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Post by bexleyboy on May 31, 2019 12:54:11 GMT
Bowyer says all decisions were football decisions and Vetokele was solely down to his injury record ....
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 13:00:56 GMT
If the report is true that he wants £10,000 per week, then that is what he should be paid. Has he not already shown last season that he is worth that, in a division where many players of lesser talent are probably being paid a lot more. Hearing that Williams has been offered a new contract rather than been released would help to encourage more undecided fans to buy a season ticket. Talk about FFP and dry-as-dust explanations as to why Charlton's budget has to be so small will not encourage one wavering supporter to buy a season ticket. Fans aren't going to shell out hundreds of pounds as a gesture of sympathy for a poor little Club that can't afford to compete, bless 'em. They will buy season tickets to watch exciting players competing as a well disciplined and motivated team. Firstly, you have no idea if his wages are £10k a week or £30k a week. Secondly, try telling Birmingham fans that FFP is less important than getting fans to buy season tickets. Thirdly if Williams, who failed to start most the the games he was available for, is given £10k a week (ignoring what that will do to the cost of the other players in the squad and any that come in after him) that's £520,000 a year (plus NI etc.). If the average season ticket generates c. £200 after VAT we would need to sell £2,600 extra season tickets to fund his wages, alone. If you are going to then demand that we sign ten more players like him (after all, anything less than challenging for promotion should be regarded as a total insult by the club and it's financial backers) then we will need to sell another 26,000 season tickets. Tell me, where are the 38,600 fans going to sit? Or are you going to insist that someone funds a six week development of The Valley to add another 15,000 seats? What makes your statements unrealistic Lardiman, and unfair, in my view, is that all of your demands need to be paid for by someone else, and you are talking about millions and millions of pounds. You balked at my suggestion of £100m before. Just how much do you think it costs to assemble, and fund, a serious promotion squad? Take a look at these articles and see how much money those that get promoted spend on player transfers and wage bills then come back and tel me that we can do it for much less - and while you're at it why don't you offer a much more reasonable suggestion as to where the money is going to come from, than to demand it from a chap that has been insulted, ridiculed and chased out of the club by fans. Transfer Fees: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-10-most-expensive-championship-players-ever-neves-carvalho-ritchie/Wage Bills: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-every-every-pl-and-champ-clubs-wages-compare-to-their-league-finish/Absolutely bang on. |
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Post by scabbyhorse on May 31, 2019 14:25:06 GMT
Also does anyone really think if the Aussies take over they are going to be handing out 10 , 15 , 20 grand a week wages?.......nah me neither.
Best of league one and good premier loans and I'm sure we have the right man at the helm to get the best out of them.
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Post by seriouslyred on May 31, 2019 14:26:21 GMT
If the report is true that he wants £10,000 per week, then that is what he should be paid. Has he not already shown last season that he is worth that, in a division where many players of lesser talent are probably being paid a lot more. Hearing that Williams has been offered a new contract rather than been released would help to encourage more undecided fans to buy a season ticket. Talk about FFP and dry-as-dust explanations as to why Charlton's budget has to be so small will not encourage one wavering supporter to buy a season ticket. Fans aren't going to shell out hundreds of pounds as a gesture of sympathy for a poor little Club that can't afford to compete, bless 'em. They will buy season tickets to watch exciting players competing as a well disciplined and motivated team. Firstly, you have no idea if his wages are £10k a week or £30k a week. Secondly, try telling Birmingham fans that FFP is less important than getting fans to buy season tickets. Thirdly if Williams, who failed to start most the the games he was available for, is given £10k a week (ignoring what that will do to the cost of the other players in the squad and any that come in after him) that's £520,000 a year (plus NI etc.). If the average season ticket generates c. £200 after VAT we would need to sell £2,600 extra season tickets to fund his wages, alone. If you are going to then demand that we sign ten more players like him (after all, anything less than challenging for promotion should be regarded as a total insult by the club and it's financial backers) then we will need to sell another 26,000 season tickets. Tell me, where are the 38,600 fans going to sit? Or are you going to insist that someone funds a six week development of The Valley to add another 15,000 seats? What makes your statements unrealistic Lardiman, and unfair, in my view, is that all of your demands need to be paid for by someone else, and you are talking about millions and millions of pounds. You balked at my suggestion of £100m before. Just how much do you think it costs to assemble, and fund, a serious promotion squad? Take a look at these articles and see how much money those that get promoted spend on player transfers and wage bills then come back and tel me that we can do it for much less - and while you're at it why don't you offer a much more reasonable suggestion as to where the money is going to come from, than to demand it from a chap that has been insulted, ridiculed and chased out of the club by fans. Transfer Fees: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-10-most-expensive-championship-players-ever-neves-carvalho-ritchie/Wage Bills: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-every-every-pl-and-champ-clubs-wages-compare-to-their-league-finish/Many thanks for the links. Several years back a fellow fan and I looked at the correlations between several sets of stats and league