Appleton warns clueless SE7 Partners

[Occam’s Razor]

Dec 13, 2023 19:28:01 GMT seriouslyred said:

Dec 13, 2023 17:52:20 GMT reamsofverse said:

All sacked managers come at a cost but any compensation due won't have been paid up in full at the point of Holden's departure. Not a chance.

I'd add a few thoughts to that:
- whatever the compensation (notice period) it's buttons in the bigger picture of losses plus transfer fees required to return us to the top 30 in this country
- amazing how some are so squeamish / love to hug the "victim"! Bottom line is that Holden changed approach over the summer and secured 3 points from our opening five games
- perhaps we should get used to a head coach replacement every 12 months rather than love in with the guy that picks the team? If a coach fails to deliver to the top six budget then no thanks! 😉

These arguments that the manager / head coach needs longer / better players etc is simply a recipe for buying / failing to buy success, rather than asking all ar Sparrows Lane to put in the hard graft to climb a few places every season.

If we finish mid-table again then we're nowhere. Se7, Scott and Appleton need to ensure that we're in a good place as we approach the summer.

“Perhaps we should get used to a new coach every 12 months”

From memory, I recall that you boycotted Selhurst & Upton Park in our wilderness years, before becoming leader of CAST, but I remind you that longevity was the key to the success of our two greatest post war managers.

[Occam’s Razor]

Dec 13, 2023 19:56:18 GMT kings hill addick said:

Dec 13, 2023 19:28:01 GMT seriouslyred said:

I'd add a few thoughts to that:
- whatever the compensation (notice period) it's buttons in the bigger picture of losses plus transfer fees required to return us to the top 30 in this country
- amazing how some are so squeamish / love to hug the "victim"! Bottom line is that Holden changed approach over the summer and secured 3 points from our opening five games
- perhaps we should get used to a head coach replacement every 12 months rather than love in with the guy that picks the team? If a coach fails to deliver to the top six budget then no thanks! 😉

These arguments that the manager / head coach needs longer / better players etc is simply a recipe for buying / failing to buy success, rather than asking all ar Sparrows Lane to put in the hard graft to climb a few places every season.

If we finish mid-table again then we're nowhere. Se7, Scott and Appleton need to ensure that we're in a good place as we approach the summer.

I agree with that but I think the wage bill can be a bit of a red herring when large wages are being paid to players that just do not contribute. I’m thinking of Aneke and Kirk, mostly, but we have others that are using up the budget for no contribution.

Charlton are wasting at least £13,000 a week on the wages of Kirk & Aneke combined. It’s literally dead money. They both have to go in January. Give Kirk a free transfer, and pay Aneke up.

[Mundell]

Dec 13, 2023 19:56:18 GMT kings hill addick said:

Dec 13, 2023 19:28:01 GMT seriouslyred said:

I'd add a few thoughts to that:
- whatever the compensation (notice period) it's buttons in the bigger picture of losses plus transfer fees required to return us to the top 30 in this country
- amazing how some are so squeamish / love to hug the "victim"! Bottom line is that Holden changed approach over the summer and secured 3 points from our opening five games
- perhaps we should get used to a head coach replacement every 12 months rather than love in with the guy that picks the team? If a coach fails to deliver to the top six budget then no thanks! 😉

These arguments that the manager / head coach needs longer / better players etc is simply a recipe for buying / failing to buy success, rather than asking all ar Sparrows Lane to put in the hard graft to climb a few places every season.

If we finish mid-table again then we're nowhere. Se7, Scott and Appleton need to ensure that we're in a good place as we approach the summer.

I agree with that but I think the wage bill can be a bit of a red herring when large wages are being paid to players that just do not contribute. I’m thinking of Aneke and Kirk, mostly, but we have others that are using up the budget for no contribution.

I agree with that observation kings hill addick All other things being equal there ought to be a clear link between wage bill and league table position. Having funded a top six (or better) wage budget Thomas Sandgaard might have reasonably expected to finish in the playoffs, but under his dysfunctional management that budget was spent so badly we ended up mid table. 

