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Post by reamsofverse on Feb 22, 2024 20:01:21 GMT
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Post by aaronaldo on Feb 22, 2024 20:04:29 GMT
Smaller squad with better quality is needed
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Post by manikin on Feb 22, 2024 20:32:29 GMT
A fitter squad would be a good start.
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Post by divot on Feb 22, 2024 22:56:29 GMT
Smaller squad with better quality is needed It's been said by previous managers but when we've underperformed, we've added numbers. The loans will go and the fullbacks will go. Leaburn will be sold. Campbell (unless he shapes up) will go or be loaned to whoever will take him. The players currently out on loan will go...with hopefully Mitchell being retained. Dobson will go. I don't see too many surprises. |
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Post by weststandfruitloop on Feb 23, 2024 2:09:31 GMT
Smaller squad with better quality is needed It's been said by previous managers but when we've underperformed, we've added numbers. The loans will go and the fullbacks will go. Leaburn will be sold. Campbell (unless he shapes up) will go or be loaned to whoever will take him. The players currently out on loan will go...with hopefully Mitchell being retained. Dobson will go. I don't see too many surprises. Campbell is likely to be out of contract in the summer anyway (contract length never officially disclosed but signed in 2021 and not extended since). If we do what you say: get rid of the players out on loan (bar Mitchell), the full backs and Leaburn we'll have 12 players left! Realistically 28 players is the minimum needed for a L1/L2 season so we'd need to bring in 16 new players (most of the squad) which I think is pushing it. I suspect we'll keep more players than you expect (eg several of the full backs, new deals for one or two of the out of contract guys, perm deal offers made to Ladapo and Camara). |
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 23, 2024 8:40:52 GMT
More common sense from Nathan Jones 👏
He has now spent two weeks working with our squad, and concluded the same as us - that it’s a ragbag of misfits , stuck together by Andy Scott.
Well done to Nathan for going public on this, but what does it say about Scott’s professional competence 🤔
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Post by sevenoaks on Feb 23, 2024 9:03:40 GMT
More common sense from Nathan Jones 👏 He has now spent two weeks working with our squad, and concluded the same as us - that it’s a ragbag of misfits , stuck together by Andy Scott. Well done to Nathan for going public on this, but what does it say about Scott’s professional competence 🤔 Quite a lot without saying it. 🤣 |
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Post by seriouslyred on Feb 23, 2024 9:06:22 GMT
There are 13 loans and players out of contract in a few months. Three are already out on loan plus Fraser and McGrandles. Hector is injured and just three are playing regularly: Dobson, Camara and Thomas.
We certainly need to release those players who don't feature in Jones' thinking. As games are played and we hopefully secure the wins we need, there are going to be some interesting conversations behind closed doors concerning who we might retain, and what the budget looks like to acquire these "elite" players.
Naturally there will always be some who want to sack everybody! But at the end of the season there will need to be a thorough appraisal of where we are and what it will take to get us back into the top six next season. Anything lower is a fail!
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Post by se7sm on Feb 23, 2024 9:39:31 GMT
Well, if we get relegated, the squad will have to be chopped for sure I can see us losing all our elite players🤔
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Post by richmondse10exile on Feb 23, 2024 9:45:11 GMT
Well, if we get relegated, the squad will have to be chopped for sure I can see us losing all our elite players🤔 Define ‘elite’ - 😉 Thinking about it - yes please do. The Manager talking sense. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Feb 23, 2024 9:51:29 GMT
Every call Nathan Jones makes makes Scott look like the pathetic clueless Technical Director he thinks he is.
Friends Renited shut down years ago so Rodwell and co. there was just no need to 'create' a job for his mate.
Get rid of Scott and let the management team do the wheeling and dealing.
