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Post by Mundell on Jan 20, 2020 9:24:55 GMT
The potential partnership with Al Ain FC is very exciting. Just think. Under Roland Duchâtelet’s miserable regime we had to tolerate players like Tal Ben Haim (permanent), Yoni Buyens and Frederic Bulot (both loans) joining from Standard Liege. The fact they became our best players wasn’t the point. Now we can look forward to French teenager Idriss Mzaouiyani and ageing former Japanese international Tsukasa Shiotani (had to be careful how I spelt that) joining to bolster the squad. The potential is clear for all to see. Unfortunately, for those who enjoyed their day trips to Sint-Truiden, excursions to scout our next signings from Al Ain will be a bit more challenging to organise. This link up to a Club in Abu Dhabi is very worrying, it doesn't work. Who can forget some of the dross we got from Duchatelet's clubs. Thuram? It also smacks of incredible naivety. Also, commercial enterprises with their own shareholders don’t waste money ‘sponsoring’ entities they have no possible connection with just because someone they know wants them to. There are more holes in what we are being told by ESI than you’d find in a Rab C Nesbitt string vest.
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Post by Mundell on Jan 20, 2020 10:01:09 GMT
Here’s an interview with Matt Southall, dated today and from the same newspaper. Sounds great, especially the stuff about the training ground etc. Can we believe it though? That’s a genuine question. Not a statement.
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Post by 1978sussex on Jan 20, 2020 10:13:19 GMT
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Post by MurciaAl on Jan 20, 2020 10:16:27 GMT
And Lee gets it. He’s used to working within constrained budgets.
“I know if I put him in front of a player he will sell the club to that player. Lee’s a legend; he’s played at Newcastle [United], Leeds [United], and he’s a good guy. He will move the club forward.”
I'd love to know how constrained the budget is?
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Post by jeddez on Jan 20, 2020 10:44:08 GMT
Here’s an interview with Matt Southall, dated today and from the same newspaper. Sounds great, especially the stuff about the training ground etc. Can we believe it though? That’s a genuine question. Not a statement. What has he lied about thus far to question his integrity? I for one prefer a sustainable model, we were that model for years under Curbs and Murray and we need to find to right formula again.
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Post by earlpurple on Jan 20, 2020 11:09:18 GMT
Taking care financially of a possible relegation is a good thing. Some investment in the first team now so that doesn't happen without breaking the bank is needed and we need to bring back a feel-good factor and that would happen by staying up this season, not going up next season.
We need more experienced players to help us get through this. Loan players from the Premier League or maybe even La Liga, Bundesliga or Serie A, but not United Arab Emirates please...
The whole idea was we could match other teams in our own division but we couldn't match Swansea in paying Gallagher's wages?
Great to build up the training ground and academy but we are way behind all the other teams in this division except perhaps Luton and it's showing and we need serious investment in the first team now.
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Post by AndyAddick on Jan 20, 2020 11:11:24 GMT
Here’s an interview with Matt Southall, dated today and from the same newspaper. Sounds great, especially the stuff about the training ground etc. Can we believe it though? That’s a genuine question. Not a statement. actions speak louder than words, hes quoted as also saying relegation inst an issue , well it is for the fans ! Banging on about the commercial side, thinks hes going to fill the stadium with average shite football in L1 , think again Matty
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Post by earlpurple on Jan 20, 2020 11:27:30 GMT
If we were bottom at this point and we didn't stay up we might have accepted it more than being 5 points above the relegation zone but getting sucked into it.
I know how we built a team in League One before and with a bigger budget it should be easier this time, but last season and in 2011 we'd been stuck in League One for a while. This time we have been taken over with our team in the Championship and want to stay here.
Of course Norwich went down with us in 2009 then got back to back promotions, so such a plan is possible, I guess. Sheffield United recently got 2 promotions in 3 seasons. Southampton did back-to-back promotions too just after Norwich, and Leicester might have done had Yann not chipped his penalty but when they did finally go up, they went on to win the title 2 years later. Wolves also recovered from back to back relegations in 2012 and 2013 to go back up to the Premier League and do quite well there.
We can afford some losses, we can't afford to bring in players that will give us a huge wage bill next season with us in League One so there would have to be relegation clauses in any such contracts, and there will be a feeling on unease in the squad as these things happen, it did at Manchester City and it took a couple of seasons, but they started showing they meant business and attracted the big player in eventually.