The problem for SE7 is that while they are incurring the losses required to fund a top six wage bill (and indeed we know the club breached the SCMP, requiring an equity injection), the “effective” wage bill is likely to be much lower. As you say, the wages being paid to Aneke and Kirk is essentially dead money and while Fraser is playing regularly it might be argued that he too is very expensive. To put this in perspective, the combined wages of those three might be as much as £1m p.a., which is a significant percentage of the total wage bill of many clubs in League One and enough to cover the cost of three or even four very decent League One players. 

Unfortunately, there isn’t really much SE7 can do about this. Aneke, Kirk and Fraser are all contracted to end June 2025 and not one of those players is going anywhere. Scott and Appleton are swimming against the tide. 

[Mundell]

Dec 13, 2023 17:41:20 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

Dec 13, 2023 17:34:32 GMT reamsofverse said:

Mundell

Thanks for the reply.
It’s a little optimistic to place SE7 Partners ahead of nasty Roland Duchatelet (copywrite Charlton Life) when the latter funded a team full of players who turned out to be Championship, Premier league and even Champions league standard, and who got us promoted.

Most of Andy Scott’s signings would get benched in a Dog & Duck XI.

Thanks for your reply Occam’s Razor and especially for the intel on CL. It is somewhat ironic that Roland Duchatelet is now being given some credit for his stewardship of the club given that he was vilified when he owned it and hounded, vindictively in his own backyard. 

My own view (as a lily livered apologist) has always been that Duchatelet was not the devil incarnate of popular wisdom and that the industrialisation of the protest movement against him was fundamentally misguided. Nevertheless, as I said in my post above, Duchatelet’s bizarre and unprofessional approach to the execution of strategy meant that he was never likely to deliver sustainable progress. This, in my view, is the big difference between the Belgian and SE7 with the latter setting out a much more structured and professional approach to the management of the club. That ought to deliver much better outcomes in the medium term. 

That said, I share your view that the recruitment since SE7 became involved has been disappointing and that this is a potential cause for concern. However, I have three reflections on this which leave me with an open mind.

First, SE7 were clearly not in complete control during the January and summer transfer windows and though he may have had some involvement, it is hard to judge how much influence Scott really had. This effect may have been compounded by the fact that he didn’t have, as a partner, a ‘bought in’ Head Coach to work and plan with. I know he’s said that our poor signings are ‘on him’, but I’d view that as a positive. At least he’s accepting responsibility and, hopefully, understands where improvements are needed. 

Second, recruitment is only one part of Scott’s role and, critically, one of his responsibilities is to put together a recruitment team and a process for them to work with. It’s entirely possible that we haven’t yet seen the finished article. Recruitment in the modern game is very much a multi-skilled team effort. 

Third, if Scott, Rodwell, the newly appointed director of performance or any other member of senior management don’t perform, then I’d expect them to be replaced. Methven will have a key role to play here and while I do not believe we’ll see a Sandgaard style revolving door or frequent changes of Head Coach, he will need to keep his investors onside so that they retain their confidence in him and continue to fund the club’s operating losses. Methven will need to explain the performance of both the business and the football team and give his view on whether the club is on track or whether changes are needed. 

In this context, it is important to note that Methven’s interests are aligned with those of the investors (because he has an ownership stake) and that he has no operational or executive role which might have compromised his ability to be objective. Methven’s role is going to be very important and it’s reassuring that he appears to be well informed and connected and that he has a good strategic grasp of the challenges ahead. In this sense, Methven is ultimately more important than either Scott or Appleton, even though in the short term the latter two are clearly much more significant to our chances of success. 

I’m happy to give SE7 time, but this is just my perspective as always. 

[seriouslyred]

Naturally Mundell we give SE7 time. For the only alternatives are to distance oneself...

Or throw rocks. Ultimately that's the same as screaming into the void! Therapeutic perhaps? But nobody's listening.

In the meantime opinions form and shift about the squad and management. And January edges ever closer.

Let's see where we are in February.

[gmantaxi]

Dec 14, 2023 9:03:36 GMT seriouslyred said:

Naturally Mundell we give SE7 time. For the only alternatives are to distance oneself...