position. Off the top of my head we took bookies odds, transfermarkt valuation and Squawka team performance scores which in turn are based on Opta stats. They all had a strong but not perfect correlation and many have done the same with the premier league. Bottom line is that wage bill determines much of performance and results because it's a mature market with many buyers and sellers. Of course one can secure promotion with a low budget just as Charlton and Sunderland were relegated with high budgets. So the management and player acquisition as well as coaching is key. Bowyer did his job last season no more and no less. That we could easily have list to Doncaster shows how tight things were. That the management did much better than their predecessors makes them heroes for the fans. But that doesn't guarantee success as we saw recently with Chris Powell. And if anybody thinks RD should sanction million pound salaries across the board with zero guarantee of success I'll say one word: Bolton! They've paid out beyond their means for years, even in the Premier League. Same with QPR and Cardiff. Owners have taken write offs of c.£140M! And even then these clubs continue to bleed losses. Swiss Ramble gives all the stats for the season before last. And, as Mundell states, we should consider ourselves a bottom six club in terms of revenue and wage bill. Expecting anything different from RD would be a leap of faith that is essentially unhealthy. More on this later when there's time. |
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Post by seriouslyred on May 31, 2019 14:28:52 GMT
Also does anyone really think if the Aussies take over they are going to be handing out 10 , 15 , 20 grand a week wages?.......nah me neither. Best of league one and good premier loans and I'm sure we have the right man at the helm to get the best out of them. The Aussies couldn't afford to close the deal 12 months ago... and if they want RD to settle the then-director loans then that is for one reason: that gives clean title and enables them to borrow against the assets. No thanks! Fastest way for the club to fall over and have a ten point deduction with no guarantee of success. |
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Post by scabbyhorse on May 31, 2019 14:35:35 GMT
Think people have got carried away , yes we all want him to sell and a mega rich owner prepared to spend money thats without a doubt but the championship is a different animal now.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 14:36:10 GMT
Firstly, you have no idea if his wages are £10k a week or £30k a week. Secondly, try telling Birmingham fans that FFP is less important than getting fans to buy season tickets. Thirdly if Williams, who failed to start most the the games he was available for, is given £10k a week (ignoring what that will do to the cost of the other players in the squad and any that come in after him) that's £520,000 a year (plus NI etc.). If the average season ticket generates c. £200 after VAT we would need to sell £2,600 extra season tickets to fund his wages, alone. If you are going to then demand that we sign ten more players like him (after all, anything less than challenging for promotion should be regarded as a total insult by the club and it's financial backers) then we will need to sell another 26,000 season tickets. Tell me, where are the 38,600 fans going to sit? Or are you going to insist that someone funds a six week development of The Valley to add another 15,000 seats? What makes your statements unrealistic Lardiman, and unfair, in my view, is that all of your demands need to be paid for by someone else, and you are talking about millions and millions of pounds. You balked at my suggestion of £100m before. Just how much do you think it costs to assemble, and fund, a serious promotion squad? Take a look at these articles and see how much money those that get promoted spend on player transfers and wage bills then come back and tel me that we can do it for much less - and while you're at it why don't you offer a much more reasonable suggestion as to where the money is going to come from, than to demand it from a chap that has been insulted, ridiculed and chased out of the club by fans. Transfer Fees: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-10-most-expensive-championship-players-ever-neves-carvalho-ritchie/Wage Bills: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-every-every-pl-and-champ-clubs-wages-compare-to-their-league-finish/I'm not interested in the money. Or (to be a bit more accurate) I don't care about the money a fraction as much as I care about the football. The money side of things is for spivs and crooks and folks who get excited by money. Most fans are excited by great football, not dusty old ledgers. Since when was being a football fan involved settling for 21st place in the league? Writing off your teams' chances of competing because the budget is too small, and FFP, and all the other stuff that accountants find really interesting. Outside a few thousand hard core fans who would sooner die than stop buying an ST, and a small clique of supporters who like to think of themselves as cleverer than ordinary fans because they understand business finance, nobody gives a damn. Talk of budgets and FFP won't inspire one person out there to become a future Charlton supporter. It won't galvanise one person to buy a season ticket and come to the Valley. There is so much more to football than accountancy. So many more ways to succeed than moneyball, whatever the hell that is. Measure everything the team does against the resources available to them, and you might as well be playing a computer game. Charlton won promotion last season - so what? Weren't we the third or fourth best funded Club in League One? Wasn't our budget one of the most generous in the league? So in financial terms the Club didn't really achieve anything remarkable. It just did what it should have done given its financial circumstances. <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.019999999999982px; height: 12.840000000000032px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_415040" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_81313804" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_7517203" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_27276915" scrolling="no"></iframe> That kind of attitude is really going to get those ST sales humming this summer. |
