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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 9:24:31 GMT
oh dear, what a silly dig Sadie, did you not read my points above ? Where did paul point them out ? I have my own thoughts about the trust and its motives, stopping progression at the Valley isn't something that's beneficial to the future of the club. Bad mouthing a new owner before he even sets foot in the board room was pathetic.
Your fudged figures dont stand up , unpaid members, lol
I'm sure there are more than 4 people who had their noses put out of joint when Dickie's cosy little tea party club was decommissioned...
Until I see evidence that a vote took place appointing the trust board members, it just equates to a bunch of self appointed busy bodies.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 9:33:59 GMT
It was the G21 who done that. It is more than 1200 supporters there are about 7000 if you include unpaid members/email subscribers. I am starting to think that some of you on here (4 People spring to mind) would drink bleach or jump off of a moving train if Reams told you it was a good idea. Like you would if Bin Larden had asked you to. Although thankfully due to American Special forces long after due blowing his brains out that will not happen until you are with him in heavenheaven And how do you come to the conclusion that I am a Muslim terrorist when I am a Christian. You really are an idiot!
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 9:42:46 GMT
Like you would if Bin Larden had asked you to. Although thankfully due to American Special forces long after due blowing his brains out that will not happen until you are with him in heavenheaven And how do you come to the conclusion that I am a Muslim terrorist when I am a Christian. You really are an idiot! Being called an idiot by you I will take as a compliment. As a supporter of the CAS T can you explain why there appears to be no Women on the board, do ladies not support Charlton It also appears that all the MEN are British, do we not have ethnic supporters. Can the trust be democratic with such a small amount of followers, scaremongering to gain support is that not how the Nazis started. Where is the voice of young people on the board. Does the board have someone to represent the views of our extreme right wing supporters who attend the Valley in their thousands or just liberal lefties. And finally why have a picture of Chris Powell on the bottom on their front page, is he their Patrent Saint or something.
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Post by mortimerician on Aug 28, 2014 9:58:44 GMT
It was the G21 who done that. It is more than 1200 supporters there are about 7000 if you include unpaid members/email subscribers. I am starting to think that some of you on here (4 People spring to mind) would drink bleach or jump off of a moving train if Reams told you it was a good idea. Like you would if Bin Larden had asked you to. Although thankfully due to American Special forces long after due blowing his brains out that will not happen until you are with him in heavenheaven Is Bin Larden a chubby terrorist. A choux bomber?
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 10:07:07 GMT
Like you would if Bin Larden had asked you to. Although thankfully due to American Special forces long after due blowing his brains out that will not happen until you are with him in heavenheaven Is Bin Larden a chubby terrorist. A choux bomber? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 10:07:09 GMT
And how do you come to the conclusion that I am a Muslim terrorist when I am a Christian. You really are an idiot! Being called an idiot by you I will take as a compliment. As a supporter of the CAS T can you explain why there appears to be no Women on the board, do ladies not support Charlton It also appears that all the MEN are British, do we not have ethnic supporters. Can the trust be democratic with such a small amount of followers, scaremongering to gain support is that not how the Nazis started. Where is the voice of young people on the board. Does the board have someone to represent the views of our extreme right wing supporters who attend the Valley in their thousands or just liberal lefties. And finally why have a picture of Chris Powell on the bottom on their front page, is he their Patrent Saint or something. So you're accusing CAST of being racist and sexist when you accuse me of being a bin laden supporter because I'm against racism? Then you state these "racists" have a picture of a black man on their page... Tragic, like I said idiot!
