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Post by villain on Aug 28, 2014 18:27:22 GMT
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Post by villain on Aug 28, 2014 18:30:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 18:36:57 GMT
who the fuk are you to accuse people questioning the Trust of being small minded & ignorant ? Actually I think you'll find your post is small minded, fucking insulting and ignorant. Have you actually read the thread ? 8 people representing a WHOLE clubs fans base, the 8 were hand picked , not elected , they were then given privy info not to be divulged , that in its self is totally contradictory to the whole ethos of a Trust. If you want someones un-elected hand up your arse working your mouth for you then please go ahead and pay up your fiver.
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Post by villain on Aug 28, 2014 18:39:21 GMT
Think you've just proved my point for me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 18:42:24 GMT
Very well moderated Inkblot however why it went off topic was ridiculous, nice one sadie. Back on subject how many who disagree with my views are actual members of the TRUST. Are they arguing against my points or just arguing because it's me? Always blame me! It was Vince that was being an idiot. Inky don't take sides but you do! None of you have actually answered the questions, Is it CAST you have a problem with or just who is running it? Do you have an issue with us having a trust or just the one we have? Eg. If you could strip it bare and restart it would you? Why do you care if others join or not ? Surely if people that thought the same as you were paying and voting members your views are more likely to be represented. Would you still have an issue with CAST speaking as the voice of the supporters if they reached 15000 members?
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Post by villain on Aug 28, 2014 18:47:46 GMT
Some very good questions there Sadie.
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 18:50:33 GMT
Very well moderated Inkblot however why it went off topic was ridiculous, nice one sadie. Back on subject how many who disagree with my views are actual members of the TRUST. Are they arguing against my points or just arguing because it's me? Always blame me! It was Vince that was being an idiot. Inky don't take sides but you do! None of you have actually answered the questions, Is it CAST you have a problem with or just who is running it? Do you have an issue with us having a trust or just the one we have? Eg. If you could strip it bare and restart it would you? Why do you care if others join or not ? Surely if people that thought the same as you were paying and voting members your views are more likely to be represented. Would you still have an issue with CAST speaking as the voice of the supporters if they reached 15000 members? Sadie pot kettle black you never answer questions directed at you. If you and I were to meet you would be amazed at what I am like. Reams has an opinion that is in line with what a lot of people think, he voices his concerns where others agree but are afraid to say. I have come to verbal blows with Reams on several issues but like yourself ?I do respect people for standing by their convictions AA being another. You have to learn to do the same.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 19:11:31 GMT
Think you've just proved my point for me. once again the anorak Charlton fan comes out the closet , why not , instead of posting a link to already well established "Trusts" , convince me and the other 25'000 supporters why and UN-ELECTED board, with history of self importance , should be the "voice of the fans" . Was it not these people that said the ground was going to be sold ? What exactly has RD done wrong apart from bail us out and sack an inept manager who ran out of ideas ? Please enlighten us.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 28, 2014 19:13:45 GMT
And your point is? It's some TRUST when the treasurer resigns isn't it. That list you have put up for our perusal. I bet 90% of them don't have a hidden agenda based on trying to save their names being forgotten forever for what they did in the Town Hall many moons ago. RD and KM have your measure, they look down their noses at you because you stand for nothing. When are you going to tell them that for a fiver you are NOT offering your members an input to the day to day running of the club because the opportunity to do so will never arise?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 19:14:32 GMT
Very well moderated Inkblot however why it went off topic was ridiculous, nice one sadie. Back on subject how many who disagree with my views are actual members of the TRUST. Are they arguing against my points or just arguing because it's me? Always blame me! It was Vince that was being an idiot. Inky don't take sides but you do! None of you have actually answered the questions, Is it CAST you have a problem with or just who is running it? Do you have an issue with us having a trust or just the one we have? Eg. If you could strip it bare and restart it would you? Why do you care if others join or not ? Surely if people that thought the same as you were paying and voting members your views are more likely to be represented. Would you still have an issue with CAST speaking as the voice of the supporters if they reached 15000 members? Sadie, if you cant establish why I'm against the "Trust" from my posts on this thread, then your more stupid than I thought ;-) Its an un-elected board that has invites to meetings where that are not allowed to divulge the content back to the fans , you and I , this is not a Trust , its an inner ring of self important busy bodies that like to be "ITK" !!