Or throw rocks. Ultimately that's the same as screaming into the void! Therapeutic perhaps? But nobody's listening.

In the meantime opinions form and shift about the squad and management. And January edges ever closer.

Let's see where we are in February.

Gonna take a wild guess at Mid-Table ….

[Occam’s Razor]

Dec 14, 2023 9:03:36 GMT seriouslyred said:

Naturally Mundell we give SE7 time. For the only alternatives are to distance oneself...

Or throw rocks. Ultimately that's the same as screaming into the void! Therapeutic perhaps? But nobody's listening.

In the meantime opinions form and shift about the squad and management. And January edges ever closer.

Let's see where we are in February.

Or we can delude ourselves with meaningless Xg (your 2023 version of Sqwarka), when all that really matters as they say in retail, is “the bottom line”, which in our case is the League One table.

Looking at the Championship table- and unfortunately I don’t do it very often these days as a Charlton fan - it now seems very possible that our recent peers Ipswich Town will be playing Premier League football next season. They are already 10 points clear of the 3rd placed club, and 18 points clear of the 6th.

It’s no great mystery how Ipswich have achieved this . They poached and paid for a highly rated young First team coach from Manchester United, and supported him by spending over twice as much as we have on players and wages.

QED = you get what you pay for.

I sort of respect the view of Mundell that slowly slowly catchy monkey will eventually work, although I disagree with it.

[aaronaldo]

Dec 14, 2023 10:56:07 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

Dec 14, 2023 9:03:36 GMT seriouslyred said:

Naturally Mundell we give SE7 time. For the only alternatives are to distance oneself...

Or throw rocks. Ultimately that's the same as screaming into the void! Therapeutic perhaps? But nobody's listening.

In the meantime opinions form and shift about the squad and management. And January edges ever closer.

Let's see where we are in February.

Or we can delude ourselves with meaningless Xg (your 2023 version of Sqwarka), when all that really matters as they say in retail, is “the bottom line”, which in our case is the League One table.

Looking at the Championship table- and unfortunately I don’t do it very often these days as a Charlton fan - it now seems very possible that our recent peers Ipswich Town will be playing Premier League football next season. They are already 10 points clear of the 3rd placed club, and 18 points clear of the 6th.

It’s no great mystery how Ipswich have achieved this . They poached and paid for a highly rated young First team coach from Manchester United, and supported him by spending over twice as much as we have on players and wages.

QED = you get what you pay for.

I sort of respect the view of Mundell that slowly slowly catchy monkey will eventually work, although I disagree with it.

You realise xG is widely recognised across Football at the highest level and is even considered as a barometer on performance for managers? Andy Scott has literally said they use it when recruiting managers and on measuring their performance.

Ignore it if you wish, but football changes and it's here to stay. It's also far from meaningless.

[Occam’s Razor]

Dec 14, 2023 11:14:54 GMT aaronaldo said:

Dec 14, 2023 10:56:07 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

Or we can delude ourselves with meaningless Xg (your 2023 version of Sqwarka), when all that really matters as they say in retail, is “the bottom line”, which in our case is the League One table.

Looking at the Championship table- and unfortunately I don’t do it very often these days as a Charlton fan - it now seems very possible that our recent peers Ipswich Town will be playing Premier League football next season. They are already 10 points clear of the 3rd placed club, and 18 points clear of the 6th.

It’s no great mystery how Ipswich have achieved this . They poached and paid for a highly rated young First team coach from Manchester United, and supported him by spending over twice as much as we have on players and wages.

QED = you get what you pay for.

I sort of respect the view of Mundell that slowly slowly catchy monkey will eventually work, although I disagree with it.

You realise xG is widely recognised across Football at the highest level and is even considered as a barometer on performance for managers? Andy Scott has literally said they use it when recruiting managers and on measuring their performance.

Ignore it if you wish, but football changes and it's here to stay. It's also far from meaningless.

Andy “on the grass” Scott has said a lot of things, many of which have turned out to be dubious.

Was Scott looking at Tedic’s Xg when he signed him on loan ?

We have different perspectives on this , but just look at Ipswich Town, and how they have grown in the last two seasons, and look at us, paddling in the mud in mid table League One.

