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Post by se7sm on Nov 17, 2023 15:37:06 GMT
Everton have received an immediate 10-point deduction after being found to have breached the Premier League's profit and sustainability rules.
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Post by petetongthereturn on Nov 17, 2023 17:49:07 GMT
They will be fine.
Chelsea will be given a small points deduction when they can’t get relegated or get into Europe.
It’s a kind of cop out by the authorities.
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Post by manikin on Nov 17, 2023 18:23:34 GMT
Clubs have been relegated because rivals have cheated. I think they have got off light and should be automatically relegated at end of season.
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Post by kings hill addick on Nov 17, 2023 20:22:41 GMT
It does seem like they have missed a bullet by staying up, just, for several seasons when they were over spending and now they have a more settled side they have been given a punishment that will probably keep them in the bottom three for just a few weeks.
It does look like cheating pays off most of the time in football.
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Post by aaronaldo on Nov 17, 2023 21:40:52 GMT
I’m not sure this will be the last of the points deductions. Their form will be interesting now they are in relegation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2023 23:23:54 GMT
It's city they are after
Everton safe no issue
City 115 issues against them, will take 2 to 3 years but its another Rangers
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Post by se7sm on Nov 18, 2023 8:06:09 GMT
It's city they are after Everton safe no issue City 115 issues against them, will take 2 to 3 years but its another Rangers can we really see Man City getting relegated to the fourth division can’t see that happening money talks. Everton will probably appeal and get that 10 points reduced no doubt. With Sheffield United, Luton and Burnley, all looking poor teams probably the best time to get a points deduction, if you’re getting one. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2023 11:02:43 GMT
It's city they are after Everton safe no issue City 115 issues against them, will take 2 to 3 years but its another Rangers can we really see Man City getting relegated to the fourth division can’t see that happening money talks. Everton will probably appeal and get that 10 points reduced no doubt. With Sheffield United, Luton and Burnley, all looking poor teams probably the best time to get a points deduction, if you’re getting one. 10 points will stick If they wanted Everton last season was the one to give it to them, they would be down. This is a moment to get after City They will be now worried |
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Post by se7sm on Nov 18, 2023 11:11:15 GMT
can we really see Man City getting relegated to the fourth division can’t see that happening money talks. Everton will probably appeal and get that 10 points reduced no doubt. With Sheffield United, Luton and Burnley, all looking poor teams probably the best time to get a points deduction, if you’re getting one. 10 points will stick If they wanted Everton last season was the one to give it to them, they would be down. This is a moment to get after City They will be now worried Yes Leicester would probably have something to say about that. |
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Post by chertseyaddick on Nov 18, 2023 18:31:40 GMT
I'm not sure how much Everton have spent on plans to move to their new ground, but standard accounting rules allow that expenditure to be capitalised, not treated as annual expenditure as the Premiership have ruled. Absolute dogshit policing will get overturned in court. And then COVID. Rules should have been eased. Toffees will be safe, although relegation would give me a warm feeling.
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Post by seriouslyred on Nov 18, 2023 18:54:32 GMT
I'm not sure how much Everton have spent on plans to move to their new ground, but standard accounting rules allow that expenditure to be capitalised, not treated as annual expenditure as the Premiership have ruled. Absolute dogshit policing will get overturned in court. And then COVID. Rules should have been eased. Toffees will be safe, although relegation would give me a warm feeling. From reading about the ruling today Everton are claiming that many things went wrong at the same time, but the fact remains that their board were in charge and that they only changed their plea at the last minute. The stadium is indeed a capital investment but for some strange reason they ran it through a subsidiary but one that was only owned by the club. So they're culpable for all of the interest and facility fees for the financing. It appears that they weren't at all clear about whether these were interest free loans from the owner or not. Obviously they will appeal and perhaps the punishment might be reduced. But the integrity of the competition requires rules and sanctions for those who cheat. Sean Dyche is a decent manager and suspect that he will deliver enough to climb out of the bottom three. This given that they've won four games to date whereas the competition have only won once each all season. |
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Post by chertseyaddick on Nov 18, 2023 19:17:57 GMT
We look forward to another monied North West club facing similar sanctions, and perhaps one in West London together with an East London neighbour who has been in receipt of massive subsidies from Greater London taxpayers.
