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Post by kings hill addick on May 18, 2023 14:14:37 GMT
Without getting involved in the rights or wrongs of gambling, why would the authorities issue a ban for, as in this case, eight months when the player is scheduled to play just two games in the next 87 days - 12 weeks and 3 days. So his ban covers his summer holiday, and as he cannot train with his team mates until 17th September he can have a nice long break in the sun before coming back to his own 'pre-season' training in October to be ready for playing again in January.
Surely the ban should have started on the first day of the new season?
Even if the player doesn't receive any income during that time (which I find unlikely) it still doesn't look like the same punishment as if the committee has met to hand out the ban in August.
Is this a cheat way to make the ban look more serious, and are they setting a precedent that ensures that all, future, bans have to fall over the close season?
With a ban of 243 days, or 157 excluding the close season, with 232 breaches of the rules it doesn't seem like a very significant punishment.
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Post by aaronaldo on May 18, 2023 16:36:17 GMT
Surely the ban should have started on the first day of the new season? 100%. Basically just a holiday as you say. I bet he's not having his pay stopped! |
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Post by manikin on May 18, 2023 17:06:33 GMT
He's a lucky lad, Tony Kay one of the best centre halves in the country got a life time ban for one bet, back in the 1960s.
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Post by earlpurple on May 18, 2023 17:39:47 GMT
They probably considered the summer break in making it 8 months, so in reality it's 6 months.
I don't know what the particular bets were, but I guess it would have been "match-fixing" if it involved the team he was playing for at the time to not get a favourable result, such that he could sabotage the team's performance.
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Post by smudge7946 on May 18, 2023 19:50:27 GMT
232 bets in 7 years. That's about three bets a month.
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Post by kings hill addick on May 18, 2023 21:03:15 GMT
232 bets in 7 years. That's about three bets a month. And your point is? |
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Post by garrynelson on May 18, 2023 22:00:57 GMT
232 bets in 7 years. That's about three bets a month. And your point is? It’s a lot |
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Post by bigandy99 on May 18, 2023 22:05:32 GMT
No sympathy.. he knew the rules about betting… he shouldn’t be paid, in my opinion..
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Post by smudge7946 on May 18, 2023 22:45:27 GMT
232 bets in 7 years. That's about three bets a month. And your point is? He's not the gambling addiction some are portraying him as. |
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Post by smudge7946 on May 18, 2023 22:46:22 GMT
No sympathy.. he knew the rules about betting… he shouldn’t be paid, in my opinion.. I dint think Brentford are contractly obliged to pay him. |
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Post by bigandy99 on May 19, 2023 16:13:22 GMT
No sympathy.. he knew the rules about betting… he shouldn’t be paid, in my opinion.. I dint think Brentford are contractly obliged to pay him. But you know they will.. |
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Post by cafcjack83 on May 19, 2023 16:16:05 GMT
I dint think Brentford are contractly obliged to pay him. But you know they will.. There's talks of extending his contract too |
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Post by se7sm on May 19, 2023 16:38:36 GMT
I can guarantee you, he was doing more than three bits of month them football bets are very addictive . Probably only the tip of the iceberg
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Post by se7sm on May 19, 2023 16:42:13 GMT
Had a few beers don’t take any notice of spelling 😂😂
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Post by Nights on May 19, 2023 19:30:19 GMT
That’s including the off season. So will be even higher if you only do the maths for the season - more like 4 per month. Much have been placing a bet every weekend! Would be interested in the stake he was placing. |
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Post by Nights on May 19, 2023 19:31:18 GMT
Had a few beers don’t take any notice of spelling 😂😂 Know the feeling 😂 |
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Post by smudge7946 on May 21, 2023 7:22:28 GMT
I can guarantee you, he was doing more than three bits of month them football bets are very addictive . Probably only the tip of the iceberg The authorities forensically analysed his betting for 18 months. |
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Post by se7sm on May 21, 2023 11:09:37 GMT
That’s interesting to know , wonder how they did that did they have access to he’s bank account to see how many different betting accounts he had?
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Post by smudge7946 on May 22, 2023 6:39:39 GMT
That’s interesting to know , wonder how they did that did they have access to he’s bank account to see how many different betting accounts he had? They probably had direct dealings with the betting companies, or it could be a Siggardson situation where team mates reported him. |
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Post by Mundell on May 22, 2023 8:46:25 GMT
Without knowing more about the nature of the bets he made, it’s hard to know whether Toney’s punishment fits the crime. Was he an innocent idiot who broke the rules, but did no harm, or fundamentally dishonest and using ‘inside information’ (or manipulation) for personal gain?
If it’s the latter, then he’s lucky he’s going to be able to play again. If the former, which I strongly suspect is the case, then he might wonder why he’s been treated so harshly compared with relevant precedents.
For example, in January 2021, Kieran Trippier was banned for just 10 weeks after telling a friend to “lump on” his reported transfer from Tottenham Hotspur to Atletico Madrid. That’s fundamentally dishonest and clearly a serious rule breach. Likewise, Daniel Sturridge was banned for four months having instructed his brother to bet on a possible move to Spanish side Sevilla, giving him inside information during the January 2018 transfer window.
From my perspective, these are much more serious offences than betting on the result of, say, Notts County v Wrexham, when you’re playing for Brentford in the Premier League, even though this is clearly against the rules and should receive a punishment of some kind.
At the other end of the spectrum, Lincoln City defender Bradley Wood was banned for six years in 2018 after intentionally picking up two yellow cards in their FA Cup run that season.