Xg is not worth a 🥕 when our recent peers have invested so cleverly, to all but guarantee a £190m TV windfall next May.

[Mundell]

A quick comment on Xg with the aim of squaring the circle rather than agreeing or disagreeing with anyone who has already commented. 

Ultimately, all that matters is results, points and League table position. I don’t think anyone can argue with that. 

Xg is obviously not an end in itself and, in and of itself, it does not directly contribute to results, points or League table position. 

However, Xg is a widely used and valuable measure of underlying performance which can help the Head Coach, Technical Director and owner/investor answer the question “how well are we playing and what next?” Is a team with 40 points from 20 games really that good? Do we expect to get another 40 points from the next 20 matches? What about a team with only 10 points from 20 games? All other things being equal, what might be expect from the next 20 matches? How much trouble are we in? Is a team with 25 points from 20 matches more likely to get 40 points from the next twenty or 10? 

These questions are important for two reasons. First, while on average underlying performance, measured by Xg, is likely to track closely to actual results and points won this is not always the case. Sometimes actual results are misleading and might suggest that a team is much better or much less effective than the reality of their underlying performances is indicating and, of course, this might have significant implications for what happens next. Results might (predictably) be about to disappoint or improve without any change in the way the team is playing. Second, armed with any insights gleaned from the data the Head Coach, TD and/or owner/investor can make better informed decisions. What needs to be done in the next transfer window or should the Head Coach be fired or retained, for example? 

In our case, the Xg data is fairly consistent with our results and hence tends to confirm what we already know. While this might not seem to help much it ought to enable the club to act with more confidence and conviction. There is less room for doubt or debate about the real underlying position. We can’t argue we’ve been unlucky. 

PS I’ll post a comment on the Lies, lies et al thread when we’ve played a few more games, but the headlines right now are that for Xg for from open play we rank 9th in the table and 10th for Xg against. Our rankings for Xg for and against from set plays are 21st and 20th, respectively. In other words, we appear to be bang average. From set plays we are amongst the weakest teams in the League at both ends of the pitch. Finally, there is little evidence of any improvement in this data since Michael Appleton was appointed. Source: Opta Analyst. 

[bexleyboy]

Dec 11, 2023 9:24:59 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

It’s beginning to feel a lot like a (Charlton) Christmas?

Here we go, from Rich Cawley this morning -

“Micheal Appleton says the January transfer window needs to be a “million times better” than the last two if Charlton have any chance of promotion.

Not the first first time that Appleton has talked about the squad, and it’s clear he feels major changes need to be made.

Appleton said “it would be stupid of me or daft of me not to say that if we are going to have any chance of getting out of this division this season, or next season, or the one after that. The transfer windows are massive”

There is no ambiguity here from Appleton.

Regardless of Xg, or points per games , or salivating about appointing a Director of Performance, this is the guy who works with this squad , day in day out. And he’s publicly calling out what most of us have seen - that Andy Scott isn’t good enough; and that the past two transfer windows under these weak kneed blaggers (SE7 Partners), have been piss poor, and are taking us nowhere fast.

Adkins, Jackson and Garner all publicly & privately fell out with Sandgaard over recruitment, and were fired

And Dean Holden had just gone public in saying SE7 Partners model for success is cheap kids and loans.

Maybe Appleton read Holden’s moments, and has reacted accordingly?

The alarm bells are ringing 👍

Only in your head …. ridiculous post Appleton not attacking anyone.

[bexleyboy]

Dec 13, 2023 20:08:49 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

Dec 13, 2023 19:56:18 GMT kings hill addick said:

I agree with that but I think the wage bill can be a bit of a red herring when large wages are being paid to players that just do not contribute. I’m thinking of Aneke and Kirk, mostly, but we have others that are using up the budget for no contribution.

Charlton are wasting at least £13,000 a week on the wages of Kirk & Aneke combined. It’s literally dead money. They both have to go in January. Give Kirk a free transfer, and pay Aneke up.