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 10:10:53 GMT
Being called an idiot by you I will take as a compliment. As a supporter of the CAS T can you explain why there appears to be no Women on the board, do ladies not support Charlton It also appears that all the MEN are British, do we not have ethnic supporters. Can the trust be democratic with such a small amount of followers, scaremongering to gain support is that not how the Nazis started. Where is the voice of young people on the board. Does the board have someone to represent the views of our extreme right wing supporters who attend the Valley in their thousands or just liberal lefties. And finally why have a picture of Chris Powell on the bottom on their front page, is he their Patrent Saint or something. So you're accusing CAST of being racist and sexist when you accuse me of being a bin laden supporter because I'm against racism? Then you state these "racists" have a picture of a black man on their page... Tragic, like I said idiot! I am accusing no one of being Racist that is your little game. I am asking simple questions which you decline to answer as per usual, I think it is you who are the fool. By the way how is step dad has he been to Rotherham lately ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 10:32:37 GMT
So you're accusing CAST of being racist and sexist when you accuse me of being a bin laden supporter because I'm against racism? Then you state these "racists" have a picture of a black man on their page... Tragic, like I said idiot! I am accusing no one of being Racist that is your little game. I am asking simple questions which you decline to answer as per usual, I think it is you who are the fool. By the way how is step dad has he been to Rotherham lately ? So because my mum married a Muslim you accused me of being a terrorist follower?? And because he's a Muslim he must be one of the vulgar criminals you were referring to in the Rotherham thread? (Even though you stated they are Asians, he is not) And you wonder why I called YOU racist...?!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 10:42:10 GMT
get back on subject please
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 10:44:48 GMT
Desist, people. This is worse than one of Henry Irving's pointless arguments!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 10:46:04 GMT
Enough is enough, please stop all these racist accusations. This thread is entitled Calling on Charlton fans NOT to join the TRUST. Please get back on topic or I will lock this thread.
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Post by muttleycafc on Aug 28, 2014 10:48:33 GMT
I made a similar point on CL when the trust was being formed. I couldn’t support it because I didn’t and don’t see how a body of fans can hope to have a say in how an owner runs his/her business if the owner doesn’t want them to. It wasn’t about any respect or admiration for our then board, it was just in my opinion a waste of time and could only serve to mildly irritate. My position has mellowed slightly since them, and I can see a role for the trust, but only a co-operative one with the owners, working collaboratively on schemes to improve the matchday experience, improve attendances etc… But the trust needs to decide what it is as it needs the trust (excuse the pun) of the owner if it is going to have any impact.
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 10:51:39 GMT
I am accusing no one of being Racist that is your little game. I am asking simple questions which you decline to answer as per usual, I think it is you who are the fool. By the way how is step dad has he been to Rotherham lately ? So because my mum married a Muslim you accused me of being a terrorist follower?? And because he's a Muslim he must be one of the vulgar criminals you were referring to in the Rotherham thread? (Even though you stated they are Asians, he is not) And you wonder why I called YOU racist...?! Yet again you mis quote to mis lead and you still have chosen not to answer the question. All you do is assume a lot. i asked you before what the term racist means and am still waiting for you to give me an answer, if I get one I will let to know if by your definition I am a racist, and by the way I have looked at CAF T website and one of the board is a member of EDL so they ain't all bad
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 10:55:01 GMT
Lowernorthvince! I suggest you use the PM modules of this forum rather than use this thread for personal conversations.
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 11:01:22 GMT
Inkblot I suggest you read all my posts on this subject. My questions to Sadie are for all to read.. Don't even think of singling me out. You should have said the same to Sadie and lots of others for that matter including Reams. You surely don't want people thinking you are taking sides
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Post by fuzzydunlop on Aug 28, 2014 11:04:21 GMT
What he wants you to do is get back on topic or take this discussion elsewhere. This is (well was anyway) a discussion about the merits of joining the trust, not about racism. It's not about singling you out, just about getting back on topic.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 11:04:58 GMT
I never take sides my friend and I am locking this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 12:48:31 GMT
Perhaps members have now calmed down, so I have unlocked the thread.
