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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2023 20:33:26 GMT
Load of crap … the club for the first time in 8/10 years can now move forward …. not going to happen in 3 weeks mind you .. stability I am a bit confused by your statement that the club can now move forward for the first time in 8-10 as you have consistently backed all of our previous owners with your positivity so are you now admitting that they were not so good now they have left? Doesn't matter who, when, why or how. If they're current, they're great. |
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Post by yorkshireaddick on Sept 6, 2023 20:36:21 GMT
I am a bit confused by your statement that the club can now move forward for the first time in 8-10 as you have consistently backed all of our previous owners with your positivity so are you now admitting that they were not so good now they have left? Doesn't matter who, when, why or how. If they're current, they're great. It's a severe case of toxic positivity towards any new owners. |
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Post by seriouslyred on Sept 6, 2023 20:41:46 GMT
Load of crap … the club for the first time in 8/10 years can now move forward …. not going to happen in 3 weeks mind you .. stability I am a bit confused by your statement that the club can now move forward for the first time in 8-10 as you have consistently backed all of our previous owners with your positivity so are you now admitting that they were not so good now they have left? Some fans will always believe in the owner, the next manager, or certain players as they develop. Other fans romanticise the past and maintain that it might never be replicated unless somebody "gets the band back together". That might mean Curbs as DoF and/or Varney as CEO. And Duchatelet must gift the Valley & Sparrows Lane back at a knockdown price! The irony is that this group of nostalgic pessimists pine after an SMT that delivers as well as talks to fans. And yet 100% rejects this new SMT which has arranged a payoff for Sandgaard AND has decommissioned the Sandgaard/ Gallen squad... aside from Dobson, Leaburn, CBT and Fraser. Let's face it, we are between eras. "The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters" - Gramsci |
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Post by Mundell on Sept 7, 2023 8:09:49 GMT
I am a bit confused by your statement that the club can now move forward for the first time in 8-10 as you have consistently backed all of our previous owners with your positivity so are you now admitting that they were not so good now they have left? Some fans will always believe in the owner, the next manager, or certain players as they develop. Other fans romanticise the past and maintain that it might never be replicated unless somebody "gets the band back together". That might mean Curbs as DoF and/or Varney as CEO. And Duchatelet must gift the Valley & Sparrows Lane back at a knockdown price! The irony is that this group of nostalgic pessimists pine after an SMT that delivers as well as talks to fans. And yet 100% rejects this new SMT which has arranged a payoff for Sandgaard AND has decommissioned the Sandgaard/ Gallen squad... aside from Dobson, Leaburn, CBT and Fraser. Let's face it, we are between eras. "The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters" - Gramsci This quote from Gramsci is also of relevance to today’s football fans, “The challenge of modernity is to live without illusions and without becoming disillusioned. I’m a pessimist because of intelligence, but an optimist because of will.” The club seems to be bedevilled by noisy nostalgic pessimists. |
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Post by surreyaddick on Sept 7, 2023 8:58:59 GMT
Over the last nine years the fans have been f****d over by every single owner. WE have had lie upon lie, the new owners have to understand that regardless who owns the club they have to build alot of trust and not be welcome with open arms.
That starts now with this appointment and showing the supporters how serious they are about our club, as it is our club and not another company that they can asset strip.
