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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:04:25 GMT
As SR says, there's a plan, we're on target and the rest is noise. Empty vessels not only make most noise but they never know when to shut up. The Trust has lost all credibility and its quarrelsome mouthpieces don't seem to understand that a period of silence rather then keeping up a constant, carping running commentary of vexatious whingeing and moaning is required before they can even try to rehabilitate themselves in the eyes of loyal supporters. No explanation or apparently even a thought-process from numpties like you on why we are now getting 11,000 gates. Presumably the new missing 2,000 ST holders don't share your wringing (literally) endorsement of the Network tat.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:05:16 GMT
And yet, IA, if I stay silent you tell me I'm not accountable, not prepared to answer questions, elitist. We get it, you don't like the Trust - so why not try engaging in debate rather than your constant whinging?
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Post by seriouslyred on Mar 23, 2015 14:06:12 GMT
Serious question IA - do you expect the majority of those who hold tickets but aren't coming to games to renew? Yes. There have always been plenty of people who purchase season tkts but can't use them every week. In the past when I was doing a lot of overseas travelling there have been seasons when I was only able to use half the tkts in the book. I know it suits you and Royston to claim that there is some kind of mass boycott going on in protest as the way Luzon was appointed or because you don't like the network players or whatever the current whinge of the week is; but there is actually no evidence that the level of s/t absenteeism is particularly higher than usual or any reasearch as to where the holders of empty seats actually were last Sat afternoon and what kept them away. There are many reasons why fans don't attend after buying an ST and why they eventually don't renew. Eight season of poor football with the occasional highlight has to be the biggest. Price is no longer a legitimate excuse due to the introduction of £175 tickets. Some proper research of 1,000+ fans might be more informative than wild statements on a message board. Bottom line is a return to the FAPL solves the issue. In the meantime the club might address the marketing 6Ps (and they have already addressed price and product) but this will yield a few hundred thousand compared to sorting the squad and getting promoted. It may have escaped the attention of some club critics but the club is addressing the seven figure questions like the squad, catering, sponsorship, debt, VIP and the academy first. Yep, bigger picture and income is increasing with better performances for the same losses. But don't let that stop a "critical friend" tell the club how they are getting it all wrong!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:07:15 GMT
And yet, IA, if I stay silent you tell me I'm not accountable, not prepared to answer questions, elitist. We get it, you don't like the Trust - so why not try engaging in debate rather than your constant whinging? @rikofold Debating with the likes of old Grayson Perry/IA is a bit like trying to eat custard with a fork. Annoying and ultimately messy. He just comes on here to take contrary positions when he gets stuck on his Guardian crossword.
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Post by browntalk on Mar 23, 2015 14:08:45 GMT
So you say its pretty obvious? So why do the trust expect A non paying, non elected trust member to sit with the real board of directors? And you tight wads won't drop a fiver to let a non paying, non trust member sit on your board? arrogant and very hypocritical! So You have no accountability to cafc fans just trust fans? So how does that sit alongside the trust mandate 'to preserve cafc for future generations of cafc fans' particularly as you cannot even tell me how your voting process works? I think you're tying yourself in knots trying to be clever. - When did the Supporters' Trust ask for a seat on the club board?
- When did the football club become a members' society?
- Why is asking for a conversation a problem for anyone?
- Board members of societies such as the Supporters' Trust are formally Directors accountable to the FCA. We are not permitted to allow non-members to stand for the board.
- We make so much of what we do public because we see an accountability to all fans. However, as they pay for their membership of course members have a priority status in the organisation.