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Post by kings hill addick on May 31, 2019 14:43:46 GMT
Firstly, you have no idea if his wages are £10k a week or £30k a week. Secondly, try telling Birmingham fans that FFP is less important than getting fans to buy season tickets. Thirdly if Williams, who failed to start most the the games he was available for, is given £10k a week (ignoring what that will do to the cost of the other players in the squad and any that come in after him) that's £520,000 a year (plus NI etc.). If the average season ticket generates c. £200 after VAT we would need to sell £2,600 extra season tickets to fund his wages, alone. If you are going to then demand that we sign ten more players like him (after all, anything less than challenging for promotion should be regarded as a total insult by the club and it's financial backers) then we will need to sell another 26,000 season tickets. Tell me, where are the 38,600 fans going to sit? Or are you going to insist that someone funds a six week development of The Valley to add another 15,000 seats? What makes your statements unrealistic Lardiman, and unfair, in my view, is that all of your demands need to be paid for by someone else, and you are talking about millions and millions of pounds. You balked at my suggestion of £100m before. Just how much do you think it costs to assemble, and fund, a serious promotion squad? Take a look at these articles and see how much money those that get promoted spend on player transfers and wage bills then come back and tel me that we can do it for much less - and while you're at it why don't you offer a much more reasonable suggestion as to where the money is going to come from, than to demand it from a chap that has been insulted, ridiculed and chased out of the club by fans. Transfer Fees: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-10-most-expensive-championship-players-ever-neves-carvalho-ritchie/Wage Bills: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-every-every-pl-and-champ-clubs-wages-compare-to-their-league-finish/I'm not interested in the money. Or (to be a bit more accurate) I don't care about the money a fraction as much as I care about the football. The money side of things is for spivs and crooks and folks who get excited by money. Most fans are excited by great football, not dusty old ledgers. Since when was being a football fan involved settling for 21st place in the league? Writing off your teams' chances of competing because the budget is too small, and FFP, and all the other stuff that accountants find really interesting. Outside a few thousand hard core fans who would sooner die than stop buying an ST, and a small clique of supporters who like to think of themselves as cleverer than ordinary fans because they understand business finance, nobody gives a damn. Talk of budgets and FFP won't inspire one person out there to become a future Charlton supporter. It won't galvanise one person to buy a season ticket and come to the Valley. There is so much more to football than accountancy. So many more ways to succeed than moneyball, whatever the hell that is. Measure everything the team does against the resources available to them, and you might as well be playing a computer game. Charlton won promotion last season - so what? Weren't we the third or fourth best funded Club in League One? Wasn't our budget one of the most generous in the league? So in financial terms the Club didn't really achieve anything remarkable. It just did what it should have done given its financial circumstances. <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.019999999999982px; height: 12.840000000000032px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_415040" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_81313804" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_7517203" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_27276915" scrolling="no"></iframe> That kind of attitude is really going to get those ST sales humming this summer. You’re not interested in the money just so long as someone else keeps paying the bills! Do you manage your personal finances like that? I don’t want to sound rude but are you still at school and live at home with your parents? |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 14:48:02 GMT
Firstly, you have no idea if his wages are £10k a week or £30k a week. Secondly, try telling Birmingham fans that FFP is less important than getting fans to buy season tickets. Thirdly if Williams, who failed to start most the the games he was available for, is given £10k a week (ignoring what that will do to the cost of the other players in the squad and any that come in after him) that's £520,000 a year (plus NI etc.). If the average season ticket generates c. £200 after VAT we would need to sell £2,600 extra season tickets to fund his wages, alone. If you are going to then demand that we sign ten more players like him (after all, anything less than challenging for promotion should be regarded as a total insult by the club and it's financial backers) then we will need to sell another 26,000 season tickets. Tell me, where are the 38,600 fans going to sit? Or are you going to insist that someone funds a six week development of The Valley to add another 15,000 seats? What makes your statements unrealistic Lardiman, and unfair, in my view, is that all of your demands need to be paid for by someone else, and you are talking about millions and millions of pounds. You balked at my suggestion of £100m before. Just how much do you think it costs to assemble, and fund, a serious promotion squad? Take a look at these articles and see how much money those that get promoted spend on player transfers and wage bills then come back and tel me that we can do it for much less - and while you're at it why don't you offer a much more reasonable suggestion as to where the money is going to come from, than to demand it from a chap that has been insulted, ridiculed and chased out of the club by fans. Transfer Fees: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/the-10-most-expensive-championship-players-ever-neves-carvalho-ritchie/Wage Bills: www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-every-every-pl-and-champ-clubs-wages-compare-to-their-league-finish/I'm not interested in the money. Since when