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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 14:05:26 GMT
Great read guys...feels like a proper adult discussion, which ultimately proves that banning and censorship hold back evolution.
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razil
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Post by razil on Mar 15, 2015 9:47:40 GMT
I often coordinate distribution of TNT with Rick, because as a free mag we impact him, our policy has always been to promote all charlton fan activity, thus we avoid competing with him for positions and the like. To say Rick or anyone else on the mythical but in reality non existent g21 is simply mischief making by people who want to further their own agenda.
The Trust is and always was open to views of all fans and groups from East Kent, to 'G21'.
and once more the Trust Board is balanced, and has new members including recent additions of the most excellent Rik old Old, Heather, and Steve Clarke and daughter Alex, who fully accept the ethos about giving fans a voice and representing their members, rather than furthering their own views, nor engaging in petty battles and point scoring.
those present including a rep from here at the woolwich meeting will know that the meeting was far more balanced than some might suggest
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Post by seriouslyred on Mar 15, 2015 11:05:46 GMT
The meeting was indeed balanced and apposite for that point in time. The fact that one or two stated they were in favour of being in League 1 if that were the cause and/or result of a Duchatelet exit in no way reflects the feelings of the meeting, the Trust or the wider fanbase.
G21 was a year ago. It was a mistake in many people's eyes and it didn't meet again. Ben Hayes was criticising the Trust long before that and he continues long after. His taunts over on CL shows his lack of perspective and a general lack of respect for 1,200 members and an email / twitter network of 4,000+ fans.
I think the Trust could do a lot better to: 1) ask fans the right questions, and play back the views of thousands, 2) appraise the transformation of the squad 3) map out the sustainable business case for pushing on towards the play-offs and the cost of showing no ambition
The third item was at the core of the Leeds Trust campaign - rather than just attack Ken Bates, they criticised home for building a Leeds media empire of radio and newspapers instead of focusing on the squad.
Back here we have a lot of noisy contributors banging on about the network and January 2014. Still! And if you asked fans about the network I expect many responses would be quite negative.
This because M.Duchatelet and Staprix have said very little about the ambition and the personnel. And the naysayers including the daily Mail have had a field day with anti-european fear mongering.
Bottom line is that this summer will show us the real ambition the owner holds for the club. Many are already speculating about player retention for this will be announced in just two-three months.
How does that link to the Trust? Well if they start focusing on looking forwards to 2015-16 and forget about the past they might have a chance as pitching themselves as a proactive force representing fans with which the Club can engage.
And they might actually find themselves in tune with fans who can see an improving squad and a chance to push on into the top eight. Not based on yesterday but on the last seven games and the forthcoming window coupled with the biggest prize in European football and the richest owner in our history.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 11:13:22 GMT
Meire and Duchatelet are not interested in talking to the supporters, that has been covered numerous times.
Meire puts on the make up and smiles at fans meetings, why?
The Evening Standard article was enough for me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 11:57:47 GMT
The meeting was indeed balanced and apposite for that point in time. The fact that one or two stated they were in favour of being in League 1 if that were the cause and/or result of a Duchatelet exit in no way reflects the feelings of the meeting, the Trust or the wider fanbase. G21 was a year ago. It was a mistake in many people's eyes and it didn't meet again. Ben Hayes was criticising the Trust long before that and he continues long after. His taunts over on CL shows his lack of perspective and a general lack of respect for 1,200 members and an email / twitter network of 4,000+ fans. I think the Trust could do a lot better to: 1) ask fans the right questions, and play back the views of thousands, 2) appraise the transformation of the squad 3) map out the sustainable business case for pushing on towards the play-offs and the cost of showing no ambition The third item was at the core of the Leeds Trust campaign - rather than just attack Ken Bates, they criticised home for building a Leeds media empire of radio and newspapers instead of focusing on the squad. Back here we have a lot of noisy contributors banging on about the network and January 2014. Still! And if you asked fans about the network I expect many responses would be quite negative. This because M.Duchatelet and Staprix have said very little about the ambition and the personnel. And the naysayers including the daily Mail have had a field day with anti-european fear mongering. Bottom line is that this summer will show us the real ambition the owner holds for the club. Many are already speculating about player retention for this will be announced in just two-three months. How does that link to the Trust? Well if they start focusing on looking forwards to 2015-16 and forget about the past they might have a chance as pitching themselves as a proactive force representing fans with which the Club can engage. And they might actually find themselves in tune with fans who can see an improving squad and a chance to push on into the top eight. Not based on yesterday but on the last seven games and the forthcoming window coupled with the biggest prize in European football and the richest owner in our history. Do you not get tired of writing the same paragraphs over and over again?