And what if Aneke don’t want that .. it takes two to agree .. again with Kirk teams wanted him in the summer but no one would pay is wages .. its not easy to get players out the door in Jan as players will sit tight till they have more options in the summer

[webbo]

Judging on results rather than XL Bully algorithms the new boss is the same as the old boss as it were.
Disappointing and depressing.
The one area of the club for which we can take a bit of pride is the development department.
If all our billionaires are turning out to be useless, maybe we should cut our cloth in order to break even, that might mean playing in non league in front of very low crowds, but it also might mean the club survives in the longer term.

[Occam’s Razor]

Dec 14, 2023 22:44:30 GMT bexleyboy said:

Dec 13, 2023 20:08:49 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

Charlton are wasting at least £13,000 a week on the wages of Kirk & Aneke combined. It’s literally dead money. They both have to go in January. Give Kirk a free transfer, and pay Aneke up.

And what if Aneke don’t want that .. it takes two to agree .. again with Kirk teams wanted him in the summer but no one would pay is wages .. its not easy to get players out the door in Jan as players will sit tight till they have more options in the summer

An owner with financial clout & football acumen pays both Aneke & Kirk off in January.

It’s not just the right thing to do from a squad perspective, it’s the right thing to do from a football perspective. It’s sending out a terrible message to the rest of the squad.

I think Kirk will get a free transfer in January come what may.

[Occam’s Razor]

Dec 19, 2023 9:35:01 GMT webbo said:

Judging on results rather than XL Bully algorithms the new boss is the same as the old boss as it were.
Disappointing and depressing.
The one area of the club for which we can take a bit of pride is the development department.
If all our billionaires are turning out to be useless, maybe we should cut our cloth in order to break even, that might mean playing in non league in front of very low crowds, but it also might mean the club survives in the longer term.

That’s always been SE7 Partners plan.

Reduce fixed costs & operating losses by selling Academy talent.

Unfortunately for Rodwell & Scott, Leaburn picked up a serious injury, Ness has gone backwards, and Assiinwe, Anderson, Elewere & Campbell were all chucked in too soon and haven’t pushed on as hoped.

With our only two saleable assets in the death throes of their existing contracts, SE7 Partners cupboard is bare in January.

[kings hill addick]

Dec 19, 2023 9:35:01 GMT webbo said:

Judging on results rather than XL Bully algorithms the new boss is the same as the old boss as it were.
Disappointing and depressing.
The one area of the club for which we can take a bit of pride is the development department.
If all our billionaires are turning out to be useless, maybe we should cut our cloth in order to break even, that might mean playing in non league in front of very low crowds, but it also might mean the club survives in the longer term.

I'm sure that you are aware of this, but the only way the club could hope to break even, in those circumstances, would be to move away from The Valley and play in a much, much smaller stadium. Probably, we would, also, have to reduce the academy to the point of, almost, closing it.

If that happened the £12.5m purchase price, and any losses funded, in the meantime, would all be gone and there would be, virtually, no chance of the club, ever, getting back to where is has been for most of it's history.

[webbo]

Yes I am aware of the implications. But there is also something unsettling about being dependent on the whims and largess of a rich person like at Wrexham or Newcastle or whoever.
My one exception to the parasite model would be if the rich benefactor was a genuine Charlton fan who wanted to indulge something they felt affinity to.
I would fund the club if I were rich enough because I am a fan.

[kings hill addick]

Dec 19, 2023 11:30:18 GMT webbo said:

Yes I am aware of the implications. But there is also something unsettling about being dependent on the whims and largess of a rich person like at Wrexham or Newcastle or whoever.
My one exception to the parasite model would be if the rich benefactor was a genuine Charlton fan who wanted to indulge something they felt affinity to.
I would fund the club if I were rich enough because I am a fan.

I agree with all of that. I was merely suggesting that the current owners would move the club on and/or just walk away rather than manage it downwards.

I, genuinely, believe that Methven has convinced the new owners that he can, with the new SCMP, achieve success with minimum investment. He might be right, but I fear that we will have to be patient and accept some mediocracy along the way. The impact on the long term fan base could take a hit, too.

[webbo]

All the time Methven puts it about that he is not in charge whilst being in charge makes him a challenge to trust.

