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Season Ticket Holder
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Post by razil on Mar 23, 2015 17:38:13 GMT
Km obviously does care about attendances as she wouldnt have introduced reduced Season tickets teo years running
They also reversed the daft changes to universal kids tickets
Well done on both in my view, and both something I've advocated
KM also asked the Trust to help the club, so she clearly disagrees with some of the views on here
Where we differ is on the strategic conversation
However she immediately started talking strategy after the Trust acted
So a shame really that it happened the way it did really, i hope the new trust board can bridge that gap
On elections for the Trust it is something I have talked about on here and to Trust Board people when I was chair.
I think it would be great to expand the elections somehow to encourage a contest of some sort, and now I am standing back from it I may work on some ideas as to how that can be done, and will offer my views to them.
R
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 17:46:39 GMT
You know what Browntalk, I've spent a lot of time answering your questions today. I've already explained the voting process on this thread (p6) and elsewhere countless times, and it's all contained in our rules on the castrust.org website. It's dull enough for me to keep repeating myself, let alone everyone else on this site to read the same procedural stuff over and over again.
But let's be honest, I'm wasting my time aren't I? All you really want is to try to find that nugget that proves the Trust is just trying to cheat you all out of a fiver, even though we're a non-profit community based organisation set up for the benefit of, er, you. We will make mistakes, but you won't find what you're looking for in a set of rules that follow the Supporters Direct model and align with just about every other member-based organisation in the country.
I've said it before, but I'm just a boring old supporter who wants to do my best for my fellow supporters. I don't care for profile, it's hard enough to come on here consistently and get abused for quite what I'm not sure about. I spend enough time working on this stuff without trying to satisfy someone who won't be satisfied on a forum. (That goes for you too IA).
So I will leave you to go look for what I've already explained endless times and what's published on our website. Feel free to come back with any questions that really aren't answered there or that you don't understand, but stop being lazy and go read it. I've got family to go spend time with.
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Post by seriouslyred on Mar 23, 2015 17:49:59 GMT
Indeed, one of the achievements of calling the Woolwich meeting was that the club responded with a short notice VIP meeting to facilitate the release of some of the tactical and strategic direction.
I have maintained for a long time that if the comms were more fluent there would be less space for certain people to assume malice or incompetence when things are not going well.
The irony is that contributions from Trust board members have turned this into a 12 page thread running into late March. Not an ideal comms strategy when the the subject was both explicitly and implicitly critical of the Trust.
I've lost count of the number of times I've been told that it's not about the playing side and that other things matter. If the Trust asked ordinary fans their priorities they might find that the playing side is paramount.
All the rest is indeed noise!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 18:16:23 GMT
isnt this "just football" tho ? Its harder to get people back than it is for them to up sticks and leave, as in the Parky era, maybe hes to blame ? Yep, nail on the head. Which is exactly why you don't want to lose them in the first place. which Murray, as the figure head of the club has done, along with the help of his appointed staff !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 18:22:01 GMT
You know what Browntalk, I've spent a lot of time answering your questions today. I've already explained the voting process on this thread (p6) and elsewhere countless times, and it's all contained in our rules on the castrust.org website. It's dull enough for me to keep repeating myself, let alone everyone else on this site to read the same procedural stuff over and over again. But let's be honest, I'm wasting my time aren't I? All you really want is to try to find that nugget that proves the Trust is just trying to cheat you all out of a fiver, even though we're a non-profit community based organisation set up for the benefit of, er, you. We will make mistakes, but you won't find what you're looking for in a set of rules that follow the Supporters Direct model and align with just about every other member-based organisation in the country. I've said it before, but I'm just a boring old supporter who wants to do my best for my fellow supporters. I don't care for profile, it's hard enough to come on here consistently and get abused for quite what I'm not sure about. I spend enough time working on this stuff without trying to satisfy someone who won't be satisfied on a forum. (That goes for you too IA). So I will leave you to go look for what I've already explained endless times and what's published on our website. Feel free to come back with any questions that really aren't answered there or that you don't understand, but stop being lazy and go read it. I've got family to go spend time with. you never answer mine, - So , say tomorrow you get an invite to the club, what exactly will your 3 oh so important questions be, and, more importantly what advise would the "Trust" be giving the club. 1.I'll try again or is it too hard - what 3 questions have you got for the club if invited into the board room tomorrow, ? 2.are you going to do a U turn and talk to KM as a route into RD ? 3.what advise would the "Trust" be giving the club. 4.what qualifications do the "Trust" members have along the lines of running a football club ie , to be respected in advising the Club Board , business , sporting or otherwise. 5.what actual advise are you offering to the Club ? I assuming this is already in place and you are ready to hit the ground running All quite simple questions for a Trust that is prepared and representing PAID Trust members, lets be clear here NOT the 10 - 20 thousand other possible supporters. Thanks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 18:26:57 GMT
