Charlie Methven Podcast

[Mundell]

With thanks to weststandman for alerting me to the “Where’s The Money Gone” podcast in one of their posts a few weeks back, I thought I’d draw wider attention to it by advertising it in a thread of its own. 

The podcast is hosted by Adrian Goldberg, who is a West Brom fan, with Charlie Methven answering his questions and using it as a platform to share his views on the football industry. There is, inevitably, a lot of reference to Charlton. 

The first two episodes in the series covered “Why Would Anyone Buy a Football Club” and “Inside The Transfer Window”.These were both interesting and worth listening to for anyone who has time. I’ve now listened to the third episode, titled “An Independent Football Regulator”. It’s absolutely fascinating and I’d highly recommend it. 

Once again, Methven is informed and articulate and, in my view, much more informative and insightful about the Regulator than many commentators, including, for example, the popular and highly rated Price of Football podcast (though for what it’s worth I wouldn’t particularly recommend Kevin Day and Kieran Maguire’s ramblings). More importantly though what Methven says has huge implications for SE7’s strategy for Charlton while, along the way, he shares some very revealing anecdotes about developments at the club. 

The anecdotes first. First, when talking about the OADT he explained that this is already a very thorough process and had taken two months at Charlton with all shareholders with stakes above 5% subject to robust DD. He then said that he and his fellow shareholders had very recently spent the day in Preston on an owners induction course. This must have included Friedman, Brener et al, though it’s possible they attended virtually. Either way, it’s interesting that they’ve been involved in this way. 

Second, during a discussion about how he (Methven) believes enhanced financial controls will be introduced in the Championship as a quid pro quo for increased EPL funding for the EFL, he explained how the SCMP worked. In doing so he said that Charlton had overspent their budget, i.e. had exceeded 60% of turnover over the summer, because we’d been unable to offload two players we hadn’t planned to retain, (it seems bexleyboy was right) and that in response a) he’d had to write to the EFL to explain and apologise and b) the club had had to organise a small equity injection in order to comply. That’s an extraordinary degree of transparency on his part. 

Third, Methven argued that a shift from the laughably named Profit and Sustainability rules in the Championship to something more akin to the SCMP used in Leagues One and Two would involve a culture shock for fans. He said, directly, that while Charlton was struggling to comply with the SCMP during the last window, the club’s fans were nevertheless complaining that not enough money was being spent!! Later in the podcast he said that there were two types of Supporters Trust, with one type focused on the sustainability of the club and the other acting more as a protest group calling for more spending. Unsurprisingly he didn’t say which group CAST are in, but he did venture that those in the second group would become irrelevant!! seriouslyred would be amused, I’m sure. I like Charlie. He clearly says what he thinks. 

Strategically, it’s now very clear where SE7 stands. While we are in League One it appears that we’ll spend up to, but not beyond the SCMP limits, i.e. 60% of turnover, though Methven did stress that this limit does not include U21s (except for loan players) and that this was a major advantage for Charlton and an important reason why GFP found the club attractive. It also explains why we have so many youngsters in the First Team squad. Methven explained this meant there was more money to spend on a smaller number of more experienced players. 

This will become even more relevant if and when the club is promoted to the Championship. Methven is clearly making a bet that the financial landscape in the Championship is going to become much less hostile so that it will be possible to compete without the need for crippling losses. It is ironic that this was Duchatelet’s vision too and it was the insane abandonment of any serious financial discipline in the Championship which killed any ambition he might have had. It’s now clear that there is a risk of history repeating itself. GFP have not signed up to the madhouse so we’ll need to hope Methven is right about reform. 

Anyway, as I said, I highly recommended the podcast. 

PS The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts and I’m sure on other platforms too. 

[manikin]

Sept 12, 2023 17:44:51 GMT Mundell said:

With thanks to weststandman for alerting me to the “Where’s The Money Gone” podcast in one of their posts a few weeks back, I thought I’d draw wider attention to it by advertising it in a thread of its own. 

The podcast is hosted by Adrian Goldberg, who is a West Brom fan, with Charlie Methven answering his questions and using it as a platform to share his views on the football industry. There is, inevitably, a lot of reference to Charlton. 

The first two episodes in the series covered “Why Would Anyone Buy a Football Club” and “Inside The Transfer Window”.These were both interesting and worth listening to for anyone who has time. I’ve now listened to the third episode, titled “An Independent Football Regulator”. It’s absolutely fascinating and I’d highly recommend it. 

Once again, Methven is informed and articulate and, in my view, much more informative and insightful about the Regulator than many commentators, including, for example, the popular and highly rated Price of Football podcast (though for what it’s worth I wouldn’t particularly recommend Kevin Day and Kieran Maguire’s ramblings). More importantly though what Methven says has huge implications for SE7’s strategy for Charlton while, along the way, he shares some very revealing anecdotes about developments at the club. 