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Post by seriouslyred on Mar 15, 2015 12:40:04 GMT
Therapeutic mate! Occasionally I write different shite...and sometimes someone challenges on issues not personality or anti-belgian rhetoric. But yes I take your general point
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Post by overthetop on Mar 15, 2015 13:25:25 GMT
Are you serious? The G21 doesn't exist?
Of course it does, hovering around in the background, now with a signatory actually chair of the Trust.
They're like the Provos to the Trust's Sinn Fein.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 14:52:00 GMT
To summarise.
If Ms Meire could lower herself to have chats with a table of say three people from the TRUST twice a season, would that be a good step forward?
Surely that is no hardship and could be mutually agreeable, and potentially productive.
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Post by seriouslyred on Mar 15, 2015 18:30:31 GMT
Are you serious? The G21 doesn't exist? Of course it does, hovering around in the background, now with a signatory actually chair of the Trust. They're like the Provos to the Trust's Sinn Fein. I don't know all of the 21 but three of them were on the Trust board at the time and several of them were probably Trust members. It was a mistake as pointed out by many at the time. The point is that anyone of them could have taken a more active role in the Trust up to that point. And afterwards some have taken a more active role. Up to the board to find a relationship with the club... Up to the members to challenge the board if they don't like the people or the direction. The Trust is coming under a fair bit of pressure right now on message boards. I don't like the Sinn Fein / provisional IRA comparison because that was literally a matter of life and death which is trivialised by what is essentially trivial supporter politics. More importantly it presumes that G21 is one group with one agenda. I've met some and they have disparate opinions. Having said that I believe the Trust could do with new faces...who are younger and fresher.
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Post by squareball on Mar 15, 2015 19:34:58 GMT
To summarise. If Ms Meire could lower herself to have chats with a table of say three people from the TRUST twice a season, would that be a good step forward? Surely that is no hardship and could be mutually agreeable, and potentially productive. If the trust could raise themselves to show her a bit of respect then maybe she will. Trying to go over her head is a non starter Im afraid.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 19:42:33 GMT
To summarise. If Ms Meire could lower herself to have chats with a table of say three people from the TRUST twice a season, would that be a good step forward? Surely that is no hardship and could be mutually agreeable, and potentially productive. If the trust could raise themselves to show her a bit of respect then maybe she will. Trying to go over her head is a non starter Im afraid. Comes across all sweetness and light, but reckon respect has to be a two way thing. She lost a lot of credibility with the events surrounding the Luzon appointment.
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razil
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Post by razil on Mar 15, 2015 20:21:14 GMT
The Trust has had a recent injection of talent, Alex is female and 25 plus 3 other newbies. Although I am sure there is room for more young talent
The Trust was very respectful when requesting a chat, as I've mentioned several times, she said no thats why it arranged a public meeting
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 20:26:05 GMT
The Trust has had a recent injection of talent, Alex is female and 25 plus 3 other newbies. Although I am sure there is room for more young talent The Trust was very respectful when requesting a chat, as I've mentioned several times, she said no thats why it arranged a public meeting And I mean this in a supporting way...................It begs the question why she would not talk to the TRUST but go to Bromley? I suppose she would get an easier ride over there.
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Post by overthetop on Mar 15, 2015 21:27:54 GMT
The Trust has had a recent injection of talent, Alex is female and 25 plus 3 other newbies. Although I am sure there is room for more young talent Who also happens to be Steve Clarke's daughter. When was the vote to replace you as Chair Razil?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 22:17:33 GMT
The Trust is and always was open to views of all fans and groups from East Kent, to 'G21'...those present including a rep from here at the woolwich meeting will know that the meeting was far more balanced than some might suggest But at some point you have to decide what the Trust actually believes in and stands for; the Trust cannot represent "all fans and groups from East Kent, to 'G21' ", becuse those groups all have different - and sometimes diametrically clashing - views. To put it more bluntly, the Trust can either be a body that seeks to work with the club and avoids public conflict; or it can put itself in direct opposition to the club, by organising meetings and publishing magazine articles that the club will inevitably regard as hostile acts. Arguably we need both; but one body cannot do it: the G21/VOTV types want the owner and his network to f*** off out of 'our' club, while East Kent supporters appear to be broadly supportive of the new set-up. I now have no idea what the Trust believes in or stands for. Does it want les Belges out, taking their rebarbative network with them; or does it support the broad direction in which the club is now going? What I do know is that it cannot represent both views. And worse: by putting itself in a position where Katrien feels she has been "disrespected" by the Trust and therefore wants nothing to do with it, mainstream supporters have been badly let down. I'd urge the Trust to concentrate on working with the club to give supporters a voice, and leave the agit-prop antics to G21/VOTV.
