|
|
Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 12, 2024 15:17:26 GMT
You are being silly & pedantic. You only had to look at our team at Reading on Saturday without George Dobson to realise how bloody awful we are. I’m in no doubt that Nathan Jones rang the alarm bells & the investors on Saturday evening, and insisted that the terms of Dobson’s transfer be changed so he can play again & help keep us up. Anyone slagging off George Dobson & saying he’s not worth the money clearly hasn’t seen Coventry, Bakinson or Louie Taylor live. What's silly? Or pedantic about what I just wrote? Not sure if you were around in the 80s, but without 5,000 true fans, there wouldn’t be a club here today. Never underestimate or attempt to belittle the role our fans play at this club. |
|
|
|
Post by revilo on Feb 12, 2024 15:22:59 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireaddick on Feb 12, 2024 15:23:58 GMT
What's silly? Or pedantic about what I just wrote? Not sure if you were around in the 80s, but without 5,000 true fans, there wouldn’t be a club here today. Never underestimate or attempt to belittle the role our fans play at this club. Totally irrelevant what happened in the 80's and what I am talking about. But its a nice way to make the point you’ve done your bit for the club. The fact is a group of people are making up millions in losses every year. So I'm sorry but nobody is paying anyones wages but the people funding the losses. We all contribute, and no doubt you have contributed far more than I ever will. But to say you pay a players wages is ridiculous, and incorrect. |
|
|
|
Post by kings hill addick on Feb 12, 2024 15:32:00 GMT
George Dobson isn't our current POTY. That's Jesurun Rak-Sakyi. The fact the Dobbo fanbois can't even get something that basic and well-known right makes me less inclined to blindly accept their other takes on GD's value etc. Technically he is our current player of the year. He is a current player. Sorry but that statement is, rather, clutching at straws. As for paying him something fair in relation to his effort. Are you joking? I promise you that if I was allowed to play a first team game for Charlton I would give more effort than any other player has, ever. I would still be the worst player ever to have been allowed to play for the club. Charlton Athletic are not a pre-school nursery where we have to be fair and kind. It is a business that is losing c. £8m a year and in the three years that Dobson has played for the club it has finished in three of the lowest positions in it's 118 year history. We have just paid off Charlie Kirk because he was given a contract that was more than he could get from anyone else - even with a free transfer. We, also, have several players out on loan where we are subsidising the wages. I have nothing against George, I have enjoyed watching him play, but there is nothing to suggest that he is outstanding in League One. In his seven full seasons in League One he has finished 8th once (with Sunderland) and 10th once (with us) and he has been relegated once and finished 19th twice. He has never played in The Championship. A two year deal gives him two seasons in League One or a season in League One and one in the Championship. The club would be irresponsible to give him three years. I'm not sure we have any players at the club, now, on more than two years that have not, already, played in the Championship - or come through the academy. The third year could well be one in which he can't make our first team and we can't give him away. I suspect that the Captaincy was given to him due to his 'effort' and commitment. A long contract on high (for League One) wages is not the same. The performances this season have been poor, the club are haemorrhaging fans and money and George has, already, been replaced. Clearly he is good to have around in a League One relegation battle but until he demonstrates that he can step up to the Championship anything more than two years, with an option for another one, exposes the club to the kind situation that we have had with Kirk and Aneke. |
|
|
|
Post by kings hill addick on Feb 12, 2024 15:37:47 GMT
As if he's not on a "fair wage" already. It's easy to talk about what people need to be payed when you aren't paying the bills. I am paying for a season ticket so I am paying his wages. If you want we can go into the last 15 games without him - it’s up to you. Again, really? If George earns £3,500 a week (someone has said this), and you have one of the most expensive season tickets the club sell (c. £500) you have paid his wages for one day. Of course, on that basis you have been given access to all games for nothing but, you have hardly paid his wages, have you? |
|
|
|
Post by sevenoaks on Feb 12, 2024 15:40:18 GMT
Technically he is our current player of the year. He is a current player. Sorry but that statement is, rather, clutching at straws. As for paying him something fair in relation to his effort. Are you joking? I promise you that if I was allowed to play a first team game for Charlton I would give more effort than any other player has, ever. I would still be the worst player ever to have been allowed to play for the club. Charlton Athletic are not a pre-school nursery where we have to be fair and kind. It is a business that is losing c. £8m a year and in the three years that Dobson has played for the club it has finished in three of the lowest positions in it's 118 year history. We have just paid off Charlie Kirk because he was given a contract that was more than he could get from anyone else - even with a free transfer. We, also, have several players out on loan where we are subsidising the wages. I have nothing against George, I have enjoyed watching him play, but there is nothing to suggest that he is outstanding in League One. In his seven full seasons in League One he has finished 8th once (with Sunderland) and 10th once (with us) and he has been relegated once and finished 19th twice. He has never played in The Championship. A two year deal gives him two seasons in League One or a season in League One and one in the Championship. The club would be irresponsible to give him three years. I'm not sure we have any players at the club, now, on more than two years that have not, already, played in the Championship - or come through the academy. The third year could well be one in which he can't make our first team and we can't give him away. I suspect that the Captaincy was given to him due to his 'effort' and commitment. A long contract on high (for League One) wages is not the same. The performances this season have been poor, the club are haemorrhaging fans and money and George has, already, been replaced. Clearly he is good to have around in a League One relegation battle but until he demonstrates that he can step up to the Championship anything more than two years, with an option for another one, exposes the club to the kind situation that we have had with Kirk and Aneke. I heard that he was looking gor 5 grand a week, not anything like our top earning superstars who spend all their time on the treatment table.. Someone correct me who is ITK... It's like a lot of people are holding George Dobdon responsible for our last 2 years league table finishes.. |
|
|
|
Post by manikin on Feb 12, 2024 15:50:24 GMT
Nathan Jones has already earned this month's wages stopping Dobbo's move. He's also showing Scott is surplus to requirements.
