Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 10:24:02 GMT
The appointment of officers on the Supporters' Trust board is the responsibility of the elected board. This is very usual for a member organisation, and our rules are in line with the Supporters' Direct model. They're also published on our website for everyone.
Criticism of a live BBC radio interview is fair enough, but he's really not said anything controversial. So we'd like to speak to RD - that's not news, that's been the case for at least as long as I've been on the Trust board. So he's not sure the network really works - well you only have to read back on this forum a few weeks, he's not alone.
As for flagging membership, the public meeting didn't put on many members at all - we've added just over 100 in the month since the meeting - and we were already the third largest Supporters' Trust in the Championship. I guess if Royston says it enough someone might believe it, but it isn't true.
As for the rest - seriously guys, happy to accept criticism but some of it really scrapes the barrel. Are you so desperate to slag the Trust that you have to make up stuff about its individuals?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 10:39:06 GMT
Rik,
I'm not in the least interested in the individuals involved and , unlike some, I am not questioning their motives. But I am questioning their tactics because I am concerned about the Trust shunting itself up a cul de dac and seemingly having no idea how to reverse out of it.
The Trust wants dialogue with the owner (we'll overlook demanding explanantions) , but organises meetings and publishes magazines that provide platforms to attack him. If you are serious about wanting a dialogue that's not the way to achieve it and the politics are naive beyond belief.
As a matter of interest, does the Trust now accept that Katrien Meire is the person it should be seeking dialogue with? Or is the Trust still disrespectfully insisting she's just the monkey and you will only talk to the organ-grinder (and will travel to Belgium to do so, according to what the new Trust chair has told the BBC)?
Has the Trust approached Meire and said that it apologies if she feels disrespected and that no such slight was intended? That would be a start...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 10:41:03 GMT
rik, whats been "made up" ? you never answered if he had permission from the "Trust" to do the interview knowing full well he was about to be appointed.
The "Trust" brings absolutely nothing to the table, its negative and destructive, especially by appointing people with known agendas with the current owners.
I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that the "Trust" has lost any credibility, if it had any in the first place, over the last couple of weeks with the CP rant, sorry, "interview" (again underlying agenda of criticism) and the appointment of current said person.
If you think stating facts, ie quoting the BBC website is "slagging off" then you should leave running so called "Trusts" to the grown ups.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 10:42:14 GMT
Rik, I'm not in the least interested in the individuals involved and , unlike some, I am not questioning their motives. But I am questioning their tactics because I am concerned about the Trust shunting itself up a cul de dac and seemingly having no idea how to reverse out of it. The Trust wants dialogue with the owner (we'll overlook demanding explanantions) , but organises meetings and publishes magazines that provide platforms to attack him. If you are serious about wanting a dialogue that's not the way to achieve it and the politics are naive beyond belief. As a matter of interest, does the Trust now accept that Katrien Meire is the person it should be seeking dialogue with? Or is the Trust still disrespectfully insisting she's just the monkey and you will only talk to the organ-grinder (and will travel to Belgium to do so, according to what the new Trust chair has told the BBC)? Threats get you no where as the "Trust" have already found out.
|
|
|
Post by overthetop on Mar 17, 2015 10:48:33 GMT
The appointment of officers on the Supporters' Trust board is the responsibility of the elected board. This is very usual for a member organisation, and our rules are in line with the Supporters' Direct model. They're also published on our website for everyone. So why haven't the Trust followed those rules. Quite clearly they haven't. For starters, where was the notification of the meeting?
|
|
|
Post by seriouslyred on Mar 17, 2015 10:50:19 GMT
Around a year ago I advised the Trust board that the only way to put some of these criticisms to bed is to have contested elections so that candidates can put their case and the winners have a mandate. If Royston and Henry Irving feel so strongly about Trust direction they should stand for election. Regarding that radio interview I have done some research and I'm not convinced that the Staprix network doesn't work. Liege sold €25m of players last summer plus loaned us another €4m and yet they finished the league part of their season in the top six after 30 games. STTV are on their way to promotion helped by goals from Parsysek. And our season is over in mid March. Mid table after transforming our squad including three first team regulars from Liege (Watt, Buyens and Bulot) and two more attacking players scouted by the network (Gudmundsson and Vetokele).
