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Post by geronimo on Sept 24, 2024 16:21:28 GMT
We lose one game and the usual crap comes out .. why are these new breed of supporters sitting there waiting for us to slip up then suddenly bang they come to life don’t hear anything from them when we win .. It’s called football you win you lose you draw it’s never changed .. not even Man City win every game .. get a life enjoy our great club finally moving forward in the right direction , trouble is again that everyone wants it to happen now it might not we might be in this league another season or even two but at least we can talk about promotion after 14/15 years of neglect .. finally we have owners who invested lots of money in the structure and teams on the pitch .. but hate to tell you this not going to happen overnight |
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Post by geronimo on Sept 24, 2024 16:45:23 GMT
We lose one game and the usual crap comes out .. why are these new breed of supporters sitting there waiting for us to slip up then suddenly bang they come to life don’t hear anything from them when we win .. It’s called football you win you lose you draw it’s never changed .. not even Man City win every game .. get a life enjoy our great club finally moving forward in the right direction , trouble is again that everyone wants it to happen now it might not we might be in this league another season or even two but at least we can talk about promotion after 14/15 years of neglect .. finally we have owners who invested lots of money in the structure and teams on the pitch .. but hate to tell you this not going to happen overnight Saying "get a life to" to people whose opinion and turn of phrase you don't like is not helpful. As Paul Mortimer once said after being booed off years ago ; They pay there money they are entitled to boo. This was after Morts was substituted for playing his worst game ever. Also saying it is younger new breed is just not true. I have endured nearl70 years of this club saying it is a sleeping giant that needs to be woken up. We have had light interludes of success, even 11 or 12 years in the top flight. However we always end up in the 3rd tier. And lately over the last 5 or 6 years I have to say the football hasn't been enjoyable. In fact it has been plain boring. I find that I am wishing I wasn't there or reading the programmeor fiddle with the phone. Games lack excitement now. The atmosphere is okish but excitement ? Nope. I have been going because of the pub and friends but beer at nearly £6 a pint isn't attractive. So if the football is unattractive and lacking any flair what is there to do but show disapproval or stay away. So Bexley Boy, I will show disapproval until we have some excitement to go with what seems a decent defence. If you find your self alone in a cheerless Valley one day you can ponder on why that is. |
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Post by seriouslyred on Sept 24, 2024 16:48:28 GMT
On the one hand BB is correct in that criticism surfaces after each defeat. However, the criticism is based upon observing the games, especially first XI selection and the overly defensive way our midfield plays. We simply aren't creating enough chances in open play - the question is whether Nathan Jones is able to address this challenge over the coming weeks and months? The beauty of message boards is that fans can react and post during and after the game. Then later on in the week reflect upon direction plus chances of success. I'd say that we still have decent chances of making the play-offs. These might vapourise over the next couple of months OR Leaburn and Edwards availability plus a fresh approach might see us start winning again? You commented on a previous post that we had a top 4 budget…..others have posted stating we have a top 6 budget…….question though is can we really honestly see ourselves as a top 6 team come next May based on the summer recruitment and our first 7 games……🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 It's definitely a top six budget as it has been for every season at this level. Before talking about May and 46 games, surely the question is where might we be after 23? We require 24 points from 16 games to make it to 6th place and 37 points. IF we can do that then we're a contender again after years in mid-table. The question then falls to how we might do that. Is it tactics, player selection and development or something else that helps deliver a win every other game? |
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Post by geronimo on Sept 24, 2024 16:50:31 GMT
I just hit on this thread while searching for a place to put the news that the Australian national team (the Socceroos) have just announced their new manager .The ex Palarse, CB legend,Tony Popovich, after Graham Arnold resigned last week. I said that he was currently the manager of Melbourne Victory, but that job is currently held by ex Leeds RB, Paddy Kisnorbo.Popa was without a club so perhaps he was waiting in the wings,Just a thought. Reams has written a very honest thread here, All very franc and true albeit not so positive and enlightening.Unfortunately for those that have followed the Robins/Addicks for years, its a frustrating, almost heart breaking story. Simplistically put,we sell our best players, to make a quid, and buy in players, on the cheap, hopeing that the system clicks .There has been no ambitious ownwers post war ,and it shows. I would put the, Curbs period in the old div one, as pure luck. Not to take away the guidance of Curbishly.A serious Charlton legend, with tallent to boot. But alas. it was such a too brief, period.I believe he made a 'star team' ,instead of a 'team of stars'Got them to give 100% for the shirt. I doubt if there was anyone worth over a couple of million, pounds,in the whole team Now it is back to our owners, and what they are here for. Being synical, i feel that they want their tax returns in negative for their own benefit. We just dont seem to get anyone who has the club at heart and invest in players.It has come to the point where we languish in the depths of the English league, We have clubs like Bournemouth, Brentford, and dare i say it Palarse, in the EPL. No disrespect to em. Good luck to em, but as an Addick it hurts Darren Bent was sold for 10-16 million. |
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Post by chertseyaddick on Sept 30, 2024 15:26:55 GMT
NJ has brought in at least ten players to improve on what was already here. He has played vastly different sides and changed formations for our last two losses. We are playing unattractive football.