|
|
|
|
Post by watameires on Feb 12, 2024 15:55:45 GMT
Reading the latest posts on this debate I have just realised that by having a season ticket I am contributing to Scotts wages! And the cleaning boy! I’d hope that Scott was doing both jobs for the salary he’s on |
|
|
|
Post by watameires on Feb 12, 2024 16:00:15 GMT
Technically he is our current player of the year. He is a current player. Sorry but that statement is, rather, clutching at straws. As for paying him something fair in relation to his effort. Are you joking? I promise you that if I was allowed to play a first team game for Charlton I would give more effort than any other player has, ever. I would still be the worst player ever to have been allowed to play for the club. Charlton Athletic are not a pre-school nursery where we have to be fair and kind. It is a business that is losing c. £8m a year and in the three years that Dobson has played for the club it has finished in three of the lowest positions in it's 118 year history. We have just paid off Charlie Kirk because he was given a contract that was more than he could get from anyone else - even with a free transfer. We, also, have several players out on loan where we are subsidising the wages. I have nothing against George, I have enjoyed watching him play, but there is nothing to suggest that he is outstanding in League One. In his seven full seasons in League One he has finished 8th once (with Sunderland) and 10th once (with us) and he has been relegated once and finished 19th twice. He has never played in The Championship. A two year deal gives him two seasons in League One or a season in League One and one in the Championship. The club would be irresponsible to give him three years. I'm not sure we have any players at the club, now, on more than two years that have not, already, played in the Championship - or come through the academy. The third year could well be one in which he can't make our first team and we can't give him away. I suspect that the Captaincy was given to him due to his 'effort' and commitment. A long contract on high (for League One) wages is not the same. The performances this season have been poor, the club are haemorrhaging fans and money and George has, already, been replaced. Clearly he is good to have around in a League One relegation battle but until he demonstrates that he can step up to the Championship anything more than two years, with an option for another one, exposes the club to the kind situation that we have had with Kirk and Aneke. Spot on. A like only was insufficient for this post 👏 |
|
|
|
Post by Mundell on Feb 12, 2024 16:10:02 GMT
Sounds like the George Dobson transfer is off. Nathan Jones has told Rich Cawley that the terms didn’t suit us. “In the end, we didn’t want to do it” - NJ. With respect Occam’s Razor I think you sometimes read things and assume it says what you want it to say, or what you’d expect whoever wrote it to say, without bothering to read carefully or to think about what’s actually being said. This can create unnecessary confusion and conflict. Nathan Jones has not said Dobson’s move to Hungary is off. He’s actually confirmed it’s happening, but not until the end of the season. Around five hours ago I posted on comment on the likely background to Dobson’s move to Hungary, and the late change which Jones has now confirmed, and you queried my theory, as you put it, but without actually addressing what I’d said. What Jones has said should not be a surprise. It’s what we already knew and, ironically, it lends further support to my “theory”, for what that’s worth. Take another look at the post. I’m not claiming any credit, but it fits entirely with what Jones has said and it would explain how we got here. |
|
|
|
Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 12, 2024 16:13:27 GMT
Sounds like the George Dobson transfer is off. Nathan Jones has told Rich Cawley that the terms didn’t suit us. “In the end, we didn’t want to do it” - NJ. With respect Occam’s Razor I think you sometimes read things and assume it says what you want it to say, or what you’d expect whoever wrote it to say, without bothering to read carefully or to think about what’s actually being said. This can create unnecessary confusion and conflict. Nathan Jones has not said Dobson’s move to Hungary is off. He’s actually confirmed it’s happening, but not until the end of the season. Around five hours ago I posted on comment on the likely background to Dobson’s move to Hungary, and the late change which Jones has now confirmed, and you queried my theory, as you put it, but without actually addressing what I’d said. What Jones has said should not be a surprise. It’s what we already knew and, ironically, it lends further support to my “theory”, for what that’s worth. Take another look at the post. I’m not claiming any credit, but it fits entirely with what Jones has said and it would explain how we got here. I don’t need to be patronised by you MundellI know exactly what I meant, and it doesn’t need interpreting. You’ve got your way of the supporting the club, and you’ve got your views on the SMT. And I’ve got mine. Don’t confuse loquacity - which you undoubtedly possess, with always having to be right. |
