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Post by essexaddick on Jul 31, 2020 19:55:06 GMT
Let’s see what punishment they give Derby .. it should be worse then Sheff It won't be though, it will be the same.
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Post by seriouslyred on Jul 31, 2020 19:55:55 GMT
If the club had cleared up ALL o/s question re. the ESI takeover then we'd be in a far better place to challenge. As it is we are skating on thin ice. Given our current predicament, this had the potential to be a real lifeline assisting revenue streams and keeping the core of the squad together - players such as Williams, Matthews and Lockyer. Whilst letting go the weaker players and securing decent loans just as we do every summer. As posted before, RD has the resources and belief to take this all the way to the court of arbitration but the EFL have left this announcement as late as possible. Perhaps compensation is possible but the damage is done
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Post by Mundell on Jul 31, 2020 19:59:01 GMT
If the club had cleared up ALL o/s question re. the ESI takeover then we'd be in a far better place to challenge. As it is we are skating on thin ice. Given our current predicament, this had the potential to be a real lifeline assisting revenue streams and keeping the core of the squad together - players such as Williams, Matthews and Lockyer. Whilst letting go the weaker players and securing decent loans just as we do every summer. As posted before, RD has the resources and belief to take this all the way to the court of arbitration but the EFL have left this announcement as late as possible. Perhaps compensation is possible but the damage is done I agree. I still think the club should appeal though.
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Post by wellingaddick on Jul 31, 2020 19:59:59 GMT
'Considering an appeal?' ESI trying to worm a way out of their own self-inflicted mess. In reality, it was their ownership of the club that caused relegation. Personally I can't see any appeal being upheld, as Wednesday have been punished, even if it was a bottle job! How have they been punished? They get to stay in the Championship with the economic advantage that goes with it. They can spend what they want to build a team to get the required points to ensure they stay up next season. So where is the punishment? They havn't been punished at all. Relegation would have been punishment with loss of revenue. Like it or not, minus twelve points to start for next season represents a punishment (of sorts). Probably akin to fining Manchester City a couple of million for any discretions, ultimately meaningless as Wednesday will no doubt have the green light to sign players to overcome the deduction.
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Post by dartford36 on Jul 31, 2020 20:01:32 GMT
Good well done club a sports lawyer should be all over this Excellent - a job for Mr Farnell before he resigns! The overall decision was entirely predictable, unfortunately but maybe it’s a blessing in disguise as it should be easier to rebuild in League 1 than have to put together a squad for the Championship. Once the embargo is lifted of course.
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Post by revilo on Jul 31, 2020 20:20:24 GMT
Maybe the 12 point deduction to them next season is our punishment for the takeover saga. Has anyone thought of that:P
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Post by kings hill addick on Jul 31, 2020 20:30:57 GMT
If it relegates them, which is might then it is worse for them than going down this season.
They will struggle to sign players with that points deduction and they could end up going down anyway.
Then they will start 2021/22 in the third division.
We deserve to go down but it’s still heartbreaking that this lifeline has been snatched away from us.
It makes our relegation all the more disappointing. Had Barnsley not scored that late goal we would be looking at an easy run to stay up this season.
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Post by oldred on Jul 31, 2020 20:33:20 GMT
I’ll be surprised if we are too vocal in our indignation at the EFL, all the while we are in sensitive negotiations with them re our takeover.
As disgraceful as their decision is, there is no chance of them changing it.
I would’ve hoped for at least a transfer embargo on Wednesday, to prevent them from spending enough to survive next season, even with the points deduction. They could potentially avoid any punishment at all.
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Post by petetongthereturn on Jul 31, 2020 20:47:06 GMT
Of course they will.
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Post by mersthamred on Aug 1, 2020 7:39:34 GMT
Their advantage was this season, they should have points deducted this season.