All members, please note. You are requested politely to stick to the topic of a thread. If you wish to converse with another member which is not related to the topic, then kindly use the Private Message system we have. Thank you
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Post by seriouslyred on Aug 28, 2014 13:59:33 GMT
I believe that the fans should be consulted on the strategic direction of the club and one aim might be for the Trustees secure a small % equity share - not a veto, and most certainly not a place on any management board until such time as the Trust has the maturity and personnel to use that role responsibly. If you are looking for tangible examples then allow me to share: At Richard Murrays suggestion the chief commercial officer consulted with a group of fans from the fans forum and Trust...about 8 of us. Confidential material was distributed and four key proposals were discussed...Nothing whatsoever leaked during the embargo period. 1) £150 season tickets to win back lapsed fans - approved...sold out 2) moving the family corner to the East stand - rejected by the focus group and subsequently shelved 3) redesigning the crossbars proposal to enter and exit the bar from the front of the north upper - a great proposal with certain issues 4) complete reconfiguration of ticket prices in East and West "ready for the Premier League" with premium prices in the central two blocks The only real discussion point was the compulsory movement of 450 fans from the front of the North upper which was eventually dropped during the launch
Needless to say Airman Brown pissed on the whole thing from a great height and made it virtually impossible to write up a Trust appraisal of the rights and wrongs. I did not receive the detailed numbers and literature until the night before the launch at which point the Trust efforts went into lobbying for no compulsory moves (there are 350 non ST seats in that area) By 11am Ben Kensell and Katrien Meire had met and reversed the decision - the Trust covered this in its Friday lunchtime email and twitter to 5,000 fans... Mistakes get made as I said before but unfortunately some live their lives full of blame and regrets. I don't! Now it's confirmed that the club chairman is the guest speaker at the Trust Agm I suggest people interested go there to ask him and the Trust board their questions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 14:27:06 GMT
exactly my point, ol Dickeys tea party "At Richard Murrays suggestion the chief commercial officer consulted with a group of fans from the fans forum and Trust" WHO selected these people ?
I'll ask again , WHO voted and when did the vote take place for the Trust Board members. Where / when were the results of the democratic, ie not self selected, vote published for trust board members.
From where I'm sitting this is no more than a club within a club for self important meddlers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 14:28:01 GMT
That's impressive, seriouslyred.
Perhaps it is self-serving people like those you have mentioned in this thread who have given the whole issue of fans representation a bad name, and the Trust has been tarred with the same dirty brush (even if the egos we're talking about don't actually like the Trust because they can't call the shots).
I tend to agree with mutley when he writes : "I can see a role for the trust, but only a co-operative one with the owners, working collaboratively on schemes to improve the matchday experience, improve attendances etc… But the trust needs to decide what it is as it needs the trust (excuse the pun) of the owner if it is going to have any impact."
Some soul-searching needed before the AGM - and a clearer definition of purpose will hopefully emerge which will allay the reservations of people like me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 14:30:29 GMT
transparency is required to gain respect , self appointment is not representation of fans and has undertones of an ulterior motive / agenda.
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Post by seriouslyred on Aug 28, 2014 15:40:39 GMT
transparency is required to gain respect , self appointment is not representation of fans and has undertones of an ulterior motive / agenda. I would concur. Part of the Trust maturing is that it needs contested elections to illuminate the debate about direction...but who on this message board is standing at the Agm. To be precise, the board are not self appointed. Semantics perhaps but they were elected unopposed at the last election with one or two co-opted to fill gaps in skills or bodies. Publicising survey results was one way of discussing what fans believe and was often criticised by those who wish to have only a small clique ITK. But let me just add that we turned down the idea of setting up a new message board - popular idea but hard work and it would have duplicated services provided here and elsewhere. 50% of the Trust audience use Charlton Life and 50% don't so it was decided that a mix of articles about the Championship and Charlton (which secure 1-2,000 hits each) followed up by links to message boards was the way forwards to grow the audience and spread the message about sustainability - some fans think that whoever the owner is should just tip in more and more millions to feed their hobby! I commissioned many of those articles and met some very skilled and personable fans in the process. So it was a great project, warts and all but it was also very enjoyable and gave me some insight into CAFC and emarketing. I hope some other fans help to carry on and steer it through the years to come - the current board won't be there forever! I will call a halt now as things to do and not all about me! I thank you for the feedback.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 15:48:12 GMT
thanks SR , its the "small clique ITK" that I'm totally opposed to, its totally contradicts the ethos of a "Trust".