|
|
|
Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 12, 2024 16:14:52 GMT
Incidentally, if Nathan Jones has changed the terms of the Dobson sale after the Reading defeat, he deserves plenty of credit for doing so.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mundell on Feb 12, 2024 16:20:30 GMT
With respect Occam’s Razor I think you sometimes read things and assume it says what you want it to say, or what you’d expect whoever wrote it to say, without bothering to read carefully or to think about what’s actually being said. This can create unnecessary confusion and conflict. Nathan Jones has not said Dobson’s move to Hungary is off. He’s actually confirmed it’s happening, but not until the end of the season. Around five hours ago I posted on comment on the likely background to Dobson’s move to Hungary, and the late change which Jones has now confirmed, and you queried my theory, as you put it, but without actually addressing what I’d said. What Jones has said should not be a surprise. It’s what we already knew and, ironically, it lends further support to my “theory”, for what that’s worth. Take another look at the post. I’m not claiming any credit, but it fits entirely with what Jones has said and it would explain how we got here. I don’t need to be patronised by you Mundell I know exactly what I meant, and it doesn’t need interpreting. You’ve got your way of the supporting the club, and you’ve got your views on the SMT. And I’ve got mine. Don’t confuse loquacity - which you undoubtedly possess, with always having to be right. I’m not patronising you and my apologies if that’s the impression given. I was simply clarifying the situation. To be fair, you’re a fine one to be accusing others of playing the man and not the ball. |
|
|
|
Post by valleyfaithful on Feb 12, 2024 16:28:22 GMT
Whether or not it was Jones who pulled the plug on Dobbo's perm transfer, Jones certainly used the phrase 'we' which suggests he at least has a hand in the decision which is consistent with his responsibilities outlined in his first press conference. The bit I'm not that clear on is the way Jones said 'is there an option to stay longer [than the summer]? Probably.'
My question is how can that be the case when Fehérvár have apparently got a pre-contract in place? If you can just renege on a pre-contract then is it worth the paper it's written on or has Jones just got it confused and there isn't a way for Dobbo to change his mind? Hopefully someone with a sharper mind than mine can confirm either way.
|
|
|
|
Post by aaronaldo on Feb 12, 2024 16:31:42 GMT
With respect Occam’s Razor I think you sometimes read things and assume it says what you want it to say, or what you’d expect whoever wrote it to say, without bothering to read carefully or to think about what’s actually being said. This can create unnecessary confusion and conflict. Nathan Jones has not said Dobson’s move to Hungary is off. He’s actually confirmed it’s happening, but not until the end of the season. Around five hours ago I posted on comment on the likely background to Dobson’s move to Hungary, and the late change which Jones has now confirmed, and you queried my theory, as you put it, but without actually addressing what I’d said. What Jones has said should not be a surprise. It’s what we already knew and, ironically, it lends further support to my “theory”, for what that’s worth. Take another look at the post. I’m not claiming any credit, but it fits entirely with what Jones has said and it would explain how we got here. I don’t need to be patronised by you Mundell I know exactly what I meant, and it doesn’t need interpreting. You’ve got your way of the supporting the club, and you’ve got your views on the SMT. And I’ve got mine. Don’t confuse loquacity - which you undoubtedly possess, with always having to be right. OR, have you considered stand up comedy? This made be laugh out loud! |
|
|
|
Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 12, 2024 16:33:48 GMT
I don’t need to be patronised by you Mundell I know exactly what I meant, and it doesn’t need interpreting. You’ve got your way of the supporting the club, and you’ve got your views on the SMT. And I’ve got mine. Don’t confuse loquacity - which you undoubtedly possess, with always having to be right. I’m not patronising you and my apologies if that’s the impression given. I was simply clarifying the situation. To be fair, you’re a fine one to be accusing others of playing the man and not the ball. Apology accepted. I think it was Lardiman who once made the very perceptive point that you are an agreeable poster, so long as everyone is agreeing with you. |
|
|
|