was being a football fan involved settling for 21st place in the league? Writing off your teams' chances of competing because the budget is too small, and FFP, and all the other stuff that accountants find really interesting. Outside a few thousand hard core fans who would sooner die than stop buying an ST, and a small clique of supporters who like to think of themselves as cleverer than ordinary fans because they understand business finance, nobody gives a damn. Talk of budgets and FFP won't inspire one person out there to become a future Charlton supporter. It won't galvanise one person to buy a season ticket and come to the Valley. There is so much more to football than accountancy. So many more ways to succeed than moneyball, whatever the hell that is. Measure everything the team does against the resources available to them, and you might as well be playing a computer game. Charlton won promotion last season - so what? Weren't we the third or fourth best funded Club in League One? Wasn't our budget one of the most generous in the league? So in financial terms the Club didn't really achieve anything remarkable. It just did what it should have done given its financial circumstances. That kind of attitude is really going to get those ST sales humming this summer. It’s obvious that a manager will try to win every game but with a bottom 6 budget you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think we will be aiming for promotion with minimal funding. You will get the odd team going for a double promotion with minimal outlay but those are likely to be teams who have a set squad which got promotion and have the quality to play up a level, but as we will have a completely different team next season barring a handful of players it does seem extremely unlikely to be us. The finances and restrictions are extremely important and just because you don’t or won’t understand them doesn’t make it irrelevant. The desire to buy a season ticket should have come from the playoff games and a Wembley win, if that doesn’t get you behind the team then what will?! It’s about be an optimistic realist and seeing how well LB et al can wheel and deal to suit his system, that quite excites me personally but I know it won’t others! |
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Post by garrynelson on May 31, 2019 14:48:40 GMT
I'm not interested in the money. Or (to be a bit more accurate) I don't care about the money a fraction as much as I care about the football. The money side of things is for spivs and crooks and folks who get excited by money. Most fans are excited by great football, not dusty old ledgers. Since when was being a football fan involved settling for 21st place in the league? Writing off your teams' chances of competing because the budget is too small, and FFP, and all the other stuff that accountants find really interesting. Outside a few thousand hard core fans who would sooner die than stop buying an ST, and a small clique of supporters who like to think of themselves as cleverer than ordinary fans because they understand business finance, nobody gives a damn. Talk of budgets and FFP won't inspire one person out there to become a future Charlton supporter. It won't galvanise one person to buy a season ticket and come to the Valley. There is so much more to football than accountancy. So many more ways to succeed than moneyball, whatever the hell that is. Measure everything the team does against the resources available to them, and you might as well be playing a computer game. Charlton won promotion last season - so what? Weren't we the third or fourth best funded Club in League One? Wasn't our budget one of the most generous in the league? So in financial terms the Club didn't really achieve anything remarkable. It just did what it should have done given its financial circumstances. <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.019999999999982px; height: 12.840000000000032px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_415040" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_81313804" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_7517203" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_27276915" scrolling="no"></iframe> That kind of attitude is really going to get those ST sales humming this summer. You’re not interested in the money just so long as someone else keeps paying the bills! Do you manage your personal finances like that? I don’t want to sound rude but are you still at school and live at home with your parents? Are you for real? |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 14:52:16 GMT
You’re not interested in the money just so long as someone else keeps paying the bills! Do you manage your personal finances like that? I don’t want to sound rude but are you still at school and live at home with your parents? I do pay the bills. Where else does my season ticket money go? If RD wants to give me a free ST then I'll stop criticising what he does with my money. And I rather think you do want to sound rude. My personal finances and life in general beyond this forum are none of your business. |
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Post by seriouslyred on May 31, 2019 15:04:39 GMT
You’re not interested in the money just so long as someone else keeps paying the bills! Do you manage your personal finances like that? I don’t want to sound rude but are you still at school and live at home with your parents? I do pay the bills. Where else does my season ticket money go? If RD wants to give me a free ST then I'll stop criticising what he does with my money. And I rather think you do want to sound rude. My personal finances and life in general beyond this forum are none of your business. We were promoted last weekend and you haven't stopped moaning ever since! As it happens the vast majority of CAFC fans do actually care about the sustainability of our club. Because if it isn't sustainable then there is no football! The Valley has approximately 25 years left before the steels in the stands might need replacing - somebody told me they probably have a 50 year life. As it happens many Charlton fans have a 25 year life! Why not just enjoy the fact that we aren't playing Accrington, Oxford and Gillingham again, we will have eleven on the pitch in August and the standard of referee plus the crowd and atmosphere will be better than last August. Why not just enjoy being a Charlton fan? |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 15:16:37 GMT
