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Post by aucklandaddick on Jun 15, 2024 15:07:19 GMT
Can we just leave this topic now guys as it's beyond boring. He hasn't even left yet and we're banging on about who gets what! Totally taken over the thread title so let's draw a line underneath it. Don't think anyone's interested in the in's and out's of transfer fees. Thank the lord…….👍🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by seriouslyred on Jun 15, 2024 16:11:01 GMT
To take this in a different direction, if we leave the emotional attachment to May (see Dobson) out of it then one could argue that a £1M fee arriving July 1st would be fantastic for our club. Why?
The management can use 100% of the proceeds towards the wage bill, and only a portion of outgoing fees count towards the SMCP limits. Most importantly our front six requires reinvention in terms of players, style and approach. Perhaps our manager feels that May might only be a bit part player, as per somebody's observation of the 16 games under Jones to date?
Will post more on the rumours thread but the fact is that not much has happened yet. We are starting to hear about players arriving and leaving and would expect Huddersfield and others to put in bids to test the water.
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Post by weststandfruitloop on Jun 15, 2024 18:59:52 GMT
To take this in a different direction, if we leave the emotional attachment to May (see Dobson) out of it then one could argue that a £1M fee arriving July 1st would be fantastic for our club. Why? The management can use 100% of the proceeds towards the wage bill, and only a portion of outgoing fees count towards the SMCP limits. As I understand things, it's kind of the other way round Outgoing fees don't count towards SCMP. We can pay out whatever we want in transfers (Ipswich spent £8.5m on transfer fees in 2022-23, for example). It's only wages that are capped (max 60% of turnover spent on overage outfielders' salaries). Incoming transfer fees count as turnover, so we can only spend 60% of what get from a May fee on (overage outfield) players' wages. Of course it's complicated further if you have to factor in how many years the fee is paid over, what gets lost to Cheltenham's sell-on (if they have one - given May's age there might well not have been one when we bought him) and so on. It certainly should add a decent amount to the available salary cap though (plus the amount saved on May's wages too). Anyway, as Reams says, we should really leave the minutiae of the fee until any transfer actually happens. |
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Post by seriouslyred on Jun 15, 2024 19:45:14 GMT
To take this in a different direction, if we leave the emotional attachment to May (see Dobson) out of it then one could argue that a £1M fee arriving July 1st would be fantastic for our club. Why? The management can use 100% of the proceeds towards the wage bill, and only a portion of outgoing fees count towards the SMCP limits. As I understand things, it's kind of the other way round Outgoing fees don't count towards SCMP. We can pay out whatever we want in transfers (Ipswich spent £8.5m on transfer fees in 2022-23, for example). It's only wages that are capped (max 60% of turnover spent on overage outfielders' salaries). Incoming transfer fees count as turnover, so we can only spend 60% of what get from a May fee on (overage outfield) players' wages. Of course it's complicated further if you have to factor in how many years the fee is paid over, what gets lost to Cheltenham's sell-on (if they have one - given May's age there might well not have been one when we bought him) and so on. It certainly should add a decent amount to the available salary cap though (plus the amount saved on May's wages too). Anyway, as Reams says, we should really leave the minutiae of the fee until any transfer actually happens. Whether it's 60% or 100% of the incoming fee is important. When one adds the wage saved on the outgoing player then this could be a significant addition to the budget. And it's only the cash part of an outgoing transfer fee / signing on fee that counts each season. Just talking theory, not detail. Plus the fact that we still need several quality additions in midfield and attack to deliver a meaningful upgrade on the last four seasons. |
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Post by aaronaldo on Jun 17, 2024 10:00:23 GMT
More ITK's seem to be suggesting this is "when" not "if".
Meltdown no. 2 already in full swing elsewhere.
I still maintain that it's all about who we would replace him with.
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Post by reamsofverse on Jun 17, 2024 10:11:00 GMT
More ITK's seem to be suggesting this is "when" not "if". Meltdown no. 2 already in full swing elsewhere. I still maintain that it's all about who we would replace him with. Cringeworthy forum, it really is. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on Jun 17, 2024 10:14:35 GMT
As I understand things, it's kind of the other way round Outgoing fees don't count towards SCMP. We can pay out whatever we want in transfers (Ipswich spent £8.5m on transfer fees in 2022-23, for example). It's only wages that are capped (max 60% of turnover spent on overage outfielders' salaries). Incoming transfer fees count as turnover, so we can only spend 60% of what get from a May fee on (overage outfield) players' wages. Of course it's complicated further if you have to factor in how many years the fee is paid over, what gets lost to Cheltenham's sell-on (if they have one - given May's age there might well not have been one when we bought him) and so on. It certainly should add a decent amount to the available salary cap though (plus the amount saved on May's wages too). Anyway, as Reams says, we should really leave the minutiae of the fee until any transfer actually happens. Whether it's 60% or 100% of the incoming fee is important. When one adds the wage saved on the outgoing player then this could be a significant addition to the budget. And it's only the cash part of an outgoing transfer fee / signing on fee that counts each season. Just talking theory, not detail. Plus the fact that we still need several quality additions in midfield and attack to deliver a meaningful upgrade on the last four seasons. Mods please can we set up a seperate thread to discuss the fee % of any deal we may or may not get if Alfie leaves or not 😀 |
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Post by kings hill addick on Jun 17, 2024 10:18:21 GMT
To be honest, if they are, even, close to £1m we would be mad not to accept it. Obviously we can keep haggling to squeeze a little bit more money from them, and we might be incentivised to hold off completing the sale until we have someone else coming in, but at the kind of money it should be when not if.