Km obviously does care about attendances as she wouldnt have introduced reduced Season tickets teo years running They also reversed the daft changes to universal kids tickets Well done on both in my view, and both something I've advocated KM also asked the Trust to help the club, so she clearly disagrees with some of the views on here Where we differ is on the strategic conversation However she immediately started talking strategy after the Trust acted So a shame really that it happened the way it did really, i hope the new trust board can bridge that gap On elections for the Trust it is something I have talked about on here and to Trust Board people when I was chair. I think it would be great to expand the elections somehow to encourage a contest of some sort, and now I am standing back from it I may work on some ideas as to how that can be done, and will offer my views to them. R Why do you persist in putting that ridiculous "R" at the bottom of your posts? We all know who you are. You have made more comebacks than a boomerang.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 18:29:31 GMT
You know what Browntalk, I've spent a lot of time answering your questions today. I've already explained the voting process on this thread (p6) and elsewhere countless times, and it's all contained in our rules on the castrust.org website. It's dull enough for me to keep repeating myself, let alone everyone else on this site to read the same procedural stuff over and over again. But let's be honest, I'm wasting my time aren't I? All you really want is to try to find that nugget that proves the Trust is just trying to cheat you all out of a fiver, even though we're a non-profit community based organisation set up for the benefit of, er, you. We will make mistakes, but you won't find what you're looking for in a set of rules that follow the Supporters Direct model and align with just about every other member-based organisation in the country. I've said it before, but I'm just a boring old supporter who wants to do my best for my fellow supporters. I don't care for profile, it's hard enough to come on here consistently and get abused for quite what I'm not sure about. I spend enough time working on this stuff without trying to satisfy someone who won't be satisfied on a forum. (That goes for you too IA). So I will leave you to go look for what I've already explained endless times and what's published on our website. Feel free to come back with any questions that really aren't answered there or that you don't understand, but stop being lazy and go read it. I've got family to go spend time with. you never answer mine, - what 3 questions have you got for the club if invited into the board room tomorrow, ? are you going to do a U turn and talk to KM as a route into RD ? 3 questions ? Allow me. 1. Will you agree to talk to any old fans outside the bogs, or is it just Reams? 2. Can I have first go at the buffet in the boardroom at half time? 3. Steve Waggott ended the free drinks for hangers on - will you guarantee of reinstate them?
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 23, 2015 18:39:04 GMT
Perhaps or perhaps responding to the constsnt dog doo peddalled by some who have an agenda of their own Its the usual ur elitist if you dont, protesting too much if you do And no kev despite ur repetition a supporters trust shd never be a bilnd cheerleader, thats callled a supporters club It shd be a principled org that is not afraid to represent fans interests And which part of the fans interests is represented by carrying an interview with an ex-manager which is clearly sympathetic to him and not the club. No hard questions, no thought about why Powell went. Luzon has been in charge five minutes and has won more games (seven) than Powell did in 30! "Oh but he has better players" so where did those players come from? People don't like change, I get that. But CAFC has been going through rapid change and Morrison and Wilson are the latest to feel that with their departures. You don't have to be a cheerleader or a "mindless optimist" to describe and appraise that change...and then explore what happens next. It's plain to see that Cafc is on a relentless course to sign million pound players in an attempt to push up the league and that this leaves the 2012-14 squad further and further behind. If the Trust were interested in finding out what fans think then great but I don't see it asking the right question and, as per the charicature, it is simply aligning itself with those who also live in the past. Well said that man
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 23, 2015 18:46:25 GMT
Rik you said the following:
What you fail to realise is none of that has nothing to do with the TRUST, when will the penny drop? They do not have to explain their actions to anybody, what part of that don't the TRUST understand?