We were promoted last weekend and you haven't stopped moaning ever since! As it happens the vast majority of CAFC fans do actually care about the sustainability of our club. Because if it isn't sustainable then there is no football! The Valley has approximately 25 years left before the steels in the stands might need replacing - somebody told me they probably have a 50 year life. As it happens many Charlton fans have a 25 year life! Why not just enjoy the fact that we aren't playing Accrington, Oxford and Gillingham again, we will have eleven on the pitch in August and the standard of referee plus the crowd and atmosphere will be better than last August. Why not just enjoy being a Charlton fan? All I have been doing is what I usually do - disagreeing with you. Caring is relative. The vast majority of Charlton fans may well care about sustainability, but they don't care as much about sustainability as they care about watching good football. About 90% of EFL Clubs are not sustainable so I've heard. Something like that anyway. How many have been closed down or expelled from the League in the last few years... A couple? Any? Debts build up, just like they have at Charlton, then along comes a sugar-daddy or a crook (or both) and magically the debt just goes away. Corruption and spivvery is the way football is run. People who try to do things properly like Arsene Wenger or Roland Duchatelet just end up looking like fools. This whole business isn't worth arguing about anyway. If you and I have different expectations for this coming season so what? We're different people. We both have season tickets and we'll both be at as many games as circumstances allow. You can draw your conclusions from the way the season pans out and I'll draw mine. I did enjoy being a Charlton fan for many years. That enjoyment has faded markedly since 2014, but it has been restored to some degree now by that Lee Bowyer achieved last week. One day it will fully return, and I'm very much looking forward to that day. |
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Post by kings hill addick on May 31, 2019 15:23:34 GMT
You’re not interested in the money just so long as someone else keeps paying the bills! Do you manage your personal finances like that? I don’t want to sound rude but are you still at school and live at home with your parents? I do pay the bills. Where else does my season ticket money go? If RD wants to give me a free ST then I'll stop criticising what he does with my money. And I rather think you do want to sound rude. My personal finances and life in general beyond this forum are none of your business. I'm sorry if you think I was being rude, but I most certainly was not. Your logic about where the money comes from is similar to what I'd expect from someone that is not responsible for managing household finances. I have no idea how old people on forums are, and I'm led to believe that a lot of school age fans use them. It was not unreasonable to conclude that you are one of them, nor should it, automatically, be seen as an insult that I thought you were. I was under the impression that you had stopped attending games, but if not then I suspect that your season ticket money probably goes on what one of the promoted Academy players earns in a week. Probably doesn't cover his whole week's money (maybe three or four days) but surely you can see how the revenue from one season ticket doesn't give a fan the right to demand a £10k a week commitment. When you say your money, you haven't invested it have you? It's not a loan or working capital. It's the purchase of the right to watch football matches. You don't demand to know what the owner of a pub does with your money every time you buy a pint do you? Well I don't. If I was putting a couple of million pounds into the club I might feel the desire to hold the club accountable for what they do with it, but not for a few hundred pounds for a season's access to games. Also, when the owner is funding £10m a year shortfalls I really can't really expect him to take instructions from me, at least I don't think so. Just for the record, when I asked if you manage your own finances like you suggest the club should it was rhetorical. I have no, real, interest in how anyone else manages their finances - save for clients that pay me to help them do so. I just assumed that you don't spend other peoples money and thought that might be relevant when you are looking to do so on behalf of the club. Anyway if I offended you I apologise. |
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Post by seriouslyred on May 31, 2019 15:54:04 GMT
@lardiman thanks for reply and we can all recognise the inner child, the fan who just wants the team to win every week. And it's doubly frustrating because there are many clubs in the Premier League who were the same size as us until they hit the big time.
The fact is that Leagues 1 & 2 are sustainable due to the FFP framework which limits losses whereas the Championship clubs are losing £250M a season between them. There is no other league like it in the world because the prize is the biggest in the world.
We all want to win that prize so we want an owner who wants that too, and can fund it, AND has the ability to execute.
And what it boils down to is that the people in charge 2014-16 failed to execute the strategy successfully, whereas the last two years have seen steady progress.
That's why some are agnostic about RD and why many don't have a problem with the released list. We are losing some talent but we are also losing a lot of players who didn't do much last season and simply aren't good enough now that we are promoted.
Having no midfield right now has to be a big concern, but we are still in May. And in Gallen and Bowyer we have people we can trust to sort the squad. There are always going to be tensions between board and management but what we might acknowledge is that not only were we promoted but something else happened...
We've had Gallen and Bowyer in charge for a full season and two windows - they know what they are doing and haven't made a single mistake when it comes to player acquisition... we can say the fans just want to see good football but the best way to guarantee decent performances is through coaching, the academy and player acquisition.