I'd suggest doing a little more reading and understanding before trying again. [b So your not interested in cafc fans is that all I get out of this? Your so up your arse about trust rules that you've forgotten what you actually stand for? I'm not bothered about what this FCA rule says I am interested in Cafc flourishing. Surely, you won't follow FCA rules to the detriment of cafc? You've been banging on for months about meeting Katrien and having 'meetings' and saying you have excellent trust members that could help cafc - then what are you after? It implies to me more than a free digestive? I am sure I read somewhere your ambitions to advise the board??!!! I think the trust are in desperate need of a realism and PR adviser. And the way you correspond makes you look something of a pretentious dick.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:12:46 GMT
He may or may not have taken on the debt, which increased by £13.1m on last year's accounts. That will depend on his attitude to it when he eventually sells up. As it stands, it is a debt on the football club to Staprix. What risk is RD himself actually taking on here exactly? IA and Spottydog, the point about Murray is a simple one: it is important that we don't just ignore how the club is being run. And in fact you're not ignoring it yourself if you're forming an opinion that everything in the garden is rosy. I agree, right now things look fairly good - but they did for the first half of Murray's reign as well didn't they? We are certainly financially stable from a cash perspective, but there is a question mark over the level of debt being taken on by the club and how that is disposed of down the line. debt, Baton owns club, Stapix own Baton , RD's owns it all , and you question his risk ? Murray - Well it certainly seems you were ignoring back then ? or is that your point , fans should have been more on the ball and seen throught the financial bull shit being aired around the club ? Why were the same questions not asked of Murray when Baton was being set up ? Tricky sprung that one on you ! Also, when Tricky handed over the club to,, was it "trusted hands" ? The very same hands that set up the off shoring of the clubs finances, that didn't seem to bother anyone ! As for "rosy" , not quite my friend , I will question and criticize BUT the main difference I have with the "Trust" is that I will not demand or chastise to try and get my own way. So , say tomorrow you get an invite to the club, what exactly will your 3 oh so important questions be, and, more importantly what advise would the "Trust" be giving the club.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:19:42 GMT
@incorruptibleaddick One of your many bad habits, along with rank dishonesty and political correctness, is misrepresenting people who disagree with you. Before 6 wins in 8 games leads you to burst open your flies in celebration, have a read at this new comment from Rick Everitt, which makes rather sobering reading even for a Duchalista Ra- Ra Boy like your good self. Sums paid to third parties to acquire a business are not investment in the business, in my view. Regardless of the merits and of his motives, RD is loading the club and its parent company with debt - some £28.5m was due to Staprix last June, and it will be a great deal more by this June (a big chunk is the debt incurred under Slater/Jimenez or bank loans being paid down). Unlike the previous ownership he is charging interest on that money, albeit some of it is not on the football club books but only appears in the parent company's (Baton 2010 Ltd) and that it is only at 3 per cent.
Now, whatever you think of Rick, and personally, despite his faults, I think rather more of him than I do of you, he does know what he is talking about where the old CAFC finances are concerned. He put his medals on the table in 1985 so to speak. He doesn't concoct tales about meetings outside the karzis, or feign jubilation when a team full of overseas tat we don't even own wins a couple of games. And the picture he paints is rather less than the Garden of Eden that deluded wallies like you are gushing over. P.S @incorruptibleaddick I found a lovely picture of you..... re Baton - facts and figures companycheck.co.uk/company/07326155/BATON-2010-LIMITED/financial-accountswww.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/baton-2010Charges / mortgages against this Company DEREK CHAPPELLDEBENTURE - OUTSTANDING on 7 Sep 2010 DAVID WHITEDEBENTURE - OUTSTANDING on 7 Sep 2010 DAVID HUGHESDEBENTURE - OUTSTANDING on 7 Sep 2010 SIR MAURICE HATTERDEBENTURE - OUTSTANDING on 7 Sep 2010 RICHARD ALAN MURRAYDEBENTURE - OUTSTANDING on 7 Sep 2010 56 DEVELOPMENTS LLPDEBENTURE - OUTSTANDING on 7 Sep 2010 DAVID SUMNERSDEBENTURE - OUTSTANDING on 7 Sep 2010 LOMBARD NORTH CENTRAL PLCDEBENTURE - OUTSTANDING on 4 Sep 2010 HSBC BANK PLCDEBENTURE - OUTSTANDING on 25 Aug 2010 Directors and Secretaries Roland Duchtelet 3 Jan 2014 ⇒ Present ( 1 Year ) Director Katrien Meire 3 Jan 2014 ⇒ Present ( 1 Year ) Director Richard Murray Obodynski 26 Jul 2010 ⇒ Present ( 4 Years )
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:20:57 GMT
It doesn't matter whether Rick Everitt is "bitter" or not. The fact is that he did more on his own to save Charlton in the 80s than 500 prating nellies like @incorruptibleaddick. Rick has consistently said that our real gates this season - that is turnstile headcount - are 10,000-11,000.