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 19:18:11 GMT
Think you've just proved my point for me. once again the anorak Charlton fan comes out the closet , why not , instead of posting a link to already well established "Trusts" , convince me and the other 25'000 supporters why and UN-ELECTED board, with history of self importance , should be the "voice of the fans" . Was it not these people that said the ground was going to be sold ? What exactly has RD done wrong apart from bail us out and sack an inept manager who ran out of ideas ? Please enlighten us. Not introduced happy hour in Bartrams for one Two did not pass my mobile number on to Kat which can be the only reason for her not calling me. Do you want me to go on
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Post by picksy on Aug 28, 2014 19:19:30 GMT
Think you've just proved my point for me. Whatever. I am not against a Football Trust concept but you have still ducked the question about telling lies to try and get people to join. And not for the first time, either. Maybe it is the smooth operator responsible that causes ill feeling?
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Post by villain on Aug 28, 2014 19:22:30 GMT
My point is that in my opinion there is a complete lack of understanding as to why supporters trusts exist.
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 19:25:22 GMT
My point is that in my opinion there is a complete lack of understanding as to why supporters trusts exist. No lack of understanding more lack of need
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 19:26:56 GMT
Always blame me! It was Vince that was being an idiot. Inky don't take sides but you do! None of you have actually answered the questions, Is it CAST you have a problem with or just who is running it? Do you have an issue with us having a trust or just the one we have? Eg. If you could strip it bare and restart it would you? Why do you care if others join or not ? Surely if people that thought the same as you were paying and voting members your views are more likely to be represented. Would you still have an issue with CAST speaking as the voice of the supporters if they reached 15000 members? Sadie, if you cant establish why I'm against the "Trust" from my posts on this thread, then your more stupid than I thought ;-) Its an un-elected board that has invites to meetings where that are not allowed to divulge the content back to the fans , you and I , this is not a Trust , its an inner ring of self important busy bodies that like to be "ITK" !! So, to answer my question you don't have a problem with there being a trust just those on the board? So if the board were to disperse and the board members were elected by the supporters by a democratic system you would be happy with the fact we have one...?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 19:29:49 GMT
It is sad that after some of us have gone to considerable trouble to articulate in an hopefully intelligent way why we lack confidence in the Trust, a spokesman for it then attacks us "small minded" and "ignorant" rather than addressing any of the genuine issues we have raised. Well done, villain. I've been wavering on whether to swallow my misgivings and join and felt that reams' stance was rather too dogmatic . But if you represent the Trust, you have just made my mind up for me and I have to conclude with regret that reams is right.
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 19:37:57 GMT
It is sad that after some of us have gone to considerable trouble to articulate in an hopefully intelligent way why we lack confidence in the Trust, a spokesman for it then attacks us "small minded" and "ignorant" rather than addressing any of the genuine issues we have raised. Well done, villain. I've been wavering on whether to swallow my misgivings and join and felt that reams' stance was rather too dogmatic . But if you represent the Trust, you have just made my mind up for me and I have to conclude with regret that reams is right. IA apart from giving AA credit for my post on the selective 8 you have made some good observations and prove to me that as I said earlier the Trust are deciding and not uniting Charlton fans
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 19:38:14 GMT
It is sad that after some of us have gone to considerable trouble to articulate in an hopefully intelligent way why we lack confidence in the Trust, a spokesman for it then attacks us "small minded" and "ignorant" rather than addressing any of the genuine issues we have raised. Well done, villain. I've been wavering on whether to swallow my misgivings and join and felt that reams' stance was rather too dogmatic . But if you represent the Trust, you have just made my mind up for me and I have to conclude with regret that reams is right. Funnily enough, I wasn't a member and had no intention of joining up to a few months back, the last time people were discussing (slating) the trust. I then decided what a great thing to do I'll pay a fiver and up their numbers a bit. No publicity is bad publicity. ;-)
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 28, 2014 19:38:26 GMT
My point is that in my opinion there is a complete lack of understanding as to why supporters trusts exist. Nobody is saying don't exist, we are merely saying that if you really have to at least tell the truth and promote it for the right reasons. How many of those TRUSTS exist only because they portrayed the clubs owner in a bad light within hours of him taking over the club. They were too cowardly to take on Jiminez just in case his answer to them was to sack Powell so picked on RD instead......... and lost. RD see's them as nothing other than mischief makers, let me tell you that for a fact.
