|
Post by seriouslyred on Jan 13, 2021 3:57:38 GMT
Remember Curbs having a few wobbles and some of his decisions were questionable at the time. Bet most of the fans calling for his head wished he still remained our manager the season after he left! Bowyer seems tied under the same brush except he’s still learning as a as a manager but if you compare him with Robbinson, Slade and even Parkinson to a degree Bowyer has achieved more than them 3 put together. He deserves a season IMO and see where we end up. Two wins from last 11 games, 20 goals conceded in last 10. You win nothing and we are going nowhere with those stats. You can't have a wobble that lasts a quarter of a season almost. Nobody can argue with the form of the last ten, nor the lack of a settled line up but I've posted before the likely outcomes. First off we can bring in EPL U21s AND Famewo / Inniss will be available very soon. Second, what are we looking at realistically? A chance to reach the play-offs and then compete is our best outcome available - a 25% shot at promotion. Sandgaard and Roddy can pull the plug at any time and they have a two year view from what has been said. Perhaps they advise Bowyer or get him some assistance because he is in a difficult place and his post match comment dont make sense any more! Bowyer talks to one chance, one player or one mistake when we all know our issue is the shape of the side. Put Pratley, Famewo and Inniss in tonight as part of the spine, start with Aneke and Schwartz, and have Maatsen/ Miller running the left side and we are looking so much better! Our club has had so much turbulence since Baton 2010 was formed that stability might be the answer for now?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 7:31:12 GMT
...Our club has had so much turbulence since Baton 2010 was formed that stability might be the answer for now? Appreciating the value of stability requires patience.
|
|
|
Post by aaronaldo on Jan 13, 2021 8:21:52 GMT
I don’t think you can ignore the fact the world is going through COVID either. It’s definitely affecting sports and level (or consistency) of performance.
No team seems to really be getting any unstoppable form. Just look how close the premier league is and what teams are in the mix.
It’s strange for everyone and players aren’t immune to it. The lack of crowds is also having a massive factor.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 8:44:24 GMT
If Charlton social media, polls and the forums are anything to go by, Lee Bowyer stilll has the support of 70-80% of our fanbase. He’s built up plenty of credit in the bank these last 3 seasons.
Dispensing with his services now would be a huge gamble by Sandgaard & Roddy, and both don’t strike me as the gambling types.
Who could step in at such short notice, with the games coming thick and fast, and basically have a new pre season in mid season with these players ?
Talk of unproven foreign managers is football suicide.
On balance the fanbase is better getting behind LB and hoping we get Shinnie, Famewo and Inniss back ASAP.
|
|
|
Post by fatscholes on Jan 13, 2021 9:15:26 GMT
Positives from Tuesday night * Aneke completed 90 minutes.....interesting we recently changed our medical staff * Schwartz looks like an experienced striker who will not only score goals but more importantly communicate with the team on the pitch * Williams looked more involved in the game, trying to influence our forward play than any other game this season. * JFC & Morgan showed more movement off the ball, with more aggression on closing play down in the 2nd half * Deji seemed to take control of the back 4 in the 2nd half, which plays well for the 2nd half of the season * 1 thru 11 we looked so much more comfortable playing 4-4-2 in the 2nd half * The players lifted themselves 2nd half, without a crowd, to a better performance * It's another game closer to having Famewo, Inniss, Watson & Pratley back. We miss our first choice centre half pairing both in defence but also as attacking threats from set pieces. In addition, we miss the bite in midfield that Pratley & Watson provide either as starters or as finishers to a game.
Development points from the game * Playing a more attacking side for 45 mins needed our experienced players such as Gunter to help & cover. I didn't see that happen on 3 of the 4 goals; not closing the space or player down. Note that when the team was announced most reactions were positive. Our experienced players need to step up * I think that Gilbey & JFC want to play the same position & as such we get neither doing a full midfield job. Both want to pick the ball up deep & neither seem to make a run forward off the ball. As a result, both look ineffective. No coincidence that Morgan forward movement & JFC sitting more made us more solid in the 2nd half
I after stability at this club. That is in ownership, managerial, coaching, medical, players & support structure. For too long we have had a duck & dive moving 20 players out at the end of a season & bringing less in. We MUST be realistic & enjoy the fact that we have a football club, we have a sensible owner, we have a young, passionate manager still learning the job, we have a squad that can compete when all are fit.