[Occam’s Razor]

Dec 19, 2023 11:43:47 GMT kings hill addick said:

Dec 19, 2023 11:30:18 GMT webbo said:

Yes I am aware of the implications. But there is also something unsettling about being dependent on the whims and largess of a rich person like at Wrexham or Newcastle or whoever.
My one exception to the parasite model would be if the rich benefactor was a genuine Charlton fan who wanted to indulge something they felt affinity to.
I would fund the club if I were rich enough because I am a fan.

I agree with all of that. I was merely suggesting that the current owners would move the club on and/or just walk away rather than manage it downwards.

I, genuinely, believe that Methven has convinced the new owners that he can, with the new SCMP, achieve success with minimum investment. He might be right, but I fear that we will have to be patient and accept some mediocracy along the way. The impact on the long term fan base could take a hit, too.

I suspect this is correct.

Certainly, from what I have heard, the CAST / CARD lot believe that Methven / Scott / Rodwell have an arm’s length relationship from the foreign investors, and basically have autonomy to run the club as they see fit.

I guess the crunch will come when there is no success on the pitch, and the hitherto disinterested investors start to ask questions about where their money is going.

Methven / Scott / Rodwell have taken a calculated gamble with other people’s money that their bizarre football model can deliver success (ie promotion) before the hands off investor’s original tranche of cash runs out, and they start to ask some searching questions.

Supporters of SE7 Partners like seriouslyred and Mundell have claimed that if CM / AS / JR don’t deliver success they will be gone. The big unknown is what happens then ? Will the hands off foreign investors lose interest like Duchatelet & Sandgaard both eventually did ?

Trusting these blowhards is full of risk.

[Mundell]

Dec 19, 2023 12:39:12 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

Dec 19, 2023 11:43:47 GMT kings hill addick said:

I agree with all of that. I was merely suggesting that the current owners would move the club on and/or just walk away rather than manage it downwards.

I, genuinely, believe that Methven has convinced the new owners that he can, with the new SCMP, achieve success with minimum investment. He might be right, but I fear that we will have to be patient and accept some mediocracy along the way. The impact on the long term fan base could take a hit, too.

I suspect this is correct.

Certainly, from what I have heard, the CAST / CARD lot believe that Methven / Scott / Rodwell have an arm’s length relationship from the foreign investors, and basically have autonomy to run the club as they see fit.

I guess the crunch will come when there is no success on the pitch, and the hitherto disinterested investors start to ask questions about where their money is going.

Methven / Scott / Rodwell have taken a calculated gamble with other people’s money that their bizarre football model can deliver success (ie promotion) before the hands off investor’s original tranche of cash runs out, and they start to ask some searching questions.

Supporters of SE7 Partners like seriouslyred and Mundell have claimed that if CM / AS / JR don’t deliver success they will be gone. The big unknown is what happens then ? Will the hands off foreign investors lose interest like Duchatelet & Sandgaard both eventually did ?

Trusting these blowhards is full of risk.

I wouldn't say I'm a supporter of SE7 Occam’s Razor I've said that I think they have the potential to be very good owners. That's not quite the same. 

My guess is that the management of the club, Rodwell and Scott, have agreed a business plan and budget with the investors, that they have been empowered to get on and execute it, almost certainly within some agreed parameters, and that they will be required to report back regularly on progress, formally perhaps once a quarter, who knows for sure. That's not quite the same thing as 'arms length' or as having 'autonomy'. 

I have said that if the club's management don't deliver on the agreed plan (both in commercial and football terms) I'd expect them to be sacked, but I was explicitly referring to Rodwell and Scott. I excluded Methven. In some ways, Methven is both poacher and gamekeeper here. He found the investors and sold the business plan to them. My assumption is that he put together the strategy for the club and sourced its management. His job will be to keep the investors onside and, if it comes to it, recommend to them that management changes are needed. He'd also then need to find replacements. I'd be very surprised if Methven goes before his investors. 

If, for whatever reason, the current investors do decide they've had enough then they'll look to sell the club on to somebody else. They'll want to do that with the club operating as a successful going concern though in order to maximise price. They'll do what makes sense for them and, remarkably, that will almost always coincide with what's good for the club and its fans.  