I dont believe in our recent churn of managers, so we need him to have another window and see the season out. But he doesn't know his best side, even though he signed most of them. Top six or he's done
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Post by seriouslyred on Oct 6, 2024 22:32:53 GMT
Bump!
In light of the change of formation, approach and a 1-0 win vs the best side in League One, we now have a chance to reappraise.
What do we now think of our chances of top six at the half way mark? We've played our first ten games securing a respectable 16 points, and our defense is a vast improvement on last season.
But...
Over to the rest of you.
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Post by canterburyaddick on Oct 6, 2024 23:20:25 GMT
Bump! In light of the change of formation, approach and a 1-0 win vs the best side in League One, we now have a chance to reappraise. What do we now think of our chances of top six at the half way mark? We've played our first ten games securing a respectable 16 points, and our defense is a vast improvement on last season. But... Over to the rest of you. Until our recent drop in form we were keeping goals out but not scoring much at the other end. So we know that subject to injuries etc one end is OK. Unfortunately for all his hard work Ihadame was not going to get many goals, Godden seems a marked improvement and actually seems to be a dangerous striker always getting in decent positions and the ability to finish. With ML coming online and Chuks doing his regular 20 odd minutes, maybe we can threaten the playoffs. One thing is certain - that performance on Saturday needs to be repeated every match, I'm sure we can agree on that. |
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Post by scabbyhorse on Oct 7, 2024 4:41:05 GMT
The recent win over Birmingham has left everyone thrilled, particularly given the league leaders’ reputation and the team’s overall performance. However, it’s important to remember that it’s just one game. While the win was impressive, the change in formation was long overdue. The players appeared much more comfortable in this new system, and with some small tweaks tailored to future opponents, we can hope that Jones will stick with it.
This win, while significant, isn’t what will define the season. The real test lies in how the team performs over the next 10 games. The football prior to Saturday had been some of the most uninspiring and lackluster in recent memory. If Jones avoids reverting to a five-man defense, and with Leaburn regaining full fitness, a top-six finish is within reach. However, consistency is key, and the team needs to build on this momentum to sustain long-term success.
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Post by scabbyhorse on Oct 7, 2024 4:43:01 GMT
Also, it’s crucial that the squad strengthens in January by bringing in a creative midfielder. This addition could add a new dynamic to the attack, providing more options and helping maintain the progress seen after the recent tactical shift.
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Post by aaronaldo on Oct 7, 2024 7:56:48 GMT
The play-offs are a realistic potential for me. Mainly due to the fact that we’ve shown we can defend very well in a 4 at the back or 5 at the back.
We still lack goals or more so, the build up to the goal. We lack the cutting edge creativity, which I think is why we do better against the better sides who are taking more risks. Our creativity at the weekend (and all season), as been mentioned elsewhere, is our high press. We caused a lot of problems for Birmingham due to that. When we come up against a team who are trying to not lose, we can’t break them down. That’s where it’s obvious with the lack of creativity we have. Our high press is less effective as they still have 4/5 people behind the ball when we win it high up the pitch.
We have to solve that in January if we want to hit the play-offs. However, with a. It of luck I think we have enough to be there or there about by Christmas. We will need to score more from set-pieces etc to cover this obvious gap in the team. Hopefully the change in formation and move away from hoofball brings more chance creation as well.
It was only one game as you say. The thing that gave me more hope wasn’t the change of formation but the change in tactics. We didn’t bypass the midfield as much. Far less long balls to the strikers. Nathan had me worried he only played one way and that way wasn’t effective for us. I’m not a massive fan of 3-5-2 but that not to say it couldn’t work for us in the right situation if we combine it with better tactics and less route one balls. I feel like 4 at the back should suit us though. We’ve been afraid of it for so long it feels like. The thought of Hector, Thomas etc in a back 4 is the stuff of nightmares. But we’ve shown we can do it against the best attacking side in the league.
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Post by dickybaby on Oct 7, 2024 8:16:06 GMT
Maybe less lack of budget and poor recruitment versus not playing to the strengths of the players we have. We bought ball playing slightly older midfielders and decided to lump it to the number 9 and play off there, doesnt make sense to me.
Scott gets stick but big shout out to whoever bought Ramsay, a great player who we may sell for decent money.