If the football is so great, and the manager and owner so orgasmically wonderful, why are our home attendances so fucking bad this season?
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Post by seriouslyred on Mar 23, 2015 14:30:52 GMT
Rikofold - sure player recruitment is really shite! It's so bad that we are currently watching the best front six at CAFC since we dropped out of the FAPL. And just one of them, Cousins came with the club which M.Duchatelet acquired 15 months ago. So we've acquired Bulot, Buyens, Gudmundsson, Watt and Vetokele in the last nine months and are scoring three goals virtually every game - now I see the problem! I keep writing it and you keep dismissing it as unimportant but the players, performances and results are streets ahead of last season. We are on course for a play-off challenge next season and our eventual success is dependant upon: 1) player retention 2) player and squad development 3) new talent acquisition 4) luck! Although I've not seen any games this season decided on luck All the rest is noise! And campaigning for fan involvement based on a critique of some fairly precise decision making isn't going to get you anywhere. Coming on here stating that the football isn't important is you having a laugh, isn't it?! Your issue is that you want to back losing coaches and think M.Duchatelet should do the same and throw money at them. Fortunately for him and our club, he prefers to sack the coach concerned and back the replacement. He's one step ahead and that augurs well for next season. Oh Kevin, come on. You can do better than that - I'm not saying the football or results aren't important, I'm saying they are not the only reason people support Charlton. If you think anything other than results is noise, then aren't you as plastic as all the glory boys supporting prem clubs? In terms of recruitment, KM herself said she had to persuade RD to bring in Eagles, Johnson and Diarra - all of whom started on Saturday - and she herself has stated the club has made mistakes. Peeters complained that until then his and Chapple's pleas to get Championship experienced players into the squad fell on deaf ears. Maybe they've learned the lessons, but it's only a few weeks back that we were a couple of places above the relegation zone. You can shout how you know what I want all you like, it doesn't make it so. You claim to know exactly what RD wants - well you're one step ahead of KM if that's the case, as she told Bromley Addicks. If he's really one step ahead, explain Peeters. You told us he was a strategic appointment - which looks a bit of a silly claim now, doesn't it? Any head coach appointment is strategic and I am not clear why we were given Peeters and not Riga. If you are going to dig up something I might have posted six months back then at least give me the quote! Resorting to calling me a plastic really doesn't do you any favours. Given my unwavering support since 1974 it makes me wonder just what the Trust stands for? No, my desire for promotion and success is based on my analysis that the club has no future in the bottom half of the Championship. Only promotion to the FAPL will stabilise the finances and get us back to full houses. All the rest is noise! If you don't believe me then look at clubs like Wigan and Millwall losing £10m a year and heading for league 1. Like it or not clubs will go to the wall on those budgets. If Charlton don't invest in the squad and performance then gates will drop and top players will be sold to pay the bills. Peeters was a mistake - I hear someone said he was the third best coach in our history. He was the third best coach in 2014! As I posted above M.Duchatelet doesn't invest in players to save the careers of losing coaches. He is setting up a trajectory where the next move is likely to be up. I suggest the Trust focussed on the gap between us and a top eight club rather than arguing with fellow fans or condemning the riches on offer in the FAPL... But that's another discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:31:13 GMT
Yes. There have always been plenty of people who purchase season tkts but can't use them every week. In the past when I was doing a lot of overseas travelling there have been seasons when I was only able to use half the tkts in the book. I know it suits you and Royston to claim that there is some kind of mass boycott going on in protest as the way Luzon was appointed or because you don't like the network players or whatever the current whinge of the week is; but there is actually no evidence that the level of s/t absenteeism is particularly higher than usual or any reasearch as to where the holders of empty seats actually were last Sat afternoon and what kept them away. There are many reasons why fans don't attend after buying an ST and why they eventually don't renew. Eight season of poor football with the occasional highlight has to be the biggest. Price is no longer a legitimate excuse due to the introduction of £175 tickets. Some proper research of 1,000+ fans might be more informative than wild statements on a message board. Bottom line