I cannot wait to get back to watching football at the ground....Win, Lose or Draw! Watching football when I can see my empty seat every home game is horrible & every game looks like a training session. Just think what the crowd would have been like after that 3rd or even 4th Charlton goal last night!
Bowyer In, Jackson In, Gallen In, Marshall In #TrustTheProcess
|
|
|
Post by scabbyhorse on Jan 13, 2021 9:22:34 GMT
If Charlton social media, polls and the forums are anything to go by, Lee Bowyer stilll has the support of 70-80% of our fanbase. He’s built up plenty of credit in the bank these last 3 seasons. Dispensing with his services now would be a huge gamble by Sandgaard & Roddy, and both don’t strike me as the gambling types. Who could step in at such short notice, with the games coming thick and fast, and basically have a new pre season in mid season with these players ? Talk of unproven foreign managers is football suicide. On balance the fanbase is better getting behind LB and hoping we get Shinnie, Famewo and Inniss back ASAP. Curbs until june , it's a win win imo. Will appease the give the Bowyer a chance brigade and imo give the squad a massive boost. Smyth at rb 😆🤣😂😹😆🤣😂😹😆🤣😂😹😆
|
|
|
Post by fatscholes on Jan 13, 2021 9:31:10 GMT
I wonder why people hold onto this Curbs baton so much. He was a fantastic part of our history but he has not managed a football club for 12 years. He also stated last night that 3 of the 4 goals were wonder goals. Also lets not forget that the first few years of management were not great & that was with a stable club backing him. Its all about patience. Some fans will have it already....some will learn that is what it is to be a Charlton fan, & some will never understand.
Curbishley first seasons in Management Season Division Position 1991–92 Div 2 7th 1992–93 Div 1 12th 1993–94 Div 1 11th 1994–95 Div 1 15th 1995–96 Div 1 6th 1996–97 Div 1 15th 1997–98 Div 1 4th Play Off Win
|
|
|
Post by kings hill addick on Jan 13, 2021 9:53:43 GMT
He's on Valley Pass talking about showing character after last Saturday's game. Err...It was Friday night Lee!! Oh, well, that’s it. He must go now! Such a monumental disaster. He will be lucky to escape prison with that sort of faux pas.
|
|
|
Post by aaronaldo on Jan 13, 2021 10:23:05 GMT
Just going to leave this here
|
|
|
Post by scabbyhorse on Jan 13, 2021 10:26:19 GMT
I don't think anyone doesn't want him to succeed, I just have major doubts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 10:49:06 GMT
I don't think anyone doesn't want him to succeed, I just have major doubts. Even Bowyer's most vociferous admirers on social media have doubts. But ....You also should put a premium on loyalty and personal integrity. It is a fact that a Championship club offered him a seven figure package to join them as manager this summer, and he chose to stick with us at a time when we had a pair of crooks looting the club. I think we had about 8 players on the books at the time. We are going through a rough patch, but you can't deny the integrity and loyalty of Bowyer. It is worth repaying IMO.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 11:09:36 GMT
Thomas SAndgaard is not about to sack Lee Bowyer, so calling for his head is futile. Last night he realised his mistakes and rectified them. Let's hope that this is a pivotal moment, I've a feeling it is.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 11:19:19 GMT
But Bowyer changed the formation too late. It was obvious to me watching, that it wasn't working from the first goal but he didn't change it until after the third goal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 11:23:12 GMT
The problem is he is repeating the errors. We started badly against Wimbledon, and he changed the team at half time to try and recover and we overrn them. Everyone thought he would acknowlege his break in stumbling onto a crowd pleasing, goal scoring line up, but he went straight back into his weird starting set ups next game, and we haven't won since. I agree that Sandgaard doesn't look like sacking him, and indeed seems to have promised more players, which is all to the good. But someone needs to take Lee aside and explain forcefully that these experiments in countering the opposition by setting up players out of position is doing tremendous damage and needs to stop now. Last night was winnable, but we gave them a head start and didn't manage to claw it back. In the absence of a new manager, we badly need Bowyer to play the best palyers in their correct positions, and start trying to cause the opposition to counter our attacking threat, not the reverse. And drop Gilbey for a bit - whatever he is supposed to be doing isn't happening, and everyone saw it a lot earlier than Bows last night.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 11:28:44 GMT