The anecdotes first. First, when talking about the QADT he explained that this is already a very thorough process and had taken two months at Charlton with all shareholders with stakes above 5% subject to robust DD. He then said that he and his fellow shareholders had very recently spent the day in Preston on an owners induction course. This must have included Friedman, Brener et al, though it’s possible they attended virtually. Either way, it’s interesting that they’ve been involved in this way. 

Second, during a discussion about how he (Methven) believes enhanced financial controls will be introduced in the Championship as a quid pro quo for increased EPL funding for the EFL, he explained how the SCMP worked. In doing so he said that Charlton had overspent their budget, i.e. had exceeded 60% of turnover over the summer, because we’d been unable to offload two players we hadn’t planned to retain, (it seems bexleyboy was right) and that in response a) he’d had to write to the EFL to explain and apologise and b) the club had had to organise a small equity injection in order to comply. That’s an extraordinary degree of transparency on his part. 

Third, Methven argued that a shift from the laughably named Profit and Sustainability rules in the Championship to something more akin to the SCMP used in Leagues One and Two would involve a culture shock for fans. He said, directly, that while Charlton was struggling to comply with the SCMP during the last window, the club’s fans were nevertheless complaining that not enough money was being spent!! Later in the podcast he said that there were two types of Supporters Trust, with one type focused on the sustainability of the club and the other acting more as a protest group calling for more spending. Unsurprisingly he didn’t say which group CAST are in, but he did venture that those in the second group would become irrelevant!! seriouslyred would be amused, I’m sure. I like Charlie. He clearly says what he thinks. 

Strategically, it’s now very clear where SE7 stands. While we are in League One it appears that we’ll spend up to, but not beyond the SCMP limits, i.e. 60% of turnover, though Methven did stress that this limit does not include U21s (except for loan players) and that this was a major advantage for Charlton and an important reason why GFP found the club attractive. It also explains why we have so many youngsters in the First Team squad. Methven explained this meant there was more money to spend on a smaller number of more experienced players. 

This will become even more relevant if and when the club is promoted to the Championship. Methven is clearly making a bet that the financial landscape in the Championship is going to become much less hostile so that it will be possible to compete without the need for crippling losses. It is ironic that this was Duchatelet’s vision too and it was the insane abandonment of any serious financial discipline in the Championship which killed any ambition he might have had. It’s now clear that there is a risk of history repeating itself. GFP have not signed up to the madhouse so we’ll need to hope Methven is right about reform. 

Anyway, as I said, I highly recommended the podcast. 

PS The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts and I’m sure on other platforms too. 

Very interesting, plenty to think about and digest.

[seriouslyred]

Sept 12, 2023 17:44:51 GMT Mundell said:

With thanks to weststandman for alerting me to the “Where’s The Money Gone” podcast in one of their posts a few weeks back, I thought I’d draw wider attention to it by advertising it in a thread of its own. 

The podcast is hosted by Adrian Goldberg, who is a West Brom fan, with Charlie Methven answering his questions and using it as a platform to share his views on the football industry. There is, inevitably, a lot of reference to Charlton. 

The first two episodes in the series covered “Why Would Anyone Buy a Football Club” and “Inside The Transfer Window”.These were both interesting and worth listening to for anyone who has time. I’ve now listened to the third episode, titled “An Independent Football Regulator”. It’s absolutely fascinating and I’d highly recommend it. 

Once again, Methven is informed and articulate and, in my view, much more informative and insightful about the Regulator than many commentators, including, for example, the popular and highly rated Price of Football podcast (though for what it’s worth I wouldn’t particularly recommend Kevin Day and Kieran Maguire’s ramblings). More importantly though what Methven says has huge implications for SE7’s strategy for Charlton while, along the way, he shares some very revealing anecdotes about developments at the club. 

The anecdotes first. First, when talking about the OADT he explained that this is already a very thorough process and had taken two months at Charlton with all shareholders with stakes above 5% subject to robust DD. He then said that he and his fellow shareholders had very recently spent the day in Preston on an owners induction course. This must have included Friedman, Brener et al, though it’s possible they attended virtually. Either way, it’s interesting that they’ve been involved in this way. 

Second, during a discussion about how he (Methven) believes enhanced financial controls will be introduced in the Championship as a quid pro quo for increased EPL funding for the EFL, he explained how the SCMP worked. In doing so he said that Charlton had overspent their budget, i.e. had exceeded 60% of turnover over the summer, because we’d been unable to offload two players we hadn’t planned to retain, (it seems bexleyboy was right) and that in response a) he’d had to write to the EFL to explain and apologise and b) the club had had to organise a small equity injection in order to comply. That’s an extraordinary degree of transparency on his part. 