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Post by aucklandaddick on Oct 7, 2024 8:40:48 GMT
Maybe less lack of budget and poor recruitment versus not playing to the strengths of the players we have. We bought ball playing slightly older midfielders and decided to lump it to the number 9 and play off there, doesnt make sense to me. Scott gets stick but big shout out to whoever bought Ramsay, a great player who we may sell for decent money. I think Jones had a major influence on bringing in both Ramsay and Small right at the beginning of his tenure… |
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Post by dickybaby on Oct 7, 2024 8:50:26 GMT
Small is pony
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Post by aucklandaddick on Oct 7, 2024 9:18:47 GMT
Small is an interesting one because the back end of last season he was probably our most creative outlet, beating his full back for fun on the outside and putting decent crosses in….this season I don’t remember him going past anyone with any real intent and I don’t think he has put a decent cross in yet…I think he will struggle to get much game time as the excellent Edwards and Ramsay are two of the best full backs we have had in a long time, I still think Small has plenty of ability personally…..Matt Penney and Papa Souare were definitely Pony I don’t think Small is….it may well be a confidence thing at present |
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Post by earlpurple on Oct 7, 2024 12:10:52 GMT
Small was hailed as a massive talent for the future but failed at other clubs then came down to League One to play for Charlton to try to resurrect his career.
It is up to the coaching team to get the best out of him as I'm sure he has ability.
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Post by grapevine49 on Oct 13, 2024 11:36:30 GMT
As the board is a little quieter I felt I would share a few thoughts.
Yes we all, including me, have to accept we are freely commenting on an industry in which we have never directly professionally managed but the balance is many can reflect on the journeys they have travelled where we know there are times every manager in every business in every industry has to make decisions/ explore changes/ test options without any guarantees of outcome. IIRC the MBA course had a specific business discipline (name eludes me) on the topic.
In the end any manager too frightened to explore options/ test opportunities and take risks will lead you/ your business nowhere. As an example there was nothing overly complicated with how Carsley asked England to play but half the players looked lost. Maybe just maybe they aren’t as good as we thought they were. I found Rice and TAA, as experienced players really disappointing, they failed throughout to get hold of people to pull and push them into the right shape. Sometimes changes works sometimes they don’t but you certainly learn stuff.
In terms of noise will there always be any number of naysayers endlessly lobbing bricks from the sidelines? Of course it comes with the territory. There is no right or wrong way to respond. Ultimately you have to be true to yourself. I on occasion happily put a few mouthy bastards, among work colleagues and clients, back in their box and that was in banking!
In truth I wasn’t really intending to contribute on our progress until early December re a January reset but the;
- end of the Summer recruitment programme
- 10 day apparent « brain fart », Birmingham redemption & matters arising
- Methvens’ Bromley « fireside chat »
- ACA challenges
present an uncomfortable picture.
I do not look to denigrate anybody who seeks to serve the best interests of the club be it investor, executive, club official, manager or player but do try to understand structure, strategy & performance. Quite simply I fail to see how the clubhouse, its Manager & players have been empowered to deliver promotion. I can acknowledge progress has been made but;
a) final recruitment relative to the work done since February doesn’t add up.
b) the endless reassertion Jones gets to « sign off » players is meaningless.
c) was the Rodwell «reshuffle » intent on re-imposing an 8+8+8 discipline..
When it take months to sign off 2 veterans on short term contracts, you still don’t fund a 3rd senior keeper, we a) didn’t finish the job b) dissipated the earlier momentum. It can but prompt questions of just who ultimately set the « target menu & tariff?” How many targets did we miss? How many players did Jones reject? Oh but we tried really hard doesn’t really cut it.
Whatever monies Jones apparently agreed at the outset with investors everything points to brakes being applied. We have been here before.
I am sorry after 15 months and registering the worst season in recent history I cannot avoid the conclusion the business structure remains flawed. There is no one way to run a business but one of our size seems ill suited to operating in « Silos “ while no matter the reshuffle Rodwell remains anonymous and Methven an intermittent mouthpiece
The Silos? 1. USA Investment 2. UK Plus Investment* 3. SMT Business Administration 4. Medical & Physical 5. Football Management 6. Academy. The decisions of each can but impact the « end product » and with so many divisions it is easy to see how a flawed specifically categorised 8+8+8 plan just fits right in.
*Which in itself appears to be constructed with its own collection of “mini silos”
The challenge with Silos is people get oh so enthused in doing oh so well for their Silo without ever delivering ultimate value to the core business. It easily becomes a refuge of endless plausible deniability. In a business seemingly structured not to have too many « grown ups » it appears (just like England) we don’t have a one seeing the need to pull and push the overall « business ownership, accountability, clarity & leadership »into shape.
