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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 2, 2008 10:44:03 GMT
I know this thread will be seen by some as critical or controversial but I can assure you that it is not intended to be that way. Others will say the transfer market is slow at the moment nobody is really buying. My answer to that is I am not interested in what other clubs are doing.
My point is this: Alan Pardew clearly said at the end of last season that we will steal a march on other clubs in the transfer market yet all we have signed is Hudson on a free and a striker who I do not expect to be involved that much.
What he said basically isn't happening and with just over 5 weeks to go until the start of the season, much less than that if you take into consideration the friendlies which are used for match fitness and team building can we again expect the next statement by him to be along the lines of what we heard last season when we made a bad start which was "Players need time to gel"?
The players are back in training, the gelling time has therefore started, the buying of new players hasn't and don't forget any new player will have to move to the area buy a house and settle down in the short time that there is left too so we are not leaving ourselves with much time to manouvre.
I expect some posters to say how do I know that we haven't made any moves or we don't have players waiting to be announced. I don't know that obviously but with all the red tape involved in football transfers these days, that is delay enough without having the added problem of only being able to operate within a small buget meaning so much time lost on waiting for the right player to come available at a certain price.
The truth is we are in a situation where careless spending in the past has restricted what we can buy in the future starting now and im afraid it's showing.
Thoughts.
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Post by bexleyboy on Jul 2, 2008 11:05:23 GMT
Agree
but it's not just this season it happened under Curbs as well .....i heard that Richard Murray won't sign anyone till pre season starts because he does not want to start paying a player while he is on holiday.....
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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 2, 2008 11:12:16 GMT
I thought the pre-season had started.
If it's true about Mr Murray it;'s a shame he did'nt think of that last season when there were still 10 games to go ;D
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Post by ExeterAddick on Jul 2, 2008 14:42:26 GMT
"My answer to that is I am not interested in what other clubs are doing"
Whilst i see where you are coming from Reams, it is of some relevence what other clubs are doing. Clubs are unlikely to sell any player, particularly their better ones, unless they have secured a replacement. If we're keen to sign players like, for example, Owen Garvan, Ipswich would be mad not to find his replacement before letting him go.
Furthermore, whilst we might not be looking at specific players from Euro 2008, premier league managers almost certainly will have been. This pushes the whole transfer merry-go-round back a couple of weeks.
Last season also taught me that we shouldn't be peturbed by a lack of rumours or activity. The signings of Varney, Iwelumo, Zheng and Racon in particular came almost out of nowhere.
However, Pardew was stupid to come out with a comment about "stealing a march on clubs" if he wasnt 100% sure that we would do.
In an ideal world we would have the whole squad sorted before pre-season training began, but in reality this rarely happens to any club. It wouldn't suprise me to see our last signing arrive close to deadline day, well after the season has started.
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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 2, 2008 15:20:59 GMT
I see your point Exeteraddick but if this is the case and I hear or read any more bollox about the new players need time to gel just like we did last season I'll pull my bloody hair out.
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Post by ExeterAddick on Jul 2, 2008 16:43:20 GMT
yep, i think that excuse is well past its sell-by-date now. I could accept it last season as we had about 8 new players in the starting XI, but any wholesale changes this season are entirely down to Pardew.
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Post by valleyviper on Jul 2, 2008 19:13:29 GMT
Reams, bexley and Exeter, agree whole heartedly with comments above, the one suprise is that Reams still has any hair to pull out after the summer recess we are enduring.