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Post by sevenoaks on Sept 7, 2023 9:05:06 GMT
Over the last nine years the fans have been f****d over by every single owner. WE have had lie upon lie, the new owners have to understand that regardless who owns the club they have to build alot of trust and not be welcome with open arms. That starts now with this appointment and showing the supporters how serious they are about our club, as it is our club and not another company that they can asset strip. I get, where you are coming from, but what assets can they actually strip?. Miles Leaburn? George Dobson?. They would probably at some point leave anyway. Also presumably if they own the club, it's there for them to do as they seem fit... |
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Post by surreyaddick on Sept 7, 2023 9:33:42 GMT
Over the last nine years the fans have been f****d over by every single owner. WE have had lie upon lie, the new owners have to understand that regardless who owns the club they have to build alot of trust and not be welcome with open arms. That starts now with this appointment and showing the supporters how serious they are about our club, as it is our club and not another company that they can asset strip. I get, where you are coming from, but what assets can they actually strip?. Miles Leaburn? George Dobson?. They would probably at some point leave anyway. Also presumably if they own the club, it's there for them to do as they seem fit... Leaburn, Dobson, AMB, May, CBT (whom they will get a fee for) any youngsters that come through the ranks in the next couple of years or those that may improve ie Ness, Kanu. These will not be replaced with a like for like replacement, CM has already gone on record stating he wants to only have a 1 million pound loss a year. So where are they going to reduce it from, its not the bovril sales in the Covered End. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2023 9:51:18 GMT
Think some are being a bit paranoid which is understandable, but Think they need more than 2 months to sort ahit out.
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Post by sevenoaks on Sept 7, 2023 9:57:12 GMT
I get, where you are coming from, but what assets can they actually strip?. Miles Leaburn? George Dobson?. They would probably at some point leave anyway. Also presumably if they own the club, it's there for them to do as they seem fit... Leaburn, Dobson, AMB, May, CBT (whom they will get a fee for) any youngsters that come through the ranks in the next couple of years or those that may improve ie Ness, Kanu. These will not be replaced with a like for like replacement, CM has already gone on record stating he wants to only have a 1 million pound loss a year. So where are they going to reduce it from, its not the bovril sales in the Covered End. No different then, from what I have seen in the last 58 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2023 10:12:40 GMT
Think some are being a bit paranoid which is understandable, but Think they need more than 2 months to sort ahit out. One thing I'd like to add though the lack of any sort of communication from the leading shareholders doesn't help with supporters paranoia. |
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Post by seriouslyred on Sept 7, 2023 10:18:10 GMT
I get, where you are coming from, but what assets can they actually strip?. Miles Leaburn? George Dobson?. They would probably at some point leave anyway. Also presumably if they own the club, it's there for them to do as they seem fit... Leaburn, Dobson, AMB, May, CBT (whom they will get a fee for) any youngsters that come through the ranks in the next couple of years or those that may improve ie Ness, Kanu. These will not be replaced with a like for like replacement, CM has already gone on record stating he wants to only have a 1 million pound loss a year. So where are they going to reduce it from, its not the bovril sales in the Covered End. Of all the players you mention, Leaburn will fetch a very tidy sum. And if his progress continues then bids will come in as early as January. He, his agent and his parents will take a view on the offers vs staying at CAFC. If sold is that asset stripping or simply a continuation of our history where player sales offset losses. The real problems arise when the SMT either has to sell to make ends meet and/or they fail to sign the real talent on long term deals. Right now Dobson and CBT can walk next summer so ideally extensions are negotiated. Another perspective is that we have a lot of young talent and the challenge is to improve individual and team performances such that we make the top six. And then secure promotion. This way the squad grows together and the journey less bumpy. For that to occur we need the right Manager, an improvement in fitness and sports science, and for Scott to address the weakest parts of the squad in January. I'm not sure we've seen enough football (with everyone fit) to reach a consensus upon which three positions require real improvement. Fundamentally your point about the SMT running the club as they see fit is very true. This is no democracy, but modern data aggregation methods such as XG and Sofascore tell anybody interested whether we're on the right track or not. This SMT are pursuing a strategy not dissimilar to Duchatelet but the difference is that they are visible, they have years of experience, and they've appointed a Technical Director with a track record. Given our history one can understand all the suspicion. But is it naive to assume that SE7 Partners want CAFC to climb the table and thus interests are aligned? Why would GFP invest if not to get to the Championship and then have a crack at promotion? |
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Post by aaronaldo on Sept 7, 2023 10:47:00 GMT
Think some are being a bit paranoid which is understandable, but Think they need more than 2 months to sort ahit out. One thing I'd like to add though the lack of any sort of communication from the leading shareholders doesn't help with supporters paranoia. Communication about what exactly? That they aren't going to have a fire sale? Didn't Andy Scott mention in an interview that we would be retaining talent as much as possible and not selling at the first bid (like previously). Something along those lines. We all know there will be offers we can't refuse. I don't understand this whole "we want to hear from the owners/stakeholders" that a number of fans seem to be calling for. They aren't running the club! The SMT are. We are unlikely to hear from the main backers. Feel like some fans want a weekly "We're not selling players this week" communication update. "Still not looking to sell the Valley / Training ground for redevelopment this month". etc |
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Post by surridgecobbler5 on Sept 7, 2023 11:00:48 GMT
I think 'the fans' are naturally sceptical given the history, and since any semblance of logical or consistent ownership disappeared with the appointment of Dowie as Murray believed his own PR in the latter days, it; is hardly surprising.