Yes Methven has moved from being a « noises off » conduit to a more central function. Yet he spends more time advising what he is not responsible for and on EFL restrictions he can’t control while displaying the corporate disciplines of a gnat. At one level it is trite and some will welcome the “titbits” but as a principle it is fundamental. Why have « undisclosed fees », write Private & Confidential across every contract for an executive to happily mouth off on individual transfer fees. If he can pick and choose when such rules apply so can every other bugger.
It is easy to see why the noise over Appletons’ departure, Jones recruitment and Dobson became so prolific…but everbody does it ……is simply not true. I don’t doubt the man has skills & style but he seems well short of being fit for purpose.
For most League 1 clubs the structure is simple. The industry default is one business, one club, one clubhouse, one squad, one team. with the objective to sustainably empower & support the one team to pursue sporting excellence in attaining the highest UK playing status.
Based on what you have seen does it look like such is our business focus and objective? Yes every business has to evidence balance and restraint in the logistics of delivering to the objective but it will not progress if you lose sight of the objective.
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Post by grapevine49 on Oct 13, 2024 11:42:43 GMT
Some have made much of a very poor 10 day period. No matter our pain over the past 17 seasons, personal abuse is completely unacceptable. There is no justification. There is no entitlement. Find it uncomfortable or not, any victim of abuse, has every right to challenge it at every turn.
Despite its commercialisation and prawn sandwiches football is at its core an industrial environment where people to survive are expected/ need to stand their ground. Stuff the middle class values, if you want to dish it out be prepared to get it back. If you want to engage at that level it comes with « warts an all ». I’d far rather a manager be true to his style of managing & communicating than listen to endless homogenised cliches. The double standards of some are extraordinary.
Equally every manager has the right to set his players the challenge of performing to their contract and playing outside of their comfort zone. If players really can’t develop their game there is no point them being there. Go back to running up and down terraces and round the pitch. In truth the Jones demands were not excessive yet the players badly failed to meet basic challenges. No matter the Jones « mea culpa », the failure was on them.
Meeting the comfort zone challenges set in the Birmingham fixture for me precisely speaks to player limitations, and their broader ability to deliver to promotion ambitions going forward. 4-2-2-2 in League 1 is not a promotion panacea. This squad has delivered some of the most sterile football imaginable. As Jones states he, we and those controlling the footballing infrastructure & purse strings should have learned a great deal.
If the final recruitment didn’t convince you, then Charlie boy in Bromley happily pitched in on the footballing strategy;
- 27* players on the training pitch is too many
- Training pitch & medical improvements means we need less players
- Young professionals need first team exposure
- We spend £1m more on our Academy than any other League 1 club
*With the injury profiles in the current contracts 27 players is far from generous.
It is Duchâteletesque. What is on offer is a cut down version of the failed Sandgaard-Roddy Pipeline implementation. It fundamentally undermines any promotion ambition. In short 8+8+8 is nonsense. Notably so when you go out & recruit a manager on a 4yr contract who disciplines are built around 2 fully functioning professionals competing for every outfield position, two margin, and 3 keepers. (25 players). Due diligence anyone?
If well managed by the executive healthy debate and internal challenges can drive any business forward otherwise it is a recipe for repeated internal political friction, operational conflict & frustration.
I see no evidence of an appropriate executive in sight.
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Post by seriouslyred on Oct 13, 2024 14:54:29 GMT
The question is whether the glass is seen as half full or half empty? Are we delighted, relieved or disappointed to be level on points with sixth place after ten games played?
And after beating Birmingham, where do we see us going next? As posted before, if we can't compete for a place in the play-offs, then what actions will the main investors wish to take?
Nothing is perfect of course, but we do have a manager with a track record at this level, plus a director of performance with a decade in the game at Brighton. And the defensive frailties have been resolved.
Plenty of comments about the squad elsewhere - is it and the tactics applied going in the right direction? The players need to do their stuff, but so do the executive.
In Meire, ESI and Sandgaard the competition really isn't that steep. CAFC simply didn't recruit experienced football executives between 2013 and 2023! That's a decade without introducing those who know the game inside out.
A decade of floundering, including Sandgaard committing £1M+ pa of scarce resource to professionalising the women's team. Budget that does little towards returning us to the Championship.
Just as we discuss our club, let's hope that the executive use this break to recalibrate their approach. And work out how to deliver further improvement. One more push and we could be looking at play-off semi finals in six months time?! So perhaps the question is how likely do we think that possibility is today?