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Post by manikin on Nov 18, 2023 19:19:47 GMT
Assuming they appeal and lose the penalty should be increased.
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Post by aucklandaddick on Nov 18, 2023 22:18:06 GMT
Big big pressure on the PL now to deal with the Man City, Chelsea issues
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Post by earlpurple on Nov 21, 2023 13:37:32 GMT
And all of a sudden it is blowing up. I don't even know what the FFP rules are in the Premier League and what was broken. I do know clubs all over all the leagues have big benefactors, and that has become far too big a part of the game.
In some ways I am not totally against the fact that with the help of benefactors, Chelsea and Manchester City were able to compete with the bigger clubs, because I never liked the monopoly and I'm sure the die-hard fans of those clubs were happy to see their teams become more competitive. That Chelsea poached Scott Parker along the way mid-season is more of an issue of not having more restrictive rules in that transfer window than where they got the money. That Manchester City have got so far ahead now that the league is not competitive is too dangerous for me. But when the same 4 teams finished in the top 4 for several years in a row - whether they broke rules or not - it felt their constant presence in the Champions League was putting too big a gulf between them and the rest of the league.
That many Charlton fans feel the way for us to achieve success is billionaire owners pumping in big money, and that maybe we're disappointed they're not "buying" us our way to promotion like other clubs have done (like Wrexham in the National League last season) shows partly the state football is in.
I'd be interested to know if Methven has done another podcast yet to discuss Everton and Manchester City.
Of course there's no chance they'll revoke Manchester City's league title of 1937 which is the only one I'd care about, and I think awarding the leagues retrospectively to the teams that came 2nd now will even give those teams the feeling of "well we weren't really champions". And the benefactors would be Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal, who have won plenty of genuine titles anyway.
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Post by Mundell on Nov 22, 2023 7:07:47 GMT
Worth bearing in mind that Manchester City is now consistently profitable and that the club will comfortably comply with UEFA’s Squad Cost Control Ratio. What the owners of Manchester City did, therefore, was invest significantly in the club (players, infrastructure etc.) in order to create a successful and sustainable business model.
It might be argued that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with this. Indeed, arguably, its best practice and standard business management. The question, of course, is whether they bent the rules and deceived the Premier League to get to this position. Only time will tell.
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Post by se7sm on Nov 30, 2023 17:56:06 GMT
Man City and Premier League 'AGREE' trial date with champions facing huge points deduction if guilty of rule breaches
The Premier League champions could face serious sanctions if found guilty
MANCHESTER CITY have agreed a trial date with the Premier League to address allegations they violated Financial Fair Play rules.
The defending Premier League champions were hit with a whopping 115 breaches of FFP rules in February.City and Prem chiefs have been going back and forth with one another for several months over a hearing to address the alleged violations.
And according to reports, both parties have agreed a date.
That’s according to The Daily Mail, who claim the trial – which will be behind closed doors – will get underway next autumn.
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Post by se7sm on Feb 26, 2024 15:05:25 GMT
Everton's punishment for breaching Premier League financial rules has been reduced from 10 points to six after an appeal.
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Post by manikin on Feb 26, 2024 15:40:18 GMT
Everton's punishment for breaching Premier League financial rules has been reduced from 10 points to six after an appeal. So cheating pays. Unbelievable! |
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Post by se7sm on Feb 26, 2024 15:44:28 GMT
Yes Luton will be happy
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Post by sittingbourne11 on Feb 26, 2024 15:45:29 GMT
They have still lost 6 points and all the excess money they have spent was on the building a new ground. Obviously there accountants are not as good as Spurs & Arsenal in the past.