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 23, 2015 18:51:03 GMT
you never answer mine, - what 3 questions have you got for the club if invited into the board room tomorrow, ? are you going to do a U turn and talk to KM as a route into RD ? 3 questions ? Allow me. 1. Will you agree to talk to any old fans outside the bogs, or is it just Reams? 2. Can I have first go at the buffet in the boardroom at half time? 3. Steve Waggott ended the free drinks for hangers on - will you guarantee of reinstate them? Royston stop acting like a child spouting out bullshit about meetings outside bogs - How old are you? It was in the Directors lounge actually, somewhere that you'll never see no matter what the venue is. Do you have kids by any chance? If so I hope they don't read your comments on forums because you embarrass yourself and you embarrass them.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 23, 2015 18:59:10 GMT
Serious question IA - do you expect the majority of those who hold tickets but aren't coming to games to renew? So they won't renew so what? Fans not supporting a winning side on the pitch are not fans in the first place, the anoraks who won't or don't renew are a bunch of wankers who can fuck off somewhere else on a Saturday afternoon for all we care. The club will be around for far longer than the TRUST will and have more people behind them than the TRUST ever will either. Fact is Rik you have 1,5000 members who have paid a fiver so you have to be seen as representing them but there is absolutely nothing there to represent them on so you are creating problems just to try and maintain your existence. If the TRUST was free to join you would be no more than smoking ash by now in it's dying embers. The only thing the TRUST should worry about is that there is no place for them at or within Charlton Athletic Football Club. Personally I would give out 1,500 refunds put it down to experience and take up another hobby. Back to the S/T's it sounds to me like the TRUST are relying on poor sales in the summer in the hope of bringing RD and KM to the table - Are you really that naive? What ever the losses are and I really do think you are over estimating that there will be, RD will claw that back with his eyes closed because he'll fill the ground with ticket offers on a regular basis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 19:16:16 GMT
3 questions ? Allow me. 1. Will you agree to talk to any old fans outside the bogs, or is it just Reams? 2. Can I have first go at the buffet in the boardroom at half time? 3. Steve Waggott ended the free drinks for hangers on - will you guarantee of reinstate them? Royston stop acting like a child spouting out bullshit about meetings outside bogs - How old are you? It was in the Directors lounge actually, somewhere that you'll never see no matter what the venue is. Do you have kids by any chance? If so I hope they don't read your comments on forums because you embarrass yourself and you embarrass them. Bugger off Reams. You are a total buffoon.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 23, 2015 19:24:27 GMT
how much is actually taken via season tickets ? would this really worry RD, after all , he has an estimated 500 million euro fortune, surly that generates far far more in interest than season ticket revenue will ever raise at the "RD" Valley ? Yes, he does worry about it. And as all his investment is in the form of debt laden on Baton then the club can't really risk losing a tranch of its paying support. Isn't this obvious, seriously? So as far as TRUST are concerned it all hinges on S/T sales for them? Rik so as far as TRUST are concerned it all hinges on a large reduction in S/T sales for them? Do you really believe that this is going to happen? Id RD said to the TRUST you have free use of the Valley for you and your 1500 members to have a meeting how many do you think would turn up? The fans who don't buy a season ticket will buy on a game to game basis anyway so does it really matter what the final ST total is? Fans will watch a winning side whether they have a ST or not and if the TRUST can't see that they are heading for a major car crash.. You think that retaining Bulot and Buyens full time and spending £5-£6m over summer will keep people away do you?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 19:25:49 GMT
Are the Trust really that naive,you ask, reams? Yep, they sure are. With knobs on. Their political naivete over the Woolwich meeting was staggering
Whoever said they're Charlton's answer to the Jehovah's Witnesses got it spot on. Arrogantly telling KM they they're here to 'help' her ; perhaps they can save her soul while they're at it? Get real , guys. She doesn't need your help or your salvation. She's seen right through you and has noticed that you are hollow. The club has a plan; it's a good one and it's working - and it doesn't involve the Trust.
And whoever it was said rikofold doesn't answer questions but just spouts platitudes - he's been doing that all season. He didn't get where he is today by answering questions!
As for Royston, not so much Jehovah's Witness as flat-earther. Totally stark raving care-in-the-community bonkers. You can't help feeling that he and the Trust rather deserve each other, locked in a meaningless argument about how flat the world is for ever. And ever. Amen.
You'd never guess that we're actually having a decent season. Sometimes these people seem even to forget that we're a football club!
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 23, 2015 19:30:21 GMT
How about I send you to room 101 Royston with the rest of the insignificants?
Tell me are you as bitter and twisted in real life as you are on here or just very thick?
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 23, 2015 19:42:57 GMT
It doesn't matter whether Rick Everitt is "bitter" or not. The fact is that he did more on his own to save Charlton in the 80s than 500 prating nellies like @incorruptibleaddick. Rick has consistently said that our real gates this season - that is turnstile headcount - are 10,000-11,000. If the football is so great, and the manager and owner so orgasmically wonderful, why are our home attendances so fucking bad this season? But Rick would say that wouldn't he because the club sacked him and he thought that when RD came him he may get his job back but sadly not. As for our Attendances, 11,000 so what, more fool the stay away's, we're playing the best football for years but they choose to stay away who cares, it's their loss. There are 6 former Premier League clubs below us in the attendance table, one of those actually won it a few years ago too! uk.soccerway.com/national/england/championship/20142015/regular-season/r25197/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 19:50:03 GMT
How about I send you to room 101 Royston with the rest of the insignificants? Tell me are you as bitter and twisted in real life as you are on here or just very thick? The two are not mutually exclusive, so possibly both?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 20:07:53 GMT
As long as the Supporters Trust Watch Tower Tract Society are more interested in issues of nationality and "autonomy" (a word I saw used quite bizarrely by rikofold in another thread) and care more about the hated network that Buyens, Bulot, Ben Haim, Watt and Luzon came from rather than the excellent job they're doing at CAFC, then the club will quite correclty have nothing to do with them.