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Post by villain on Aug 28, 2014 19:38:53 GMT
Think you've just proved my point for me. once again the anorak Charlton fan comes out the closet , why not , instead of posting a link to already well established "Trusts" , convince me and the other 25'000 supporters why and UN-ELECTED board, with history of self importance , should be the "voice of the fans" . Was it not these people that said the ground was going to be sold ? What exactly has RD done wrong apart from bail us out and sack an inept manager who ran out of ideas ? Please enlighten us. You know full well that when the idea of setting up a Charlton Athletic Supporters Trust was floated there were flyers and message board posts advertising a venue for interested supporters to meet and see where it went. The driving force supporters were largely those still in office today. We all know who they are. At the point where it was decided by this group of supporters that they would have a go at getting the Trust up and running there were no officials. Pretty much by default those who were driving the idea forward took the seats on the fledgling trust board. At that point democracy didn't come into it. There were not enough people to hold an election. From that point on the Chair of the trust supported by the other board members have created a trust membership and network in a very short space of time that other football clubs trusts have been unable to do. That's from scratch with no experience or expertise in such matters. It is remarkable. when CASTrust holds it's AGM there will be elections for office and any member can stand. I put it to you that if you feel that those running the trust now are not doing a good job then you should consider standing and driving it forward to the beat of your drum. i won't hold my breath though. It's far easier to stand on the sidelines and snipe and do nothing.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 28, 2014 19:43:52 GMT
Sadie, if you cant establish why I'm against the "Trust" from my posts on this thread, then your more stupid than I thought ;-) Its an un-elected board that has invites to meetings where that are not allowed to divulge the content back to the fans , you and I , this is not a Trust , its an inner ring of self important busy bodies that like to be "ITK" !! So, to answer my question you don't have a problem with there being a trust just those on the board? So if the board were to disperse and the board members were elected by the supporters by a democratic system you would be happy with the fact we have one...? If I was convinced that we needed one which I haven't been. Amateurs taking on the Professionals never works sadie and like I said launching into what they did head first without a seconds thought and within weeks of RD arriving at the club was a major own goal. Their actions earned themselves a reputation for all the wrong reasons but thankfully RD saw straight through them and has proved himself to the majority of the fan base which is why the TRUSTS numbers are dwindling, membership renewals are not what you would say, exactly flowing in I understand. .
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 19:45:41 GMT
once again the anorak Charlton fan comes out the closet , why not , instead of posting a link to already well established "Trusts" , convince me and the other 25'000 supporters why and UN-ELECTED board, with history of self importance , should be the "voice of the fans" . Was it not these people that said the ground was going to be sold ? What exactly has RD done wrong apart from bail us out and sack an inept manager who ran out of ideas ? Please enlighten us. You know full well that when the idea of setting up a Charlton Athletic Supporters Trust was floated there were flyers and message board posts advertising a venue for interested supporters to meet and see where it went. The driving force supporters were largely those still in office today. We all know who they are. At the point where it was decided by this group of supporters that they would have a go at getting the Trust up and running there were no officials. Pretty much by default those who were driving the idea forward took the seats on the fledgling trust board. At that point democracy didn't come into it. There were not enough people to hold an election. From that point on the Chair of the trust supported by the other board members have created a trust membership and network in a very short space of time that other football clubs trusts have been unable to do. That's from scratch with no experience or expertise in such matters. It is remarkable. when CASTrust holds it's AGM there will be elections for office and any member can stand. I put it to you that if you feel that those running the trust now are not doing a good job then you should consider standing and driving it forward to the beat of your drum. i won't hold my breath though. It's far easier to stand on the sidelines and snipe and do nothing. Villain what is the point of standing for something you don't want/ believe in. If the Trust do or try to do anything I don't agree withI will make my voice loud and clear. When I attended the Valley with average crowds of 4000 we did not need a trust and over 40 years later we still don't
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 28, 2014 19:48:01 GMT