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Post by reamsofverse on Jan 20, 2020 11:57:19 GMT
If we go down this season and it takes four years to come back up, there's your five year plan.
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Post by Mundell on Jan 20, 2020 12:02:44 GMT
Here’s an interview with Matt Southall, dated today and from the same newspaper. Sounds great, especially the stuff about the training ground etc. Can we believe it though? That’s a genuine question. Not a statement. What has he lied about thus far to question his integrity? I for one prefer a sustainable model, we were that model for years under Curbs and Murray and we need to find to right formula again. In my experience, its very rare for people to tell outright lies and I'm certainly not accusing Matt Southall of that. Sometimes though you need to read between the lines to know what people are actually saying. Most fans believed that ESI owned the Valley. Matt Southall said ESI had bought the club 'lock, stock and barrel'. The evidence, in the form of what ESI had actually bought (Charlton Athletic Football Company Limited), suggested it may be a bit more complicated than it seemed. Matt Southall hadn't lied, but it was clearly necessary to interpret what he said somewhat carefully. There may be caveats around the plans for the training ground which we don't know about, for example.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 12:03:34 GMT
Quite a good take on the current state of things. On the side of optimistic.
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Post by Mundell on Jan 20, 2020 12:10:06 GMT
If we go down this season and it takes four years to come back up, there's your five year plan. Couldn't agree more. League One is a tough Division to escape from and relegation would be a disaster. The club would lose £7m plus of revenues and face another tough battle to return to the Championship. During each of the last three seasons we had a top six wage budget (at least) and yet still took three seasons to win promotion; even then only via the lottery of the playoffs. Duchatelet got very lucky with the sales of Lookman, Konsa and Grant during this period. Otherwise he'd have lost money hand over fist.
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Post by reamsofverse on Jan 20, 2020 12:25:58 GMT
If we go down this season and it takes four years to come back up, there's your five year plan. Couldn't agree more. League One is a tough Division to escape from and relegation would be a disaster. The club would lose £7m plus of revenues and face another tough battle to return to the Championship. During each of the last three seasons we had a top six wage budget (at least) and yet still took three seasons to win promotion; even then only via the lottery of the playoffs. Duchatelet got very lucky with the sales of Lookman, Konsa and Grant during this period. Otherwise he'd have lost money hand over fist. This is the thing Chris. They will no doubt write off the £7m if we went down yet if they spent that now on new players we would stay up.
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Post by squareball on Jan 20, 2020 12:42:57 GMT
The comparisons are all there for us to see. MS ...big smile and making all the right noises to begin but but not quite being truthful = KM MS ...we’re a selling club and will develop kids until they are sold to further their careers =KM ...albeit she phrased it differently ESI refuses to overpay players wages and are looking for bargains = RD model....which everyone hated and many were prepared to protest or boycott. ESI looking at lower leagues for young hungry players with sell on potential = RD....see above RD network and now possible ESI network....Aussies talked about this too. Top striker offered contract didn’t sign YK= LT Fans legend in charge CP= LB KM zero experience at running a club =MS RD leaving an inexperienced person to run the club in his absence = HE RD relegated and protest....can lightning strike twice? Hopefully not. Never trust an owner especially one that’s put a rookie in charge who just says what fans want to hear before it slowly unravels .
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Post by earlpurple on Jan 20, 2020 12:47:50 GMT
But RD's appointment took over with us in the bottom 3 and kept us up at least that season and even got us safe mid-table the following season . We are outside the bottom 3 but may go down.
There is only one good thing - we don't have a bunch of poor players signed to the club on high wages that we can't get rid of. Those are the worst liabilities and there's a danger in putting ourselves in that predicament with rush signings.
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Post by jonkool on Jan 20, 2020 12:56:59 GMT
And Lee gets it. He’s used to working within constrained budgets. “I know if I put him in front of a player he will sell the club to that player. Lee’s a legend; he’s played at Newcastle [United], Leeds [United], and he’s a good guy. He will move the club forward.” I'd love to know how constrained the budget is? Wouldn't we all Al
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Post by earlpurple on Jan 20, 2020 13:56:04 GMT
I don't quite get the massive hikes just because we have wealth. We don't have to offer what they ask, we just need to offer more than any of our competitors.