But Bowyer changed the formation too late. It was obvious to me watching, that it wasn't working from the first goal but he didn't change it until after the third goal. What would a new manager at this stage of the season achieve ? He would still have to work with the same players, due to the wage cap. He would also need weeks (that we can’t afford) to assess their strengths & weaknesses. There is also the question of who is available. Despite the blip we have a very realistic chance of promotion if we get our three key injured players back. I agree that patience will be tested if the likes of Gilbey & Watson keep getting more chances.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 11:38:33 GMT
But Bowyer changed the formation too late. It was obvious to me watching, that it wasn't working from the first goal but he didn't change it until after the third goal. What would a new manager at this stage of the season achieve ? He would still have to work with the same players, due to the wage cap. He would also need weeks (that we can’t afford) to assess their strengths & weaknesses. There is also the question of who is available. Despite the blip we have a very realistic chance of promotion if we get our three key injured players back. I agree that patience will be tested if the likes of Gilbey & Watson keep getting more chances. The sign of a good manager is not to keep on making the same mistakes. Bowyer keeps on making the same mistakes. The constant tinkering with the team is insane. At least he has admitted he got it wrong and let us hope he resists the temptation to put players like Smyth at right wing back again. We should be doing a lot better with the players we have got. Good to see you posting on here Nick as you have criticised me in the past for doing the same thing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 11:54:56 GMT
But Bowyer changed the formation too late. It was obvious to me watching, that it wasn't working from the first goal but he didn't change it until after the third goal. The next game will tell us a lot about whether we carry on from the second half or revert to the first half.
|
|
|
Post by scabbyhorse on Jan 13, 2021 12:18:12 GMT
Please rule out the loyalty stuff , I know that Bowyer would not move to another club Unless They were in London. Doesn't want to up sticks from the family home with kids being still too young. Mrs Bowyer wouldn't be to pleased.
Charlton were and are a perfect location for him.
|
|
|
Post by Mundell on Jan 13, 2021 12:53:05 GMT
What was most obvious last night was that we have much better players than Rochdale do and a much, much deeper squad. Our side last night was comprised of experienced players, many of whom have played in the Championship, and very promising youngsters such as Maatsen and Millar. We had the luxury of leaving Matthews, Washington, Schwartz and Purrington on the bench. I haven't mentioned Bogle, but I'm sure he'd start regularly for Rochdale. Rochdale's side, by contrast, was, for the most part, full of waifs, strays and kids.
Bowyer will also shortly have Watson, Pratley, Famewo and even Innis available. I'm not sure about Maddison. Its really very hard to over state the extent of the huge gulf in resources between us and clubs like Rochdale, Wimbledon, Accrington and many others in League One, and hence in the quality of players we have available and in the depth of our squad. We should be capable of dominating most teams.
The point is that Lee Bowyer should be under pressure. Expectations ought to be high. A place in the top six ought to be expected, not simply hoped for if we get lucky with injuries. I'd be very surprised if this isn't Thomas Sandgaard's mindset. That doesn't mean he's going to sack Bowyer, but I'm sure it means he'll be asking himself some tough questions. Does Bowyer know who he wants to play where and what he wants his players to do, beyond 'working hard and getting stuck in'?
Even more importantly, like most of us, he'll be wondering whether the players know what the manager wants them to do. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but last night's decision, against a side that seemed unlikely to cause us problems, to play Smyth at right wing back and leave Matthews on the bench, smacked more of an almost random attempt to 'improve' things than a thoughtful move that just didn't work out on the night. I wonder what the players make of stuff like this?