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Post by bexleyboy on Aug 1, 2020 8:14:05 GMT
There are still outstanding issues involving Stevenage , Macclesfield, Derby and Birmingham plus now the appeal and legal action taken against Sheff and Wigan outcomes before the season can start ( or fixtures released )
What a total mess and a shambles the EFL have got themselves into
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Post by redmidland on Aug 1, 2020 9:14:00 GMT
I have this morning ( and for the 4th time in a week) contacted the EFL via their on-line form (they don't read emails sent to the enquiry box). Yesterday I did get a 'standard' response to one of my emails, but nothing to write home about. Below is a copy of the email I sent this morning. I intend to keep sending them communication on a regular basis-:
Good morning, yet again. Not only have you, as an organisation, been complicit in allowing the current situation at Charlton Athletic to drag on for nearly 8 months without ANY resolution as to the ownership of the club by East Street Investments, which in itself is a corporate failing, you have now shown no backbone or courage to properly sanction Sheffield Wednesday F.C for being found guilty of cheating. You have, once again, dodged the simple decision to relegate a team, who by cheating, were able to afford players, way beyond the means of other Championship Clubs, which gave them an unfair advantage against many of the other clubs. Your duty is NOT to reward cheats, but in this case you have. Instead of acting decisively and strongly, you have taken the cowardly decision to delay the points deduction to next season, hence NOT punishing Sheffield Wednesday for the cheating they undertook THIS season. It has taken 8 months and 17 days to come to this decision, and in your heart of hearts you know the decision is wrong. The points deduction should have taken place now, and Sheffield Wednesday should be playing in League 1 season 20/21. You were very quick to relegate Wigan Athletic via a points deduction imposed THIS season, you gave points deductions to BCFC last season, in the season, yet on this occasion you defer. The EFL have lost any sense of purpose and in many peoples eyes are verging on being corrupt. The situation you have made for yourselves currently can be overturned, by simply making the CORRECT decision. Sadly, I and many 1000's of other football fans across the country, do not expect you to grow a spine and reverse your decision and relegate Sheffield Wednesday now, and we hold you in complete contempt. The quicker a government led investigation into your running of the EFL is started the better, and the quicker you, as spinless cowards, will be looking for new positions, or better still be part of the unemployment figures. Your actions have been disgraceful. Yours
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Post by Mundell on Aug 1, 2020 9:26:11 GMT
As I noted in my post above, the decision to deduct points next season was taken by an independent commission, not by the EFL. What we don’t yet know is why that was their conclusion. I’d bet that when we do we’ll be even more angry.
I’ve never seen an explanation of why the EFL (and the Premier League) delegates decisions like this. It’s possible that given the EFL is simply a member’s club that there is some logic in having an independent panel determine whether one of the members should be disciplined in some way given that other members are likely to be impacted too.
However, there are two obvious flaws in such delegation. First, the EFL loses completely any ability to apply judgement, to signal it’s values or send messages of any kind. When there is no room for judgement and flexibility, decision making is always prone to being dysfunctional. In truth, points deductions are random in their impact. This season Wigan have been relegated, subject to appeal, while last season Birmingham escaped scott-free. That’s a problem, but it might be argued that it creates a major disincentive to cheat because the punishment might be severe, depending on the circumstances. However, if this particular panel has concluded that relegation is ‘unfair’, because Wednesday had no warning, then it might have driven a coach and horses through an important principle. A principle the EFL has now lost control of. That was the logic when West Ham got off by the way.
Second, the independent panel needs to be competent. I recall reading the Tevez judgement and I was appalled. It would have been hilarious were it not so infuriating. It was clear that the QC who chaired the commission was clueless. Worse though was the fact that he wasn’t accountable. We don’t even know who is responsible for the Wednesday decision. That’s appalling. No accountability. No comeback.
Frankly, it’s a complete shit show. Heads will not roll. There will be no consequences. The nearest Rick Parry will come any public accountability is likely to be another interview on TalkShite where if he plays his cards right Simon Jordan will do all the talking anyway. He certainly won’t get asked any probing questions.