Third, Methven argued that a shift from the laughably named Profit and Sustainability rules in the Championship to something more akin to the SCMP used in Leagues One and Two would involve a culture shock for fans. He said, directly, that while Charlton was struggling to comply with the SCMP during the last window, the club’s fans were nevertheless complaining that not enough money was being spent!! Later in the podcast he said that there were two types of Supporters Trust, with one type focused on the sustainability of the club and the other acting more as a protest group calling for more spending. Unsurprisingly he didn’t say which group CAST are in, but he did venture that those in the second group would become irrelevant!! seriouslyred would be amused, I’m sure. I like Charlie. He clearly says what he thinks. 

Strategically, it’s now very clear where SE7 stands. While we are in League One it appears that we’ll spend up to, but not beyond the SCMP limits, i.e. 60% of turnover, though Methven did stress that this limit does not include U21s (except for loan players) and that this was a major advantage for Charlton and an important reason why GFP found the club attractive. It also explains why we have so many youngsters in the First Team squad. Methven explained this meant there was more money to spend on a smaller number of more experienced players. 

This will become even more relevant if and when the club is promoted to the Championship. Methven is clearly making a bet that the financial landscape in the Championship is going to become much less hostile so that it will be possible to compete without the need for crippling losses. It is ironic that this was Duchatelet’s vision too and it was the insane abandonment of any serious financial discipline in the Championship which killed any ambition he might have had. It’s now clear that there is a risk of history repeating itself. GFP have not signed up to the madhouse so we’ll need to hope Methven is right about reform. 

Anyway, as I said, I highly recommended the podcast. 

PS The podcast is available on Apple Podcasts and I’m sure on other platforms too. 

The jury is certainly out on our current squad until we see five to ten games. But hopefully more and more fans are opening their eyes to the strategy behind the decisions we have seen. Listening to the podcast tells us Methven's perception of both the timing and reality of imminent changes to the EFL landscape. And his estimate of an additional £200M of EPL funding to the EFL which equates to £7M per Championship club (not in receipt of parachute monies) tells us how he sees "CAFC operating losses reducing to £1-2M".

We all saw Ness and Maynard-Brewer promoted to the first team within days of SE7 arrival last Christmas whilst those they replaced were loaned out or sold. This was repeated over the summer with Anderson and Asiimwe meaning that Academy lads make about 40% of the appearances - double what we saw before. Not only does that reduce the wage bill and also means eight U21 Academy players in the squad. In turn CAFC requires "just" 17 non Academy players required for the squad who are subject to the SCMP 60% of revenue limits.

The changes to date certainly set us up for a push next season. To enhance the wage bill and the headroom available to further improve the squad the SMT need to:
- improve commercial revenue and gates - 60% of another £2M could make a significant difference especially for EPL loans
- drive for a cup run too - as this excites the fanbase and provides revenue without changing the cost base
- improve the coaching especially at set pieces - obvious but necessary
- and improve sports science / fitness so that players improve... same cost base for better performances

Scott, Appleton and others can then identify gaps which require filling next summer. And at the same time release more players who won't assist promotion efforts next season.

And if everything goes to plan then perhaps the SMT can convince the investors to inject more equity to get us over the line in May 2024? Then again big bids will probably come in for Leaburn at some point in 2024.

WRT CASTrust and various anti SE7 commentators on CL, we know the history of this nostalgic pessimism. And we know that they rarely bother to look at the actual football decisions, let alone the wider football finance landscape. Hence their incredulity at the Holden sacking when that was so obviously a rational response to August performances.

Ideally Appleton will demonstrate that the squad has real potential. But let's not expect the Trust nor the old guard to change their perspective. Instead Methven, Scott and others will simply ignore and direct their messaging at the fan base. The football and the associated narrative doesn't require translation, let alone distortion!

[aaronaldo]

Listened to this podcast on my dog walks today. Really interesting I thought and explains a lot about our 'issues' during this transfer window. Slightly alarming that we are over the 60% revenue spending threshold, considering the number of academy players we have in the squad.

It really puts perspective onto the importance of generating revenue going forwards. I wonder what ways the new owners are looking to achieve that, beyond the improving performance on the field (we hope).

The indepentant regulation is happening. There are going to be massive changes in the coming years. The fact that we're planning for these already is a good thing. www.gov.uk/government/news/government-outlines-preferred-structure-of-new-independent-football-regulator

I have to say, the more I find out about our new owners the more I feel like we're in good hands. They are long term thinkers and their strategy is longer term. Some fans might not like that, but as SR says, these will likely be ignored by our SMT etc as they implement their long term plans.

I said a while back that I felt we were building for next season and I think this is becoming more and more likely, especially considering the challenges we've had with moving on certain players.

[leedsaddick]

This podcast is very good and gives a really good insight to the Football landscape at a macro level. I was pleased to hear that Premier League Clubs will start to trickle down their wealth thorugh the pyramid and that in terms of overall Football Club finances there are moves to have a level playing field in terms of percentage of turnover allocated to playing staff, as opposed to opening the cheque book and hoovering up talent.