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Post by AndyB on Oct 13, 2024 16:36:22 GMT
The question is whether the glass is seen as half full or half empty? Are we delighted, relieved or disappointed to be level on points with sixth place after ten games played? And after beating Birmingham, where do we see us going next? As posted before, if we can't compete for a place in the play-offs, then what actions will the main investors wish to take? Nothing is perfect of course, but we do have a manager with a track record at this level, plus a director of performance with a decade in the game at Brighton. And the defensive frailties have been resolved. Plenty of comments about the squad elsewhere - is it and the tactics applied going in the right direction? The players need to do their stuff, but so do the executive. In Meire, ESI and Sandgaard the competition really isn't that steep. CAFC simply didn't recruit experienced football executives between 2013 and 2023! That's a decade without introducing those who know the game inside out. A decade of floundering, including Sandgaard committing £1M+ pa of scarce resource to professionalising the women's team. Budget that does little towards returning us to the Championship. Just as we discuss our club, let's hope that the executive use this break to recalibrate their approach. And work out how to deliver further improvement. One more push and we could be looking at play-off semi finals in six months time?! So perhaps the question is how likely do we think that possibility is today? Will you ever get to point where we say “this is where we at” ? You can’t keep glossing over the fact that we haven’t received the backing we expected, the squad isn’t good enough to get consistent positive results - basically the new owners/lenders aren’t really Charlton people , they just want to gamble on making a few quid without spending too much ? |
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Post by seriouslyred on Oct 13, 2024 16:48:56 GMT
The question is whether the glass is seen as half full or half empty? Are we delighted, relieved or disappointed to be level on points with sixth place after ten games played? And after beating Birmingham, where do we see us going next? As posted before, if we can't compete for a place in the play-offs, then what actions will the main investors wish to take? Nothing is perfect of course, but we do have a manager with a track record at this level, plus a director of performance with a decade in the game at Brighton. And the defensive frailties have been resolved. Plenty of comments about the squad elsewhere - is it and the tactics applied going in the right direction? The players need to do their stuff, but so do the executive. In Meire, ESI and Sandgaard the competition really isn't that steep. CAFC simply didn't recruit experienced football executives between 2013 and 2023! That's a decade without introducing those who know the game inside out. A decade of floundering, including Sandgaard committing £1M+ pa of scarce resource to professionalising the women's team. Budget that does little towards returning us to the Championship. Just as we discuss our club, let's hope that the executive use this break to recalibrate their approach. And work out how to deliver further improvement. One more push and we could be looking at play-off semi finals in six months time?! So perhaps the question is how likely do we think that possibility is today? Will you ever get to point where we say “this is where we at” ? You can’t keep glossing over the fact that we haven’t received the backing we expected, the squad isn’t good enough to get consistent positive results - basically the new owners/lenders aren’t really Charlton people , they just want to gamble on making a few quid without spending too much ? Yes! In five-ten games times we and the competition will all have played enough to assess precisely where we are. At that point I'd expect the owners and executive to be discussing exactly what it will take to finish sixth or better. Failure to make the playoffs shouldn't even be considered as an option! In defence of the investors and management there have been many moving parts and adjustments to make. These next ten games will hopefully be much smoother in terms of selection and tactics. |
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Post by AndyB on Oct 13, 2024 16:54:16 GMT
Will you ever get to point where we say “this is where we at” ? You can’t keep glossing over the fact that we haven’t received the backing we expected, the squad isn’t good enough to get consistent positive results - basically the new owners/lenders aren’t really Charlton people , they just want to gamble on making a few quid without spending too much ? Yes! In five-ten games times we and the competition will all have played enough to assess precisely where we are. At that point I'd expect the owners and executive to be discussing exactly what it will take to finish sixth or better. Failure to make the playoffs shouldn't even be considered as an option! In defence of the investors and management there have been many moving parts and adjustments to make. These next ten games will hopefully be much smoother in terms of selection and tactics. Do you not see that you repeatedly say the same thing though ? At the moment I can’t see an improvement with these owners / lenders - we sold the leagues top scorer to invest in mediocre league 1 players , we’re not progressing just stagnating |
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Post by seriouslyred on Oct 13, 2024 17:15:11 GMT