is a return to the FAPL solves the issue. In the meantime the club might address the marketing 6Ps (and they have already addressed price and product) but this will yield a few hundred thousand compared to sorting the squad and getting promoted. It may have escaped the attention of some club critics but the club is addressing the seven figure questions like the squad, catering, sponsorship, debt, VIP and the academy first. Yep, bigger picture and income is increasing with better performances for the same losses. But don't let that stop a "critical friend" tell the club how they are getting it all wrong! SR, to be honest I'm really surprised at what you've written here and it makes me wonder why you were ever involved with the Supporters' Trust in the first place. If you really believe that most supporters follow Charlton simply because they hope one day they'll be following a Premier League club, well I think you're saying more about yourself than the rest of us fella. The FAPL may 'solve the issue' from a numbers perspective - although I would say that relegation after several years there was the main reason we ended up in the financial mire - but in the 40 years I've been supporting Charlton we've spent, what, 10 seasons in the top flight? The second tier is the most competitive it has ever been. I'm beginning to understand why people think the Trust you helped shape has carried a sense of entitlement. Anyway, I doubt many people would have agreed that performances have been better across the season. The football was dire under Peeters and the results little better. Have you forgotten we were just a couple of places out of the relegation zone when your 'strategic appointment' got the boot? You're basing your entire argument on a good run of form, just as IA did with Peeters and slammed me as 'talking down the club' when I pointed out it was too early to judge. I'm not sure how a critical friend tells anyone how they're getting it all wrong, unless they are of course. There is lots good about the current regime, but there are lots of things that can be improved and/or might have been handled differently if they'd sought to understand how it was likely to be received. Or do you think that there's no room for improvement?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:36:36 GMT
It doesn't matter whether Rick Everitt is "bitter" or not. The fact is that he did more on his own to save Charlton in the 80s than 500 prating nellies like @incorruptibleaddick. Rick has consistently said that our real gates this season - that is turnstile headcount - are 10,000-11,000. If the football is so great, and the manager and owner so orgasmically wonderful, why are our home attendances so fucking bad this season? well our track record for the last 3 years hasn't been exactly wonderful, manager / owner merry go round , crap football served up by you know who, talk of ground being sold and of course there is the Prem. I'm certain that if we ever did get back in the Prem then the ground would be sold out, you and I both know this is a massive footballing carrot being dangled before all Championship sides. We both know full well that the "plastics" would be besides themselves when Spurs, Arsenal, Man City etc etc pay a visit to the Valley, we have to face facts, the general floating football supporter does not find M'boro / Brentford / Watford V's Charlton very appetizing, no matter how many we win or lose by figures - Charlton v Reading 15,007 W'ford v Ipswich 19.038 top of the league 4000 more than us B'mouth v Boro - 10,998 B'ford v Millwall 10,179 B'burn v Brighton 13.605 Wolves v Derby 27.480 Cardiff v B'ham 20.602 We are mid table, its as simple as that www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-championship-2014-2015/1/
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:43:21 GMT
@spottydog
But our attendances in League One were 5,000 higher when we were playing Rochdale and Dagenham and Redbridge etc. The fact is that Charlton fans are turned off by this owner, and his model of football. Because despite the occasional flurry of good performances, the fundamentals behind the scenes are all wrong. Wrong owner. Wrong CEO. Wrong Head Coach. Wrong business model for an English working man's Club.
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Post by ralphmilnesgut on Mar 23, 2015 14:44:51 GMT
It doesn't matter whether Rick Everitt is "bitter" or not. The fact is that he did more on his own to save Charlton in the 80s than 500 prating nellies like @incorruptibleaddick. Rick has consistently said that our real gates this season - that is turnstile headcount - are 10,000-11,000. If the football is so great, and the manager and owner so orgasmically wonderful, why are our home attendances so fucking bad this season? Blimey, I actually agree with Royston. Off to increase my medication...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 14:54:11 GMT
I think you're tying yourself in knots trying to be clever. - When did the Supporters' Trust ask for a seat on the club board?
- When did the football club become a members' society?