The owner has not explained what they are doing but these "thought leaders" who claim to support our club have gone out of their way to trash the approach.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 11:18:33 GMT
The appointment of officers on the Supporters' Trust board is the responsibility of the elected board. This is very usual for a member organisation, and our rules are in line with the Supporters' Direct model. They're also published on our website for everyone. So why haven't the Trust followed those rules. Quite clearly they haven't. For starters, where was the notification of the meeting? We have followed the rules. I think you're getting confused. This isn't a general meeting of members, it's a Board meeting. The Board determines which of the Board's members will be officers of the Trust, including the Chair. In case it's still not clear, the specific rule is rule 81: "The Society Board shall elect from among their own number a Chair, treasurer and such other Officers as they may from time to time decide in accordance with the Society’s Board Membership and Conduct Policy. These Officers shall have such duties and rights as may be bestowed on them by the Society Board or by statute and any officer appointed may be removed by the Society Board." That's exactly what we did when we received notice of Barnie's resignation. We elected Steve. Re SR's point above - absolutely we would encourage people to stand for election to the Trust board. The next AGM is in September so plenty of time to get things together. Nick in particular, as you're so outspoken why don't you stand and influence from within rather than stand on the sidelines griping. Why don't you prove it's not just the profile of infamy you seek and actually get involved, make a difference.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 11:35:28 GMT
Nice try @rikofold - you increasingly remind me of a duck on a pond. Calm and serene on top, but paddling desperately down below to stay afloat. 1. CAST or a senior thought leader of CAST put out at least one Tweet in the week of the public meeting, saying you had put on 200 members. 2. CAST had no strategy (also known as a 'big stick') for bringing an unpopular and dishonest ownership to the table at the height of their unpopularity - Peeters sacked, Luzon had no work permit, a 5-0 defeat at Watford etc). You manifestly botched it. The Owners had already told you to 'do one' - your Grand Plan? To ask them again...only more nicely 3. 2/3 weeks then drifted by. What happened? CAST elected members of their own families to imaginary positions, and the CAST Politburo all piled in on top of each other counting the lovely fivers, like a room full of Ethiopians haggling over a tin of baked beans. 4. The upshot of all this? Barney has retired to lick his wounds and spend more time perfecting his already excellent Bob Monkhouse impression. Katrien has just had Ben Hayes surgically removed from up her bum after a night at Bromley Addicks - but still won't talk to you. And your new Politburo reeks of such nepotism it puts the Brady Bunch to shame.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 12:06:43 GMT
Nick, an attack is not a replacement for reasoned debate. I guess the reality is that it's fine behind a keyboard, but the prospect of standing and making a difference would mean you actually have to deal with real people, and with just one persona to boot - no multiple accounts in real life mate. Takes the power away a little doesn't it, that's why you won't brave it.
Now why not offer some reasonable criticism, leave your internet personality behind and engage properly?
If that tweet exists, link to it. I've asked several times. Let's see who actually posted it, but certainly it didn't come from the Supporters' Trust itself. Anyway I can assure you without any doubt whatsoever that it is inaccurate. For the sake of transparency, last month's accounts show 92 people paying membership fees since the public meeting, of which many are renewals. It seems just 11 people joined (or renewed) at the meeting itself.
We also lost money on the meeting, but then we didn't arrange it for any other reason than we've consistently stated. I know it doesn't suit your rhetoric Nick - perhaps you'll now have to resort to addressing what people actually say, rather than creating your own arguments.
But I'm not going to do circular arguments any more Nick. It's boring and I have a life away from my keyboard. Our website will update the interested from time to time.
|
|
|
Post by overthetop on Mar 17, 2015 12:20:47 GMT
So why haven't the Trust followed those rules. Quite clearly they haven't. For starters, where was the notification of the meeting? We have followed the rules. I think you're getting confused. This isn't a general meeting of members, it's a Board meeting. The Board determines which of the Board's members will be officers of the Trust, including the Chair. In case it's still not clear, the specific rule is rule 81: "The Society Board shall elect from among their own number a Chair, treasurer and such other Officers as they may from time to time decide in accordance with the Society’s Board Membership and Conduct Policy. These Officers shall have such duties and rights as may be bestowed on them by the Society Board or by statute and any officer appointed may be removed by the Society Board." That's exactly what we did when we received notice of Barnie's resignation. We elected Steve. Re SR's point above - absolutely we would encourage people to stand for election to the Trust board. The next AGM is in September so plenty of time to get things together. Nick in particular, as you're so outspoken why don't you stand and influence from within rather than stand on the sidelines griping. Why don't you prove it's not just the profile of infamy you seek and actually get involved, make a difference. But new Board members have been voted in as a result of the Trust Board meeting. How does that work if they're not on the Board already? Or are they co-opted?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 12:31:14 GMT
and still the fundamental question of Steve doing the BBC interview is ignored !