once again the anorak Charlton fan comes out the closet , why not , instead of posting a link to already well established "Trusts" , convince me and the other 25'000 supporters why and UN-ELECTED board, with history of self importance , should be the "voice of the fans" . Was it not these people that said the ground was going to be sold ? What exactly has RD done wrong apart from bail us out and sack an inept manager who ran out of ideas ? Please enlighten us. You know full well that when the idea of setting up a Charlton Athletic Supporters Trust was floated there were flyers and message board posts advertising a venue for interested supporters to meet and see where it went. The driving force supporters were largely those still in office today. We all know who they are. At the point where it was decided by this group of supporters that they would have a go at getting the Trust up and running there were no officials. Pretty much by default those who were driving the idea forward took the seats on the fledgling trust board. At that point democracy didn't come into it. There were not enough people to hold an election. From that point on the Chair of the trust supported by the other board members have created a trust membership and network in a very short space of time that other football clubs trusts have been unable to do. That's from scratch with no experience or expertise in such matters. It is remarkable. when CASTrust holds it's AGM there will be elections for office and any member can stand. I put it to you that if you feel that those running the trust now are not doing a good job then you should consider standing and driving it forward to the beat of your drum. i won't hold my breath though. It's far easier to stand on the sidelines and snipe and do nothing. There is nothing to drive forward mate, the novelty has worn off, it's on it's arse. What do you call driving it forward? false advertising?
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Post by villain on Aug 28, 2014 19:49:54 GMT
It is sad that after some of us have gone to considerable trouble to articulate in an hopefully intelligent way why we lack confidence in the Trust, a spokesman for it then attacks us "small minded" and "ignorant" rather than addressing any of the genuine issues we have raised. Well done, villain. I've been wavering on whether to swallow my misgivings and join and felt that reams' stance was rather too dogmatic . But if you represent the Trust, you have just made my mind up for me and I have to conclude with regret that reams is right. Firstly ly I am not a spokesman for the trust. I am still of the opinion that the negative posts are based more on a sense of vindictiveness and lack of understanding than anything else.
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 28, 2014 19:53:45 GMT
As you say it's your opinion, I know people who are heavily involved in the Swansea and Wrexham FC TRUSTS so have a better understanding than you think.
True I don't like the people who run Charlton's and would also dislike any newly elected people too, just not as much.
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Post by villain on Aug 28, 2014 19:57:14 GMT
As you say it's your opinion, I know people who are heavily involved in the Swansea and Wrexham FC TRUSTS so have a better understanding than you think. True I don't like the people who run Charlton's and would also dislike any newly elected people too, just not as much. Lol. Well at least that's a consistent stance. I can respect that. If I might ask a question. Why do you not like those currently running the Trust ? What have they done to earn your dislike ?
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 19:57:57 GMT
As you say it's your opinion, I know people who are heavily involved in the Swansea and Wrexham FC TRUSTS so have a better understanding than you think. True I don't like the people who run Charlton's and would also dislike any newly elected people too, just not as much. Reams the Trust are not bad. they are fucking awful back you on this one and no smart arse will change my opinion. Would love to be one of those with the bucket though
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 28, 2014 20:13:44 GMT
What's her name?!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 20:15:56 GMT
So let me get this right. If you are pro Trust you can have an opinion, but if you're anti trust you're told you shouldn't start a thread that contains anti Trust opinions. So let's add a clause of "no democracy" to the even more undemocratic "self elected board" Was the Trust conceived in Russia?
Well done to our pro Tust members...I think you might have just sunk the good ship CAST.
ps. Can we please ban the use of race cards on this forum. Calling complete strangers racist makes people look complete dickheads.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 20:37:51 GMT
My point is that in my opinion there is a complete lack of understanding as to why supporters trusts exist. so why is it then ? and more importantly why was it not brought in under the reign or messers Slater and Jimmy ! let me think , because you were "scared" of the big boys, oh no of course not, you guys had the football pacifier in the shape of Mr Powell, god forbid you ask a question while he was at the helm !
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