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Post by watameires on Feb 26, 2024 16:05:00 GMT
They’re also going to get hit again with further points deduction before end of season - ~another six points or so
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Post by se7sm on Feb 26, 2024 16:15:34 GMT
The premier league are a joke, if you give someone 10 points deduction, that’s it not reduce it because you might have to give them more points later and they could get relegated .
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Post by aaronaldo on Feb 26, 2024 16:39:38 GMT
The premier league are a joke, if you give someone 10 points deduction, that’s it not reduce it because you might have to give them more points later and they could get relegated . Tend to agree with this. They should've got the punishment right first time. This changes the challenge of fellow relegation teams overnight for no fault of their own. Luton etc are now further away from safety. As an aside, aren't Man City still being investigated for breaches? That was raised far earlier than this one wasn't it? How's that going... |
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Post by manikin on Feb 26, 2024 16:49:13 GMT
I'm damn sure if it was a "smaller" Premiership side the penalty would be harsher and they would already be in a position they couldn't get out of.
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Post by Mundell on Feb 26, 2024 17:05:17 GMT
The premier league are a joke, if you give someone 10 points deduction, that’s it not reduce it because you might have to give them more points later and they could get relegated . Tend to agree with this. They should've got the punishment right first time. This changes the challenge of fellow relegation teams overnight for no fault of their own. Luton etc are now further away from safety. As an aside, aren't Man City still being investigated for breaches? That was raised far earlier than this one wasn't it? How's that going... The problem with sporting sanctions of this type is that the Premier League doesn’t decide them. The original ten points deduction was determined by an Independent Tribunal and this appeal was heard by a different Independent Tribunal which found fault with the original decision. It’s all completely ridiculous, but very hard for the Premier League (or the EFL) to manage. Everton cheated quite deliberately, by no small margin either, and gained an advantage in the seasons during which they overspent, potentially enabling them to avoid relegation. They will, however, now survive comfortably this season with their only penalty being be the loss of a merit payment based on League table position. Cheating will have paid. What’s worse is that Everton have been charged with cheating again, based on their 2022-23 accounts. That case must be heard by April 8th. However, if that leads to another points deduction Everton will be able to appeal that decision too and that appeal would not take place until after the end of the season. In other words, it’s entirely possible that Everton will be found guilty of cheating twice without the sporting sanctions imposed have any material impact this season. To add insult to injury, the much heralded Football Regulator (IREF) has already said it will not impose sporting sanctions and will, instead, leave that to the relevant football authorities. That’s obviously an entirely political decision (docking points from football clubs isn’t a vote winner even if it’s the right thing to do) that makes it very clear that the IREF is an entirely populist initiative that in all likelihood will make no practical difference to the way football is governed. |
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Post by manikin on Feb 26, 2024 17:25:29 GMT
Teams that have cheated in the past-
Derby 9 points deducted after a 12 point deduction for going into administration. I believe these were imposed over two seasons.
Leeds 15 points deducted after a 10 points deduction for going into administration.
Luton 30 points deducted.
Coventry 10 points deducted.
Wednesday 12 points deducted
Reading have been deducted 6 points for three seasons in a row.
I wonder how many teams have been unjustly relegated due to the cheating of others.