CM, comes accross really well and has a really good grasp of the macto landscape and what it means for a business/cost model going forward which I think will benefit CAFC and in many respects I see CAFC being a little bit ahead of the game when it comes to being a self sustaining entity... For fans, the paradigm change that will need to take place is to get used to the idea that there will be a reliance to develop and grow your own players ( SE London is a hot bed of talent) rather than expensive tansfers... This will mean that we will be spending a little more time in League 1

[cedric]

I have listened to the podcasts and thoroughly enjoyed them. I think Charlie comes across very well and very eloquent- for all the Sunderland talk about him I do rather think that they are now in a much better place and if that happens to us I will be fine with that. A lot of what he said about football from an organisational and fiscal point of view also makes a lot of sense.
Hopefully the long term plans for CAFC come to fruition and we profit from a more fiscally prudent game. I do hope that clubs like Derby County and Sheffield Wednesday receive much sterner sanctions than they have under new guidelines too.

[aaronaldo]

www.charltonafc.com/news/methven-new-independent-football-regulator In case anyone wants to read rather than listen

[seriouslyred]

Sept 13, 2023 13:40:47 GMT leedsaddick said:

This podcast is very good and gives a really good insight to the Football landscape at a macro level. I was pleased to hear that Premier League Clubs will start to trickle down their wealth thorugh the pyramid and that in terms of overall Football Club finances there are moves to have a level playing field in terms of percentage of turnover allocated to playing staff, as opposed to opening the cheque book and hoovering up talent.

CM, comes accross really well and has a really good grasp of the macto landscape and what it means for a business/cost model going forward which I think will benefit CAFC and in many respects I see CAFC being a little bit ahead of the game when it comes to being a self sustaining entity... For fans, the paradigm change that will need to take place is to get used to the idea that there will be a reliance to develop and grow your own players ( SE London is a hot bed of talent) rather than expensive tansfers... This will mean that we will be spending a little more time in League 1

So glad that you and others appreciate Methven broadcasting his understanding of the EFL "macro" landscape and how CAFC fits. Elsewhere one can see some fans open to ideas whilst others are thoroughly blinkered.

It is what it is.

What we need is to watch the next few games, see how the squad develops, and ideally see gates and commercial revenues grow as we climb the table.

[leedsaddick]

Sept 13, 2023 16:38:24 GMT seriouslyred said:

Sept 13, 2023 13:40:47 GMT leedsaddick said:

This podcast is very good and gives a really good insight to the Football landscape at a macro level. I was pleased to hear that Premier League Clubs will start to trickle down their wealth thorugh the pyramid and that in terms of overall Football Club finances there are moves to have a level playing field in terms of percentage of turnover allocated to playing staff, as opposed to opening the cheque book and hoovering up talent.

CM, comes accross really well and has a really good grasp of the macto landscape and what it means for a business/cost model going forward which I think will benefit CAFC and in many respects I see CAFC being a little bit ahead of the game when it comes to being a self sustaining entity... For fans, the paradigm change that will need to take place is to get used to the idea that there will be a reliance to develop and grow your own players ( SE London is a hot bed of talent) rather than expensive tansfers... This will mean that we will be spending a little more time in League 1

So glad that you and others appreciate Methven broadcasting his understanding of the EFL "macro" landscape and how CAFC fits. Elsewhere one can see some fans open to ideas whilst others are thoroughly blinkered.

It is what it is.

What we need is to watch the next few games, see how the squad develops, and ideally see gates and commercial revenues grow as we climb the table.

Many thanks for your comments on my post…I appreciate it… I want to build on your point on growing commercial revenues… one area that I think needs to be addressed is growing the next generation of fans, and improving every touch point that a fan could have… other industries call this the customer journey… I think the principal is very relevant in this commercial context and transferable to growing and maintaining the fan base…

[Mundell]

Sept 13, 2023 18:56:49 GMT leedsaddick said:

Sept 13, 2023 16:38:24 GMT seriouslyred said:

So glad that you and others appreciate Methven broadcasting his understanding of the EFL "macro" landscape and how CAFC fits. Elsewhere one can see some fans open to ideas whilst others are thoroughly blinkered.

It is what it is.

What we need is to watch the next few games, see how the squad develops, and ideally see gates and commercial revenues grow as we climb the table.

Many thanks for your comments on my post…I appreciate it… I want to build on your point on growing commercial revenues… one area that I think needs to be addressed is growing the next generation of fans, and improving every touch point that a fan could have… other industries call this the customer journey… I think the principal is very relevant in this commercial context and transferable to growing and maintaining the fan base…

Methven touches on this in one of the first two podcasts. It’s probably the one with the title “Why Would Anyone Buy a Football Club”, but I can’t be sure. Anyway, he clearly thinks the traditional view of fandom (i.e. kids are taken to see the local team by their Granddad around the age of eight and then turn up every Saturday afternoon come hell or high water) is ancient history with younger people ‘consuming’ football in new and different ways.

