Confused by the handball rule?

[Mundell]

Well I certainly am. In several decades of watching football I’ve never been so mystified by so many refereeing decisions as I have been about the application of the handball rule since the introduction of VAR. To be clear, this has nothing to do with VAR per se. As I see it, VAR has simply been the catalyst for widespread confusion about how the law should be interpreted. 

Anyway, the reason for the post is that I found this article in today’s Times  quite useful, especially Peter Walton’s flowchart. 

I found it quite reassuring that Walton believes that Trent Alexander Arnold handled the ball in the build up to Liverpool’s opening goal at Leeds on Monday night. Of course he did!! However, having read Walton’s explanation I’m even more bemused by the decision on the night. Given that the VAR had every opportunity to look at the incident, how could a goal possibly be given?! I know he’s biased, but I’m also puzzled that Jamie Carragher could have imagined the decision could have gone either way. For me, his reaction simply highlighted how muddled we’ve all become. 

There is a wonderfully ironic line in the article which, perhaps inadvertently, sums up the problem very nicely. Walton says, “You see defenders with their arms behind their backs, but that shouldn’t be necessary — it’s an unnatural position. The natural position is to have your arms by your sides; if the ball hits one of them there, that’s fine. That is not a handball.” Indeed, but it seems to me that almost whenever the ball hits a defender’s arm in the penalty area, a penalty is awarded. Witness Arsenal’s penalty (which Saka missed) against West Ham on Sunday. Nobody even complained. No wonder defenders keep their arms behind their backs. Even if they understand the rules, they clearly have no confidence whatsoever in how they’ll be interpreted. 

It’s a mess. For what it’s worth, my own view is that the interpretation of the law should probably be harsher. You’d get more handballs, but at least it would be clearer and more consistent. 

[canterburyaddick]

The problem and the beauty of football is that it is such a fluid game that there are almost infinitessimal ways that each event can happen. I like the clarity about a handball that comes off another part of the body not being penalised. I also thought the TAA handball was a miscarriage of justice. He clearly moved his arm to play the ball and indeed controlled the ball, fairly straightforward decision - at least it should have been.
Personally I would like to see some wriggle room around some of those disallowed goals where a toenail is offside. I just haven't worked out how it would work yet. There would need to be a line drawn at some point.
I do some referring at the lowest level - walking football for the over 50s. I still get 70 year olds arguing my decision and such it will always be.

[Mundell]

  …. and right on cue, another ludicrous decision in the Bayern Munich v Manchester City game.

Was Upamecano’s arm in an unnatural position? Well he turned his back on the ball and as he did so his arm flailed out from his side. If that wasn’t natural I don’t know what is. His arm did not move towards the ball which only lightly brushed his arm on the way through to Sommer in goal for Bayern. Stupid rule and too rigid an interpretation. 

None of this helps the credibility of referees, even if it’s not their fault. 

[aaronaldo]

I dislike the rules around both handball and offside.

Handball should include intent. You shouldn’t get penalised because a ball randomly flicks up and hits you on your hand. The whole ‘natural position’ is a joke as well. Plenty of arms in natural positions have been given penalties. You basically can’t have arms as defenders. As I’m typing this Bayern have just been given a ridiculous decision.

With offside I hate how it can be ANY part of your body (that can legally touch the ball) that can make you offside. As a striker your body/momentum will be towards the opposition goal and defenders will naturally be facing the other way and momentum going away from their goal. So you could be perfectly in line with the defenders but as you’re trying to get forward your upper body tilts and you’re offside as the defenders are stepping up.

They need changing. Awful rules as they are now.

[Mundell]

Apr 19, 2023 20:46:14 GMT aaronaldo said:

Handball should include intent. You shouldn’t get penalised because a ball randomly flicks up and hits you on your hand. The whole ‘natural position’ is a joke as well. Plenty of arms in natural positions have been given penalties. You basically can’t have arms as defenders. As I’m typing this Bayern have just been given a ridiculous decision.

For me the most dispiriting aspect of all of this is that it’s not obvious that anyone is out there worrying about how to improve things. Funnily enough, I wasn’t surprised a penalty was given against Akanji, but that decision showed precisely why defenders tend to keep their hands behind their back and it was ironic that Peter Walton, who said in the article I linked above that this shouldn’t be necessary, confirmed it was a penalty!! 

[bigandy99]

It was clearer when handball was simply “deliberate” or not.. let the referee decide..

[jonkool]

Apr 19, 2023 22:06:06 GMT bigandy99 said:

It was clearer when handball was simply “deliberate” or not.. let the referee decide..

In days gone by the question was quite simple … was it ball to hand or hand to ball which is a simple concept. However, if we returned to this in the post VAR world I’m sure that the authorities would insist upon the defender taking a lie detector test in terms of his intentions

When VAR was first introduced the rallying cry was ‘clear & obvious’ but that eminently sensible concept was soon dropped when the technocrats started to play with their new toy.

It’s all a mess but the genie won’t be put back into the bottle.

[earlpurple]

My own opinion is that neither of them last night should have been penalties. I guess once they gave one they had to give the other one (even though the first penalty was missed) to show they're treating both teams equally.

Ball to hand should not be a penalty unless it's obvious that the defender's arm was sticking out in such a manner to make the target bigger, e.g. adopting a "wide" stance with the arms by the sides. Difficult to know about the situation when it's simply sticking out as part of running or trying to signal something to the opponent but those are usually given.

The Leeds vs Liverpool game, I thought that's exactly why they brought in VAR. "If we had video assistance, handball incidents like that would be seen". Diego's goal against England would have been disallowed of course but that was simply handball in the build-up and we had the same away at West Brom when we were in the Championship. (I wasn't sure our last minute penalty should have been awarded but it evened it up).

And clear offside decisions that you could see in 30 seconds whether the on-field decision was incorrect.

[huddy1978]

I Agree the handball rule is a joke, I think one of the main issues with VAR is they slow it down so much it looks like it could be deliberate, but when you see it in real time you can see there is no way players can get there arm or hand out of the way at that speed.

I think VAR should make a decision only to even review it if looks like handball in real time.
The penalty against Man City was a disgrace, luckily it had no affect on the result for them.
Even Mane was appealing with smile on his face.

I also think the penalty for Arsenal against West Ham was a bad decision.
i think its extremely rare that any player actually deliberately hand balls it, unless your name is Suarez!.

[aaronaldo]

Apr 20, 2023 8:55:34 GMT huddy1978 said:

I Agree the handball rule is a joke, I think one of the main issues with VAR is they slow it down so much it looks like it could be deliberate, but when you see it in real time you can see there is no way players can get there arm or hand out of the way at that speed.

I think VAR should make a decision only to even review it if looks like handball in real time.
The penalty against Man City was a disgrace, luckily it had no affect on the result for them.
Even Mane was appealing with smile on his face.

I also think the penalty for Arsenal against West Ham was a bad decision.
i think its extremely rare that any player actually deliberately hand balls it, unless your name is Suarez!.

I think this is a very good point and I agree about that slow-mo or even stills are out of context by themselves. Yes, slow it down to see if there is contact but base your decision on normal speed. To be honest, if you're having to look into it so much (slow-mo) is it really a handball?

I tend to think there should be consideration of where the player/ball is. If it's in clearly in the six yard area then maybe penalise for handball a lot harsher as it's a goal scoring opportunity. Giving a penalty for a handball at the edge of the box from a cross that flicks up and hits a defenders hand is pathetic imo. Unless they have clearly done it on purpose. But as huddy says that's quite rare for me.

Is the 'cure' worse than the 'disease' or issue?