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Post by aaronaldo on Feb 26, 2024 18:07:27 GMT
Tend to agree with this. They should've got the punishment right first time. This changes the challenge of fellow relegation teams overnight for no fault of their own. Luton etc are now further away from safety. As an aside, aren't Man City still being investigated for breaches? That was raised far earlier than this one wasn't it? How's that going... The problem with sporting sanctions of this type is that the Premier League doesn’t decide them. The original ten points deduction was determined by an Independent Tribunal and this appeal was heard by a different Independent Tribunal which found fault with the original decision. It’s all completely ridiculous, but very hard for the Premier League (or the EFL) to manage. Everton cheated quite deliberately, by no small margin either, and gained an advantage in the seasons during which they overspent, potentially enabling them to avoid relegation. They will, however, now survive comfortably this season with their only penalty being be the loss of a merit payment based on League table position. Cheating will have paid. What’s worse is that Everton have been charged with cheating again, based on their 2022-23 accounts. That case must be heard by April 8th. However, if that leads to another points deduction Everton will be able to appeal that decision too and that appeal would not take place until after the end of the season. In other words, it’s entirely possible that Everton will be found guilty of cheating twice without the sporting sanctions imposed have any material impact this season. To add insult to injury, the much heralded Football Regulator (IREF) has already said it will not impose sporting sanctions and will, instead, leave that to the relevant football authorities. That’s obviously an entirely political decision (docking points from football clubs isn’t a vote winner even if it’s the right thing to do) that makes it very clear that the IREF is an entirely populist initiative that in all likelihood will make no practical difference to the way football is governed. Who’s to say this latest punishment is correct though? Other teams could appeal and the next ‘independent’ review could say 10 points wasn’t enough. The real issue to me is the fact the deduction gets announced and gets applied immediately. Surely if there were rounds to review/appeal then the decision hasn’t realistically be made? I.e. The deduction (and league position) isn’t changed until the penalty is confirmed. Therefore, the other teams understand there’s likely to be a reduction but they can’t guarantee how much until it’s confirmed and then applied. |
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Post by ashaddick on Feb 26, 2024 18:10:10 GMT
They have still lost 6 points and all the excess money they have spent was on the building a new ground. Obviously there accountants are not as good as Spurs & Arsenal in the past. That’s not true, their spending on the new stadium was taken into account and if it wasn’t for that their points deduction could have been higher. |
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Post by kings hill addick on Feb 26, 2024 18:10:36 GMT
Teams that have cheated in the past- Derby 9 points deducted after a 12 point deduction for going into administration. I believe these were imposed over two seasons. Leeds 15 points deducted after a 10 points deduction for going into administration. Luton 30 points deducted. Coventry 10 points deducted. Wednesday 12 points deducted Reading have been deducted 6 points for three seasons in a row. I wonder how many teams have been unjustly relegated due to the cheating of others. If Sheffield Wednesday had been docked points in the season that they were charged they would have gone down in 2020 instead of us. However, it is what it is. Both Wednesday and Derby were relegated when their sanctions were imposed, as were Wigan (for Administration) and Reading last season, if I remember correctly. Leeds were docked extra points after going into Administration 24 hours before the deadline, for the punishment to be applied the following season - when they were already relegated and that cost them a top two place and they failed in the playoffs 2008. Ultimately Leeds failed to win promotion for two more seasons. There is little doubt that these punishments have had an impact, all be it that other clubs benefited than might have done if the sanctions had been applied quicker. In Everton's case the punishment was always going to be reduced. This is what tends to happen when a non-standard sanction is applied. I suspect that it will make little difference. Everton were, in my opinion, always going to climb out of trouble. They have a much better squad than the promoted teams and the players, as well as, and especially, the manager have more experience of a Premier League relegation battle. I would have loved Everton to be relegated but I don't think it was going to happen. Forest, on the other hand, will be bang in trouble if they lose six points. However, the three promoted teams have been so poor this season that this was the year to have a sanction applied. Swap any two of those three with Southampton, Leicester or Leeds and it would have been a very different story. It just comes down to luck in the end. I have a feeling that if Man City fail to win the Premier League yet finish fifteen points above the team in 6th place (or if they win the Champions League) then they will negotiate a fifteen point deduction to be applied to this season, in exchange for saving the Premier League tens of millions of pounds, in legal costs, that would apply if City drag their heels through every court in the land, and Europe, and the world. Who says one can't buy 'justice'. |
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