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Post by oldred on Aug 1, 2020 9:26:20 GMT
I have this morning ( and for the 4th time in a week) contacted the EFL via their on-line form (they don't read emails sent to the enquiry box). Yesterday I did get a 'standard' response to one of my emails, but nothing to write home about. Below is a copy of the email I sent this morning. I intend to keep sending them communication on a regular basis-: Good morning, yet again. Not only have you, as an organisation, been complicit in allowing the current situation at Charlton Athletic to drag on for nearly 8 months without ANY resolution as to the ownership of the club by East Street Investments, which in itself is a corporate failing, you have now shown no backbone or courage to properly sanction Sheffield Wednesday F.C for being found guilty of cheating. You have, once again, dodged the simple decision to relegate a team, who by cheating, were able to afford players, way beyond the means of other Championship Clubs, which gave them an unfair advantage against many of the other clubs. Your duty is NOT to reward cheats, but in this case you have. Instead of acting decisively and strongly, you have taken the cowardly decision to delay the points deduction to next season, hence NOT punishing Sheffield Wednesday for the cheating they undertook THIS season. It has taken 8 months and 17 days to come to this decision, and in your heart of hearts you know the decision is wrong. The points deduction should have taken place now, and Sheffield Wednesday should be playing in League 1 season 20/21. You were very quick to relegate Wigan Athletic via a points deduction imposed THIS season, you gave points deductions to BCFC last season, in the season, yet on this occasion you defer. The EFL have lost any sense of purpose and in many peoples eyes are verging on being corrupt. The situation you have made for yourselves currently can be overturned, by simply making the CORRECT decision. Sadly, I and many 1000's of other football fans across the country, do not expect you to grow a spine and reverse your decision and relegate Sheffield Wednesday now, and we hold you in complete contempt. The quicker a government led investigation into your running of the EFL is started the better, and the quicker you, as spinless cowards, will be looking for new positions, or better still be part of the unemployment figures. Your actions have been disgraceful. Yours Good for you red, they should be receiving thousands of messages like this, but sadly they probably won’t, and more sadly it probably won’t have any effect. Any change to their incompetent running of the lea will need to come by a government directive, which will need many signatures on a petition. I hope that it will happen, but Im not over confident. All it needs really, is good people, who are good at their job, and have some backbone .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 13:19:43 GMT
Good for you red, they should be receiving thousands of messages like this, but sadly they probably won’t, and more sadly it probably won’t have any effect. Any change to their incompetent running of the lea will need to come by a government directive, which will need many signatures on a petition. I hope that it will happen, but Im not over confident. All it needs really, is good people, who are good at their job, and have some backbone . I too seriously doubt that challenges to this decision will have any effect. Safe to assume as well that a legal challenge by CAFC will be costly, and we're not exactly rolling in it right now. But low likelihood of success doesn't mean the cause isn't just. Sometimes the right thing needs to be done even if the effort ultimately ends in defeat. If the Club decides to challenge, I wish them the best of luck.
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Post by aaronaldo on Aug 1, 2020 14:54:00 GMT
We need to get our own shit in order, rather than appeal a decision that has zero chance of changing.
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Post by petetongthereturn on Aug 1, 2020 15:02:05 GMT
Farnell will take it on for the club for a fee I guess.
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Post by petecafc on Aug 1, 2020 15:30:07 GMT
We need to get our own shit in order, rather than appeal a decision that has zero chance of changing. The decision won’t change, we will be playing in League one next season, but the club should be looking to sue Sheffield Wednesday / the EFL for loss of revenue associated with relegation. I think given the obvious delaying tactics, the clear inconsistencies when looking at other sanctions applied in the past (Birmingham for instance) and the fact that this being carried over into next season gives Sheffield Wednesday a very good chance of being able to avoid any form of real punishment means we have very strong grounds for doing so. That extra few million could very easily fund promotion from league one if we’re able to get our own problems in order.
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Post by essexaddick on Aug 1, 2020 17:45:34 GMT
I have this morning ( and for the 4th time in a week) contacted the EFL via their on-line form (they don't read emails sent to the enquiry box). Yesterday I did get a 'standard' response to one of my emails, but nothing to write home about. Below is a copy of the email I sent this morning. I intend to keep sending them communication on a regular basis-: Good morning, yet again. Not only have you, as an organisation, been complicit in allowing the current situation at Charlton Athletic to drag on for nearly 8 months without ANY resolution as to the ownership of the club by East Street Investments, which in itself is a corporate failing, you have now shown no backbone or courage to properly sanction Sheffield Wednesday F.C for being found guilty of cheating. You have, once again, dodged the simple decision to relegate a team, who by cheating, were able to afford players, way beyond the means of other Championship Clubs, which gave them an unfair advantage against many of the other clubs. Your duty is NOT to reward cheats, but in this case you have. Instead of acting decisively and strongly, you have taken the cowardly decision to delay the points deduction to next season, hence NOT punishing Sheffield Wednesday for the cheating they undertook THIS season. It has taken 8 months and 17 days to come to this decision, and in your heart of hearts you know the decision is wrong. The points deduction should have taken place now, and Sheffield Wednesday should be playing in League 1 season 20/21. You were very quick to relegate Wigan Athletic via a points deduction imposed THIS season, you gave points deductions to BCFC last season, in the season, yet on this occasion you defer. The EFL have lost any sense of purpose and in many peoples eyes are verging on being corrupt. The situation you have made for yourselves currently can be overturned, by simply making the CORRECT decision. Sadly, I and many 1000's of other football fans across the country, do not expect you to grow a spine and reverse your decision and relegate Sheffield Wednesday now, and we hold you in complete contempt. The quicker a government led investigation into your running of the EFL is started the better, and the quicker you, as spinless cowards, will be looking for new positions, or better still be part of the unemployment figures. Your actions have been disgraceful. Yours Well done. It won't change their minds but great that they are told what football fans think of them.