Yes! In five-ten games times we and the competition will all have played enough to assess precisely where we are. At that point I'd expect the owners and executive to be discussing exactly what it will take to finish sixth or better. Failure to make the playoffs shouldn't even be considered as an option! In defence of the investors and management there have been many moving parts and adjustments to make. These next ten games will hopefully be much smoother in terms of selection and tactics. Do you not see that you repeatedly say the same thing though ? At the moment I can’t see an improvement with these owners / lenders - we sold the leagues top scorer to invest in mediocre league 1 players , we’re not progressing just stagnating Without doubt our defence has improved and over the next few games we'll see whether we can control and create enough to beat our rivals, starting with Stockport. NJ et al have to do the work at Sparrows Lane and I'm actually confident we will be in the frame come January. We should also expect to see higher revenues AND more quality added in January. Making the top six is one thing but beating the likes of Stockport and Huddersfield in the actual play-offs is another. |
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Post by AndyB on Oct 13, 2024 17:42:39 GMT
Do you not see that you repeatedly say the same thing though ? At the moment I can’t see an improvement with these owners / lenders - we sold the leagues top scorer to invest in mediocre league 1 players , we’re not progressing just stagnating Without doubt our defence has improved and over the next few games we'll see whether we can control and create enough to beat our rivals, starting with Stockport. NJ et al have to do the work at Sparrows Lane and I'm actually confident we will be in the frame come January. We should also expect to see higher revenues AND more quality added in January. Making the top six is one thing but beating the likes of Stockport and Huddersfield in the actual play-offs is another. More quality added in January?? I’m not so sure , January is a panic , pay over the odds window - our present owners/ lenders won’t be splashing the cash - more like selling the family silver ! |
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Post by petetongthereturn on Oct 13, 2024 19:03:39 GMT
Without doubt our defence has improved and over the next few games we'll see whether we can control and create enough to beat our rivals, starting with Stockport. NJ et al have to do the work at Sparrows Lane and I'm actually confident we will be in the frame come January. We should also expect to see higher revenues AND more quality added in January. Making the top six is one thing but beating the likes of Stockport and Huddersfield in the actual play-offs is another. More quality added in January?? I’m not so sure , January is a panic , pay over the odds window - our present owners/ lenders won’t be splashing the cash - more like selling the family silver ! Ramsey will be sold. 1.8 million profit. |
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Post by petetongthereturn on Oct 13, 2024 19:04:20 GMT
More quality added in January?? I’m not so sure , January is a panic , pay over the odds window - our present owners/ lenders won’t be splashing the cash - more like selling the family silver ! Ramsey will be sold. 1.8 million profit. . Instead of building around him. |
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Post by earlpurple on Oct 14, 2024 8:11:42 GMT
When you hear Charlie Methven speak about Charlton Athletic and the plan, although he says he isn't in charge of the footballing side at all, he's very clear that the vision on which he "sold" the club to the investors is our academy, and one of the positives is that paying for the academy does not come under the budget rules (60% of turnover on player wages) i.e. on the training facilities / coaches and also the players themselves, and this he sees as a huge advantage.
He has also said that one of the advantage of our academy over that of Arsenal or Chelsea is that the players will often get the chance to play in the first team, which is highly unlikely in either of those teams.
In addition, when a player of quality comes through the academy and he is sold to a big club, there are always sell-on fees so if Joe Gomez, Ezri Konza, Ademola Lookman, Nick Pope or Karlan Grant was transferred for a big fee, we get a cut of that which goes into our turnover thus increasing the budget we can spend on wages.
The issues I have found is that almost as soon as we do get a great player who comes through our academy they appear to move on. That may well have included Miles Leaburn last season if he hadn't been injured for most of it, as obviously nobody was going to sign an injured player.
It has felt clear to me in the last couple of season that our managers have been pressured to play our academy players who maybe are not quite good enough, or at least not consistent enough. In the past we may have sent them out on loan to get more first-team experience, and also got a few great loan players in ourselves.
The 2021-22 season was of course disappointing finishing 10th with Ben Garner and then Dean Holden in charge, but we had a great loan player in our team called Jesurun Rak-Sayki, and of course we couldn't keep him but he was extremely creative and helped us pick up many points. We had a number of good loan players playing for us also in 2020-21. Last season we only got poor loans and this year I don't think we have any at all (Why not? Do Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham or even Brentford or Palace have no decent players they could send out to League One clubs to get good playing experience, particularly some creative ones?. I wonder if the policy was to try to sign our own and not rely on loans which is always short-term? Maybe we can get some loans in the January transfer window which can help us get to the playoffs. It nearly worked for Lincoln last season).