We need to remember that just because the new owners are billionaires they do not want to spend a fortune on our club and there is not a limitless pot of money and that £1m can be spent elsewhere.
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Post by reamsofverse on Jun 17, 2024 11:33:41 GMT
Looking odds on now that Alfie is off.
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Post by keepthefaith on Jun 17, 2024 16:31:11 GMT
Lots of talk about Dion Charles as an ideal replacement.. Unless he is going to a Championship side, it's clear that Huddersfield rate May more than him, for next season at least.
Either way I wouldn't want May to leave until we get a replacement in. Seen that one too many times, and clubs would hold us to ransom knowing we have just got a chunky transfer fee in, and are desperate for a replacement.
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Post by valley on Jun 17, 2024 16:32:49 GMT
Lots of talk about Dion Charles as an ideal replacement.. Unless he is going to a Championship side, it's clear that Huddersfield rate May more than him, for next season at least. Either way I wouldn't want May to leave until we get a replacement in. Seen that one too many times, and clubs would hold us to ransom knowing we have just got a chunky transfer fee in, and are desperate for a replacement. People have just taken charles name off here I can't see him at cafc. |
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Post by surridgecobbler5 on Jun 18, 2024 8:44:02 GMT
Personally I wouldn't want Dion Charles anywhere near a Charlton shirt , shocking Poser and totally bottled Wembley for Bolton.
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Post by earlpurple on Jun 18, 2024 9:51:21 GMT
For me it's one thing selling players when a higher league club comes calling, like we did with Gomez and Lookman, who moved to big clubs Liverpool and Everton.
Another thing when we are selling our key players to teams at the same level as us. If it is because Alfie May does not fit in with Nathan Jones's style of play then I guess that might be a decent reason, but it still sounds to me that there are other clubs in this league with bigger money than ourselves who are going to muscle away our best players and get promoted ahead of us. That is what I hoped getting "rich" owners would prevent, but it seems loads of clubs at this level now have rich owners, and many of them will probably "put in the capital" which overrides the SCMP rules. In which case how are we any better off now than we were under Thomas Sandgaard (other than maybe we have other senior staff in place).
I think for a number of years we may have been seen as a big club in this league but that has changed in the last 3 seasons where we finished 13th, 10th and 16th and players will see us as no more than mediocre mid-table playing in an expensive area and won't want to join us. We may already have been seen that way in the summer of 2019 when in spite of getting promoted, Patrick Bauer preferred to move to Preston North End who were going to be playing in the same league as us, rather than remain with us.
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Post by clarky on Jun 18, 2024 10:03:24 GMT
I get that May might not suit NJs style of play and therefore might not be a regular starter but it would show massive intent to have him on the bench to come on and cover injuries etc
Whilst there is no guarantee he will score 20+ goals again there is no guarantee that any replacement will be successful either. Sheer madness to potentially risk losing 20 goals and selling to a promotion chasing rival and giving them a potential 20 goal start.