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Post by squareball on Mar 16, 2015 9:08:21 GMT
The Trust has had a recent injection of talent, Alex is female and 25 plus 3 other newbies. Although I am sure there is room for more young talent The Trust was very respectful when requesting a chat, as I've mentioned several times, she said no thats why it arranged a public meeting It may have been a respectful request but the lack of respect is obvious when one reads all the comments that preceded the request imo. Its less about how you ask , more about why you ask. I hope the trust doesn't damage things for other supporters by boycotting season tickets or the like. That could lead to increased ticket prices for the rest of us and poorer players on cheaper salaries to compensate for the loss in season ticket sales. I can't see RD losing out too much financially but Charlton fans may well do. Hopefully the new trust board will be sensible for the rest of the fans sake, the ones they don't represent.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 14:17:08 GMT
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Post by overthetop on Mar 16, 2015 14:46:15 GMT
"Error 404 - Page not found! The page you are trying to reach does not exist, or has been moved. Please use the menus or the search box to find what you are looking for". Wiped from history. Who did he beat? Kim Jong-il?
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Post by overthetop on Mar 16, 2015 14:56:00 GMT
"The CAS Trust board are pleased to announce that, at a meeting of the board on Monday 23rd February and in accordance with Supporters' Trust rules, Steve Clarke was unanimously elected as chair of CAS Trust to succeed Barnie Razzell on his resignation from the board on 28th February".
So Steve Clarke was elected Trust Board Chair five days BEFORE Barnie resigned.
It makes the appointment of Luzon look positively glacial.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 16:30:21 GMT
Rogue space in that link I think, corrected but link is also here. Barnie gave notice to the board that he would step down from 28 February. As a result, Steve was elected to Chair with effect from then.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 16, 2015 17:18:20 GMT
If the trust could raise themselves to show her a bit of respect then maybe she will. Trying to go over her head is a non starter Im afraid. Comes across all sweetness and light, but reckon respect has to be a two way thing. She lost a lot of credibility with the events surrounding the Luzon appointment. Not as much credibility as 11,000 Charlton fans turning up to watch the side after winning five of the last 6. I couldn't make it I was ill but the stay away fans are a joke, they can disappear for good for all I care, I have never experienced such a childish living in the past group of so called fans. The sooner they fuck off to Bournemouth or Huddersfield the better, problem is they won't see Powell or Kermorgant waiting at the station for them!
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Post by overthetop on Mar 16, 2015 17:57:40 GMT
Rogue space in that link I think, corrected but link is also here. Barnie gave notice to the board that he would step down from 28 February. As a result, Steve was elected to Chair with effect from then. Ok. I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Barnie gave notice to the Board that he would be stepping down. Surely this then means the membership are informed and an open election is held with a an opportunity for any member to stand for the position of Chair - and indeed the other Board positions that have just been filled? Did I miss the opportunity to apply to be a candidate for any of these positions? What exactly is the election policy of the Trust? I assume as the trust are a member of Supporters Direct they comply with the rules and regulations and are constitutionally democratic as per clause 4.4? I may be wrong, but the Constitution of The Board clauses from 57 to 68 seem not to have been followed.