Wood didn’t have a leg to stand on. What he did was unforgivable, but there’s an obvious lack of consistency here. It’s also worth remembering that English football is awash with clubs owned by individuals who made their fortunes in the betting industry, including Brentford, and with sponsors from that same industry. I have the SkyBet app on my phone. Etc.
It’s clear that the FA’s rules have nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of gambling per se. They are clearly designed to address the clear conflict of interest that sometimes exists if a player bets on a match or competition in which he (or she) is directly involved and/or to prevent the use of inside information. While he broke the rules, and deserves to be punished, it appears that Toney did neither of these things and this surely ought to have been relevant when his punishment was determined and relevant precedents considered?
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Post by smudge7946 on May 24, 2023 16:03:30 GMT
Ivan must have a good agent and PR machine behind him. They are doing a great job of making poor Ivan as the poor ickle victim.
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Post by aaronaldo on May 26, 2023 9:46:21 GMT
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Post by ExeterAddick on May 26, 2023 10:12:17 GMT
I don't really have an issue with footballers betting on other games, but putting money on matches they're involved in is a huge red flag. IMO his ban could've been longer.
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Post by se7sm on May 26, 2023 10:55:02 GMT
Oh dear worse than I thought betting against your team , very lucky not to be banned full stop . Bet That’s going down well in the dressing room.
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Post by Mundell on May 26, 2023 11:05:27 GMT
Thanks for sharing that aaronaldo I agree entirely and my own observation above was clearly based on incomplete information. As ExeterAddick has said, it now appears he’s got off quite lightly. He’s also lucky that his initial failure to come clean seems not to have counted against him. |
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Post by kings hill addick on May 26, 2023 11:09:01 GMT
Yeah, some of those look bad. The betting on himself to score when he knew he was playing but the Bookies didn't looks very immoral.
Betting on your own team removes the question marks about why shouldn't a footballer, in the Championship, bet on a game in China?
If the chap has a problem with gambling then he should be getting professional help - especially with the money in football (his salary could pay for it as could the club that stands to benefit from him playing, or being sold).
I'm not sure that is is justification for a more lenient punishment, personally, but I wasn't consulted so my view is irrelevant.
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Post by manikin on May 26, 2023 11:15:47 GMT
As I said before very lucky lad and Southgate should keep his thoughts to himself.
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Post by aaronaldo on May 26, 2023 13:01:58 GMT
Yeah, some of those look bad. The betting on himself to score when he knew he was playing but the Bookies didn't looks very immoral. Betting on your own team removes the question marks about why shouldn't a footballer, in the Championship, bet on a game in China? If the chap has a problem with gambling then he should be getting professional help - especially with the money in football (his salary could pay for it as could the club that stands to benefit from him playing, or being sold). I'm not sure that is is justification for a more lenient punishment, personally, but I wasn't consulted so my view is irrelevant. Money isn't necessarily that relevant in terms of admitting you're a gambler that needs help. I doubt he'd be worried about paying for help. He was likely more worried about admitting it and it becoming public knowledge. Betting on his team is not a good look and especially on himself to score etc. However, he wasn't betting on his team losing when he was playing. So they must have taken that into consideration. I tend to agree he got off lightly. My comment on "it make more sense" was the fact that they had a bigger punishment but lowered it after the assessment that he does genuinely have a gambling issue. I'm not saying the bigger punishment was enough in the first place. Hard to say really. I don't remember a similar case. How do you weigh up this sort of punishment? How does it compare to being racist? Biting another player? It's not easy.. |
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Post by kings hill addick on May 26, 2023 13:40:45 GMT
Yeah, some of those look bad. The betting on himself to score when he knew he was playing but the Bookies didn't looks very immoral. Betting on your own team removes the question marks about why shouldn't a footballer, in the Championship, bet on a game in China? If the chap has a problem with gambling then he should be getting professional help - especially with the money in football (his salary could pay for it as could the club that stands to benefit from him playing, or being sold). I'm not sure that is is justification for a more lenient punishment, personally, but I wasn't consulted so my view is irrelevant. Money isn't necessarily that relevant in terms of admitting you're a gambler that needs help. I doubt he'd be worried about paying for help. He was likely more worried about admitting it and it becoming public knowledge. Betting on his team is not a good look and especially on himself to score etc. However, he wasn't betting on his team losing when he was playing. So they must have taken that into consideration. I tend to agree he got off lightly. My comment on "it make more sense" was the fact that they had a bigger punishment but lowered it after the assessment that he does genuinely have a gambling issue. I'm not saying the bigger punishment was enough in the first place. Hard to say really. I don't remember a similar case. How do you weigh up this sort of punishment? How does it compare to being racist? Biting another player? It's not easy.. I agree it’s not easy. The other things that you mentioned are criminal as well as rule breaking in football. My worry, and it is not necessarily the case here, is that if we do have a serious issue with players manipulating the game for their own ends, and less concerned with just winning or playing well then it can raise questions about the integrity of the games themselves. If that were to become widespread in the game then we might as well disband the league(s) as we can’t have people paying to watch sporting events when some of the participants are not trying to win but manipulating the event for betting reasons. I read about a Southampton game where there was a spread bet on the first throw-in. I guess that doesn’t, really, matter but what if there is a bet on a red/yellow card and/or an own goal? Suddenly it becomes more serious if players could be ‘encouraged’ to manipulate the odds and/or make things happen that might affect the sporting integrity. As I say, there is no suggestion that Toney did that but I do think it’s necessary that the authorities make it clear that the punishment will be significant. |
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Post by se7sm on May 26, 2023 13:43:35 GMT
Can’t agree more , 8months off on full pay🤔
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