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Post by se7sm on Feb 23, 2024 9:54:03 GMT
Well, if we get relegated, the squad will have to be chopped for sure I can see us losing all our elite players🤔 Define ‘elite’ - 😉 Thinking about it - yes please do. The Manager talking sense. you know all those superior players Scott has signed ready for our premiership, push |
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Post by bexleyboy on Feb 23, 2024 9:55:35 GMT
Well, if we get relegated, the squad will have to be chopped for sure I can see us losing all our elite players🤔 Define ‘elite’ - 😉 Thinking about it - yes please do. The Manager talking sense. Why they wont get better wages even in league one so they will stay .. in league two , Leaburn will stay he got to prove his fitness start of next season … he wants two players for each position .. already got that in the keepers position if any leave it will be AMB .. full backs we have two players for each position .. centre back might be where the changes happen, midfield there will be changes looking to add one or two more attacking players , up front all depends on how Aneke does the rest of this season and how Leaburn comes back from this injury so two question marks there ? Kanu out on loan so that only leaves May so one or two new additions there .. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Feb 23, 2024 10:51:51 GMT
Define ‘elite’ - 😉 Thinking about it - yes please do. The Manager talking sense. Why they wont get better wages even in league one so they will stay .. in league two , Leaburn will stay he got to prove his fitness start of next season … he wants two players for each position .. already got that in the keepers position if any leave it will be AMB .. full backs we have two players for each position .. centre back might be where the changes happen, midfield there will be changes looking to add one or two more attacking players , up front all depends on how Aneke does the rest of this season and how Leaburn comes back from this injury so two question marks there ? Kanu out on loan so that only leaves May so one or two new additions there .. Very odd. |
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 23, 2024 12:03:11 GMT
Define ‘elite’ - 😉 Thinking about it - yes please do. The Manager talking sense. Why they wont get better wages even in league one so they will stay .. in league two , Leaburn will stay he got to prove his fitness start of next season … he wants two players for each position .. already got that in the keepers position if any leave it will be AMB .. full backs we have two players for each position .. centre back might be where the changes happen, midfield there will be changes looking to add one or two more attacking players , up front all depends on how Aneke does the rest of this season and how Leaburn comes back from this injury so two question marks there ? Kanu out on loan so that only leaves May so one or two new additions there .. You still haven’t been able to provide evidence that Curbs said relegation would not be a disaster. There must be a vague suspicion that you were fibbing bexleyboy |
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Feb 23, 2024 12:06:07 GMT
There are 13 loans and players out of contract in a few months. Three are already out on loan plus Fraser and McGrandles. Hector is injured and just three are playing regularly: Dobson, Camara and Thomas. We certainly need to release those players who don't feature in Jones' thinking. As games are played and we hopefully secure the wins we need, there are going to be some interesting conversations behind closed doors concerning who we might retain, and what the budget looks like to acquire these "elite" players. Naturally there will always be some who want to sack everybody! But at the end of the season there will need to be a thorough appraisal of where we are and what it will take to get us back into the top six next season. Anything lower is a fail! Just for the record seriouslyred , and no doubt as a Guardian reader you struggle with facts at times, I don’t want to “sack everybody”. I want sacked the three members of the SMT who have done such a shit job, and around half the squad who are clearly neither elite, nor up to it. |
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Post by zenga on Feb 23, 2024 15:01:50 GMT
All good and dandy but issues I'd like to see addressed:
- How come that seemingly good players did stayed under their potential at Charlton in the past years (Kirk, Fraser, ... come to mind). Many times I read here that x, y or z player were good signings, yet more often than not they didn't live up to their potential.
- I don't have any objective data, but I have a feeling that relative to other clubs CA has to deal with way more injuries than most other clubs, despite having used 40 players.
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Post by Mundell on Feb 23, 2024 16:01:44 GMT
I think it’s important not to over interpret what Jones has said about the size of the squad. Right now he’s laser focused on a brutally clear objective. Survival. He’s got thirteen games and he needs to win enough points to avoid relegation. Nothing else matters. He’s got no need to worry about playing in cups, player development or long term planning.