The New SMT is not yet even all on board, but the early dismissal of Holden has been seen as a huge indication of yet a further shitshow episode.
Let's see how this appointment is finalised as it is the strongest signal of the intentions of this ownership/SMT.
Right now the jury is out.
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Post by manikin on Sept 7, 2023 11:02:47 GMT
We need a good talented mananager and we need him quick, time is ebbing away. Still think we should have approached some out of work managers, there's some good talent amongst them and we are not in a position to be proud.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2023 11:04:27 GMT
One thing I'd like to add though the lack of any sort of communication from the leading shareholders doesn't help with supporters paranoia. Communication about what exactly? That they aren't going to have a fire sale? Didn't Andy Scott mention in an interview that we would be retaining talent as much as possible and not selling at the first bid (like previously). Something along those lines. We all know there will be offers we can't refuse. I don't understand this whole "we want to hear from the owners/stakeholders" that a number of fans seem to be calling for. They aren't running the club! The SMT are. We are unlikely to hear from the main backers. Feel like some fans want a weekly "We're not selling players this week" communication update. "Still not looking to sell the Valley / Training ground for redevelopment this month". etc They haven't even introduced themselves told us what they're all about and supporters want to hear from the actual owners or majority shareholders not just their employees. |
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Post by clarky on Sept 7, 2023 11:16:09 GMT
Think some are being a bit paranoid which is understandable, but Think they need more than 2 months to sort ahit out. One thing I'd like to add though the lack of any sort of communication from the leading shareholders doesn't help with supporters paranoia. I have said this on several occasions. The only information we get is the leaks via Reams (which are very welcome) and without them we would be very much in the dark. Whilst I take the point that the major investors don't want to involve themselves with the day to day running of the club you would think after spending circa £10m for the club they would at least want to make some sort of statement. I find it completely baffling that they don't unless there is something to hide, and there you have it, silence breeds paranoia! I agree with what has been said about the SMT and I do believe we are in a better place with their expertise. I also believe if TS had gone down this route the team/club would be in a better place than they currently are and there may not have been a need for him to sell. Let's face it spending money wasn't his problem but spending it in the right way certainly was and what he spent singlehandedly in a year is likely to outweigh what the major investors (remember they are allegedly very wealthy and we nicknamed him Skintguaard) will spend collectively. What we do know is they want to bring down operational costs to circa £1m-£2m which is more realistic than TS's "breakeven" but is still unlikely to be possible. And if/when it does fail what will they do then? I think we can all use our own paranoia to work that one out! Something else which I am unhappy about, and I apologise if that has been answered elsewhere or the gang of 4 have made a statement, and that is the lease on the ground and training ground. I seem to recall Reams saying that they spoke with the RD's early doors and it wasn't a problem and I have no reason to doubt that apart from the break clause that I believe the club can enforce next year. I assume they have no plans to enforce it and things will carry on as they are, if so I hope somewhere they have made that clear. As I have also not seen, although I am sure it has, a transfer of lease from TS to S7 Partnerships? If that hasn't happened doesn't it mean TS is still the guarantor, and if so does that affect us re the break clause and what is he actually getting out of it? Anyway. enough from me and my paranoia but the fact we continually have debates on here and all across social media, which is certainly more scathing about the new ownership than we are, does suggest that there is plenty of people who may not trust their motives yet we don't hear anything to allay those fears! |
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Post by addickryan on Sept 7, 2023 11:19:07 GMT
Appleton is such an underwhelming appointment, hope it’s not true
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Post by bexleyboy on Sept 7, 2023 11:29:29 GMT