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Post by cafcjack83 on Jun 18, 2024 10:32:41 GMT
I get that May might not suit NJs style of play and therefore might not be a regular starter but it would show massive intent to have him on the bench to come on and cover injuries etc Whilst there is no guarantee he will score 20+ goals again there is no guarantee that any replacement will be successful either. Sheer madness to potentially risk losing 20 goals and selling to a promotion chasing rival and giving them a potential 20 goal start. May does not want to sit on the bench for a season though and wants the move away - NJ wont stand in his way. If we're getting £1m or thereabouts for a squad player who isn't happy it makes sense to let him go. |
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Post by clarky on Jun 18, 2024 11:14:53 GMT
I get that May might not suit NJs style of play and therefore might not be a regular starter but it would show massive intent to have him on the bench to come on and cover injuries etc Whilst there is no guarantee he will score 20+ goals again there is no guarantee that any replacement will be successful either. Sheer madness to potentially risk losing 20 goals and selling to a promotion chasing rival and giving them a potential 20 goal start. May does not want to sit on the bench for a season though and wants the move away - NJ wont stand in his way. If we're getting £1m or thereabouts for a squad player who isn't happy it makes sense to let him go. I havent seen that May wants to move away but have seen he is not wanted. And a chunk of that £1m will go on a replacement and some of it will go to Cheltenham. Of those linked to us I don't see any of them as replacements (maybe Charles but doubt he will happen) but players who would complement a striker like May. Nobody wants to sit on the bench but somebody has to and it is up to that person to prove he is worthy of a starting spot. I just hope that if Huddersfield go up and we don't everybody thinks the circa £1m was worth it. |
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Post by essexaddick on Jun 18, 2024 11:27:29 GMT
May does not want to sit on the bench for a season though and wants the move away - NJ wont stand in his way. If we're getting £1m or thereabouts for a squad player who isn't happy it makes sense to let him go. I havent seen that May wants to move away but have seen he is not wanted. And a chunk of that £1m will go on a replacement and some of it will go to Cheltenham. Of those linked to us I don't see any of them as replacements (maybe Charles but doubt he will happen) but players who would complement a striker like May. Nobody wants to sit on the bench but somebody has to and it is up to that person to prove he is worthy of a starting spot. I just hope that if Huddersfield go up and we don't everybody thinks the circa £1m was worth it. I would have thought with the number of goals he has scored since joining us he has already proved worthy of a spot. |
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Post by clarky on Jun 18, 2024 11:47:35 GMT
I havent seen that May wants to move away but have seen he is not wanted. And a chunk of that £1m will go on a replacement and some of it will go to Cheltenham. Of those linked to us I don't see any of them as replacements (maybe Charles but doubt he will happen) but players who would complement a striker like May. Nobody wants to sit on the bench but somebody has to and it is up to that person to prove he is worthy of a starting spot. I just hope that if Huddersfield go up and we don't everybody thinks the circa £1m was worth it. I would have thought with the number of goals he has scored since joining us he has already proved worthy of a spot. I agree, but the only person who matters doesn't think that. What we all agree on is we all want to get out of this league. I believe that with the right players around May, something we didn't have last season, he will have another good season and promotion is more probable with him than without. I don't think for one minute he is Championship material and would need replacing should we get there, and I fully appreciate he wouldn command less of a transfer fee at that point but a 20 goal a season player with a good defence, midfield and goalkeeper behind him gives a better chance of getting to where we all aspire to be. |
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Post by roburwash on Jun 18, 2024 12:21:12 GMT
I would have thought with the number of goals he has scored since joining us he has already proved worthy of a spot. I agree, but the only person who matters doesn't think that. What we all agree on is we all want to get out of this league. I believe that with the right players around May, something we didn't have last season, he will have another good season and promotion is more probable with him than without. I don't think for one minute he is Championship material and would need replacing should we get there, and I fully appreciate he wouldn command less of a transfer fee at that point but a 20 goal a season player with a good defence, midfield and goalkeeper behind him gives a better chance of getting to where we all aspire to be. Absolutely this. Saying that May wouldn't cut it in the Championship is putting the cart before the horse. Let's get out of League 1 first and he can help us. He is a proven goalscorer in this league. As long as he wants to say, I hope he does and that Nathan Jones builds his attack round him. There's a greater chance that he will give us 20 goals than anyone else who comes in whom we haven't seen do it. If May is being made to feel superfluous the way Dobson was in December/January then I think it's another mistake. |
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Post by watameires on Jun 18, 2024 12:37:45 GMT
Valid points both ☝️
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Post by kings hill addick on Jun 18, 2024 13:18:51 GMT