It stands to reason that in an ideal world he wants to work with a relatively small and tight knit group of players with whom he can build a rapport and share his key messages. He hasn’t got time to worry about whether Lewis Fiorini might contribute if given time or if Terry Taylor, given the opportunity, might fit well alongside either Coventry or Dobson or if he might be useful backup for either or both of them. He’s probably also had to make some quick decisions about players. There’s no time to experiment.
Given all of this he almost certainly feels he’s got too many players to worry about and the squad probably is a bit too big, but how much too big? Is this really another sign of dysfunction in our recruitment?
The current playing squad, excluding those out on loan, is as follows,
First Team Squad (28)
Goalkeepers (3)
Harry Isted
Ashley Maynard-Brewer
Lewis Ward
Right Backs (3)
Nathan Asiimwe
Kayne Ramsay
Tennai Watson
Centre Backs (6)
Rarmani Edmonds-Green
Macaulay Gillesphey
Michael Hector
Lloyd Jones
Lucas Ness
Terell Thomas
Left Backs (2)
Tayo Edun
Thierry Small
Central Midfielders (8)
Karoy Anderson
Tyreeq Bakinson
Panutche Camara
Conor Coventry
George Dobson
Lewis Fiorini
Terry Taylor
Louie Watson
Midfielders/Wingers (1)
Tyreece Campbell
Strikers (5)
Chuks Aneke
Daniel Kanu
Freddie Ladapo
Miles Leaburn
Alfie May
Football today is an 18 man game so a First XI squad of, say, 25 players has seven players to cover for injuries, suspensions, rotation and tactical adjustments from match to match. There are 28 players listed above, including 3 goalkeepers, 5 of which are on loan. And it might be argued that all five of those players are on extended trials, a low risk way of deciding whether a player fits.
When Ladapo was signed on loan, the club knew that Leaburn was out for the season and would not (and cannot) have been able to assume that Aneke would be able to play many minutes. Similarly, the injury to Hector may have influenced the recruitment of Edmonds Green. The final addition to the squad, Thierry Small, appears to have been a speculative “punt” who, based on his performance at Bolton, might just prove to be an inspired signing.
Finally, Asiimwe, Anderson and Kanu are all academy products with a lot to prove. Even at the beginning of January it would not have made sense to “count” them as fully fledged squad members expected to enjoy significant game time.
The squad will, no doubt, be pruned in the summer and hopefully upgraded too, but to imply that its current size is yet another indictment of our recruitment is very harsh. There are many things we can be critical of, including the balance of the squad, but its size isn’t one of them in my view.
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cafcph
Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 120
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Post by cafcph on Feb 23, 2024 16:17:02 GMT
Every call Nathan Jones makes makes Scott look like the pathetic clueless Technical Director he thinks he is. Friends Renited shut down years ago so Rodwell and co. there was just no need to 'create' a job for his mate. Get rid of Scott and let the management team do the wheeling and dealing. couldn’t agree more. |
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crapgame
Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 112
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Post by crapgame on Feb 23, 2024 17:07:36 GMT
Every call Nathan Jones makes makes Scott look like the pathetic clueless Technical Director he thinks he is. Friends Renited shut down years ago so Rodwell and co. there was just no need to 'create' a job for his mate. Get rid of Scott and let the management team do the wheeling and dealing. couldn’t agree more. Don't know if anyone else has, but I have noticed in all of NJ's interviews he makes references to 'himself' and the 'players' and his retoric is definitely focused as a 'manager' not a 'coach'. i.e I'm in charge, I will make the decisions etc etc! That's my interpretation anyway! |
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Post by Mundell on Feb 23, 2024 17:23:09 GMT
Don't know if anyone else has, but I have noticed in all of NJ's interviews he makes references to 'himself' and the 'players' and his retoric is definitely focused as a 'manager' not a 'coach'. i.e I'm in charge, I will make the decisions etc etc! That's my interpretation anyway! He’s also talked about collaboration with Scott and the Director of Performance et al and that’s a big positive in my view. However, if instead he wants to be “in charge” and sees himself in a power struggle that’s not good, no matter how much people might want those he’s confronting to lose. He’s right when he says the club will succeed if everyone works together. |