One thing I'd like to add though the lack of any sort of communication from the leading shareholders doesn't help with supporters paranoia. I have said this on several occasions. The only information we get is the leaks via Reams (which are very welcome) and without them we would be very much in the dark. Whilst I take the point that the major investors don't want to involve themselves with the day to day running of the club you would think after spending circa £10m for the club they would at least want to make some sort of statement. I find it completely baffling that they don't unless there is something to hide, and there you have it, silence breeds paranoia! I agree with what has been said about the SMT and I do believe we are in a better place with their expertise. I also believe if TS had gone down this route the team/club would be in a better place than they currently are and there may not have been a need for him to sell. Let's face it spending money wasn't his problem but spending it in the right way certainly was and what he spent singlehandedly in a year is likely to outweigh what the major investors (remember they are allegedly very wealthy and we nicknamed him Skintguaard) will spend collectively. What we do know is they want to bring down operational costs to circa £1m-£2m which is more realistic than TS's "breakeven" but is still unlikely to be possible. And if/when it does fail what will they do then? I think we can all use our own paranoia to work that one out! Something else which I am unhappy about, and I apologise if that has been answered elsewhere or the gang of 4 have made a statement, and that is the lease on the ground and training ground. I seem to recall Reams saying that they spoke with the RD's early doors and it wasn't a problem and I have no reason to doubt that apart from the break clause that I believe the club can enforce next year. I assume they have no plans to enforce it and things will carry on as they are, if so I hope somewhere they have made that clear. As I have also not seen, although I am sure it has, a transfer of lease from TS to S7 Partnerships? If that hasn't happened doesn't it mean TS is still the guarantor, and if so does that affect us re the break clause and what is he actually getting out of it? Anyway. enough from me and my paranoia but the fact we continually have debates on here and all across social media, which is certainly more scathing about the new ownership than we are, does suggest that there is plenty of people who may not trust their motives yet we don't hear anything to allay those fears! The lease was transferred there was no problem with RD |
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Post by bexleyboy on Sept 7, 2023 11:34:07 GMT
Appleton is such an underwhelming appointment, hope it’s not true Why ? He has the experience of league one and has worked very well with young players |
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Post by 995632 on Sept 7, 2023 11:36:41 GMT
We need a good talented mananager and we need him quick, time is ebbing away. Still think we should have approached some out of work managers, there's some good talent amongst them and we are not in a position to be proud. If they're in work then realistically there are only maybe 30-40 candidates (no one from Prem/Champ/Top 15 L1 would join us) including L2 and National League. If they're L2 or below then we have no ambition/can't afford to pay anyone decent. If they're out of work then it's the endless cycle of "he's out of work for a reason"/"he's not good enough for us"... |
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Post by madz on Sept 7, 2023 11:37:23 GMT
Whether we end up with Appleton or Cowley or someone else, we need to support them. Whoever comes in is gonna have their work cut out. Working with players they haven't chosen, a team with no confidence, a fan base who will put a lot of pressure on them. On paper the job doesn't sound very appealing.
No appointment will please everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2023 11:38:19 GMT
If.its Appleton so be it I'll get behind him but out of all the other managers in the running for the job it is slightly underwhelming.
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Post by cafcjack83 on Sept 7, 2023 11:38:45 GMT
Wiki on top form again 😂
Charlton Athletic
On 7 September 2023, Appleton was appointed as Head Coach at Charlton Athletic. Des Buckingham, a latecomer to the intense search for Charlton’s next head coach, was due to be appointed. However, Buckingham decided to expand his chino empire instead, paving the way for Appleton to be appointed. It was rumoured 472 candidates were approached by Charlton, but only 2 had any interest.