It’s not at all clear what this means or what he has in mind, but perhaps ACA Football Partners might have a role to play here? Whatever the plan might be, my guess is that SE7 won’t be afraid to innovate in their ambition to modernise and progress the club. In my view experimentation is a relatively free hit and might be transformational. I just hope the management team aren’t overwhelmed by the debilitating cynicism of the traditionalists and nostalgic pessimists. 

[reamsofverse]

Just listened to this and the first thing that comes to mind are the idiots who kept playing the same record on here that the owners are potless because they were not spending any money! Squareball springs to mind. Rather apt that he has gone to join the delusionals over on Plumb's forum.

[seriouslyred]

Sept 13, 2023 19:45:40 GMT Mundell said:

Sept 13, 2023 18:56:49 GMT leedsaddick said:

Many thanks for your comments on my post…I appreciate it… I want to build on your point on growing commercial revenues… one area that I think needs to be addressed is growing the next generation of fans, and improving every touch point that a fan could have… other industries call this the customer journey… I think the principal is very relevant in this commercial context and transferable to growing and maintaining the fan base…

Methven touches on this in one of the first two podcasts. It’s probably the one with the title “Why Would Anyone Buy a Football Club”, but I can’t be sure. Anyway, he clearly thinks the traditional view of fandom (i.e. kids are taken to see the local team by their Granddad around the age of eight and then turn up every Saturday afternoon come hell or high water) is ancient history with younger people ‘consuming’ football in new and different ways.

It’s not at all clear what this means or what he has in mind, but perhaps ACA Football Partners might have a role to play here? Whatever the plan might be, my guess is that SE7 won’t be afraid to innovate in their ambition to modernise and progress the club. In my view experimentation is a relatively free hit and might be transformational. I just hope the management team aren’t overwhelmed by the debilitating cynicism of the traditionalists and nostalgic pessimists. 

Thanks for the thanks leedsaddick

Highly recommend "Welcome to Wrexham" which casts some fans as actors on the stage - game changer! Their team's failure at the death two seasons running is pure box office.

Add two A listers to build a global audience of five million on all social media. Perhaps 15-25% heavily vested? Who knows what the revenues are for streams and merchandise.

Some naysayers dictate the plan will fail. As in 2019 we can juxtapose this message with thousands of fans walking down Wembley Way 😀

Perhaps Methven arranges reality TV for next season. Today would be somewhat brutal! We can but imagine language and atmosphere between kick off at Oxford and the final whistle at The Valley a week later!

[weststandfruitloop]

Sept 13, 2023 19:45:40 GMT Mundell said:

Methven touches on this in one of the first two podcasts. It’s probably the one with the title “Why Would Anyone Buy a Football Club”, but I can’t be sure. Anyway, he clearly thinks the traditional view of fandom (i.e. kids are taken to see the local team by their Granddad around the age of eight and then turn up every Saturday afternoon come hell or high water) is ancient history with younger people ‘consuming’ football in new and different ways.

I haven't listened to the podcasts but it's interesting he makes that point. I've always found people who support the same football team as their parents to be a bit weird personally. No offence, but surely the whole point of growing up is to rebel and having the same hobby or affiliation as your folks is the opposite of that? I appreciate that quite a lot of people when I was growing up did support the same club as their folks, but each new generation is more independent minded and niche in its consumerism than the next so that is of course dissipating over time.

It does throw up two big issues though. How do kids get to go to games without their parents in the current nanny state environment? I grew up in the 80s and could happily make trips of hundreds of miles on my own in my early-teens to watch football. Yet today most clubs don't admit unaccompanied under-16s (check the websites - most EFL clubs won't even let you buy an U16 ticket without an adult/guardian ticket). So how do kids today even get into games without an older relative, sibling or whoever?

Secondarily, those who support clubs through family tradition tend to include the more doormat-like elements. By which I mean the people who will still buy STs, attend games and cheer on the team no matter how shit and/or generally evil the ownership are. Fans who have chosen which team to support for themselves are going to be quicker to boycott or start following a non-league team instead. That's going to make life increasingly tough for poor owners, which is surely a good thing? For the clubs but not the bad owners. Hmmmm.

[seriouslyred]

Sept 13, 2023 20:50:16 GMT weststandfruitloop said:

Sept 13, 2023 19:45:40 GMT Mundell said:

Methven touches on this in one of the first two podcasts. It’s probably the one with the title “Why Would Anyone Buy a Football Club”, but I can’t be sure. Anyway, he clearly thinks the traditional view of fandom (i.e. kids are taken to see the local team by their Granddad around the age of eight and then turn up every Saturday afternoon come hell or high water) is ancient history with younger people ‘consuming’ football in new and different ways.