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Post by seriouslyred on Feb 23, 2024 18:26:31 GMT
All good and dandy but issues I'd like to see addressed: - How come that seemingly good players did stayed under their potential at Charlton in the past years (Kirk, Fraser, ... come to mind). Many times I read here that x, y or z player were good signings, yet more often than not they didn't live up to their potential. - I don't have any objective data, but I have a feeling that relative to other clubs CA has to deal with way more injuries than most other clubs, despite having used 40 players. People have asked that same question about CAFC injuries before. We certainly need objective comparative data across league one. We might also consider that SE7 Partners have recently recruited a Director of Performance who was the deputy director at Brighton. Ideally that and better recruitment delivers an uplift next season. As for making the most of players recruited, it's been a long, long tome since the set up at Sparrows Lane has added value to the players and squad overall! One could go back to 2018/19 when the squad climbed the table, win the play-offs with a large number going on to better clubs over time. Since ESI and Sandgaard running the show, not so much. |
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Post by chertseyaddick on Mar 2, 2024 17:30:50 GMT
Not sure if our scouting network stretches to Scotland, but we should be looking at Theo Bair at Motherwell. Young, pacy, powerful and won't break the bank.
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Post by LoyalAddick on Mar 2, 2024 18:19:58 GMT
Hopefully see half these players leave at the end of the season majority of them ain't good enough.
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Post by jonkool on Mar 2, 2024 18:27:29 GMT
Hopefully see half these players leave at the end of the season majority of them ain't good enough. I suspect you’re right but there is certainly time for players to step up between now and the end of the season! |
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Mar 2, 2024 18:51:15 GMT
Hopefully see half these players leave at the end of the season majority of them ain't good enough. There’s definitely the sound of a team there for next season , now that some of these players are benefiting from better coaching. REG, Jones, Small and Gillesphey are worth retaining in defence. I’d ditch TT, Hector, Ness, Edun, Tennai and both keepers. As seriouslyred correctly observed via his VDU, he’s noticed an improvement in the midfield with Karoy, Dobson & Coventry definitely showing promise. And we have May & Leaburn & Kanu up front …so there are some promising signs under Nathan Jones. |
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Post by seriouslyred on Mar 2, 2024 19:19:55 GMT
I think it’s important not to over interpret what Jones has said about the size of the squad. Right now he’s laser focused on a brutally clear objective. Survival. He’s got thirteen games and he needs to win enough points to avoid relegation. Nothing else matters. He’s got no need to worry about playing in cups, player development or long term planning. It stands to reason that in an ideal world he wants to work with a relatively small and tight knit group of players with whom he can build a rapport and share his key messages. He hasn’t got time to worry about whether Lewis Fiorini might contribute if given time or if Terry Taylor, given the opportunity, might fit well alongside either Coventry or Dobson or if he might be useful backup for either or both of them. He’s probably also had to make some quick decisions about players. There’s no time to experiment. Given all of this he almost certainly feels he’s got too many players to worry about and the squad probably is a bit too big, but how much too big? Is this really another sign of dysfunction in our recruitment? The current playing squad, excluding those out on loan, is as follows, First Team Squad (28) Goalkeepers (3) Harry Isted Ashley Maynard-Brewer Lewis Ward Right Backs (3) Nathan Asiimwe Kayne Ramsay Tennai Watson Centre Backs (6) Rarmani Edmonds-Green Macaulay Gillesphey Michael Hector Lloyd Jones Lucas Ness Terell Thomas Left Backs (2) Tayo Edun Thierry Small Central Midfielders (8) Karoy Anderson Tyreeq Bakinson Panutche Camara Conor Coventry George