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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 2, 2008 19:42:52 GMT
Still a bit left Vv but not much I reckon I'll be as bald as a coot come September ;D Pardew does Grecian 2000 but sends the rest of us bald  |
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Post by bingaddick on Jul 2, 2008 19:58:59 GMT
Agree but it's not just this season it happened under Curbs as well .....i heard that Richard Murray won't sign anyone till pre season starts because he does not want to start paying a player while he is on holiday..... I think its right as a general rule and makes sound business sense especially when money is tight. That said, there are always exceptions. E.g Herminator who was purchased before the end of the previous season when he was inelligible. Darren Bent was signed early I remember. As for the general thrust of this thread, I think that Pards had in mind the sort of players he wanted before the end of last season but that was before the budget for players was announced, so whoever was on his wish list then may not have survived the bottom line. Pards knows now that the club needs to shed more players than it is going to sign and that suggests that the club needs to recoup more than it is going to spend. I think that they expected Marcus Bent to go to Wigan - that would have raised a millon or two and they hoped to offload Faye to some mug team. Neither have happened and that is probably holding things up. If you were Pardew you will have probably two targets for each place you want to fill, one slightly better/costing more than the other. If you wanted your No 1 target but hadn't got enough cash, you'd probably hold out and hope the cash would be raised. It's all speculation as we don't know what is happening. Reams you and some others maybe rightly criticise Pardew for his statement which seems to have been a little rash, that's fine. What you impute though is that somehow they are not trying hard to improve the squad, I do not think that is fair. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 2, 2008 21:04:30 GMT
I can see your point 100% bing written in an excellent post but unfortunately everything that Pardew says these days is rash and not thought out, it's almost like he is on the back foot and when put into a corner he says the first thing that enters his head.
Today was another example: He stated that having Toddy back is like signing a third player in the summer. Don't get me wrong having him back will be a god send but keeping on the subject, that surely means that we have got two more strikers next season!! with no signs of releasing any of them.
Hudson has come in, a good solid signing but Paddy's gone so we are no better off in numbers at the back where I think we are as weak as we are in midfield.
Franck Quedrue will face the Birmingham door next week for not reporting back to training in time so using my forward thinking im saying why not monitor the situation and get ready to make a move, why always leave it until the for sale sign applies to everybody?
He also said today that we could play a league game in 10 days as far as fitness goes but there is tactical moves to still work on.
Tactically we were naive all season last year so that department has to be worked on thoroughly, fitness doesn't win you games on it's own.
As for the midfield, unless it has a major overhaul sometime very soon we are going to struggle and what worries me is he just cannot see it as he still thinks that Ambrose, Holland and Thomas are Premiership players having played there two years ago.
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Post by bingaddick on Jul 2, 2008 22:07:59 GMT
I can see your point 100% bing written in an excellent post but unfortunately everything that Pardew says these days is rash and not thought out, it's almost like he is on the back foot and when put into a corner he says the first thing that enters his head. I think you have a good point about him shooting from the hip. I think he wears his heart on his sleeve a bit too much and perhaps needs time for mature reflection. Pardew is under real pressure to achieve this season and his natural inclination to be positive has interacted with the insecurity of his position to create gibberish. Be critical if you want but it is a pressure job and it's sometimes harder to get the message right when your feeling it. He also said today that we could play a league game in 10 days as far as fitness goes but there is tactical moves to still work on. Tactically we were naive all season last year so that department has to be worked on thoroughly, fitness doesn't win you games on it's own. I haven't read this quote in full but it sounds to me that he was trying to sound upbeat and actually what you have quoted seems quite good to me. As I understand it, the players came in for fitness work during the break so they have clearly hit the ground running as regards physical conditioning. The good thing about that is they can concentrate now much more on the tactical side because they haven't got to devote as much of the training to fitness as in previous seasons. |
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Post by bingaddick on Jul 2, 2008 22:41:42 GMT
One thing about the team this season is that there are "new players" available to Pards. It depends on your point of view but the following could fit that description:
1. Tody - Played a handful of games last season then got injured
2. Gray - Hadn't settled last season hardly started a game then was replaced by Lita
3. Dickson - out on loan then made a couple of appearances as sub and looked sharp then injured
4. Racon - Very few opportunities but looked good when he played
5. Moo2 - kept being replaced by loanees and didn't get a run in the team
6. Shelvey - Couple of starts at the end of the season - one for the future
7. Waggy - a couple of sub appearances only
8. McLeod - Really didn't get much of a look in although worked well with Varney for a few games in January.
9. Youga - out on loan until January then handful of appearances in January/Feb then injured
10. Basey - handful of appearances in November then injured.
Ok so I'm stretching things somewhat but much of last season, these players were either injured, out on loan or out of favour. It is possible to make out cases for them to be in the team come the start of the season.