- Why is asking for a conversation a problem for anyone?
- Board members of societies such as the Supporters' Trust are formally Directors accountable to the FCA. We are not permitted to allow non-members to stand for the board.
- We make so much of what we do public because we see an accountability to all fans. However, as they pay for their membership of course members have a priority status in the organisation.
I'd suggest doing a little more reading and understanding before trying again. [b So your not interested in cafc fans is that all I get out of this? Your so up your arse about trust rules that you've forgotten what you actually stand for? I'm not bothered about what this FCA rule says I am interested in Cafc flourishing. Surely, you won't follow FCA rules to the detriment of cafc? You've been banging on for months about meeting Katrien and having 'meetings' and saying you have excellent trust members that could help cafc - then what are you after? It implies to me more than a free digestive? I am sure I read somewhere your ambitions to advise the board??!!! I think the trust are in desperate need of a realism and PR adviser. And the way you correspond makes you look something of a pretentious dick. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm answering the questions you ask me. I can't help that you don't like the answers. Seriously, some of this is just common sense and/or reading to understand why things are the way they are. I'm trying to explain, but it feels a bit like trying to teach a dog maths at the moment. I'll give it one last go. - The Financial Conduct Authority is an industry regulator and we are accountable to them. It's the law. So yes, we will follow their rules or we'll end up in prison.
- We are a bunch of volunteers trying to make things better for Charlton supporters. Of course we're interested in CAFC fans - that's the reason we're giving up our spare time to do this - and a lot of time. Frankly it's a thankless task - SR will confirm - not least because people who have never met us think they know us and our ambitions intimately, and think it's ok to throw personal insults at us to boot.
- It's ok to debate us, I'm more than open to be persuaded through good argument, and I'm happy to agree to differ with people who are genuinely trying to see both sides. Sometimes on here it's about 10 on 1 though with little substance to conversation, which doesn't make it easy.
- We have offered KM our help. To date she has declined to take us up on this offer, but we still try because we believe Charlton supporters can make a big difference to the club.
- To my knowledge we've not contacted RD directly, but actually that was what we were asked to do by the Public Meeting; I think the consensus of that has offered some confusion.
- We continue to work with members of her team on various projects, but we're somewhat constrained by decisions taken above.
- The most I've personally ever had from the club in terms of hospitality was coffee and a cheap pen given to me at a Valley Gold committee meeting when mine ran out. Actually though I would see it as a good sign if any supporters' group was offered hospitality by the club, because it would reflect a positive attitude to the relationship.
I make no apology for believing that the club is better with the supporters' voice being heard on the board. The Supporters' Trust is the largest organised Charlton supporters' group, and has over 1200 full members. It is well placed, in my view, to offer something of benefit to the club.
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Post by overthetop on Mar 23, 2015 15:00:10 GMT
It doesn't matter whether Rick Everitt is "bitter" or not. The fact is that he did more on his own to save Charlton in the 80s than 500 prating nellies like @incorruptibleaddick. Rick has consistently said that our real gates this season - that is turnstile headcount - are 10,000-11,000. If the football is so great, and the manager and owner so orgasmically wonderful, why are our home attendances so fucking bad this season? 10,000 ST holders pay £200 for their ST, Club earns £2m None of them turn up. Guess what? The Club still earns £2m. Next season only 8,000 renew, but now at the cost of £225. Club earns £1.8m. Not sure if the owner gives two shits about the odd £200k. He's saved that by just off loading Morrison.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:01:06 GMT
"We have offered KM our help."