These two are getting a chance because of where we are as a club. It was the same for Lennie and Curbs. And they are celebrated for both their longevity and success on a shoestring. That's what being Charlton is all about.
So people can ignore the finances, and the tactics and the squad evolution. But what steers the narrative on the grapevine is the direction of travel of our great club. For sure it's all about results, and those results come from hard work and putting together the right squad.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 17:00:17 GMT
I do pay the bills. Where else does my season ticket money go? If RD wants to give me a free ST then I'll stop criticising what he does with my money. And I rather think you do want to sound rude. My personal finances and life in general beyond this forum are none of your business. I'm sorry if you thin I was being rude, but I most certainly was not. Your logic about where the money comes from is similar to what I'd expect from someone that is not responsible for managing household finances. I have no idea how old people on forums are, and I'm led to believe that a lot of school age fans use them. It was not unreasonable to conclude that you are one of them, nor should it, automatically, be seen as an insult that I thought you were. I was under the impression that you had stopped attending games, but if not then I suspect that your season ticket money probably goes on what one of the promoted Academy players earns in a week. Probably doesn't cover his whole week's money (maybe three or four days) but surely you can see how the revenue from one season ticket doesn't give a fan the right to demand a £10k a week commitment. When you say your money, you haven't invested it have you? It's not a loan or working capital. It's the purchase of the right to watch football matches. You don't demand to know what the owner of a pub does with your money every time you buy a pint do you? Well I don't. If I was putting a couple of million pounds into the club I might feel the desire to hold the club accountable for what they do with it, but not for a few hundred pounds for a season's access to games. Also, when the owner is funding £10m a year shortfalls I really can't really expect him to take instructions from me, at least I don't think so. Just for the record, when I asked if you manage your own finances like you suggest the club should it was rhetorical. I have no, real, interest in how anyone else manages their finances - save for clients that pay me to help them do so. I just assumed that you don't spend other peoples money and thought that might be relevant when you are looking to do so on behalf of the club. Anyway if I offended you I apologise. So you honestly thought I was a school age child because my opinion on the point we were arguing was not worthy (in your eyes) of an adult with personal financial responsibilities? Come on. We both know you were taking the piss. But I've given out worse to some people in the past, so fair play to you. I missed some home games after Christmas, for reasons I'm not going into here. In my opinion paying several hundred pounds each year to Duchatelet gives me the right to express an opinion on how he runs the Club, since my ST money and that of every other paying supporter does help to pay the bills. Yes, you offended me a bit. But as mentioned earlier I've been much more offensive to others in my time so what goes around comes around. It's no problem. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 17:17:34 GMT
@lardiman thanks for reply and we can all recognise the inner child, the fan who just wants the team to win every week. And it's doubly frustrating because there are many clubs in the Premier League who were the same size as us until they hit the big time. The fact is that Leagues 1 & 2 are sustainable due to the FFP framework which limits losses whereas the Championship clubs are losing £250M a season between them. There is no other league like it in the world because the prize is the biggest in the world. We all want to win that prize so we want an owner who wants that too, and can fund it, AND has the ability to execute. And what it boils down to is that the people in charge 2014-16 failed to execute the strategy successfully, whereas the last two years have seen steady progress. That's why some are agnostic about RD and why many don't have a problem with the released list. We are losing some talent but we are also losing a lot of players who didn't do much last season and simply aren't good enough now that we are promoted. Having no midfield right now has to be a big concern, but we are still in May. And in Gallen and Bowyer we have people we can trust to sort the squad. There are always going to be tensions between board and management but what we might acknowledge is that not only were we promoted but something else happened... We've had Gallen and Bowyer in charge for a full season and two windows - they know what they are doing and haven't made a single mistake when it comes to player acquisition... we can say the fans just want to see good football but the best way to guarantee decent performances is through coaching, the academy and player acquisition. These two are getting a chance because of where we are as a club. It was the same for Lennie and Curbs. And they are celebrated for both their longevity and success on a shoestring. That's what being Charlton is all about. So people can ignore the finances, and the tactics and the squad evolution. But what steers the narrative on the grapevine is the direction of travel of our great club. For sure it's all about results, and those results come from hard work and putting together the right squad. Fair comments. We all hope Lee Bowyer can be up there with Lennie and Curbs in the fullness of time. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2019 17:20:45 GMT