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Post by kings hill addick on Oct 14, 2024 8:22:20 GMT
When you hear Charlie Methven speak about Charlton Athletic and the plan, although he says he isn't in charge of the footballing side at all, he's very clear that the vision on which he "sold" the club to the investors is our academy, and one of the positives is that paying for the academy does not come under the budget rules (60% of turnover on player wages) i.e. on the training facilities / coaches and also the players themselves, and this he sees as a huge advantage. He has also said that one of the advantage of our academy over that of Arsenal or Chelsea is that the players will often get the chance to play in the first team, which is highly unlikely in either of those teams. In addition, when a player of quality comes through the academy and he is sold to a big club, there are always sell-on fees so if Joe Gomez, Ezri Konza, Ademola Lookman, Nick Pope or Karlan Grant was transferred for a big fee, we get a cut of that which goes into our turnover thus increasing the budget we can spend on wages. The issues I have found is that almost as soon as we do get a great player who comes through our academy they appear to move on. That may well have included Miles Leaburn last season if he hadn't been injured for most of it, as obviously nobody was going to sign an injured player. It has felt clear to me in the last couple of season that our managers have been pressured to play our academy players who maybe are not quite good enough, or at least not consistent enough. In the past we may have sent them out on loan to get more first-team experience, and also got a few great loan players in ourselves. The 2021-22 season was of course disappointing finishing 10th with Ben Garner and then Dean Holden in charge, but we had a great loan player in our team called Jesurun Rak-Sayki, and of course we couldn't keep him but he was extremely creative and helped us pick up many points. We had a number of good loan players playing for us also in 2020-21. Last season we only got poor loans and this year I don't think we have any at all (Why not? Do Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham or even Brentford or Palace have no decent players they could send out to League One clubs to get good playing experience, particularly some creative ones?. I wonder if the policy was to try to sign our own and not rely on loans which is always short-term? Maybe we can get some loans in the January transfer window which can help us get to the playoffs. It nearly worked for Lincoln last season). Charlie Methven openly said, on his podcast, that one of the KPIs that the manager has to hit is a minimum number of minutes played by academy players. He didn’t say what the number was or how it’s calculated (league games, each game or overall, etc.) So you are right. The manager has to play academy players. It is one of his KPIs. |
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Post by Mundell on Oct 14, 2024 10:17:01 GMT
grapevine49 There is a Swiss Ramble piece called 'English Clubs by revenue grouping' which you might find of interest. You can find it on Substack. It's behind a paywall though so I can't link, but the table below captures a few highlights relevant to us. The data covers the 2022-23 season which is the latest available. All the clubs included were playing in League One at the time. | CLUB | Revenue £m | Wages £m | Wages/Rev % | Operating loss £m |
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| | | | | 1. Ipswich T | 21.8 | 19.8 | 91 | (19.8) | | 2. Derby C | 20.4 | 17.2 | 84 | (12.2) | | 3. Bolton W | 19.4 | 12.8 | 66 | (6.6) | | 4. Sheffield W | 19.3 | 15.8 | 82 | (7.3) | | 5. Plymouth A | 14.7 | 9.1 | 62 | (3.9) | | 6. Portsmouth | 12.5 | 8.3 | 66 | (3.8) | | 7. Peterborough U | 10.5 | 7.7 | 73 | (5.5) | | 8. Charlton A | 9.8 | 10.3 | 105 | (9.7) | | 9. Barnsley | 9.5 | 9.3 | 97 | (7.3) |
Note: Wages is total wages, not just player wages. On average player wages probably represent circa 60% of the total. This would mean that we were just compliant with the SCMP without the need for fortune income. These numbers speak for themselves and the picture would be even more challenging if we were playing in the Championship. If you were the owner of Charlton I reckon you'd draw two main conclusions. First, the club has somehow got to increase revenues beyond that which might result from better performances on the pitch. Second, the club has got to be much smarter about the way it spends wage bill. I doubt very much that you'd conclude we need to spend (lose) even more money, at least not until there is some very clear evidence that the SMT is capable of spending it more effectively. From my perspective the owners have a sensible plan and don't lack ambition. The execution of that plan is very mixed so far though. Heads should and probably will roll if that doesn't change. The benchmark for that judgement needs to be a place in the top six or, at a minimum, a very near miss.
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Post by seriouslyred on Oct 14, 2024 12:48:28 GMT
grapevine49 There is a Swiss Ramble piece called 'English Clubs by revenue grouping' which you might find of interest. You can find it on Substack. It's behind a paywall though so I can't link, but the table below captures a few highlights relevant to us. The data covers the 2022-23 season which is the latest available. All the clubs included were playing in League One at the time. | CLUB | Revenue £m | Wages £m | Wages/Rev % | Operating loss £m |
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| | | | | 1. Ipswich T | 21.8 | 19.8 | 91 | (19.8) | | 2. Derby C | 20.4 | 17.2 | 84 | (12.2) | | 3. Bolton W | 19.4 | 12.8 | 66 | (6.6) | | 4. Sheffield W | 19.3 | 15.8 | 82 | (7.3) | | 5. Plymouth A | 14.7 | 9.1 | 62 | (3.9) | | 6. Portsmouth | 12.5 | 8.3 | 66 | (3.8) | | 7. Peterborough U | 10.5 | 7.7 | 73 | (5.5) | | 8. Charlton A | 9.8 | 10.3 | 105 | (9.7) | | 9. Barnsley | 9.5 | 9.3 | 97 | (7.3) |