I have worked for major companies with loads of money. Didn't mean I could ask for whatever salary I wanted but they did compete with other big companies who hire similar kind of staff when they have to pick their salary.
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Post by kings hill addick on Jan 20, 2020 14:03:22 GMT
I don’t want to come across as cynical but didn’t RD have big plans for the Training Ground?
I’ve met very few people that didn’t have big plans for something.
What they need to do, both to be successful in general and to win the fans over is change the fortunes on the pitch. It is, after all, a football club. The name’s in the title.
There are several ways that results can improve, we all know them but wanting it, and/or being lucky is, probably, not going to be enough.
We need better players than we, currently, have available. Loans or permanent signings doesn’t, really, matter. Just for reference, like Bowyer, I think that the young players have been brilliant, but they are not of the required quality yet. They may well all go on to have great careers in the Championship, or above, but they are not ready to be such a large proportion of the first eleven yet.
If we don’t bring in players we may well stay up. If that happens then those running the club can be lauded. They can then make the signings that they want in the summer to push on. If we don’t bring in players and go down then those running the club will suffer a backlash.
I have been rather patient with RD on the whole, and appreciated that he was trying to sell so wasn’t going to invest heavily in the squad. If we don’t sign players and go down we will put the club at least twelve months back - probably more and I’m not sure I would renew my season ticket and I’m probably not alone in that.
If we sign decent players and still go down it’s different because then I will feel as though a decent effort has been made to save our season. Even RD threw money at staying up for three seasons, and was successful in two of them.
So after all the bragging about how much money the club has Southall has got to pay top dollar for players now. You can’t have it both ways, you can’t boast about your wealth and then expect someone to sell you something cheap or work for you for modest wages.
The whole ‘I won’t be taken for a mug’ routine from an insignificant player in world football, that has ‘convinced’ wealthy investors to buy him a club to play with, doesn’t work. The football agents and the players are going to play hard ball and the closer we get to the end of January the more bullish they are going to get, because we are going to look more and more desperate.
I am hoping that the statement about relegation being ok is a message to players and their agents. I’m hoping it’s a message to clubs that are trying to use our precarious situation to squeeze more money out of the self confessed super rich club.
We all assume that the constant stream of PR from Southall is for the fan’s benefit. I hope that he is clever enough to be doing a lot more than that. His nerves in front of the camera do not confirm if he is a very clever man or not. Unfortunately the ‘misleading’ comments about the property assets ownership, and how quickly someone spotted it suggests that Mr Southall is, perhaps, not as clever as he thinks he is. Time will tell.
In any event the time to judge him (them) is on 1st Feb because by then we will know, exactly, what the new ownership are willing and able to do to save our season.
Until then it’s pretty much all noise.
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brian
Season Ticket Holder
Season and VG member
Posts: 116
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Post by brian on Jan 20, 2020 14:51:03 GMT
Lets hit the high notes! That the owners have a vision and a strong commitment to the club and have made a plan so clear and visible demonstrates that they regard us all as stakeholders going forward, management, players, staff, fans.
What has been described is consistent with the values of our chant "we have our Charlton back". The vision is clear and strong and we should support it wholeheartedly. If you think their statements are noise rather than strong signals adjust your antenna.
In this light there is no point slagging off these owners and as for "judging" and "backlash" remember that they are commited to success not for failure and that's what MS is selling is a commercially sustainable strategy for every level in the club. Clearly defining goals and the path to their achevement, timing change actions , assigning resources and applying them. We should all buy into the strategy. And on the footballing side of things Lee supposes and Matt disposes.
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Post by AndyAddick on Jan 20, 2020 15:23:13 GMT
Lets hit the high notes! That the owners have a vision and a strong commitment to the club and have made a plan so clear and visible demonstrates that they regard us all as stakeholders going forward, management, players, staff, fans. What has been described is consistent with the values of our chant "we have our Charlton back". The vision is clear and strong and we should support it wholeheartedly. If you think their statements are noise rather than strong signals adjust your antenna. In this light there is no point slagging off these owners and as for "judging" and "backlash" remember that they are commited to success not for failure and that's what MS is selling is a commercially sustainable strategy for every level in the club. Clearly defining goals and the path to their achevement, timing change actions , assigning resources and applying them. We should all buy into the strategy. And on the footballing side of things Lee supposes and Matt disposes. 1 win in 16 league games , high points eh ,,,, we have dropped 17 points from winning positions this season.