Question , was Steve already on the board as your statement says "shall elect from among their own number a Chair, treasurer and such other Officers "
|
|
|
Post by squareball on Mar 17, 2015 12:34:48 GMT
We have followed the rules. I think you're getting confused. This isn't a general meeting of members, it's a Board meeting. The Board determines which of the Board's members will be officers of the Trust, including the Chair. In case it's still not clear, the specific rule is rule 81: "The Society Board shall elect from among their own number a Chair, treasurer and such other Officers as they may from time to time decide in accordance with the Society’s Board Membership and Conduct Policy. These Officers shall have such duties and rights as may be bestowed on them by the Society Board or by statute and any officer appointed may be removed by the Society Board." That's exactly what we did when we received notice of Barnie's resignation. We elected Steve. Re SR's point above - absolutely we would encourage people to stand for election to the Trust board. The next AGM is in September so plenty of time to get things together. Nick in particular, as you're so outspoken why don't you stand and influence from within rather than stand on the sidelines griping. Why don't you prove it's not just the profile of infamy you seek and actually get involved, make a difference. But new Board members have been voted in as a result of the Trust Board meeting. How does that work if they're not on the Board already? Or are they co-opted? I guess a board member proposes someone , its gets seconded and then someone is duly elected. Thats not an issue. It would appear however that the trust and the so called G21 have merged. I was totally against the "G21" but thought the trust had a less hardline approach and may even have been a help to supporters who want to engage with the club. It appears the club have seen through it . It would explain their unwillingness to speak with the trust.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 12:43:53 GMT
But new Board members have been voted in as a result of the Trust Board meeting. How does that work if they're not on the Board already? Or are they co-opted? I guess a board member proposes someone , its gets seconded and then someone is duly elected. Thats not an issue. It would appear however that the trust and the so called G21 have merged. I was totally against the "G21" but thought the trust had a less hardline approach and may even have been a help to supporters who want to engage with the club. It appears the club have seen through it . It would explain their unwillingness to speak with the trust. no SB, it clearly says "shall elect from among their own number a Chair, treasurer and such other Officers " that means they have to already be on the board , question is how do you get on the board, is there a voting process for this ? or maybe I've misunderstood the statement and meaning of "own number" ??
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Mar 17, 2015 13:05:50 GMT
Nick, an attack is not a replacement for reasoned debate. I guess the reality is that it's fine behind a keyboard, but the prospect of standing and making a difference would mean you actually have to deal with real people, and with just one persona to boot - no multiple accounts in real life mate. Takes the power away a little doesn't it, that's why you won't brave it. Now why not offer some reasonable criticism, leave your internet personality behind and engage properly? But I'm not going to do circular arguments any more Nick. It's boring and I have a life away from my keyboard. Our website will update the interested from time to time. Ouch! I wonder who'll answer that question, Royston or typical? Perhaps it will be both!! Three games a season? It's been 5 this and 4 away's so try again Royston! My attendance or lack of it clearly bothers you more than it does me.