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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 2, 2008 22:44:24 GMT
Maybe Pards is too much of an understanding man when sometimes you have just got to go to the chairman and say:
"Look I know money's tight but we all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet.
"If we want to go up, I need the cash to bring in the players who will do the job as we were not good enough last season and a majority of my players will never be good enough which I take responsibility for.
" Give me the money and this time I will deliver"
If he did that and not come across as he's prepared to take all the drawbacks thrown his may then he may well be the man to achieve.
The sooner he remembers that he has a back bone the sooner the players might start using theirs bing.
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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 2, 2008 22:56:46 GMT
I admire your enthusiasm but if you added a goalkeeper to that list and was told that would be the team what would you think?
Here is my opinion on them.
1. Tody - Make or break season for him but glad he's back
2. Gray - His goals late last season may prove the catalyst to a good season this time around
3. Dickson - He'll never make it at this level
4. Racon - He will be sold
5. Moo2 - Kicked in the teeth last season and had his progreess hampered by Pardews loans, Mills and Halford, but for that his game and confidence would have materialised the way it should have done after a year. The jury is out.
6. Shelvey - Couple of starts at the end of the season - one for the future I agree
7. Waggy - Same as Dickson
8. McLeod - A terrible purchase, once fit he will be sold
9. Youga - Unreliable, good going forward but can't defend also he is always liable to pick up cards
10. Basey - Improvement in him but we need more experience.
General thoughts are that we can afford other sides to have a better player or two than what we have got but looking at that list there are far too many and there are others who are not on it who imho can offer us no more than what they have got which is unfortunately not enough.
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Post by bingaddick on Jul 3, 2008 7:10:28 GMT
Maybe Pards is too much of an understanding man when sometimes you have just got to go to the chairman and say: "Look I know money's tight but we all need to be singing from the same hymm sheet. "If we want to go up, I need the cash to bring in the players who will do the job as we were not good enough last season and a majority of my players will never be good enough which I take responsibility for. " Give me the money and this time I will deliver" If he did that and not come across as he's prepared to take all the drawbacks thrown his may then he may well be the man to achieve. The sooner he remembers that he has a back bone the sooner the players might start using theirs bing. There are three things I will say about Pards/the club and the lack of signings 1. I agree that generally managers need to push as hard as they can to secure the finances. Maybe Pards is too much of a patsy, to be honest with you it's difficult to say? The few comments that have filtered my way from inside the club is that he is seen as being arrogant. Arrogance in my experience usually generates the following statement "pride cometh before a fall". I think we had some of that last season. Breezy self-confident statements about the strength of the squad and outward faith in his abilities - he'd done it before etc etc. Then it all went tits up. This leads me to the conclusion that whatever kudos/brownie points etc that he started with bolstered by his self-confidence ain't going to cut it any more with Murray and Co. That doesn't mean they don't support him, what it does mean is they wont be led so easily to part with their money. 2. Murray and Co were used to Curbs and his frugal use of the clubs money. Dowie was the type of manager you feel Pards needs to be - pulling out of the Board more money than was in the budget. They got their fingers well and truly burned and the ain't going to allow that to happen again - hence the sell first caution. 3. Since the end of last season the credit crunch has hit home making it even more difficult for the club to manage it's debts and maybe resulting in less to spend than Pards thought he was getting. I don't know where the truth lies any more than you. I am by nature prepared to give people the benefit of the doubt, sometimes to my cost but that's what I'm like and I live within that. I am not 100% convinced by Pards and my best mate who is a Hamsters fan is very critical of him, his player selection and tactics. What is clear is that he will be there for the season for good or bad and I've no doubt he'll be trying his best to make it happen. |