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Post by 1978sussex on Aug 1, 2020 19:01:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 19:10:15 GMT
The current season is concluded...
What have the EFL pen-pushers been doing since last year? Even allowing for the lockdown they've had months to apply a points deduction. The re-start gave them a golden opportunity to get it done.
No sense of urgency about anything. Too many long lunches and afternoons playing golf. And fiddling while Rome burns.
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Post by oldred on Aug 1, 2020 20:16:57 GMT
The current season is concluded... What have the EFL pen-pushers been doing since last year? Even allowing for the lockdown they've had months to apply a points deduction. The re-start gave them a golden opportunity to get it done. No sense of urgency about anything. Too many long lunches and afternoons playing golf. And fiddling while Rome burns. I believe the EFL should be held accountable, and be made to explain, why the penalty took so long to be announced, and even longer to apply. Its almost as if they delayed it deliberately until was too late.........surely not.
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Post by Mundell on Aug 1, 2020 20:21:06 GMT
As far as I know the Independent Disciplinary Commission hasn’t yet said why it decided the points deduction will apply next season. However, if Peter Varney is right and their reasoning was that the season had finished by the time they’d made a decision that’s going to point a flamethrower at the controversy.
First, the Championship season hasn’t finished because the playoffs have not yet completed. Second, and perhaps even more significantly, we have been led to believe that the commission met in June which gave it at least three weeks to conclude its deliberations and announce their decision before the last round of Championship fixtures on July 22d. This begs the question what were they doing during those three weeks? When did they realise that the July 22nd deadline would determine whether Wednesday would be punished next season or risk relegation this? How did that impact the timetabling of their work?
As I noted above, these wretched independent panels appear to have no accountability and we’re unlikely to get direct answers to these questions. However, if the club does decide to appeal these might be the areas to probe. It’s possible the panel created a huge conflict of interest. How did it manage that?
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Post by Mundell on Aug 1, 2020 20:23:49 GMT
The current season is concluded... What have the EFL pen-pushers been doing since last year? Even allowing for the lockdown they've had months to apply a points deduction. The re-start gave them a golden opportunity to get it done. No sense of urgency about anything. Too many long lunches and afternoons playing golf. And fiddling while Rome burns. I believe the EFL should be held accountable, and be made to explain, why the penalty took so long to be announced, and even longer to apply. Its almost as if they delayed it deliberately until was too late.........surely not. That’s certainly an area to probe oldred as I noted in my post above. If Varney is right it’s to be hoped both the EFL and the independent disciplinary commission are really going to feel some heat.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 20:33:46 GMT
I have this morning ( and for the 4th time in a week) contacted the EFL via their on-line form (they don't read emails sent to the enquiry box). Yesterday I did get a 'standard' response to one of my emails, but nothing to write home about. Below is a copy of the email I sent this morning. I intend to keep sending them communication on a regular basis-: Good morning, yet again. Not only have you, as an organisation, been complicit in allowing the current situation at Charlton Athletic to drag on for nearly 8 months without ANY resolution as to the ownership of the club by East Street Investments, which in itself is a corporate failing, you have now shown no backbone or courage to properly sanction Sheffield Wednesday F.C for being found guilty of cheating. You have, once again, dodged the simple decision to relegate a team, who by cheating, were able to afford players, way beyond the means of other Championship Clubs, which gave them an unfair advantage against many of the other clubs. Your duty is NOT to reward cheats, but in this case you have. Instead of acting decisively and strongly, you have taken the cowardly decision to delay the points deduction to next season, hence NOT punishing Sheffield Wednesday for the cheating they undertook THIS season. It has taken 8 months and 17 days to come to this decision, and in your heart of hearts you know the decision is wrong. The points deduction should have taken place now, and Sheffield Wednesday should be playing in League 1 season 20/21. You were very quick to relegate Wigan Athletic via a points deduction imposed THIS season, you gave points deductions to BCFC last season, in the season, yet on this occasion you defer. The EFL have lost any sense of purpose and in many peoples eyes are verging on being corrupt. The situation you have made for yourselves currently can be overturned, by simply making the CORRECT decision. Sadly, I and many 1000's of other football fans across the country, do not expect you to grow a spine and reverse your decision and relegate Sheffield Wednesday now, and we hold you in complete contempt. The quicker a government led investigation into your running of the EFL is started the better, and the quicker you, as spinless cowards, will be looking for new positions, or better still be part of the unemployment figures. Your actions have been disgraceful. Yours Brilliant, I couldn't have put it better myself. Keep on with the pressure on both the EFL and ESI.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 23:05:07 GMT
Sorry if I'm covering old ground.