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Mar 17, 2015 13:08:51 GMT
By the way, Steve Clarke and daughter are not the way forward. I could go to Liege tomorrow and knock on Roland's door and he'd sit down and talk football with me just like Katriene did. That would not happen with Steve Clarke I'm afraid, he's a beaten man already, running to the press to do an interview shows how naïve he is. He won't make a blind bit of difference to CAST.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 13:30:23 GMT
By the way, Steve Clarke and daughter are not the way forward. I could go to Liege tomorrow and knock on Roland's door and he'd sit down and talk football with me just like Katriene did. That would not happen with Steve Clarke I'm afraid, he's a beaten man already, running to the press to do an interview shows how naïve he is. He won't make a blind bit of difference to CAST. Do you genuinely believe that to be true?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 13:47:09 GMT
By the way, Steve Clarke and daughter are not the way forward. I could go to Liege tomorrow and knock on Roland's door and he'd sit down and talk football with me just like Katriene did. That would not happen with Steve Clarke I'm afraid, he's a beaten man already, running to the press to do an interview shows how naïve he is. He won't make a blind bit of difference to CAST.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 13:54:59 GMT
By the way, Steve Clarke and daughter are not the way forward. I could go to Liege tomorrow and knock on Roland's door and he'd sit down and talk football with me just like Katriene did. That would not happen with Steve Clarke I'm afraid, he's a beaten man already, running to the press to do an interview shows how naïve he is. He won't make a blind bit of difference to CAST. Do you genuinely believe that to be true? personally I think by the aggressive, disrespectful and dam right bloody rude way "dialogue" has supposedly been attempted from this side of the fence the door is half shut rather than open. With regards to making a difference , what difference are we alluding to, dialogue or criticism ? Its all got a bit Captain Mainwaring ! They dont like it up em you know ,,,,,,,,,,,
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 13:58:42 GMT
We have followed the rules. I think you're getting confused. This isn't a general meeting of members, it's a Board meeting. The Board determines which of the Board's members will be officers of the Trust, including the Chair. In case it's still not clear, the specific rule is rule 81: "The Society Board shall elect from among their own number a Chair, treasurer and such other Officers as they may from time to time decide in accordance with the Society’s Board Membership and Conduct Policy. These Officers shall have such duties and rights as may be bestowed on them by the Society Board or by statute and any officer appointed may be removed by the Society Board." That's exactly what we did when we received notice of Barnie's resignation. We elected Steve. Re SR's point above - absolutely we would encourage people to stand for election to the Trust board. The next AGM is in September so plenty of time to get things together. Nick in particular, as you're so outspoken why don't you stand and influence from within rather than stand on the sidelines griping. Why don't you prove it's not just the profile of infamy you seek and actually get involved, make a difference. But new Board members have been voted in as a result of the Trust Board meeting. How does that work if they're not on the Board already? Or are they co-opted? Again, it's all in the rules - I'd encourage you to read them as you appear to have an interest. In summary, board members can either be elected (at a general meeting) or co-opted, at the board's discretion. The latter is usually only used where the board has spaces and the workload (or skills mix) is such that it benefits the Trust to have them on board earlier than the next AGM. And trust me, it's a very time consuming role.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 14:00:07 GMT
and still the fundamental question of Steve doing the BBC interview is ignored ! Question , was Steve already on the board as your statement says "shall elect from among their own number a Chair, treasurer and such other Officers " With respect, the answer to that is obvious. Yes he was on the board. Not that it makes a lot of difference, but Alex joined the board a fair time before Steve did. She is an excellent addition too. EDIT - sorry, got my timings wrong. Steve was elected at the last AGM, Alex joined a little while afterwards.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 14:04:03 GMT
Serious question @rikofold - given the need for CAST to retain authority among its wider fan base, and also given his excellent insider contacts with the Belgian owners - did you consider asking Reams to take over as Chair of CAST?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 14:10:36 GMT
and still the fundamental question of Steve doing the BBC interview is ignored ! Question , was Steve already on the board as your statement says "shall elect from among their own number a Chair, treasurer and such other Officers " With respect, the answer to that is obvious. Yes he was on the board. Not that it makes a lot of difference, but Alex joined the board a fair time before Steve did. She is an excellent addition too. sorry Rik, I'm not aware of who was and wasn't on the board, So he, along with the other board members have been appointed by a democratic voting process of "Trust" members ? is that right, or do you juct get picked ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 14:14:58 GMT
Serious answer Royston - Reams isn't on the board of CAST so we couldn't ask him. Given that he's largely spoken against us, his wasn't the first name to spring to mind when we needed to co-opt someone. We asked people who had expressed an interest in contributing and who brought skills to the board we didn't have and needed. He is, like you, welcome to stand for election.