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Post by bingaddick on Jul 3, 2008 7:24:55 GMT
I admire your enthusiasm but if you added a goalkeeper to that list and was told that would be the team what would you think? Here is my opinion on them. 1. Tody - Make or break season for him but glad he's back 2. Gray - His goals late last season may prove the catalyst to a good season this time around 3. Dickson - He'll never make it at this level 4. Racon - He will be sold 5. Moo2 - Kicked in the teeth last season and had his progreess hampered by Pardews loans, Mills and Halford, but for that his game and confidence would have materialised the way it should have done after a year. The jury is out. 6. Shelvey - Couple of starts at the end of the season - one for the future I agree 7. Waggy - Same as Dickson 8. McLeod - A terrible purchase, once fit he will be sold 9. Youga - Unreliable, good going forward but can't defend also he is always liable to pick up cards 10. Basey - Improvement in him but we need more experience. Well I was just putting a "Pards like" spin on some of them. I don't think we differ too much in reality. As regards one or two of your comments 1. Dickson - I wouldn't be quite so dismissive although the chances of him making the grade are less than 50%. I'm no scout but I look at character and personality and he got bags of it. He missed his chance as a lad and I guarantee you he will be the best learner and hardest worker in training. He also has instinctive goal sense. I saw him at West Brom in the cup last season come on and completely changed the game and all but won it for us. 2. McLeod - Looked unable to hit the proverbial barn door and may well be out of his depth. What he did show when he had a chance in January was pace and he and Varney together looked a real handful for a few games before Pards bottled it, signed Gray and then Sulker Lita |
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Post by valleyviper on Jul 3, 2008 7:37:10 GMT
The only point I wish to make on the Club's transfer situation is that we must not spend what The Board have budgeted for, pulling excess funds (doing a Dowie) could put us in the same situation as LEEDS UNITED, overspending could cause our demise and we too could plummet down the leagues. We, as Fans must The Board even if we don't fully trust Pardew.
A scenario from which recovery may take 10 years or even longer, Leeds Utd missed promotion last season and although favourites for 2008/09 it is not signed on that certaintity that promotion next May is guaranteed.
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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 3, 2008 10:36:21 GMT
I agree with both your comments but don't forget that there is a hidden danger in there guys which is if we don't buy and strengthen alot of teams will improve past us which could see us fall lower and lower down the table as each season goes by until the time comes that we are amongst the relegation candidates.
The team we have at present may well look as fit as a fiddle as we are lead to believe but fitness does not make up for a gaping lack of quality which is all to apparant in our squad.
It's not a negative outloook im making it's common sense guys because if this squad was only able to finish 11th last season I just don't see how it can improve over the summer and finish higher this time around, you cannot get blood out of a stone, a majority of our players have no improvement in them im sorry to say and I certainly don't buy the belief that we will do better this year because the players have now had a season to gel through playing together because how could they when we used 37 players last year, that is over 3 teams meaning alot of them didn't play alongside certain players regularly.