Post by Mundell on Feb 12, 2024 16:37:46 GMT
Whether or not it was Jones who pulled the plug on Dobbo's perm transfer, Jones certainly used the phrase 'we' which suggests he at least has a hand in the decision which is consistent with his responsibilities outlined in his first press conference. The bit I'm not that clear on is the way Jones said 'is there an option to stay longer [than the summer]? Probably.' My question is how can that be the case when Fehérvár have apparently got a pre-contract in place? If you can just renege on a pre-contract then is it worth the paper it's written on or has Jones just got it confused and there isn't a way for Dobbo to change his mind? Hopefully someone with a sharper mind than mine can confirm either way. I certainly don’t have a sharper mind valleyfaithful but I might be a bit more cynical. I suspect Jones would like Dobson to believe he’d be happy for him to stay so the ambiguity is helpful, even if he knows the player is leaving in the summer because he has a legally binding contract elsewhere. Jones’s main concern will be to ensure that Dobson is motivated and committed to the cause for the remainder of this season and his comments on that are also interesting. At this stage, where Dobson is next season is neither here nor there to be brutal about it. |
|
|
|
Post by Mundell on Feb 12, 2024 16:43:16 GMT
I’m not patronising you and my apologies if that’s the impression given. I was simply clarifying the situation. To be fair, you’re a fine one to be accusing others of playing the man and not the ball. Apology accepted. I think it was Lardiman who once made the very perceptive point that you are an agreeable poster, so long as everyone is agreeing with you. Thanks. Was that Barb really necessary though?!! And what about you? How agreeable are you when others disagree with your perspective?!! 😎 |
|
|
|
Post by clarky on Feb 12, 2024 16:47:03 GMT
Whether or not it was Jones who pulled the plug on Dobbo's perm transfer, Jones certainly used the phrase 'we' which suggests he at least has a hand in the decision which is consistent with his responsibilities outlined in his first press conference. The bit I'm not that clear on is the way Jones said 'is there an option to stay longer [than the summer]? Probably.' My question is how can that be the case when Fehérvár have apparently got a pre-contract in place? If you can just renege on a pre-contract then is it worth the paper it's written on or has Jones just got it confused and there isn't a way for Dobbo to change his mind? Hopefully someone with a sharper mind than mine can confirm either way. I don't know much about contract law but I would have thought a (pre) contract could be broken but it would come at a cost. If I am right I suspect there would be a clause stating how much that cost would be should the deal be reneged upon. So as things stand Dobson can play for us and is our player until the end of the season and will then be going to play in Hungry. However, if we agreed to his terms and were prepared to pay for breaking the pre contact then he could sign a new contract with us. So, as there are.a number of ifs and buts Jones would be right in saying "probably". |
|
|
|
Post by valleyfaithful on Feb 12, 2024 17:01:51 GMT
Whether or not it was Jones who pulled the plug on Dobbo's perm transfer, Jones certainly used the phrase 'we' which suggests he at least has a hand in the decision which is consistent with his responsibilities outlined in his first press conference. The bit I'm not that clear on is the way Jones said 'is there an option to stay longer [than the summer]? Probably.' My question is how can that be the case when Fehérvár have apparently got a pre-contract in place? If you can just renege on a pre-contract then is it worth the paper it's written on or has Jones just got it confused and there isn't a way for Dobbo to change his mind? Hopefully someone with a sharper mind than mine can confirm either way. I certainly don’t have a sharper mind valleyfaithful but I might be a bit more cynical. I suspect Jones would like Dobson to believe he’d be happy for him to stay so the ambiguity is helpful, even if he knows the player is leaving in the summer because he has a legally binding contract elsewhere. Jones’s main concern will be to ensure that Dobson is motivated and committed to the cause for the remainder of this season and his comments on that are also interesting. At this stage, where Dobson is next season is neither here nor there to be brutal about it. Fair comment, and one I agree with. I think it's semantics, it would take something monumental for Dobson to stay.
If the rumours are true and the issue was Scott, him getting sacked might do the trick but I really can't see that happening as his mates are making the choices. At least until such a time as Friedman/Brenner decide to replace the whole SMT (at which point I'd imagine they'd sink their losses and sell).
