with the majority of the wage being paid by the parent club.
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Post by kings hill addick on Aug 2, 2024 9:58:40 GMT
In my opinion, it can be a 10, 8, 4, or 66. It's irrelevant. We need to score more goals from midfield. This is the top and bottom of it. I respect other people's opinions but talk of Campbell as a 10 or Dixon even starting games before Xmas is surely shared in hope rather than expectation. It's so long ago since we had a CAM who scores goals and it goes hand in hand with why no midfielder has got into double figures from the middle of the park for donkeys years. We can pack the midfield with as many workmanlike players as you care to put in there but the work has to have an end product which is goals. We have more players who are more likely to go backwards with the ball at present than we have those who will push forward into the final third. Fands putting the amount of responsibility they are doing onto the young shoulders of Dixon before he's even got his vias is a hard read to be honest. It will take him 3-6 months to adapt to the pace and physicality of the English game. He's Kaheim Dixon not Lamine Yamal. Same goes for Tyreece, I hope he steps up but is final ball and execution at the business end of the pitch is lacking. We have, indeed, gone a long time without a midfielder scoring ten goals but I don't think we've had many of those - ever. Very few clubs have a player that scores ten goals from midfield. Steven Gerrard only managed it four times in his seventeen year career at Liverpool, for example. That doesn't change what you say - we need more goals from midfield, from everywhere, really. However, with more squad rotation these days, if two midfielders play, say, 30ish games each, and score ten between them that might help make up the numbers. Also Alfie scored a lot of goals last season but it's not way too unreasonable to expect three strikers, between them, to score 37 goals - which is Alfie, Blackett-Taylor and Kanu managed, combined. Mundell is right, though, we are going to need to batter teams into defeat. Not the same, obviously, but a similar principle to Klopp's heavy metal football where the opposition just can't cope with the onslaught. Obviously we will be doing a much more industrial version of that. |
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Post by kings hill addick on Aug 2, 2024 9:58:54 GMT
Let's agree to disagree and I'll bow to your superior knowledge if it means we can stop going around in circles. Your posting style is very much like a former member on here ubedizzy, he was never wrong either. For as long as I have a hole in my arse, a modern day 10 operates in both halves not just the oppenents. Players in that role have in possession and out of possesion responsibilities. They can be a 10 slightly further up the pitch or become a box-to-box player who looks for the ball in a deeper position and seeks to to turn defence into attack on the counter. The role of 10 involves far more than just creating for others with on-the-ball actions. Movements into the penalty area to support the centre forward(s) are important, as well as moving out wide and into the inside channels to support a winger or full-back. They should help create wide overloads, to get teammates into spaces to cross. They often drop deeper centrally to receive too, especially when there is little space between the lines. Out of possession the modern number 10 has far more defensive responsibility than what they used to have. It's no longer seen as a free role. They will often push forward to press the opposition centre-backs or move to defend in wide areas. Often, they will directly engage and duel with opposing full-backs high up the pitch. They also plays a key screening role to try and block access into the opposition's pivot. From this position, they will screen central passes, block forward runs and make interceptions. It's not just the defensive midfielder that does this. Thomas Muller and Bruno Fernandes at Manchester United are two perfect examples of what I'm saying. Like I said though this is a rumours thread so let's leave it there for now and maybe revisit it once we have watched a few games. I'd be happy with either of those two. Can you pass that along to the transfer committee, please?  |
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Post by aucklandaddick on Aug 2, 2024 10:04:51 GMT
This might be why we are talking to a championship club about a loan keeper then which I mentioned yesterday. Wasn't sure if this was going on prior to the Begovic link or after, but this certainly suggests he won't be coming in. Can only be down to money OR as we can't move certain players on our only incomings can be loans with the majority of the wage being paid by the parent club. QPR mate of mine said he was on really good wedge at Rangers so he was really surprised that he was talking to us…… Surely there are very decent keepers available on loan from the Championship without us having to eat up the budget….isnt there a couple at Coventry worth looking at…..? |
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Post by kings hill addick on Aug 2, 2024 10:46:11 GMT
This might be why we are talking to a championship club about a loan keeper then which I mentioned yesterday. Wasn't sure if this was going on prior to the Begovic link or after, but this certainly suggests he won't be coming in. Can only be down to money OR as we can't move certain players on our only incomings can be loans with the majority of the wage being paid by the parent club. QPR mate of mine said he was on really good wedge at Rangers so he was really surprised that he was talking to us…… Surely there are very decent keepers available on loan from the Championship without us having to eat up the budget….isnt there a couple at Coventry worth looking at…..? To be fair, if he’s been released from QPR his wages last season are irrelevant. He’s 37, he’s not likely to have any resale value, so I can’t see many clubs paying him serious money. |
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Post by bigandy99 on Aug 2, 2024 12:31:41 GMT
De Gea is still waiting for a club!!