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Post by bingaddick on Jul 3, 2008 11:01:57 GMT
It's not a negative outloook im making it's common sense guys because if this squad was only able to finish 11th last season I just don't see how it can improve over the summer and finish higher this time around, you cannot get blood out of a stone, a majority of our players have no improvement in them im sorry to say and I certainly don't buy the belief that we will do better this year because the players have now had a season to gel through playing together because how could they when we used 37 players last year, that is over 3 teams meaning alot of them didn't play alongside certain players regularly. You don't set a great deal of store in coaching then Reams?  I think you are arguing against yourself mate. On the one hand you are saying that the players performances can't be improved, on the other hand you're saying that they didn't gel because they didn't play enough together. I think your view is too bleak. I remember players like John Robinson who looked decidedly average when he was signed but due to good coaching by Les Reed and others improved greatly. I look back to Kinsella who had some talent but didn't look all that great when he joined (indeed there was some doubt over whether we would sign him at all). I remember perhaps the most improved player in Charlton shirt that I saw - Steve Gritt who looked no more than an average squad player with limited ability when he first played for us yet ended up with a long career which saw him play at the highest level. Coaching can make a difference. There is no doubt in my mind that all the chopping and changing that went on last season both in team selection and also in tactics and formation did not help to build performance consistancy. You have only got to look at how poorly great players like Gerrard and Lampard can perform for England versus their club form to see that there is more to good performances than just technical ability. Having a clear plan and carrying it out counts for a great deal. You also need players who can make the right decisions when on the pitch. I think that our strikers weren't confident enough to make the right choices because the team was not playing with enough confidence. To me the quality most required by team managers is to get players playing confidently. Pards can do this, he's done it before and there is no reason why he can't do it again. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 3, 2008 11:40:39 GMT
Im a fully qualified coach myself and let me tell you coaching players isn't like it used to be these days it's all about technical ability rather than individual talent.
For instance I see so many teams these days who have players who are effective without the ball as they are with it. How many players can we say we have got with that ability? Not many as a lack of movement and anticipation cost us last season and I'll use your West Brom example here because when Brunt had tha ball on the left there was only one place it was going and who was marking Gera? Powell, and I believe it happened again soon after.
That is called tactical awareness which we are devoid of.
If Pardew rang me now and said come and coach for a week do you think I could improve the elder statesmen of Weaver, Gray, Iwelumo and Holland? I would say no because you cannot beat experience but could I improve them technically? Id say yes.
Mark Kinsella I would say is our best coach and should be promoted to assistant manager because as I have said before I just cannot see what Parkinson brings to the table.
Coaching in my book can only be beneficial if you have positional coaches, defensive, midfield and forwards, I believe that we still have a goalkeeping coach so why not extend this to other areas of the field, that way the different groups go away to a corner of the pitch and work on things.
I have witnessed coaches ref/oversee a game and blow their whistle when let's say the right winger chooses the wrong option so he pulls him back and demonstrates out loud in front of the other 21 players what he should have done. One of the other 21 players is the left back so all the time he's listening to the instructions that the coach is giving to the winger basically thinking to himself well this is easy because I know what he is going to do next.
So from that example who would you say has been coached the most? the full back off course ;D
Too much of that goes on these days which is all the more reason to have positional coaches.
By the way Gritty improved because his coach would have been my old man ;D ;D
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Post by bingaddick on Jul 3, 2008 11:57:56 GMT
By the way Gritty improved because his coach would have been my old man ;D ;D I guessed that was the case, I thought I'd use the most compelling example. Actually this is a really interesting debate - I hope we are not boring your many other admirers. ;D ;D I heard Brooking banging on about how little chance kids have today to hone their skills in parks and streets like in the old days. Just practising keeping the ball, balance and co-ordination. His suggestion which has not been taken up by the professional game is that the best coaches are required to at aged 8 and above. There is an FA plan to supply coaches for these age groups funded centrally to all professional clubs. So far the leagues have not taken this up. Brookings view is that once players have developed the basics at that age, then coaches can teach them about decision making on the pitch in terms of releasing the ball forward at the optimum moment, not running out of options and then lumping it forward. By implication they can also be taught about angles and running off the ball. Unfortunately the politics of football in this country is frustrating him. (Frankly if I was him I'd resign and lead a campaign from the sidelines to change hearts and minds). |
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Post by reamsofverse on Jul 3, 2008 12:15:29 GMT
I couldn't agree more and I am indebted to Mr Brooking for not releasing the source of his ideas ;D ;D
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