FFS...hubris or what?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:02:47 GMT
"We have offered KM our help." FFS...hubris or what? You think hubris is something to dip your pitta bread in.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:04:00 GMT
Oh Kevin, come on. You can do better than that - I'm not saying the football or results aren't important, I'm saying they are not the only reason people support Charlton. If you think anything other than results is noise, then aren't you as plastic as all the glory boys supporting prem clubs? In terms of recruitment, KM herself said she had to persuade RD to bring in Eagles, Johnson and Diarra - all of whom started on Saturday - and she herself has stated the club has made mistakes. Peeters complained that until then his and Chapple's pleas to get Championship experienced players into the squad fell on deaf ears. Maybe they've learned the lessons, but it's only a few weeks back that we were a couple of places above the relegation zone. You can shout how you know what I want all you like, it doesn't make it so. You claim to know exactly what RD wants - well you're one step ahead of KM if that's the case, as she told Bromley Addicks. If he's really one step ahead, explain Peeters. You told us he was a strategic appointment - which looks a bit of a silly claim now, doesn't it? Any head coach appointment is strategic and I am not clear why we were given Peeters and not Riga. If you are going to dig up something I might have posted six months back then at least give me the quote! Resorting to calling me a plastic really doesn't do you any favours. Given my unwavering support since 1974 it makes me wonder just what the Trust stands for? No, my desire for promotion and success is based on my analysis that the club has no future in the bottom half of the Championship. Only promotion to the FAPL will stabilise the finances and get us back to full houses. All the rest is noise! If you don't believe me then look at clubs like Wigan and Millwall losing £10m a year and heading for league 1. Like it or not clubs will go to the wall on those budgets. If Charlton don't invest in the squad and performance then gates will drop and top players will be sold to pay the bills. Peeters was a mistake - I hear someone said he was the third best coach in our history. He was the third best coach in 2014! As I posted above M.Duchatelet doesn't invest in players to save the careers of losing coaches. He is setting up a trajectory where the next move is likely to be up. I suggest the Trust focussed on the gap between us and a top eight club rather than arguing with fellow fans or condemning the riches on offer in the FAPL... But that's another discussion. Point of order - I didn't call you that, it was a conditional statement. But if the cap fits, I guess. We don't need to look at clubs like Wigan. We are the perfect example of the evils of the Premier League. It's why I'm hesitant to view it as our saviour. I'd rather M. Duchatelet pursued his break even dream to be honest than do that. It's not, for the avoidance of doubt, that I wouldn't want to see us competing in the Premier League, but I'd like to think that if we did ascend to its heights we'd once again be arguing from within for a fairer distribution of its wealth to the rest of the 92. No, I don't accept that all head coach appointments are strategic. Riga certainly wasn't - it was a tactical decision. Maybe Peeters was, but it was poorly researched if so. Luzon is an expedient choice but may well turn out to be RD's most successful appointment. Not because of strategy, but because he may well have fallen on the right coach at the right time. No shame in good fortune, incidentally. Robson's 1990 World Cup team was largely one fallen into. Rather a lucky manager than a good manager, perhaps. But actually I think Luzon has a lot about him - hopefully not just the motivator, but signs are that he's got a good idea of what's necessary in the English game. Personally I have no issue leaving the football decisions to the club, albeit I think an understanding of the culture of the club helps even with that. Actually, I don't think the supporters should be running the club either, unless of course they owned it. What I do believe is that the club is richer in all aspects if engagement with the supporters is right.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:04:43 GMT