I haven't listened to the podcasts but it's interesting he makes that point. I've always found people who support the same football team as their parents to be a bit weird personally. No offence, but surely the whole point of growing up is to rebel and having the same hobby or affiliation as your folks is the opposite of that? I appreciate that quite a lot of people when I was growing up did support the same club as their folks, but each new generation is more independent minded and niche in its consumerism than the next so that is of course dissipating over time.

It does throw up two big issues though. How do kids get to go to games without their parents in the current nanny state environment? I grew up in the 80s and could happily make trips of hundreds of miles on my own in my early-teens to watch football. Yet today most clubs don't admit unaccompanied under-16s (check the websites - most EFL clubs won't even let you buy an U16 ticket without an adult/guardian ticket). So how do kids today even get into games without an older relative, sibling or whoever?

Secondarily, those who support clubs through family tradition tend to include the more doormat-like elements. By which I mean the people who will still buy STs, attend games and cheer on the team no matter how shit and/or generally evil the ownership are. Fans who have chosen which team to support for themselves are going to be quicker to boycott or start following a non-league team instead. That's going to make life increasingly tough for poor owners, which is surely a good thing? For the clubs but not the bad owners. Hmmmm.

A large portion of the population will work, live and die within a few miles of where they were born. Loyal to local traditions and sporting allegiances. Of that portion, some will be active fans - but not many, especially given the catchment area population of SE London and Kent.

And those moving into an area are likely to attach themselves to a local club if they love football. Some of us even return after a decade or more elsewhere.

Our lived experiences and other factors all shape which of three choices we might make regarding our club:
- walk away
- blind faith in the management
- embrace the chaos / enjoy the journey

And yes we might also attempt to induct our kids into all things family...

youtu.be/P6zaCV4niKk?si=9Wm5tgeuF4PmUePF

The kids go to games when younger, then leave the nest... and some return.

[anthony55]

Listened to the podcast and Methven speaks well.
But so does Scott.
They are both very polished when it comes to sitting in front of a camera, proper PR men.
For me though I remain to be fully convinced.
Actions speak louder than words.
I shall hold back my opinion on these two and see how things unfold going forward before deciding what I think of them both and how they are doing regarding running our club.

[aaronaldo]

Sept 14, 2023 6:55:01 GMT anthony55 said:

Listened to the podcast and Methven speaks well.
But so does Scott.
They are both very polished when it comes to sitting in front of a camera, proper PR men.
For me though I remain to be fully convinced.
Actions speak louder than words.
I shall hold back my opinion on these two and see how things unfold going forward before deciding what I think of them both and how they are doing regarding running our club.

I think it's a bit harsh to just say they are PR men, although understand you reserving judgement. I feel the same. We need to see improvements on the field, but this is unlikely to be instant. It's going to take time.

The new SMT will need time to resolve long standing issues and implement their vision for the club. It amazes me how some fans have already decided (been influenced imo) that the new owners are bad news and anything Methven touches is doomed.

I think next summers transfer window will show what our intentions are. Appreciate that's a long way off, but we've had our hands tied behind our backs for this window. Transfers can take months of prep before the window and that wasn't possible this time round.

[earlpurple]

I listened to the podcast last night.

He mentioned that this started in the summer of 2019 and we obviously know why - that was the summer that Bury went under, and Bolton Wanderers also nearly did.

That was also the summer that we had just got promoted by Roland Duchatalet didn't want to budget for a £13m loss and gave us a lower budget to work with. Had we been less unlucky with injuries we might have stayed up but it's been waiting to explode for a long time. But remember too that Bury had also just got promoted and their fans were looking forward to a season in League One. Instead they didn't have a team to watch.

Was MK Dons' summer of 2021 a "boom or bust" attempt? When they failed in the playoffs they couldn't cope the following season, cut the budget drastically and got relegated? Maybe the same happened at Scunthorpe who after 2 consecutive seasons in the playoffs, got relegated and now are not even in the National League, as they got relegated from that too.

He mentioned about using the stadium as an asset to secure the loans, but didn't mention how our ground had been separated from the club.

[steve2707]

I don't think we should get too excited by the Premier League plan to "fix" things, before regulation.

The money that they spent in the last transfer window on transfers, is more than 40 times more than they pay the 92+ clubs in the professional game below them, IN A YEAR...

[kings hill addick]

I've listened to the first two, and half of the third podcast. I agree that Methven comes across well - he would do he was educated at Eaton and they all learn to speak well as a matter of course.

I agree with most of the comments above, especially Mundell's about how Methven and his cohorts are 'gambling' on new rules controlling spending in the Championship to 70% of turnover on player wages, opposed to making an average loss of c. £13m a season.

I have some reservations as to if the Premier League will, realistically, give up much more of the money they generate. I'm also not sure that it is fair to expect them do so. The huge worldwide audiences tune in to watch the football because it is the best (arguably) in the world, but that is only because they can afford the best players. If the Premier League gives half of it's money away it's only a matter of time before the product on offer will be inferior. I also have an issue with the marketability of, say Man Utd, funding journeymen players in League One earning c. £10k a week.