Dobson probably has a 99% chance of leaving because even if he does lead us to war and galvanise an underperforming team into a mid-table one, what is there to stay for next season? A Jones rebuild possibly but let's face it, not much else.
|
|
|
|
Post by valleyfaithful on Feb 12, 2024 17:03:08 GMT
Whether or not it was Jones who pulled the plug on Dobbo's perm transfer, Jones certainly used the phrase 'we' which suggests he at least has a hand in the decision which is consistent with his responsibilities outlined in his first press conference. The bit I'm not that clear on is the way Jones said 'is there an option to stay longer [than the summer]? Probably.' My question is how can that be the case when Fehérvár have apparently got a pre-contract in place? If you can just renege on a pre-contract then is it worth the paper it's written on or has Jones just got it confused and there isn't a way for Dobbo to change his mind? Hopefully someone with a sharper mind than mine can confirm either way. I don't know much about contract law but I would have thought a (pre) contract could be broken but it would come at a cost. If I am right I suspect there would be a clause stating how much that cost would be should the deal be reneged upon. So as things stand Dobson can play for us and is our player until the end of the season and will then be going to play in Hungry. However, if we agreed to his terms and were prepared to pay for breaking the pre contact then he could sign a new contract with us. So, as there are.a number of ifs and buts Jones would be right in saying "probably". Very true, I'm sure it's something a small settlement would likely fix but as in my post above - very, very unlikely to be required. |
|
|
|
Post by clarky on Feb 12, 2024 17:11:34 GMT
I don't know much about contract law but I would have thought a (pre) contract could be broken but it would come at a cost. If I am right I suspect there would be a clause stating how much that cost would be should the deal be reneged upon. So as things stand Dobson can play for us and is our player until the end of the season and will then be going to play in Hungry. However, if we agreed to his terms and were prepared to pay for breaking the pre contact then he could sign a new contract with us. So, as there are.a number of ifs and buts Jones would be right in saying "probably". Very true, I'm sure it's something a small settlement would likely fix but as in my post above - very, very unlikely to be required. Whilst I agree as I think Jones has won the battle but not the war, him being Manager rather than head coach may give him more clout and if he really wanted something I don't think he is the type to take no lightly. |
|
|
|
Post by massivebeak on Feb 12, 2024 18:57:17 GMT
Do you pop balloons at children parties? No. Do you arrange children's parties that cost £10k and then offer to pay £500 for them? This burn went under the radar 🤣🤣🤣 |
|
|
|
Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 12, 2024 19:39:41 GMT
The Dobson saga has not been handled well, but on balance it’s been a good day for the club.
We get to keep our skipper and most influential player for the relegation run in.
Nathan Jones has already exerted his authority, and won a power struggle with Andy Scott over Dobson.
Can anyone imagine Micheal Appleton turning round after the Reading defeat, and telling the SMT that they need to perform an embarrassing last min U-turn on Dobbo 🤔
|
|
|
|
Post by hongkongaddick on Feb 13, 2024 6:21:00 GMT
If Dobbo’s family have moved to Hungary, that’s not gonna help his performances is it?
|
|
|
|
Post by sevenoaks on Feb 13, 2024 8:33:59 GMT
If Dobbo’s family have moved to Hungary, that’s not gonna help his performances is it? I personally doubt very much, that they would have moved out there this early. I guess we will soon hear. |
|
|
|
Post by earlpurple on Feb 13, 2024 9:51:45 GMT
I cashed it out, I cannot have a conflict of interest tonight, and in any case my betting strategy is in general to go for long term bets where I expect the odds to greatly shorten, not necessarily come in.
|
|
|
|
Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 13, 2024 19:52:31 GMT
Charlton TV tonight.
Curbs on Dobson.
“I can’t understand it. He’s been our best player in the last 2 years. He would have got in most of my squads “
Brown on Dobson.
“The club have handled it badly. The powers that be upstairs. He (GD) has been messed about”.
Well said Curbs & Brownie 👏
|
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireaddick on Feb 13, 2024 20:09:57 GMT
Charlton TV tonight. Curbs on Dobson. “I can’t understand it. He’s been our best player in the last 2 years. He would have got in most of my squads “ Brown on Dobson. “The club have handled it badly. The powers that be upstairs. He (GD) has been messed about”. Well said Curbs & Brownie 👏 Maybe he will stay now with Jones calling the shots? Still doesn't look good him holding another teams shirt up. |
|
|
|
Post by earlpurple on Feb 13, 2024 20:24:18 GMT
I shouldn't have cashed it out
|
|