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Post by addickryan on Sept 7, 2023 11:42:49 GMT
Appleton is such an underwhelming appointment, hope it’s not true Why ? He has the experience of league one and has worked very well with young players We could appoint Karel Fraeye for a second stint and you would find a positive |
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Post by addickryan on Sept 7, 2023 11:47:08 GMT
Appleton is not an Appointment made if you are trying to get out this division and beyond. Just seems like an average, play safe, move to me for an average league one team. Very uninspiring
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Post by Joinerama on Sept 7, 2023 11:59:10 GMT
Anyone looking at our capitulation against the likes of Port Vale and Bristol Rovers will be scared to accept the manager’s job. Having said that, if you get say a two year contract and are sacked after 4 months it’s still quite a lucrative option I imagine.
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Post by yorkshireaddick on Sept 7, 2023 11:59:36 GMT
Appleton is such an underwhelming appointment, hope it’s not true Why ? He has the experience of league one and has worked very well with young players I've got experience cooking. But that doesn't mean I'm a good chef does it? But Appleton does have experience for sure, In failure at football management. I don't understand why your threshold is so low for any incoming manager. Experience is worth fuck all. You forgot about Adkins? |
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Post by thesunisred on Sept 7, 2023 12:02:53 GMT
If it is Appleton it's hardly going to lift the mood. His overall record is probably the worst of all those that have (according to the bookies) been in the running. I just don't see the appeal.
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Post by kings hill addick on Sept 7, 2023 12:04:27 GMT
One thing I'd like to add though the lack of any sort of communication from the leading shareholders doesn't help with supporters paranoia. I have said this on several occasions. The only information we get is the leaks via Reams (which are very welcome) and without them we would be very much in the dark. My fear about so much of the messaging being released by Reams (and Dubai on CL) and one or two others is that CM can say whatever he likes without the risk of being accused of not delivering, and/or lying. A bit like the assurances that we would be bringing in a permanent striker (for a large fee) before the end of the window (and a few 'promises' that is will be 'this week'). I know that it is a complicated process getting player transfers over the line but, let's face it, very little of what was 'leaked' actually happened. In fact what we have seen has been more like what was uncovered by some fans that Reams, and the like, said was not the case. Right from the start we were told that CM was just a broker, yet fans had discovered that he was raising funds (in small tranches) across America. Then when the sale goes through CM has a shareholding (that may or may not have been funded from many small investors) and has a senior position at the club on a large salary. Someone, somewhere, was briefing fans to share misinformation. Now rumours are abound that the plan is to sell off all the players with any real value and sign frees, loans, cheap young players and promote from the academy. In January, when Scott was making the decisions, thinking that they were going to buy the club, we sold O'Connell for £300-400k, Stockley for something similar, and signed Hector (who hadn't played a game for two seasons) and Bonne who was every bit as bad as the fans expected him to be. This summer we signed Alfie May (well, Sandgaard did) and paid c. £150k for Terry Taylor and all the rest were loans or free transfers. Even though loan fees are a thing, none of the players we signed were going to get anywhere their club's first teams so I doubt we paid much* in terms of fees. It has been reported, elsewhere, that Man City always loan their players out for free. Then CM does an interview telling us that he can find £4-5m of savings and/or increased revenue. Like no one else has ever been trying to do that. I can't help thinking that the managers that are, apparently, turning us down are being told what the, actual, plan is and don't want it and/or don't think there is much chance of getting any success with it. If a manager was approached and told that there was serious money to spend and the opportunity to build something at one of the biggest clubs outside of the top two divisions they would be mad to turn it down. If they were told it was nothing more than a player harvesting operation where the fans would be demanding a top six finish with a bottom six budget (once net transfer fee revenue is taken into account) then they would predict the same future, for themselves, as Adkins, Jackson, Garner and Holden. One of the leaks that CM shared was that part of the reason Holden had to go was because he was refusing to spend the millions of pounds that were waiting to be used to sign players. Really? Time will tell but there is little (aside from leaked news that isn't, often, accurate) to give much confidence that success on the pitch is the likely outcome of the plan that the club is following. I do hope I'm wrong. *Bexley, feel free not to tell us what you think the fees were as no one believes you. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 7, 2023 12:31:45 GMT