I, like others, have some concerns about the parachute payments but all clubs are going to do their best to be promoted in their first season down - that's usually the best chance they have. The stats that clubs with parachute payments getting way more points that those without seems to forget that the clubs that come down already have better players. The bookies always fancy the relegated clubs to be top of the division each season - even in leagues where there is little or no money. I'm not sure that the benefit of stopping the parachute payments outweighs the risk of administration to clubs that come down and can't offload enough players.

We don't want to make relegation, from the Premier League, spell instant doom for any club, but I don't, personally, see an acceptable solution to it.

I do have an issue with the fact that as the clubs get more and more money they just give more and more to players and agents. For that reason, there will never be a point at which the EFL clubs don't keep demanding more money. The solution has to come from them spending less.

One think that they didn't talk about which I, immediately, thought of is that if the SCMP does come into effect throughout the whole EFL, players salaries, outside of the Premier League, are going to fall drastically. If the wages being paid to McGrandles (who was signed on a free transfer) and Kirk (who was a 'marquee' signing) have played a large part in us hitting the 60% of turnover - based in London with way above average gates (for the division) - the days of those kind of wages are soon to be long gone. Ignoring the fact that those two players have contributed little, with us having so many young players (who are not included in the calculation), it is clear that their wages are not sustainable in our division. I have seen nothing to make me believe that either of them are good enough to play for a club in a higher division, with a much higher turnover.

I guess this means that both of them, and Aneke, will be on our payroll for another two years - even if we loan them out we will be paying a significant proportion of their wages.

I don't want to cut anyone's income but it is clear that all the while clubs are loosing millions each season the players are, just, being paid too much. Limiting it to turnover is a, virtually, guaranteed way to being those numbers down.

If Methven is right and the spending is going to be, properly, limited then they are, clearly, going to have a head start on the competition. If, however, nothing much is going to change then we are going to be in this division for a very long time.

[earlpurple]

I'd like to see them get rid of parachute payments, or reduce them completely. It gives these teams an unfair advantage. And I know it's based on the fact you have players on high salaries but a reduced income, but clubs should put relegation clauses into contracts.

It's obvious once they put in controls, player salaries in general will have to come down.

[earlpurple]

Sept 14, 2023 11:48:36 GMT kings hill addick said:

I have some reservations as to if the Premier League will, realistically, give up much more of the money they generate. I'm also not sure that it is fair to expect them do so. The huge worldwide audiences tune in to watch the football because it is the best (arguably) in the world, but that is only because they can afford the best players. If the Premier League gives half of it's money away it's only a matter of time before the product on offer will be inferior. I also have an issue with the marketability of, say Man Utd, funding journeymen players in League One earning c. £10k a week.

There will be limitations on all teams playing in UEFA run competitions, so not just the Premier League but also Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga etc.

The Premier League has been well marketed and going from what was a big 4 to a big 6 and now maybe a big 7 means there are far more games played between two "big" teams. So Liverpool playing Arsenal or Spurs playing Manchester United will generate interest around the world.

In Spain there will always be a big interest in El Classico when Barcelona play Real Madrid, and maybe a couple of other Spanish clubs can get "interest" but probably less and the fewer "big" competitive clubs, the less likely that they have an "interesting" fixture.

The question is whether the changes will make our clubs still competitive in European competition and what affect that will have. I'd hope that if the other European clubs have to play under the same rules, they will not have a particularly competitive advantage over ours, and if our league generates more TV revenue we still have a head start.

The whole thing has gone mad, but yes it's escalated a lot via players getting over the top salaries - not just the top ones but a lot of them. In the UK it's been hurt even more by Brexit reducing the pool of players in the lower leagues. During Covid there was a whole season of lost gate revenue in clubs.

[somerton]

So Metheven is relying on moving U21 into the squad to keep down the recurrent cost of the squad of players. So what happens when those u21 in the squad are no longer u21.
Relying on the academy to produce say 3 or 4 first team capable players every season is not likely. We have all seen it when academies go through what might be called a drought period in brining players on.

[clarky]

Sept 14, 2023 12:10:57 GMT somerton said:

So Metheven is relying on moving U21 into the squad to keep down the recurrent cost of the squad of players. So what happens when those u21 in the squad are no longer u21.
Relying on the academy to produce say 3 or 4 first team capable players every season is not likely. We have all seen it when academies go through what might be called a drought period in brining players on.

It won't be workable every season but whilst we have the likes of Aneke and Kirk on the books who are on high wages it is probably necessary. 
Interestingly. we are currently in contract negotiations with the agents of CBT and Dobson who will both command higher salaries if they are to sign and as we have already overstretched our limit I hope the equity injection letter "our owner" (his description not mine) has written to the efl covers this or he may be writing another apologetic letter soon.