For me it's one thing selling players when a higher league club comes calling, like we did with Gomez and Lookman, who moved to big clubs Liverpool and Everton. Another thing when we are selling our key players to teams at the same level as us. If it is because Alfie May does not fit in with Nathan Jones's style of play then I guess that might be a decent reason, but it still sounds to me that there are other clubs in this league with bigger money than ourselves who are going to muscle away our best players and get promoted ahead of us. That is what I hoped getting "rich" owners would prevent, but it seems loads of clubs at this level now have rich owners, and many of them will probably "put in the capital" which overrides the SCMP rules. In which case how are we any better off now than we were under Thomas Sandgaard (other than maybe we have other senior staff in place). I think for a number of years we may have been seen as a big club in this league but that has changed in the last 3 seasons where we finished 13th, 10th and 16th and players will see us as no more than mediocre mid-table playing in an expensive area and won't want to join us. We may already have been seen that way in the summer of 2019 when in spite of getting promoted, Patrick Bauer preferred to move to Preston North End who were going to be playing in the same league as us, rather than remain with us. I'm fairly sure that Preston paid Bauer much more than we were willing to. It, often, all comes down to money, sadly. |
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Post by 1978sussex on Jun 19, 2024 16:12:11 GMT
Huddesfield fans think alfie may is now a done deal
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Post by aucklandaddick on Jun 19, 2024 16:18:13 GMT
Huddesfield fans think alfie may is now a done deal Wycombe fans thought they had signed Berry……🤔🤔 If true absolute madness, the club shouldn’t be under any pressure to complete this deal so quickly if at all…..especially as we haven’t signed our new forwards…..huge own goal by the club IMO if this has legs…….Its hardly going to get a large proportion of the fan base on side and the undecided rushing to get their season tickets |
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Post by midlandsaddick on Jun 19, 2024 16:18:45 GMT
Huddesfield fans think alfie may is now a done deal Heard the same from a well connected town fan mate of mine. |
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Post by cafcjack83 on Jun 19, 2024 16:22:54 GMT
Huddesfield fans think alfie may is now a done deal Wycombe fans thought they had signed Berry……🤔🤔 If true absolute madness, the club shouldn’t be under any pressure to complete this deal so quickly if at all…..especially as we haven’t signed our new forwards…..huge own goal by the club IMO if this has legs…….Its hardly going to get a large proportion of the fan base on side and the undecided rushing to get their season tickets Maybe a deal in principle has been agreed (Transfer fee and wages) but wont be complete until we sign someone? The way the club is run now I'm sure we wouldn't stitch ourselves up. |
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Post by aucklandaddick on Jun 19, 2024 16:33:05 GMT
Wycombe fans thought they had signed Berry……🤔🤔 If true absolute madness, the club shouldn’t be under any pressure to complete this deal so quickly if at all…..especially as we haven’t signed our new forwards…..huge own goal by the club IMO if this has legs…….Its hardly going to get a large proportion of the fan base on side and the undecided rushing to get their season tickets Maybe a deal in principle has been agreed (Transfer fee and wages) but wont be complete until we sign someone? The way the club is run now I'm sure we wouldn't stitch ourselves up. You would hope so on the subject of us not stitching ourselves up…….but selling Alfie in the first place doesn’t make much sense to me…🤔 SLP said we were under no rush to make a decision and not until we had brought in our targets and Reams reiterated this earlier today so surprised these rumours from various sources on different forums are all saying the same…..Again I say if true absolute madness timing as clubs will now know we have a large chunk of cash under our bed…..unless of course we have already brought in and signed our targets? 🤔🤔🤔 |
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Post by reamsofverse on Jun 19, 2024 16:51:20 GMT
I'm afraid I have the same news. Looks like he's gone.
For all the fans who are going to kick off about this I suggest you consider this. Alfie could have said no and stayed and fought for his place.
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Post by valley on Jun 19, 2024 16:54:59 GMT
I'm afraid I have the same news. Looks like he's gone. For all the fans who are going to kick off about this I suggest you consider this. Alfie could have said no and stayed and fought for his place. Announcement?. |
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Post by cafcjack83 on Jun 19, 2024 16:56:19 GMT
I'm afraid I have the same news. Looks like he's gone. For all the fans who are going to kick off about this I suggest you consider this. Alfie could have said no and stayed and fought for his place. do you believe a replacement is therefore imminent? |
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Post by Mundell on Jun 19, 2024 17:01:52 GMT
It has seemed to me that one of our major issues in recent seasons has been a tendency to focus on signing (and retaining) players based on their individual contributions and perceived value while often failing completely to address the management of the squad holistically based on a clear view about playing system and style.
Alfie May obviously made a major contribution last season with 17 non-penalty League One goals, but even last season there were questions about how and where he should play. He often looked at his best when playing as a number ‘10’, though he’s clearly not a specialist ‘10’ and we don’t even know that Nathan Jones wants to play with one. May was never easy to accommodate in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 because he’s obviously not a number ‘9’. This is why he often played as a ‘7’, to howls of protest from many fans.
During the course of a season it makes sense to compromise and to look to find ways to accommodate your “best” players, but that’s much less justifiable preseason, especially when there is an element of “blank sheet of paper” about the development of the squad.
If Alfie May doesn’t fit with the way Nathan Jones wants to play then it makes no sense to retain him, especially if he can be sold for at or around a seven figure sum. It’s true that there are players who are so good that it makes sense to build the team around them, but anyone on our books that good is likely to move on to bigger and better things and we can clearly see that May is not in that category.
My inclination at this point is to trust Jones and the recruitment team. They know what they’re trying to build towards while we don’t. Somewhat paradoxically, and on balance, given that the club is clearly willing to let May move on, I’d now be more concerned if he ended up staying.
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