I have said this on several occasions. The only information we get is the leaks via Reams (which are very welcome) and without them we would be very much in the dark. My fear about so much of the messaging being released by Reams (and Dubai on CL) and one or two others is that CM can say whatever he likes without the risk of being accused of not delivering, and/or lying. A bit like the assurances that we would be bringing in a permanent striker (for a large fee) before the end of the window (and a few 'promises' that is will be 'this week'). I know that it is a complicated process getting player transfers over the line but, let's face it, very little of what was 'leaked' actually happened. In fact what we have seen has been more like what was uncovered by some fans that Reams, and the like, said was not the case. Right from the start we were told that CM was just a broker, yet fans had discovered that he was raising funds (in small tranches) across America. Then when the sale goes through CM has a shareholding (that may or may not have been funded from many small investors) and has a senior position at the club on a large salary. Someone, somewhere, was briefing fans to share misinformation. Now rumours are abound that the plan is to sell off all the players with any real value and sign frees, loans, cheap young players and promote from the academy. In January, when Scott was making the decisions, thinking that they were going to buy the club, we sold O'Connell for £300-400k, Stockley for something similar, and signed Hector (who hadn't played a game for two seasons) and Bonne who was every bit as bad as the fans expected him to be. This summer we signed Alfie May (well, Sandgaard did) and paid c. £150k for Terry Taylor and all the rest were loans or free transfers. Even though loan fees are a thing, none of the players we signed were going to get anywhere their club's first teams so I doubt we paid much* in terms of fees. It has been reported, elsewhere, that Man City always loan their players out for free. Then CM does an interview telling us that he can find £4-5m of savings and/or increased revenue. Like no one else has ever been trying to do that. I can't help thinking that the managers that are, apparently, turning us down are being told what the, actual, plan is and don't want it and/or don't think there is much chance of getting any success with it. If a manager was approached and told that there was serious money to spend and the opportunity to build something at one of the biggest clubs outside of the top two divisions they would be mad to turn it down. If they were told it was nothing more than a player harvesting operation where the fans would be demanding a top six finish with a bottom six budget (once net transfer fee revenue is taken into account) then they would predict the same future, for themselves, as Adkins, Jackson, Garner and Holden. One of the leaks that CM shared was that part of the reason Holden had to go was because he was refusing to spend the millions of pounds that were waiting to be used to sign players. Really? Time will tell but there is little (aside from leaked news that isn't, often, accurate) to give much confidence that success on the pitch is the likely outcome of the plan that the club is following. I do hope I'm wrong. *Bexley, feel free not to tell us what you think the fees were as no one believes you. I didnt read beyond your first paragraph mate because you couldn't be more wrong. Just because I am not hyper critical of the new owners on here, don't think for a minute that words havev't been exchanged between me and one or two of them including CM. I am not a yes man. I campaigned for them to be given a chance and threw my weight behind them taking the club over. However I am no more happy about the recruitment and the start we have made than the next man is. It hasn't been good enough, it hasn't been acceptable and I also told them it's a been a cheap effort, one that I am not very impressed with. Believe me they have had both barrels and I didn't hold back. Don't underestimate me KHA, Im no fool and I say what I mean and mean what I say. I don't have to play that out in front of an audience. The Aaron Hayden comments seriously pissed me off and I had a right go at their obsession with youngsters and xg stats, whatever they are. They were left with a right mess of a club I get that and this is going to take time. In my opinion though many of the decisions they have made so far have been questionable which has invited criticism onto themselves and I don't believe they should be exempt from it given the strength of the squad and the performances. |
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