EDIT. Of course he'd need to be a member first.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 14:22:43 GMT
Do you genuinely believe that to be true? personally I think by the aggressive, disrespectful and dam right bloody rude way "dialogue" has supposedly been attempted from this side of the fence the door is half shut rather than open. With regards to making a difference , what difference are we alluding to, dialogue or criticism ? Its all got a bit Captain Mainwaring ! They dont like it up em you know ,,,,,,,,,,, I was referring to reams saying he would go to liege!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 14:32:20 GMT
Serious answer Royston - Reams isn't on the board of CAST so we couldn't ask him. Given that he's largely spoken against us, his wasn't the first name to spring to mind when we needed to co-opt someone. We asked people who had expressed an interest in contributing and who brought skills to the board we didn't have and needed. He is, like you, welcome to stand for election. @rikofold It seems like an obvious solution to CAST's *apparent* lack of influence that you quickly co-opt Reams onto your Management Council. After all, how many other mere Charlton fans got the "Campari promise" out of Katrien, that Reams managed to extract: "Paul, I will employ you at Charlton any time, any place, anywhere"
(Now, can you please let go of my waist and allow me to go for a piss....)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 14:35:10 GMT
With respect, the answer to that is obvious. Yes he was on the board. Not that it makes a lot of difference, but Alex joined the board a fair time before Steve did. She is an excellent addition too. sorry Rik, I'm not aware of who was and wasn't on the board, So he, along with the other board members have been appointed by a democratic voting process of "Trust" members ? is that right, or do you juct get picked ? Seriously, read the rules. Please. It's a lot less painful than me repeating myself. We are compliant with our rules, which follow the Supporters Direct model, if that simplifies it. Simply: - Board members are elected by the members of the Trust at its AGM.
- The board elects its officers from its own number, and must have a Chair, Secretary and Treasurer.
- Where necessary, the board can co-opt members to the board, subject to a minimum proportion of elected board members of 2:1.
It really isn't as difficult as you're making it. It is a democratic process, and one extremely common among member organisations. After the last AGM all of our board members were elected board members.Since then we have had need to co-opt board members, and have done. We have also lost our Chair, and as it's our responsibility to ensure our officer roles are filled we duly elected Steve to succeed Barnie. Thankfully Barnie gave us notice of his resignation, so we could do this early enough to ensure the role didn't go unfilled. EDIT: For the avoidance of doubt, Steve Clarke was elected to the board at the last AGM.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 14:37:40 GMT
Serious answer Royston - Reams isn't on the board of CAST so we couldn't ask him. Given that he's largely spoken against us, his wasn't the first name to spring to mind when we needed to co-opt someone. We asked people who had expressed an interest in contributing and who brought skills to the board we didn't have and needed. He is, like you, welcome to stand for election. @rikofold It seems like an obvious solution to CAST's *apparent* lack of influence that you quickly co-opt Reams onto your Management Council. After all, how many other mere Charlton fans got the "Campari promise" out of Katrien, that Reams managed to extract: "Paul, I will employ you at Charlton any time, any place, anywhere"
(Now, can you please let go of my waist and allow me to go for a piss....)Even if we wanted to we couldn't. Firstly he's not a member of the Supporters' Trust, which is a bit of a constraint. Secondly we are at our maximum number of co-opted board members. I respect that Reams met with KM. A bit more active that you're prepared to be away from your keyboard, one might observe.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 14:41:29 GMT
@rikofold It seems like an obvious solution to CAST's *apparent* lack of influence that you quickly co-opt Reams onto your Management Council. After all, how many other mere Charlton fans got the "Campari promise" out of Katrien, that Reams managed to extract: "Paul, I will employ you at Charlton any time, any place, anywhere"
(Now, can you please let go of my waist and allow me to go for a piss....)Even if we wanted to we couldn't. Firstly he's not a member of the Supporters' Trust, which is a bit of a constraint. Secondly we are at our maximum number of co-opted board members. I respect that Reams met with KM. A bit more active that you're prepared to be away from your keyboard, one might observe. Knowing Reams, he will be happy to join CAST if you pay his £5 membership fee for him
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Mar 17, 2015 18:45:06 GMT
I think that there is more chance of Royston standing for an erection than an election given that he is halfway there already!
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Mar 17, 2015 18:47:05 GMT
Even if we wanted to we couldn't. Firstly he's not a member of the Supporters' Trust, which is a bit of a constraint. Secondly we are at our maximum number of co-opted board members. I respect that Reams met with KM. A bit more active that you're prepared to be away from your keyboard, one might observe. Knowing Reams, he will be happy to join CAST if you pay his £5 membership fee for him Knowing Reams??? that's just it though isn't it Royston you don't know me and never will! Going back to what Rik said earlier about you only coming out to play on forums.......This kind of proves his point doesn't it?
|
|