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Post by Reamsisgod on Aug 28, 2014 16:21:48 GMT
transparency is required to gain respect , self appointment is not representation of fans and has undertones of an ulterior motive / agenda. Two points AA SR part of reply to the What happened to the Trust thread I won't do a kiss and tell on Trust discussions with the club or around the G21 So much for transparency. Also when RM held discussions with 8 members of the trust At Richard Murrays suggestion the chief commercial officer consulted with a group of fans from the fans forum and Trust...about 8 of us. Confidential material was distributed and four key proposals were discussed...Nothing whatsoever leaked during the embargo period. About 8 of us were consulted wow out of 15,000 regular supporters who from the trust or a fans forum probably CL should decide what we should or should not know and why are such a small group able to make decisions for the vast majority. If RM or R D wants to find out what all supporters think or want from the club invest a few quid in a company that speicalises in conducting opinion polls and who is independent of club and supporter
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 16:57:28 GMT
Vince, I'm not thick , I don't need to go to a pig sty to know it stinks ,,, if you get my drift.
I'm still well in the camp of the "self appointed busy bodies" who love to have the "ITK power",, all be it what RM tells them lol . They then usually go on a forum giving it the old "we know something you don't" how childish is that, for fully grown "men", acting like school play ground imbeciles.
8 "members" ,,, cant think of a better description really .... I bet they thought they were ohhh so important when they sat down with ol tricky dickeys man ,,, lol
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Post by reamsofverse on Aug 28, 2014 17:36:15 GMT
Very well moderated Inkblot however why it went off topic was ridiculous, nice one sadie.
Back on subject how many who disagree with my views are actual members of the TRUST.
Are they arguing against my points or just arguing because it's me?
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Post by picksy on Aug 28, 2014 17:41:50 GMT
Reams. The Trust do not and have never expected to be involved in the running of Charlton Athletic. You have clearly just supported Reams' point about false advertising then. Or put another way, misleading statements to get more punters in. Is it done for the money? Obviously not. Is it to boost egos? Probably.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 17:49:12 GMT
I think andy has summed up the problem very astutely. The Trust claims to represent the fans,and eight people are then consulted on a confidential, non-disclosure basis which prevents them consulting those they profess to represent.
From what seriouslyred says, it appears that the outcome of these secretive discussions with the G8 was entirely positive. But it still required an elite group to act on behalf and in the name of a far larger group which they were not permitted to consult.
This is why I am uneasy about the Trust. I am reluctant to permit anyone - whether it is the Trust, the arrogant and discredited former 'fan's rep' Ben Hayes or the axe-grinding Everitt and his spiteful little fanzine - to claim to speak on my behalf, until they have earned my personal trust to do so.
Hayes and Everitt betrayed and pissed over the wider Charlton community they claimed to represent by pursuing self-serving agendas. Unfortunately, the Trust are suffering from an understandable 'once bitten, twice shy, and thrice never again' kick-back against these regretable past examples of fans being invited 'inside the tent'.
At the moment, I think I'd rather trust RD and Katrien to get on with the job than rely on Hayes/Everitt/G21/Trust/VOTV/CL or even Into The Valley to intercede on my behalf. In these days of social media, if I have an 'issue' I want to raise with the club, I can e-mail or text Katrien direct and be pretty confident that I will get a considered and reasoned reply.
I would love the Trust to work and to play a constructive role in what should be an on-going dialogue between the club's management and its supporters. But at the moment I remain to be convinced that it is fit for purpose in performing such a role.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 18:03:45 GMT
I make that 8 number an average fan ratio representation of around 2000-1 .....thud, and that's on a bad day in L1 !
with regards to trust , RD and Katrien , astute business people, RD worth over 500 million Euros,,
Hayes/Everitt/G21/VOTV/CL/ CAFC Trust Board, humm, self appointed ie un-elected so called representatives for me and my fellow 20-25 thousand potential fans....
I know who I trust with the coffers, in fact , they are RD's coffers, so he can do exactly what he wants with them !
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