It doesn't matter whether Rick Everitt is "bitter" or not. The fact is that he did more on his own to save Charlton in the 80s than 500 prating nellies like @incorruptibleaddick. Rick has consistently said that our real gates this season - that is turnstile headcount - are 10,000-11,000. If the football is so great, and the manager and owner so orgasmically wonderful, why are our home attendances so fucking bad this season? 10,000 ST holders pay £200 for their ST, Club earns £2m None of them turn up. Guess what? The Club still earns £2m. Next season only 8,000 renew, but now at the cost of £225. Club earns £1.8m. Not sure if the owner gives two shits about the odd £200k. He's saved that by just off loading Morrison. Thanks for making my point for me. The Owner doesn't give two shits that we are shedding fans because of him. He will just ramp the prices up for those who remain. Ultimately though he will run out of fans to inflict his increases on. The law of diminishing returns.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:04:50 GMT
"We have offered KM our help." FFS...hubris or what? IA, if nothing I say works for you why not ignore it? I think that's what I'll be doing with your stalking from now on. EDIT: Actually I will pick that up. You know, I'm not going to apologise for thinking that engaging with the supporter base can enhance the club. Hubris? More a confidence in the resourcefulness of Charlton supporters, based on decades of real life experience.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:06:53 GMT
@spottydog But our attendances in League One were 5,000 higher when we were playing Rochdale and Dagenham and Redbridge etc. The fact is that Charlton fans are turned off by this owner, and his model of football. Because despite the occasional flurry of good performances, the fundamentals behind the scenes are all wrong. Wrong owner. Wrong CEO. Wrong Head Coach. Wrong business model for an English working man's Club. charlton v rochdale 2012 1-1 15,067 we won the reverse 3-2 in front of 2,909 charlton v Dagenham 2010 2-2 , 14,806 we lost the reverse fixture 2-1, the attendance was 3,505 average home gate 2011-2012 17,485 these are the facts , would you rather be back there ? bigger picture , not that much difference
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Post by overthetop on Mar 23, 2015 15:07:18 GMT
@spottydog But our attendances in League One were 5,000 higher when we were playing Rochdale and Dagenham and Redbridge etc. The fact is that Charlton fans are turned off by this owner, and his model of football. Because despite the occasional flurry of good performances, the fundamentals behind the scenes are all wrong. Wrong owner. Wrong CEO. Wrong Head Coach. Wrong business model for an English working man's Club. Wrong conclusion. We were having our record breaking season. Guaranteed to sell out if we having a similar season in the Championship. Oh and the Rochdale game attracted 15,067 and the D&R game 14,806. So yet again you're talking bollocks and making up statistics to support your outdated arguement.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:08:27 GMT
"We have offered KM our help." FFS...hubris or what? You think hubris is something to dip your pitta bread in. hope its only his pita getting dipped !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:13:20 GMT
@spottydog But our attendances in League One were 5,000 higher when we were playing Rochdale and Dagenham and Redbridge etc. The fact is that Charlton fans are turned off by this owner, and his model of football. Because despite the occasional flurry of good performances, the fundamentals behind the scenes are all wrong. Wrong owner. Wrong CEO. Wrong Head Coach. Wrong business model for an English working man's Club. Wrong conclusion. We were having our record breaking season. Guaranteed to sell out if we having a similar season in the Championship. Oh and the Rochdale game attracted 15,067 and the D&R game 14,806. So yet again you're talking bollocks and making up statistics to support your outdated arguement. No, not the wrong conclusion, just one you disagree with. We may have been getting 14,00-15,000 in League One- I would argue that it was an affront to our Club to even be in that league, but thanks to Richard Murray anyway, but our gates now are 11,000-12,000. Go back to Parky's relegation season not so long ago and we were getting 17-18,000. People like you remind me of Mr Magoo. Were you at the Reading game on Saturday? North Upper - traditional hardcore of our most passionate supporters - a third empty North Lower - 60% empty West Stand - 60% empty East Stand - don't go there....seen more life in Reams' underpants. You people are just in denial. Just because you are happy that Buyens can take a penalty, don't think there are not thousands who could not give a toss, and now spend their Saturday afternoons in IKEA.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:14:37 GMT
Can't help thinking Nick's done a lot of arguing with himself on this thread.
Anyway, our average attendance in our last League One season - when we were playing Rochdale, D&R, etc - was 17,428. It's now a grand or so down on that but bear in mind we're playing a division above, presumably more attractive teams, and of course average away attendance is also considerably higher in this division.