Dobson Lewis Fiorini Terry Taylor Louie Watson Midfielders/Wingers (1) Tyreece Campbell Strikers (5) Chuks Aneke Daniel Kanu Freddie Ladapo Miles Leaburn Alfie May Football today is an 18 man game so a First XI squad of, say, 25 players has seven players to cover for injuries, suspensions, rotation and tactical adjustments from match to match. There are 28 players listed above, including 3 goalkeepers, 5 of which are on loan. And it might be argued that all five of those players are on extended trials, a low risk way of deciding whether a player fits. When Ladapo was signed on loan, the club knew that Leaburn was out for the season and would not (and cannot) have been able to assume that Aneke would be able to play many minutes. Similarly, the injury to Hector may have influenced the recruitment of Edmonds Green. The final addition to the squad, Thierry Small, appears to have been a speculative “punt” who, based on his performance at Bolton, might just prove to be an inspired signing. Finally, Asiimwe, Anderson and Kanu are all academy products with a lot to prove. Even at the beginning of January it would not have made sense to “count” them as fully fledged squad members expected to enjoy significant game time. The squad will, no doubt, be pruned in the summer and hopefully upgraded too, but to imply that its current size is yet another indictment of our recruitment is very harsh. There are many things we can be critical of, including the balance of the squad, but its size isn’t one of them in my view. Eight days, three games and five points later we have a little more clarity on the way Jones wants to play AND the players / combinations he prefers in order to climb away from relegation. He's had the luxury of resting Aneke today because on Tuesday night we absolutely require the best result possible. But overall our striker options require radical and expensive surgery over the summer. For sure Leaburn will be back and Kanu has improved but Ladapo and May simply aren't convincing. Central midfield on the other hand has seen a vast improvement, AND there are plenty set to leave in just three months time. Likewise in central defence where contract renewal decisions are required. The keeper discussion is a tad sensitive right now, and many would agree that we need to bring in better over the summer. As for wingback? Small has been a revelation and T. Watson certainly giving his all under Jones. There's a survival plan to execute throughout March and April. At least the first few games have gone OK with vital games coming up. Only once we climb to 16th might we then relax and consider who's out of contract that's actually being utilised. As you state, they're effectively in trial. But if the owners, SMT and football management wish to convert our club into a top six side next season hard choices need to be made. And significant funds injected for replacements. |
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Post by weststandfruitloop on Mar 3, 2024 14:43:24 GMT
The original article refers to the fact that we have used 46 players this season, so when Jones is talking about cutting the squad I don't think he means quite as low as some imagine. 28 players is generally speaking the norm for L1 these days. That usually means around 19 overage players (bearing in mind the squad cap for those is 22) plus 2-3 goalkeepers and half a dozen under-21s. Assuming (a pretty big assumption) we can remain in L1 what are you hoping/expecting to see in terms of changes? Here's my wishlist for next season. I've assumed that most of our overage outward loans will be moved on, alongside Taylor who NJ seems not to fancy and AMB to make way for a new first choice keeper. I've also pencilled a few whose contracts expire should they do enough for us to offer and them accept a new one (and pay off the Hungarians in Dobbo's case). My squad has around six perms plus 2-3 loans coming in, which I don't think is unfeasible for a summer transfer window and partial rebuild. Attachments:
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Post by reamsofverse on Mar 3, 2024 15:22:16 GMT
That's pretty accurate apart from Henry.
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Post by Professor Glum on Mar 3, 2024 15:48:44 GMT
Being also an Irish Fan, I have been really impressed with Bosun Lawal (Fleetwood Town, on loan from Celtic), mainly played at CB, however the Fleetwood Manger recently has moved him into CM, Big, Stong, Quick, seems the ideal candidate for us, in either position.
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