Why do these people never actually discuss football , only their warped perception of what they think is going on in the board room?
I'd urge every true Charlton supporter to e-mail KM and make it clear that the Trust do not speak for the majority of supporters. Even though she already knows that, it cannot do any harm to drive the point home...
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Post by seriouslyred on Mar 23, 2015 20:45:49 GMT
An excellent interview by Heather..........perfect for VOTV. About the last article I expect to see from my Trust who are desperately trying to build bridges and have a constructive dialogue with the owner and CEO. The fact that the trust board cannot see the damage this may do to them is incredible. But then with the new Trust Chair being one of the chief protagonists of the G21 group, it will not surprise in which direction the Trust is going to head. At the moment, I hope they continue to be ignored, because the agenda cannot be driven by those who believe they know better. Leave it to the man who has invested vast sums in the Club with a vision, a plan he is quite prepared to spend his money on. i'm happy to give him some time in achieving his aims. the "article" is a massive own goal for an organisation that wants dialogue with the very person the "article" is attempting, for want of a phrase, "dog shit" upon. You don't openly criticize a company / person and then ask for a chin wag about how YOU should have input into running THEIR business, it really is absolutely laughable. Has anyone got any idea of how negotiations are carried out, do any of you actually work in the "field" of business ? Project / Program Managers ? Honestly you guys really need to wake up and smell the coffee. Members numbers don't even make a dent, if, and its a big if, the grand plan comes through, then the stands will be full once again of the "plastics" that don't give a shit about who owns the club, as long as they have their pint, pie and a bovril they will be happy. Do you think this went on at Chelsea and Man City ? A bunch of old cry baby stuck in the past supporters bleating on about "their" clubs ? Christ, Chelsea would still have the bleeding dog track if that were the case ! There's a saying "change is bad" , so what do you do , go with the change and enjoy the ride or get off the bus and be left behind ? Negative criticizing is not constructive during change, it hinders the process, people become disengaged and turn bitter, wanting things done "their way" , "whats wrong with the way we do it" ? I pose a question re change, do you still drive the car you had in 1980, do you still have the same washing machine from 1980, do you still have the same TV the same computer the same kettle the same HIFI,,, they worked,,,so why change them ? Just skimmed through the thread and this sums it up for me. "We want to help you Katrien but just let us finish criticising the first major decision you and the owner made... And then have a pop at how you appointed Luzon and can't recruit players etc." They wouldn't be my first choice of business partner either!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 20:51:11 GMT
"...do you still drive the car you had in 1980, do you still have the same washing machine from 1980, do you still have the same TV the same computer the same kettle the same HIFI..."
In Royston's case, I'm guessing the answer is probably 'yes'!!!
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 23, 2015 21:01:25 GMT
As long as the Supporters Trust Watch Tower Tract Society are more interested in issues of nationality and "autonomy" (a word I saw used quite bizarrely by rikofold in another thread) and care more about the hated network that Buyens, Bulot, Ben Haim, Watt and Luzon came from rather than the excellent job they're doing at CAFC, then the club will quite correclty have nothing to do with them. Why do these people never actually discuss football , only their warped perception of what they think is going on in the board room? I'd urge every true Charlton supporter to e-mail KM and make it clear that the Trust do not speak for the majority of supporters. Even though she already knows that, it cannot do any harm to drive the point home... At Cardiff I apologised to her on behalf of the real fans who do not condone fan behaviour towards her on trains and made it totally clear that fan groups like the TRUST and others represent a very small percentage of Charlton fans. She said to me that nobody saw the worst of the Watford train incident because that was a Euston and off camera and what they are doing at the club is for the fans who are behind them, she looked and sounded totally nonplussed at those who are not.
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 23, 2015 22:21:49 GMT
As another TRUST thread has started I think it's a good time to close this one now before they start to conflict.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 22:54:17 GMT
As another TRUST thread has started I think it's a good time to close this one now before they start to conflict. And that would result in an inconsistent casual loop (Paradox) leading to Royston finally disappearing up his own arse!
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Post by squareball on Mar 23, 2015 23:16:16 GMT
On attendances going down I remember the club making some really tempting offers like a free season ticket the following season if we got promotion. It didn't happen but most fans renewed and attendances remained high. We also got other offers including a couple of free vouchers for games in the back of the book, reduced or frozen prices. Over the years the offers were tempting enough to keep most fans on board but the offers aren't too great now unless you have the cheap seats. Plus austerity measures have taken a lot of fans out of the game. I guess some fans preferred to pay their bills and keep their homes ticking over rather than buy an ST. They will come back when finances get better. As it happens the 150 pound tickets gave that option to a lot of fans. A good gesture from the club in hard times.
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