The majority of the football world (except the EFL) seem to agree that if Shef Wed (or Derby) have benefited from any wrong doing the penalty surely applies to the season they gained an unfair advantage.
I assume Sheff Wed have obeyed the law of the land and the sale of their ground meets with the necessary audit and HMCE rules etc.
If there is no illegal practices, the issue is more to do with the rules that EFL members must adhere to. I think I’m right in saying the courts wont get unnecessarily involved in how a private group (EFL members) deal with internal disputes (assuming no breaches of the law).
Therefore, it seems to me that it is up to the EFL to either reconsider or an emergency meeting be called by EFL members to discus if the EFL rules have been correctly applied.
I suggest EFL are asked;
If Sheff Wed (or Derby) had been promoted would the 12 point penalty apply in the Premier League (meaning they would massively benefit financially despite breaching EFL rules).
Or would they the EFL have excluded Sheff Wed or Derby from the play-off’s if they had qualified?
Also, surely Birmingham having a points deduction previously has set a precedent (the same offence)
I struggle to see how the EFL can argue their rules probably allow both a penalty deduction for a play-off qualifier but not if a club could be relegated.
The season doesn’t finish until the play-off final is completed (I’m sure the EFL said this recently) so I can’t accept the door is quite shut.
Unfortunately I don’t think a court case will solve matters, it is more likely that the EFL has to be challenged and persuaded of this moral miscarriage of justice.
Its incredibly ironic that Katriene Meire probably knows the full story (and this might actually be the reason she hastily left Sheff Wed!).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 11:43:37 GMT
Go on strike and refuse to play in Div 1 you will have the football world behind you Justice for Charlton
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Post by earlpurple on Aug 2, 2020 12:08:56 GMT
It appears that the main seasons affected were from 2015 to 2018. In the first of those season we were relegated but although we were 3rd from bottom, we were so far away from Sheffield Wednesday that unless they had been punished that season directly with relegation we'd have been too far away. They did just get into the playoffs and beat Brighton to get into the final but then lost to Hull.
So a points deduction taking them out of the playoff places would have benefitted whoever came 7th that season (actually that was Ipswich) but had no effect on where Sheff Wed actually ended up playing the following season.
The next 2 seasons we were in League One so it didn't affect us at all.
However during that time it may have helped them to build a squad that included players who were playing for them this season.
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Post by canterburyaddick on Aug 2, 2020 14:16:29 GMT
A well known fan and friend of mine, who doesn't post himself asked me to put up the following to see if anyone else could comment on his point.
"Could Roland have a claim against the E.F.L. and/or Sheffield Wednesday for the £1.5 million non-relegation bonus which he has been deprived of due to the E.F.L.’s decision to apply the points deduction next season rather than this? Roland has in the past criticised the Football Authorities for their laissez faire attitude towards the Financial Fair Play Regulations and has both the resources and financial incentive to take to the Sheffield Wednesday decision to the Court of Arbitration if necessary, to ensure that fair play actually prevails as intended."
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Post by kings hill addick on Aug 2, 2020 15:02:43 GMT
A well known fan and friend of mine, who doesn't post himself asked me to put up the following to see if anyone else could comment on his point. "Could Roland have a claim against the E.F.L. and/or Sheffield Wednesday for the £1.5 million non-relegation bonus which he has been deprived of due to the E.F.L.’s decision to apply the points deduction next season rather than this? Roland has in the past criticised the Football Authorities for their laissez faire attitude towards the Financial Fair Play Regulations and has both the resources and financial incentive to take to the Sheffield Wednesday decision to the Court of Arbitration if necessary, to ensure that fair play actually prevails as intended." He could. However, he could, potentially, also go after them for any of the £50m he loses if the club are relegated. Based on how much money he has and how little the EFL has a big enough potential compensation payout could incentivise the EFL to appeal the committee’s decision and insist that the points are deducted this season. Also if Sheff Wed appeal they could bring the penalty forward just to punish them for the appeal.
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