@lardiman thanks for reply and we can all recognise the inner child, the fan who just wants the team to win every week. And it's doubly frustrating because there are many clubs in the Premier League who were the same size as us until they hit the big time. The fact is that Leagues 1 & 2 are sustainable due to the FFP framework which limits losses whereas the Championship clubs are losing £250M a season between them. There is no other league like it in the world because the prize is the biggest in the world. We all want to win that prize so we want an owner who wants that too, and can fund it, AND has the ability to execute. And what it boils down to is that the people in charge 2014-16 failed to execute the strategy successfully, whereas the last two years have seen steady progress. That's why some are agnostic about RD and why many don't have a problem with the released list. We are losing some talent but we are also losing a lot of players who didn't do much last season and simply aren't good enough now that we are promoted. Having no midfield right now has to be a big concern, but we are still in May. And in Gallen and Bowyer we have people we can trust to sort the squad. There are always going to be tensions between board and management but what we might acknowledge is that not only were we promoted but something else happened... We've had Gallen and Bowyer in charge for a full season and two windows - they know what they are doing and haven't made a single mistake when it comes to player acquisition... we can say the fans just want to see good football but the best way to guarantee decent performances is through coaching, the academy and player acquisition. These two are getting a chance because of where we are as a club. It was the same for Lennie and Curbs. And they are celebrated for both their longevity and success on a shoestring. That's what being Charlton is all about. So people can ignore the finances, and the tactics and the squad evolution. But what steers the narrative on the grapevine is the direction of travel of our great club. For sure it's all about results, and those results come from hard work and putting together the right squad. Fair comments. We all hope Lee Bowyer can be up there with Lennie and Curbs in the fullness of time. It begs the question as to how they both achieved such success without the help of some protesters and an uprising of Club hatred ? |
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Post by reamsofverse on May 31, 2019 17:24:05 GMT
This is a full released list thread so can we keep the school playground stuff off it please.
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Post by willett on May 31, 2019 18:12:23 GMT
I'm not interested in the money. Or (to be a bit more accurate) I don't care about the money a fraction as much as I care about the football. The money side of things is for spivs and crooks and folks who get excited by money. Most fans are excited by great football, not dusty old ledgers. Since when was being a football fan involved settling for 21st place in the league? Writing off your teams' chances of competing because the budget is too small, and FFP, and all the other stuff that accountants find really interesting. Outside a few thousand hard core fans who would sooner die than stop buying an ST, and a small clique of supporters who like to think of themselves as cleverer than ordinary fans because they understand business finance, nobody gives a damn. Talk of budgets and FFP won't inspire one person out there to become a future Charlton supporter. It won't galvanise one person to buy a season ticket and come to the Valley. There is so much more to football than accountancy. So many more ways to succeed than moneyball, whatever the hell that is. Measure everything the team does against the resources available to them, and you might as well be playing a computer game. Charlton won promotion last season - so what? Weren't we the third or fourth best funded Club in League One? Wasn't our budget one of the most generous in the league? So in financial terms the Club didn't really achieve anything remarkable. It just did what it should have done given its financial circumstances. <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.019999999999982px; height: 12.840000000000032px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_415040" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_81313804" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_7517203" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_27276915" scrolling="no"></iframe> That kind of attitude is really going to get those ST sales humming this summer. You’re not interested in the money just so long as someone else keeps paying the bills! Do you manage your personal finances like that? I don’t want to sound rude but are you still at school and live at home with your parents? No need for that on here. |
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Post by stanley on May 31, 2019 19:02:31 GMT
You’re not interested in the money just so long as someone else keeps paying the bills! Do you manage your personal finances like that? I don’t want to sound rude but are you still at school and live at home with your parents? Thought you were better than that KHA... |
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Post by seriouslyred on May 31, 2019 21:45:46 GMT
Back to the squad...
In Goal we've lost a loan keeper - not an issue to replace, and ideally a better one?
In defence Bauer might be lured away but it's well within CAFC's control to offer appropriate terms. Everyone else stays although the question remains as to whether they are good enough as a unit?
In midfield the slate is wiped clean and we always knew this was going to happen. Again it's up to RD to set the right budgets so as to enable Gallen to bring them back, or their equivalent. And Marshall, Reeves and Fosu simply won't cut it in the Championship if they were only on the bench when we were kicking on last season.
Up front, is anybody mourning the departure of Parker and Vetokele? Many thanks for their services in a great season but CAFC needs to aim higher, much, much higher if we are to progress. And that's where contracts of 1/2M a year or 10K a week are unlikely to do the job. As others have noted RD can either look to sell quickly or he can fund the club losses whilst he awaits a deal... And it's actually in his interest to fund decent acquisitions... although he is extremely unlikely to fund any depth in the squad.
Cue the cries of "paper thin squad" from the usual suspects. But the irony is that we could be entering into our third successive season of improvements that could then be followed by a fourth. People looking at CAFC through a 2016 lens with Chris Powell frames are never going to get it!
Another phenomena is that some don't like loan players because they leave the club, often as better players. But we were never going to secure promotion without those loans and RD wasn't going to sanction millions being spent for players of that age and calibre.