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Post by jeddez on Jan 20, 2020 15:31:41 GMT
Lets hit the high notes! That the owners have a vision and a strong commitment to the club and have made a plan so clear and visible demonstrates that they regard us all as stakeholders going forward, management, players, staff, fans. What has been described is consistent with the values of our chant "we have our Charlton back". The vision is clear and strong and we should support it wholeheartedly. If you think their statements are noise rather than strong signals adjust your antenna. In this light there is no point slagging off these owners and as for "judging" and "backlash" remember that they are commited to success not for failure and that's what MS is selling is a commercially sustainable strategy for every level in the club. Clearly defining goals and the path to their achevement, timing change actions , assigning resources and applying them. We should all buy into the strategy. And on the footballing side of things Lee supposes and Matt disposes. 1 win in 16 league games , high points eh ,,,, we have dropped 17 points from winning positions this season. Season runs til May!!!
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Post by earlpurple on Jan 20, 2020 15:42:37 GMT
1 win in 16 league games , high points eh ,,,, we have dropped 17 points from winning positions this season. Season runs til May!!! and transfer window until 31 January and today is 20 January so we are two thirds of the way in, have gained one player on loan and also lost a key player. All this "we had to buy the club now and wait until later to buy the training ground" was supposedly so they could invest in the transfer window.
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Post by jeddez on Jan 20, 2020 16:14:35 GMT
and transfer window until 31 January and today is 20 January so we are two thirds of the way in, have gained one player on loan and also lost a key player. All this "we had to buy the club now and wait until later to buy the training ground" was supposedly so they could invest in the transfer window. We have already been told how this window works. We can strive to get players in over the whole of Jan but it’s not til the end when most business is done, been like that for many years!!! Investment will happen, just be patient
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Post by AndyAddick on Jan 20, 2020 16:55:56 GMT
1 win in 16 league games , high points eh ,,,, we have dropped 17 points from winning positions this season. Season runs til May!!! Transfer windows run for days !
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Post by cafc2002 on Jan 20, 2020 16:56:21 GMT
Dont remember old Roly getting as much stick in the 1st couple of weeks of his tenure as ESI are getting, absolutely pathetic tbh.
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Post by earlpurple on Jan 20, 2020 16:57:24 GMT
And what will happen when the Sheikh and the others behind it find out that they cannot make profit in football and will be asked to pour money in to achieve success on the pitch but not get any of it back?
Is this an investment or a hobby? Because many a wealthy person has put their money into football clubs only to find out that on the whole there is no profit to be made there
Some will use it as free advertising, e.g. Emirates sponsor arsenal and whenever Arsenal play on TV, Emirates' name is mentioned and they get advertising. So they can budget it as advertising revenue.
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Post by squareball on Jan 20, 2020 17:00:27 GMT
and transfer window until 31 January and today is 20 January so we are two thirds of the way in, have gained one player on loan and also lost a key player. All this "we had to buy the club now and wait until later to buy the training ground" was supposedly so they could invest in the transfer window. Makes you wonder why they didn’t buy the whole thing in the summer. If we were relegated then they walk away or buy us for less money.
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Post by jeddez on Jan 20, 2020 17:30:57 GMT
Transfer windows run for days ! You obviously have no idea how transfers work Andy, easy spending other people’s money though... Anyway, we’ll strengthen before it shuts and that’s the main thing...
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Post by ExeterAddick on Jan 20, 2020 18:02:20 GMT
Dont remember old Roly getting as much stick in the 1st couple of weeks of his tenure as ESI are getting, absolutely pathetic tbh. A lot of our fans are like abused dogs. For understandable reasons, they’re finding it very difficult to trust another owner.
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Post by cafc2002 on Jan 20, 2020 18:41:23 GMT
Dont remember old Roly getting as much stick in the 1st couple of weeks of his tenure as ESI are getting, absolutely pathetic tbh. A lot of our fans are like abused dogs. For understandable reasons, they’re finding it very difficult to trust another owner. Seemed to trust him at first, now because he hasn't spent stupid money its changed.
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