KM did point out that one of the major benefits of season ticket sales - cash flow during the close season - is not really an issue under RD. But an empty ground isn't high on their list of priorities, that's a fact.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:24:58 GMT
Wrong conclusion. We were having our record breaking season. Guaranteed to sell out if we having a similar season in the Championship. Oh and the Rochdale game attracted 15,067 and the D&R game 14,806. So yet again you're talking bollocks and making up statistics to support your outdated arguement. No, not the wrong conclusion, just one you disagree with. We may have been getting 14,00-15,000 in League One- I would argue that it was an affront to our Club to even be in that league, but thanks to Richard Murray anyway, but our gates now are 11,000-12,000. Go back to Parky's relegation season not so long ago and we were getting 17-18,000. People like you remind me of Mr Magoo. Were you at the Reading game on Saturday? North Upper - traditional hardcore of our most passionate supporters - a third empty North Lower - 60% empty West Stand - 60% empty East Stand - don't go there....seen more life in Reams' underpants. You people are just in denial. Just because you are happy that Buyens can take a penalty, don't think there are not thousands who could not give a toss, and now spend their Saturday afternoons in IKEA. isnt this "just football" tho ? Its harder to get people back than it is for them to up sticks and leave, as in the Parky era, maybe hes to blame ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 15:37:36 GMT
Royston those crap belgium footballers are not doing to bad are they did you cheer when Buyens scored 2 goals .And it is all about the Premiership that's where the money is like it or not .And that is where RD wants us to be he would not of bought us otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 16:20:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 16:49:19 GMT
No, not the wrong conclusion, just one you disagree with. We may have been getting 14,00-15,000 in League One- I would argue that it was an affront to our Club to even be in that league, but thanks to Richard Murray anyway, but our gates now are 11,000-12,000. Go back to Parky's relegation season not so long ago and we were getting 17-18,000. People like you remind me of Mr Magoo. Were you at the Reading game on Saturday? North Upper - traditional hardcore of our most passionate supporters - a third empty North Lower - 60% empty West Stand - 60% empty East Stand - don't go there....seen more life in Reams' underpants. You people are just in denial. Just because you are happy that Buyens can take a penalty, don't think there are not thousands who could not give a toss, and now spend their Saturday afternoons in IKEA. isnt this "just football" tho ? Its harder to get people back than it is for them to up sticks and leave, as in the Parky era, maybe hes to blame ? Yep, nail on the head. Which is exactly why you don't want to lose them in the first place.
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Post by browntalk on Mar 23, 2015 17:10:39 GMT
[b So your not interested in cafc fans is that all I get out of this? Your so up your arse about trust rules that you've forgotten what you actually stand for? I'm not bothered about what this FCA rule says I am interested in Cafc flourishing. Surely, you won't follow FCA rules to the detriment of cafc? You've been banging on for months about meeting Katrien and having 'meetings' and saying you have excellent trust members that could help cafc - then what are you after? It implies to me more than a free digestive? I am sure I read somewhere your ambitions to advise the board??!!! I think the trust are in desperate need of a realism and PR adviser. And the way you correspond makes you look something of a pretentious dick. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm answering the questions you ask me. I can't help that you don't like the answers. Seriously, some of this is just common sense and/or reading to understand why things are the way they are. I'm trying to explain, but it feels a bit like trying to teach a dog maths at the moment. I'll give it one last go. - The Financial Conduct Authority is an industry regulator and we are accountable to them. It's the law. So yes, we will follow their rules or we'll end up in prison.
- We are a bunch of volunteers trying to make things better for Charlton supporters. Of course we're interested in CAFC fans - that's the reason we're giving up our spare time to do this - and a lot of time. Frankly it's a thankless task - SR will confirm - not least because people who have never met us think they know us and our ambitions intimately, and think it's ok to throw personal insults at us to boot.
- It's ok to debate us, I'm more than open to be persuaded through good argument, and I'm happy to agree to differ with people who are genuinely trying to see both sides. Sometimes on here it's about 10 on 1 though with little substance to conversation, which doesn't make it easy.
- We have offered KM our help. To date she has declined to take us up on this offer, but we still try because we believe Charlton supporters can make a big difference to the club.
- To my knowledge we've not contacted RD directly, but actually that was what we were asked to do by the Public Meeting; I think the consensus of that has offered some confusion.
- We continue to work with members of her team on various projects, but we're somewhat constrained by decisions taken above.
- The most I've personally ever had from the club in terms of hospitality was coffee and a cheap pen given to me at a Valley Gold committee meeting when mine ran out. Actually though I would see it as a good sign if any supporters' group was offered hospitality by the club, because it would reflect a positive attitude to the relationship.
I make no apology for believing that the club is better with the supporters' voice being heard on the board. The Supporters' Trust is the largest organised Charlton supporters' group, and has over 1200 full members. It is well placed, in my view, to offer something of benefit to the club.
What a load of shit. You offer nothing. You've just ripped £5 of supporters so you can play politics. You can't even show how your voting system works which is probably good as you will never get to use it. Leave the club alone your getting like Jehovahs witnesses.
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