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Post by hertsaddick on Aug 2, 2024 12:32:04 GMT
This might be why we are talking to a championship club about a loan keeper then which I mentioned yesterday. Wasn't sure if this was going on prior to the Begovic link or after, but this certainly suggests he won't be coming in. Can only be down to money OR as we can't move certain players on our only incomings can be loans with the majority of the wage being paid by the parent club. Luton are keen to offload keeper Tim Krul. Still under contract and rumoured to be on £25k a week. Can't see anybody willing to pay that sort of money for him, so perhaps a loan deal with them paying the majority of his wages is their best/only option if they are looking to reduce their wage bill. |
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Post by kings hill addick on Aug 2, 2024 13:33:48 GMT
De Gea is still waiting for a club!! No thanks Have you heard Roy Keane talk about him? |
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Post by norfolkrobin on Aug 2, 2024 14:28:51 GMT
Interesting discussions today. I’m in danger of repeating what I said earlier in the day but there’s an aspect of what’s going on with the squad build that might be worth reflecting on. My sense is that Nathan Jones is not looking to outpass or outplay teams this season. He’s looking to over power them. He’s not looking to unlock opposing defences. He’s looking to batter them down. He’s looking for power, pace and aggression to overcome subtlety and guile. He’s not looking to play out from the back. Instead, he wants his central defenders to be aggressive and attack the ball. An exception to this general approach might be the pivot, who’ll need to read the game well, control space and move the ball on. The pivot won’t be expected to ape George Dobson’s Hollywood tackles, but to hold their position. However, I don’t expect either Coventry or Taylor to have much licence to get forward. That might suit Taylor better than Coventry. It’s a big season for both. My take is that our player trading activity needs to be seen in this context. We probably won’t be much fun to play against, or even to watch, but if the game plan works we’ll score goals of all types, by anyone and from anywhere. This is the bit that’s very much uncertain though. When Jones arrived last season our Xg against quickly improved (even if we continued to lose goals to unforced errors), but our Xg for went backwards and this obviously needs to change and improve. I may be reading too much into what happened last season, but I think Anderson and Kanu will get more minutes than the consensus seems to expect simply because they are archetypical Jones players. Dixon, by contrast, appears to be a bit of an outlier. Perhaps he’s an option in games we’re dominating but can’t score or where we simply need to roll the dice because Plan A has come up short? I suspect he’ll play less than Anderson even if he’s the better long term prospect. Just one perspective. It’s going to be an interesting and hopefully entertaining season. In a perfect world,I'd love us to dance around teams and pass them to death,but like you state in your post if NJ has created a cohesive unit that can run over teams with brute force then im all for it,almost sick of EVERY team trying to play out and have possession just for the sake of it,IF we play for territory and run over teams with graft then im in,would be quite novel to not be the leagues softest touches hopefully. I think we'll all agree if we're an eyesore sometimes,but it produces points then we can live with it. |
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Post by steve2707 on Aug 2, 2024 14:31:25 GMT
This is the top and bottom of it. I respect other people's opinions but talk of Campbell as a 10 or Dixon even starting games before Xmas is surely shared in hope rather than expectation. It's so long ago since we had a CAM who scores goals and it goes hand in hand with why no midfielder has got into double figures from the middle of the park for donkeys years. We can pack the midfield with as many workmanlike players as you care to put in there but the work has to have an end product which is goals. We have more players who are more likely to go backwards with the ball at present than we have those who will push forward into the final third. Fands putting the amount of responsibility they are doing onto the young shoulders of Dixon before he's even got his vias is a hard read to be honest. It will take him 3-6 months to adapt to the