I've no idea what's going to happen next, but I'm sure this is Bowyer's biggest test in management so far, by an order of magnitude. It should be too. So far, he's either enjoyed the dream combination of a big budget and a very strong squad with very low expectations, or a weak squad, but with enough excuses to last several seasons. He now has no excuses if he fails to deliver.
|
|
|
Post by smudge7946 on Jan 13, 2021 15:24:05 GMT
Bowyer is learning and developing. He is the right man.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 17:10:19 GMT
Bowyer is learning and developing. He is the right man. But that is exactly it ,he is not learning. Makes the same bloody mistakes week in week out
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 17:24:50 GMT
Bowyer is learning and developing. He is the right man. But that is exactly it ,he is not learning. Makes the same bloody mistakes week in week out He corrected his mistakes last night, and admitted he was wrong to play Smyth as w/b. He hasn't really had to make the selection decisions before, when the squad was smaller and players were injured. He's still a relative rookie manager.
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Jan 13, 2021 17:28:10 GMT
Corrected his mistakes or not it cost us the game. We can't expect to experiment for the first half and win the game in the second.
Rookie manager is bollocks, sorry, sick of the lame excuses for him. Charlton fans who blow smoke up his arse will label him a rookie until he wins something.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 17:44:14 GMT
Corrected his mistakes or not it cost us the game. We can't expect to experiment for the first half and win the game in the second. Rookie manager is bollocks, sorry, sick of the lame excuses for him. Charlton fans who blow smoke up his arse will label him a rookie until he wins something. He also admitted to playing Millar in the wrong position. A great improvement from naming and shaming players. I thought he'd lost them, but he may have got them back.
|
|
|
Post by twostroke on Jan 13, 2021 18:36:03 GMT
People are quick to forget that Bowyer oversaw our relegation last season. As we slid down the table he kept parroting 'we'll be fine' 'there's plenty of games' and we ended up needing to win at Leeds, on the last day. Which didn't go well. He is a man of low education, he cannot learn. He will drag us into a relegation battle again.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 9:37:51 GMT
People are quick to forget that Bowyer oversaw our relegation last season. As we slid down the table he kept parroting 'we'll be fine' 'there's plenty of games' and we ended up needing to win at Leeds, on the last day. Which didn't go well. He is a man of low education, he cannot learn. He will drag us into a relegation battle again. Another manager who oversaw a relegation was a certain Alan Curbishley.
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Jan 14, 2021 10:27:54 GMT
Curbs would get more out of the squad than Bowyer is doing. He wouldn't even need a refresher or a game or two, the improvement would be immediate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 10:37:25 GMT
Curbs would get more out of the squad than Bowyer is doing. He wouldn't even need a refresher or a game or two, the improvement would be immediate. I spoke to Curbs a few years ago when he was the VIP guest opening a new local betting shop. Thoroughly decent guy with no airs & graces. He told me he had no wish to return to day to day football (he actually chuckled). I believe he made a nice few quid out of his successful Court case against West Ham.
|
|
|
Post by canterburyaddick on Jan 14, 2021 18:31:45 GMT
Curbs would get more out of the squad than Bowyer is doing. He wouldn't even need a refresher or a game or two, the improvement would be immediate. I spoke to Curbs a few years ago when he was the VIP guest opening a new local betting shop. Thoroughly decent guy with no airs & graces. He told me he had no wish to return to day to day football (he actually chuckled). I believe he made a nice few quid out of his successful Court case against West Ham. And a nice steady line in punditry and personal appearances to top it up without the hassle. I would love LB to prove the doubters wrong and I don't really think there is any pressure from TS at the moment. But he needs to decide on his top eleven.
|
|
|
Post by mersthamred on Jan 14, 2021 19:16:24 GMT
I would hate Curbs to come back and then get a load abuse when things go wrong.
I expect Lee to be here to the end of the season and am sure he can turn it around...but he needs proper central defenders.
|
|