All we can hope for is improvement but it is blind faith to believe that will happen. Just as it is blind faith to believe the propaganda in VotV stating that there is someone waiting in the wings to relaunch CAFC. After 12 years out of the Premier League of which at least half we have been up for sale, one would think that the penny might drop?
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Post by hairyhotdog on May 31, 2019 22:56:54 GMT
So at the moment we could line up....
Phillips
Djksteel Pearce Sarr Page
Morgan Pratley JFC Lapslie
Taylor ?
Assuming that JFC signs as expected....
That’s not too bad of a base to work around , couple of strikers and some backups and “We’re on our way , We’re on our way , to the Premiership.....”
😃
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Post by aaronaldo on Jun 1, 2019 8:12:51 GMT
So at the moment we could line up.... Phillips Djksteel Pearce Sarr Page Morgan Pratley JFC Lapslie Taylor ? Assuming that JFC signs as expected.... That’s not too bad of a base to work around , couple of strikers and some backups and “We’re on our way , We’re on our way , to the Premiership.....” 😃 Bloody Doom and Gloom merchant! 🤣 It’s not a bad team to start with. Very early days so far... |
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Post by reamsofverse on Jun 1, 2019 16:31:58 GMT
So at the moment we could line up.... Phillips Djksteel Pearce Sarr Page Morgan Pratley JFC Lapslie Taylor ? Assuming that JFC signs as expected.... That’s not too bad of a base to work around , couple of strikers and some backups and “We’re on our way , We’re on our way , to the Premiership.....” 😃 Where's Bauer? |
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Post by seriouslyred on Jun 1, 2019 20:03:28 GMT
So at the moment we could line up.... Phillips Djksteel Pearce Sarr Page Morgan Pratley JFC Lapslie Taylor ? Assuming that JFC signs as expected.... That’s not too bad of a base to work around , couple of strikers and some backups and “We’re on our way , We’re on our way , to the Premiership.....” 😃 And there's the potential to add Bauer, Bielik, Aribo, Cullen and Williams to the squad if deals can be done with the players and parent clubs. As Mundell and others have pointed out, it's all about the budgets and losses which RD is prepared to underwrite until such time as he sells the club. |
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Post by squareball on Jun 1, 2019 21:58:08 GMT
I'm not interested in the money. Or (to be a bit more accurate) I don't care about the money a fraction as much as I care about the football. The money side of things is for spivs and crooks and folks who get excited by money. Most fans are excited by great football, not dusty old ledgers. Since when was being a football fan involved settling for 21st place in the league? Writing off your teams' chances of competing because the budget is too small, and FFP, and all the other stuff that accountants find really interesting. Outside a few thousand hard core fans who would sooner die than stop buying an ST, and a small clique of supporters who like to think of themselves as cleverer than ordinary fans because they understand business finance, nobody gives a damn. Talk of budgets and FFP won't inspire one person out there to become a future Charlton supporter. It won't galvanise one person to buy a season ticket and come to the Valley. There is so much more to football than accountancy. So many more ways to succeed than moneyball, whatever the hell that is. Measure everything the team does against the resources available to them, and you might as well be playing a computer game. Charlton won promotion last season - so what? Weren't we the third or fourth best funded Club in League One? Wasn't our budget one of the most generous in the league? So in financial terms the Club didn't really achieve anything remarkable. It just did what it should have done given its financial circumstances. <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.019999999999982px; height: 12.840000000000032px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_415040" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_81313804" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_7517203" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="20.019999999999982" height="12.840000000000032" style="position: absolute; width: 20.02px; height: 12.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 945px; top: 574px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_27276915" scrolling="no"></iframe> That kind of attitude is really going to get those ST sales humming this summer. You’re not interested in the money just so long as someone else keeps paying the bills! Do you manage your personal finances like that? I don’t want to sound rude but are you still at school and live at home with your parents? Take no notice of Lardiman. He’s still smarting that Charlton failed to fail. Bless. |
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Post by lightning on Jun 1, 2019 22:14:28 GMT
Can someone please explain to me what Fosu has done to deserve a contract offer?!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 22:27:00 GMT
Can someone please explain to me what Fosu has done to deserve a contract offer?! Because of his age, if we offer a deal with the same or improved terms and it is rejected then we are entitled to a transfer fee by tribunal... If accepted we are still due a fee but decided by the club. |
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Post by hairyhotdog on Jun 2, 2019 4:35:23 GMT
Can someone please explain to me what Fosu has done to deserve a contract offer?! Because of his age, if we offer a deal with the same or improved terms and it is rejected then we are entitled to a transfer fee by tribunal... If accepted we are still due a fee but decided by the club. So we will get the same for Aribo too then...? As he’s younger than Fosu... |
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