pace and physicality of the English game. He's Kaheim Dixon not Lamine Yamal. Same goes for Tyreece, I hope he steps up but is final ball and execution at the business end of the pitch is lacking. We have, indeed, gone a long time without a midfielder scoring ten goals but I don't think we've had many of those - ever. Very few clubs have a player that scores ten goals from midfield. Steven Gerrard only managed it four times in his seventeen year career at Liverpool, for example. That doesn't change what you say - we need more goals from midfield, from everywhere, really. However, with more squad rotation these days, if two midfielders play, say, 30ish games each, and score ten between them that might help make up the numbers. Also Alfie scored a lot of goals last season but it's not way too unreasonable to expect three strikers, between them, to score 37 goals - which is Alfie, Blackett-Taylor and Kanu managed, combined. Mundell is right, though, we are going to need to batter teams into defeat. Not the same, obviously, but a similar principle to Klopp's heavy metal football where the opposition just can't cope with the onslaught. Obviously we will be doing a much more industrial version of that. I don't necessarily think we need A midfielder who scores 10 goals a season. 3 who score 5 each is even better. But last season I think our highest scoring midfielder scored 2? Maybe 3. And it's not been that long ago since we had a high scoring midfielder. Unless you don't think Jacko was a midfielder. |
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Post by kings hill addick on Aug 2, 2024 16:02:12 GMT
We have, indeed, gone a long time without a midfielder scoring ten goals but I don't think we've had many of those - ever. Very few clubs have a player that scores ten goals from midfield. Steven Gerrard only managed it four times in his seventeen year career at Liverpool, for example. That doesn't change what you say - we need more goals from midfield, from everywhere, really. However, with more squad rotation these days, if two midfielders play, say, 30ish games each, and score ten between them that might help make up the numbers. Also Alfie scored a lot of goals last season but it's not way too unreasonable to expect three strikers, between them, to score 37 goals - which is Alfie, Blackett-Taylor and Kanu managed, combined. Mundell is right, though, we are going to need to batter teams into defeat. Not the same, obviously, but a similar principle to Klopp's heavy metal football where the opposition just can't cope with the onslaught. Obviously we will be doing a much more industrial version of that. I don't necessarily think we need A midfielder who scores 10 goals a season. 3 who score 5 each is even better. But last season I think our highest scoring midfielder scored 2? Maybe 3. And it's not been that long ago since we had a high scoring midfielder. Unless you don't think Jacko was a midfielder. Fair enough. I’d forgotten about Jackson, all be it that he played as a winger/wing back/full back for most of his time with us but he did, indeed, score ten goals in a season, three times. The last time was eleven seasons ago. I don’t think he played as a CM a DCM or an AM during the time he scored those goals thoigh, and I thought that was what I thought we were talking about. |
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995632
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Post by 995632 on Aug 2, 2024 19:00:28 GMT
I don't necessarily think we need A midfielder who scores 10 goals a season. 3 who score 5 each is even better. But last season I think our highest scoring midfielder scored 2? Maybe 3. And it's not been that long ago since we had a high scoring midfielder. Unless you don't think Jacko was a midfielder. Fair enough. I’d forgotten about Jackson, all be it that he played as a winger/wing back/full back for most of his time with us but he did, indeed, score ten goals in a season, three times. The last time was eleven seasons ago. I don’t think he played as a CM a DCM or an AM during the time he scored those goals thoigh, and I thought that was what I thought we were talking about. He came to us on loan as a LB, got injured and then came back to us as a left winger which he operated as until he had a few terrible games and Powell said something along the lines of 'he won't play on the wing again for me, I won't do that to him'. He predominantly played in midfield, tucked in a bit like how Curbs mainly utilised Graham Stuart. |
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