In response to webbo 's earlier comment, we really can't have it both ways. Very few of us like the idea that the club is reliant on a wealthy benefactor to fund the losses it incurs to compete at a level it's fans expect. It is remarkably ironic then that whenever an owner suggests that they have an ambition to make the club sustainable, so that it isn't forever dependent owner funding, they are immediately criticised. The Trust have tied themselves in so many knots on this that they make a Cirque de Soleil contortionist look stiff and inflexible in comparison. 

My suggestion is that we give SE7 a little more time before passing judgement on their ownership. Let's vilify them if and when they deserve it. 

[seriouslyred]

Dec 19, 2023 12:39:12 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

Dec 19, 2023 11:43:47 GMT kings hill addick said:

I agree with all of that. I was merely suggesting that the current owners would move the club on and/or just walk away rather than manage it downwards.

I, genuinely, believe that Methven has convinced the new owners that he can, with the new SCMP, achieve success with minimum investment. He might be right, but I fear that we will have to be patient and accept some mediocracy along the way. The impact on the long term fan base could take a hit, too.

I suspect this is correct.

Certainly, from what I have heard, the CAST / CARD lot believe that Methven / Scott / Rodwell have an arm’s length relationship from the foreign investors, and basically have autonomy to run the club as they see fit.

I guess the crunch will come when there is no success on the pitch, and the hitherto disinterested investors start to ask questions about where their money is going.

Methven / Scott / Rodwell have taken a calculated gamble with other people’s money that their bizarre football model can deliver success (ie promotion) before the hands off investor’s original tranche of cash runs out, and they start to ask some searching questions.

Supporters of SE7 Partners like seriouslyred and Mundell have claimed that if CM / AS / JR don’t deliver success they will be gone. The big unknown is what happens then ? Will the hands off foreign investors lose interest like Duchatelet & Sandgaard both eventually did ?

Trusting these blowhards is full of risk.

The crunch always comes when there's no success, or rather no hope of success on the pitch.

Despite the spin, there's a very clear segregation between investors, SMT and football management - for we have at long last entered the 21st Century in this regard.

Imagine sitting down with the SMT last summer (perhaps with a Director from a previous era) and asking: "How are you going to reposition this if you can't secure promotion over two seasons?"

My own answer would be: "We're not going there because we're funding the squad at the appropriate level and will navigate the various bumps in the road on the journey - in other words we will succeed as failure is not an option. For the prize under SCMP in the Championshipis a sustainable £30M turnover"

Therefore, rather than characterise some of us as regime supporters, let's see where we are at the end of February 😉

[AndyAddick]

Dec 13, 2023 20:08:49 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

Dec 13, 2023 19:56:18 GMT kings hill addick said:

I agree with that but I think the wage bill can be a bit of a red herring when large wages are being paid to players that just do not contribute. I’m thinking of Aneke and Kirk, mostly, but we have others that are using up the budget for no contribution.

Charlton are wasting at least £13,000 a week on the wages of Kirk & Aneke combined. It’s literally dead money. They both have to go in January. Give Kirk a free transfer, and pay Aneke up.

Kirk gone , chucks next please , clear the decks & long term recurring sick wards !!

[smudge7946]

Dec 20, 2023 23:16:24 GMT AndyAddick said:

Dec 13, 2023 20:08:49 GMT Occam’s Razor said:

Charlton are wasting at least £13,000 a week on the wages of Kirk & Aneke combined. It’s literally dead money. They both have to go in January. Give Kirk a free transfer, and pay Aneke up.

Kirk gone , chucks next please , clear the decks & long term recurring sick wards !!

Chuks might be too expensive to mutually consent leave the club.

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Dec 21, 2023 9:38:43 GMT smudge7946 said:

Dec 20, 2023 23:16:24 GMT AndyAddick said:

Kirk gone , chucks next please , clear the decks & long term recurring sick wards !!

Chuks might be too expensive to mutually consent leave the club.

Chuks also showed that he had something to offer when he can be wheeled out onto the pitch. Unfortunately, Kirk was just never going to work... Would imagine that we have also used up our 'throwing money away' fund with this.