Note: Wages is total wages, not just player wages. On average player wages probably represent circa 60% of the total. This would mean that we were just compliant with the SCMP without the need for fortune income. These numbers speak for themselves and the picture would be even more challenging if we were playing in the Championship. If you were the owner of Charlton I reckon you'd draw two main conclusions. First, the club has somehow got to increase revenues beyond that which might result from better performances on the pitch. Second, the club has got to be much smarter about the way it spends wage bill. I doubt very much that you'd conclude we need to spend (lose) even more money, at least not until there is some very clear evidence that the SMT is capable of spending it more effectively. From my perspective the owners have a sensible plan and don't lack ambition. The execution of that plan is very mixed so far though. Heads should and probably will roll if that doesn't change. The benchmark for that judgement needs to be a place in the top six or, at a minimum, a very near miss. Those wage numbers will include promotion bonuses which distorts. Take off say £3M per promoted club and there's a clear pattern. As posted higher up CAFC is always a top six payer, so with a top Academy we should be far more competitive. 100% agree that the investors will want to see good use of the available budget before increasing it. Like us fans, they will want better performances and results. And want to know what changes are required to keep improving. Our revenues are definitely increasing. 16,000 seats already sold vs Wrexham with an ambition of a 20,000 gate all helps towards a 12-15% increase in the average gate this season. Elsewhere we have seen the CEO quote other revenue increases. Where some will differ is that they will be agnostic about whether operating losses should improve or not. We absolutely need a top six finish, so should that be prioritised above and beyond the bottom line? Improving performances and reslts is going to take time, and the club is fast approaching a crossroads late November where decisions and potential outcomes need to be reviewed. Should they look to spend more in the January window so as to push on? At the same time, Nathan Jones approaches his first anniversary as manager. When was the last time CAFC retained a manager / coach for 46+ games?! |
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Post by valleydobson1 on Oct 15, 2024 14:37:36 GMT
grapevine49 There is a Swiss Ramble piece called 'English Clubs by revenue grouping' which you might find of interest. You can find it on Substack. It's behind a paywall though so I can't link, but the table below captures a few highlights relevant to us. The data covers the 2022-23 season which is the latest available. All the clubs included were playing in League One at the time. | CLUB | Revenue £m | Wages £m | Wages/Rev % | Operating loss £m |
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| | | | | 1. Ipswich T | 21.8 | 19.8 | 91 | (19.8) | | 2. Derby C | 20.4 | 17.2 | 84 | (12.2) | | 3. Bolton W | 19.4 | 12.8 | 66 | (6.6) | | 4. Sheffield W | 19.3 | 15.8 | 82 | (7.3) | | 5. Plymouth A | 14.7 | 9.1 | 62 | (3.9) | | 6. Portsmouth | 12.5 | 8.3 | 66 | (3.8) | | 7. Peterborough U | 10.5 | 7.7 | 73 | (5.5) | | 8. Charlton A | 9.8 | 10.3 | 105 | (9.7) | | 9. Barnsley | 9.5 | 9.3 | 97 | (7.3) |
Note: Wages is total wages, not just player wages. On average player wages probably represent circa 60% of the total. This would mean that we were just compliant with the SCMP without the need for fortune income. These numbers speak for themselves and the picture would be even more challenging if we were playing in the Championship. If you were the owner of Charlton I reckon you'd draw two main conclusions. First, the club has somehow got to increase revenues beyond that which might result from better performances on the pitch. Second, the club has got to be much smarter about the way it spends wage bill. I doubt very much that you'd conclude we need to spend (lose) even more money, at least not until there is some very clear evidence that the SMT is capable of spending it more effectively. From my perspective the owners have a sensible plan and don't lack ambition. The execution of that plan is very mixed so far though. Heads should and probably will roll if that doesn't change. The benchmark for that judgement needs to be a place in the top six or, at a minimum, a very near miss. Those wage numbers will include promotion bonuses which distorts. Take off say £3M per promoted club and there's a clear pattern. As posted higher up CAFC is always a top six payer, so with a top Academy we should be far more competitive. 100% agree that the investors will want to see good use of the available budget before increasing it. Like us fans, they will want better performances and results. And want to know what changes are required to keep improving. Our revenues are definitely increasing. 16,000 seats already sold vs Wrexham with an ambition of a 20,000 gate all helps towards a 12-15% increase in the average gate this season. Elsewhere we have seen the CEO quote other revenue increases. Where some will differ is that they will be agnostic about whether operating losses should improve or not. We absolutely need a top six finish, so should that be prioritised above and beyond the bottom line? Improving performances and reslts is going to take time, and the club is fast approaching a crossroads late November where decisions and potential outcomes need to be reviewed. Should they look to spend more in the January window so as to push on? At the same time, Nathan Jones approaches his first anniversary as manager. When was the last time CAFC retained a manager / coach for 46+ games?! How comes we still In league one ? Also Roland still has the Valley and training ground. x.com/CafcFacts/status/1846074535214207272?t=2L3UNIULCZye7Gdzq4L0_w&s=19 |
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