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Post by overthetop on Mar 16, 2015 18:04:14 GMT
Rogue space in that link I think, corrected but link is also here. Barnie gave notice to the board that he would step down from 28 February. As a result, Steve was elected to Chair with effect from then. Something is not right here. The more I look into it the more is seems to smell. Barnie's resignation wasn't officially announced until 1st March. Yet the Board had 'unanimously' voted in his replacement six days previously. Can someone from the Trust board please clarify?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 19:30:31 GMT
Comes across all sweetness and light, but reckon respect has to be a two way thing. She lost a lot of credibility with the events surrounding the Luzon appointment. Not as much credibility as 11,000 Charlton fans turning up to watch the side after winning five of the last 6. I couldn't make it I was ill but the stay away fans are a joke, they can disappear for good for all I care, I have never experienced such a childish living in the past group of so called fans. The sooner they fuck off to Bournemouth or Huddersfield the better, problem is they won't see Powell or Kermorgant waiting at the station for them! For various reasons our support has been dwindling for years.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 19:49:56 GMT
so the ballot was put to the fiver paying members was it ? then all votes collected and counted , the "election" and post was advertised and all members made aware of the vacancy , ? And some have the front to dog shit the club re Luzons appointment , disgraceful. Am I right in thinking that the ex fans director has now been appointed to the "trust" ? talk about nepotism ! Did it not cross one of your minds that ol Steevie boy might have his own agenda, missing his table topping chin wags with Tricky Dicky. ? It seems that the "Trust" cant go more than 10 days without loosing more credibility, whats the next "big idea" , ? I'd like to point you at this from the BBC , Clark blowing his trumpet making demands of RD www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31503903This article is dated the 18th Feb , were the "Trust" aware of Steve's interview and self appointment as figure head and "mouth piece" for Charlton Fans. I for one, and so do many more I suspect so called "Charlton Fans", dont demand and dont want an explanation of "whats going on" , its none of our business ! Some quotes, and I assume these were cleared before the interview with the BBC SC - "The aim is to engage Roland in conversation and find out what is going on," fan Steve Clarke told BBC London. SC - "We are keen to speak to him and also gauge fans' views." Steve , who are "we" whom are you representing in this interview 23rd Feb ? SC - "The club are run as part of a network, with Standard Liege being the biggest name. I'm not entirely sure that is a system that works," said Clarke. Why Steve, why dont it work ? What qualifies you to make this statement , have you scouted do you have your coaches badge ? SC - "The guys at Liege are pretty desperate too," he added. Steve are you implying "we" are desperate ? Are we ? enjoy the article, another slice of "trust" credibility bites the dust !!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 0:22:16 GMT
If the BBC interview with the new chair is indeed the view of the Trust, they have dealt themselves another self-inflicted wound.
What is all this demanding explanations from M Duchatalet?
It's kindergarten posturing and Steve Clarke's words will only ensure that neither the owner or Katrien will engage with him or anyione else from the Trust in any way whatsoever. It's really depressing the way the Trust -which could be such a force for good - keeps backing itself further up a cul de sac by its own political naivete.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 7:25:12 GMT
The public meeting was a giant con, designed solely to boost CASTs flagging membership and get loads of lovely fivers rolling into their coffers. What precisely did CAST do after the public meeting? Nothing. Now the "thought leaders" are falling out with each other like a bunch of school girls, eclipsed even by portly Ben Hayes at Bromley Addicks who broke a world record last week by leading 24 spontaneous standing ovations during Meire's meeting with them.
We have had a bunch of craven arse licker fans around the Club for years, you really don't need to hand over a fiver before you get to enjoy laughing at them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 7:28:19 GMT
Comes across all sweetness and light, but reckon respect has to be a two way thing. She lost a lot of credibility with the events surrounding the Luzon appointment. Not as much credibility as 11,000 Charlton fans turning up to watch the side after winning five of the last 6. I couldn't make it I was ill but the stay away fans are a joke, they can disappear for good for all I care, I have never experienced such a childish living in the past group of so called fans. The sooner they fuck off to Bournemouth or Huddersfield the better, problem is they won't see Powell or Kermorgant waiting at the station for them! 10 out of 10 for bare faced cheek, Reams. You go to three home games a season, and have previously posted on here asking for freebies off other fans, as quote "I will never pay to watch Charlton" Self awareness really is not your strong suit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 8:50:42 GMT
If the BBC interview with the new chair is indeed the view of the Trust, they have dealt themselves another self-inflicted wound. What is all this demanding explanations from M Duchatalet? It's kindergarten posturing and Steve Clarke's words will only ensure that neither the owner or Katrien will engage with him or anyione else from the Trust in any way whatsoever. It's really depressing the way the Trust -which could be such a force for good - keeps backing itself further up a cul de sac by its own political naivete. It also alludes to Steve being in place BEFORE he was given the position, if he wasn't then whos he representing, where are the figures and did he clear this knowing full well he was about to be appointed into the "Trust" ? . Just makes you wonder how long Steve has been guiding the misguided and quite frankly making up stories ! Charlton & the Trust needs to rid it self of hangers on and yesteryear politics if its going to be successful, one has made a start in doing this, the other seems intent on preserving the past. In fact the "Trust" appears to be somewhat untrustworthy, unreliable, and underhanded in its "selection" of committee members and appointment of personnel. Like a punch drunk boxer at the end of 12 rounds, the "Trust" reels from one side of the ring to the other in a desperate attempt to catch the eye of sympathetic supporters who cant wait to jump in the ring at the end of the fight, desperate is an understatement.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 9:03:51 GMT
@spottydog You should not be too surprised. CAST was built on a lie - that quote "flats were being built on the Valley". This whopper was laughed off by ex thought-leader Barney 'Creosote' razil at the time, as over exuberance. CAST's latest dalliance with democracy reminds me of the old joke about elections in Putin's Russia...."how big do you think your majority will be?"...."not sure yet, I haven't finishing filling in the ballot papers".
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