[aaronaldo]

Sept 14, 2023 12:47:40 GMT clarky said:

Sept 14, 2023 12:10:57 GMT somerton said:

So Metheven is relying on moving U21 into the squad to keep down the recurrent cost of the squad of players. So what happens when those u21 in the squad are no longer u21.
Relying on the academy to produce say 3 or 4 first team capable players every season is not likely. We have all seen it when academies go through what might be called a drought period in brining players on.

It won't be workable every season but whilst we have the likes of Aneke and Kirk on the books who are on high wages it is probably necessary. 
Interestingly. we are currently in contract negotiations with the agents of CBT and Dobson who will both command higher salaries if they are to sign and as we have already overstretched our limit I hope the equity injection letter "our owner" (his description not mine) has written to the efl covers this or he may be writing another apologetic letter soon.

His comment about being the owner was pretty much all the focus elsewhere. He is techincally an owner and it's literally his job to be the liaison between the SMT and the majority owners. He's acting on behalf of them with their agreement. I wish people would just step away and think before just seeing "Methven" and losing it as they dislike him due to a Netflix series.

Happy that Dobson is in contract negotiations. Ok with CBT. I hope the likes of Kanu and others are being looked at too.

You raise an interesting point though. If we are at the limit already, did the owners invest enough to cover these increases? Hopefully they did and/or know this is coming down the line and are prepared for it.

[somerton]

Sept 14, 2023 13:02:30 GMT aaronaldo said:

Sept 14, 2023 12:47:40 GMT clarky said:

It won't be workable every season but whilst we have the likes of Aneke and Kirk on the books who are on high wages it is probably necessary. 
Interestingly. we are currently in contract negotiations with the agents of CBT and Dobson who will both command higher salaries if they are to sign and as we have already overstretched our limit I hope the equity injection letter "our owner" (his description not mine) has written to the efl covers this or he may be writing another apologetic letter soon.

His comment about being the owner was pretty much all the focus elsewhere. He is techincally an owner and it's literally his job to be the liaison between the SMT and the majority owners. He's acting on behalf of them with their agreement. I wish people would just step away and think before just seeing "Methven" and losing it as they dislike him due to a Netflix series.

Happy that Dobson is in contract negotiations. Ok with CBT. I hope the likes of Kanu and others are being looked at too.

You raise an interesting point though. If we are at the limit already, did the owners invest enough to cover these increases? Hopefully they did and/or know this is coming down the line and are prepared for it.

[somerton]

So we will have to sell Leaburn tocover thevincreased costs of Dobson and CBT in January.

[aaronaldo]

Sept 14, 2023 13:25:23 GMT somerton said:

So we will have to sell Leaburn tocover thevincreased costs of Dobson and CBT in January.

I don't think anyone is saying that

[clarky]

Sept 14, 2023 13:02:30 GMT aaronaldo said:

Sept 14, 2023 12:47:40 GMT clarky said:

It won't be workable every season but whilst we have the likes of Aneke and Kirk on the books who are on high wages it is probably necessary. 
Interestingly. we are currently in contract negotiations with the agents of CBT and Dobson who will both command higher salaries if they are to sign and as we have already overstretched our limit I hope the equity injection letter "our owner" (his description not mine) has written to the efl covers this or he may be writing another apologetic letter soon.

His comment about being the owner was pretty much all the focus elsewhere. He is techincally an owner and it's literally his job to be the liaison between the SMT and the majority owners. He's acting on behalf of them with their agreement. I wish people would just step away and think before just seeing "Methven" and losing it as they dislike him due to a Netflix series.

Happy that Dobson is in contract negotiations. Ok with CBT. I hope the likes of Kanu and others are being looked at too.

You raise an interesting point though. If we are at the limit already, did the owners invest enough to cover these increases? Hopefully they did and/or know this is coming down the line and are prepared for it.

Perhaps, considering the distrust for him, largely from elsewhere, he should step back and think before making a statement as he also says "my investors" and not the or majority investors. Incidentally, I have never watched or intend to watch the Netflix series but have read a number of scathing comments from Sunderland supporters. Now they may well be wrong and the past doesn't matter only the future but we were scathing about Thomas and I don't think we were wrong. 
Anyway only time will tell how things pan out and I fully appreciate the new owners need to clear up the mess left behind before they/we can truly progress. And despite some of my negative comments I am still in the optimistic camp, but only just!

[somerton]

Sept 14, 2023 13:26:44 GMT aaronaldo said:

Sept 14, 2023 13:25:23 GMT somerton said:

So we will have to sell Leaburn tocover thevincreased costs of Dobson and CBT in January.

I don't think anyone is saying that

Except that is a consequence of the Metheven business plan if they are to stick to their budgets.

[DFT]

Sept 14, 2023 13:25:23 GMT somerton said:

So we will have to sell Leaburn tocover thevincreased costs of Dobson and CBT in January.

How did you reach that conclusion?