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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 19:43:46 GMT
It isn't really a matter of degree. it's a matter of principle. Every individual Charlton fan either supports Duchatelet by paying him money, or he/she doesn't support him by not paying him anything. The amount is irrelevant. Getting in to see a match on a kid's ticket might make some fans feel good about themselves, but they are no different from another fan who pays full price, or one who hires a box or a hospitality package or subscribes to Valley Gold or Valley Pass. If you pay CAFC one penny, you're supporting Duchatelet. At least you didn't call people apologists.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2019 22:24:49 GMT
At least you didn't call people apologists. A term used in reaction to an opinion or point of view expressed - what somebody has said. A term I've used myself in the past, though I try not to use it anymore as I recognise it is offensive to some other members here, and in my view it also belongs (along with some other unkind terms) to an unhappier time of greater division between fans; one which Lee Bowyer is now taking us forward from. Just to clarify, my earlier post refers entirely to the action of paying money to the Club, which Duchatelet wholly owns. Not the words (opinions or arguments) posted by any Charlton fan. Those of us who buy a season ticket, or any other kind of ticket - including a kids' one - or buy any other product or service provided by CAFC, are supporting Duchatelet by the action of paying money to him. Any opinions we may express about him are words of course, not actions. And there is an important difference there. In my case, ever since I began posting on Charlton fans' forums my words and my actions have contradicted each other. Though I have from time to time considered not renewing my season ticket, in reality I have renewed it every season since 2007. So I have been supporting Duchatelet by my actions for every day that he has been CAFC owner. All of my words of opposition towards him during that time have been empty ones - the hollow rattlings of a hypocrite. I can't turn time back and unsay any of those things now, but I can end the contradiction by not continuing to oppose RD with words while I support him with my actions. Other fans can up their own minds as to any possible contradictions between what they say and how they act in relation to the current CAFC owner.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 5:33:55 GMT
@lardiman
Getting rid of the owner is a guerilla war, and depriving him of ticket revenue is a legitimate tactic many will think.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 5:57:22 GMT
@lardiman Getting rid of the owner is a guerilla war, and depriving him of ticket revenue is a legitimate tactic many will think. I do respect your point of view Royston. And I appreciate my most recent post can be interpreted as devaluing or belittling the efforts of protesting Charlton fans, and possibly trivialising the real anger they felt and maybe still feel about the way RD ran/runs CAFC. At the time I posted my many anti-RD messages I believed in what I was saying. I'm not saying now that all of my arguments were wrong or ill-conceived, though I admit I have made mistakes and over-reacted many times. All I was trying to say is that I should not have expressed those views if I was not willing to make my actions match my words. On furums I have opposed RD many times. In reality I have paid him something like £2,500 since 2014 (season tickets & programme purchases mostly, though I did give up buying programmes a few years ago).
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Post by hairyhotdog on Aug 25, 2019 6:09:02 GMT
@lardiman Getting rid of the owner is a guerilla war, and depriving him of ticket revenue is a legitimate tactic many will think. Royston , I truly believe this when I say this.... Not ONE person yesterday who fraudulently obtained entrance to the Valley on a kids ticket , got through that gate , up the stairs , onto the concourse , and said to themselves inside “Fuck you Roland , I’ve done you out of a tenner...!!(or whatever it’s is...) “ Some people like the buzz of avoiding train fares , jibbing into racecourses for free , pinching a newspaper from the stand outside petrol garages and getting into football grounds for free or the price of a child , it’s just the way some people are wired.. All of the above are wrong and shouldn’t be celebrated , and the word Roland/RD/Douchebag etc etc shouldn’t be mentioned on this thread anywhere as it’s absolutely nothing to do with him , unless that is , you love talking about him/have a secret crush on him....
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Post by hairyhotdog on Aug 25, 2019 6:12:14 GMT
@lardiman Getting rid of the owner is a guerilla war, and depriving him of ticket revenue is a legitimate tactic many will think. I do respect your point of view Royston. And I appreciate my most recent post can be interpreted as devaluing or belittling the efforts of protesting Charlton fans, and possibly trivialising the real anger they felt and maybe still feel about the way RD ran/runs CAFC. At the time I posted my many anti-RD messages I believed in what I was saying. I'm not saying now that all of my arguments were wrong or ill-conceived, though I admit I have made mistakes and over-reacted many times. All I was trying to say is that I should not have expressed those views if I was not willing to make my actions match my words. On furums I have opposed RD many times. In reality I have paid him something like £2,500 since 2014 (season tickets & programme purchases mostly, though I did give up buying programmes a few years ago). All due respect lardi, but this is a thread about people fraudulently gaining entry into the Valley , not another thread about Roland...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 6:14:18 GMT
Agree - it’s not a protest against RD. People just trying it on....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 6:17:39 GMT
Agree - it’s not a protest against RD. People just trying it on.... That’s categorically wrong mate. In the same way that thousands of fans have boycotted the Valley to deprive Duchâtelet of money, many others have decided to attend, support the team they love, and still deprive the Belgian helmet of dough. They are heroes.
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Post by hairyhotdog on Aug 25, 2019 6:19:57 GMT
Agree - it’s not a protest against RD. People just trying it on.... That’s categorically wrong mate. In the same way that thousands of fans have boycotted the Valley to deprive Duchâtelet of money, many others have decided to attend, support the team they love, and still deprive the Belgian helmet of dough. They are heroes. No , if there is actually anyone doing that which I very much doubt , then they aren’t hero’s they are saddo’s.... Royston , mate , this stuff , this is all in your head...
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Post by hairyhotdog on Aug 25, 2019 6:23:23 GMT
Agree - it’s not a protest against RD. People just trying it on.... That’s categorically wrong mate. In the same way that thousands of fans have boycotted the Valley to deprive Duchâtelet of money, many others have decided to attend, support the team they love, and still deprive the Belgian helmet of dough. They are heroes. Also “thousands boycotting....” 🤔 I think there are 178 at the last count.....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 6:41:30 GMT
All due respect lardi, but this is a thread about people fraudulently gaining entry into the Valley , not another thread about Roland... Indeed. I have wandered off-topic. My only defence is that some fans (Royston for example) are claiming that paying less than the proper amount for tickets is part of an anti-RD campaign. Personally I'll admit I am not convinced that every adult supporter who gets into the Valley with a kids' ticket is doing it on principle, though I also accept that some are. My view on this practice is that it is wrong (as it is clearly breaking ticket rules) and I personally would not do it. However there is no safety issue involved as far as I can see, and I guess those fans who are doing it as part of their stand against the owner feel they can justify it for that reason. Whether or not a fan who does this is bothered by his/her conscience about it is something only they will know. Those who post about doing it on forums or social media are presumably not very troubled in that regard. But as Royston says, the view among many protesters may now be that opposing RD is a 'guerilla war' and tactics which cross the line of rule breaking - though hopefully not so far as to compromise safety - are necessary, if regrettable.
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Post by elfsborgfranboras on Aug 25, 2019 7:29:13 GMT
It isn't really a matter of degree. it's a matter of principle. Every individual Charlton fan either supports Duchatelet by paying him money, or he/she doesn't support him by not paying him anything. The amount is irrelevant. Getting in to see a match on a kid's ticket might make some fans feel good about themselves, but they are no different from another fan who pays full price, or one who hires a box or a hospitality package or subscribes to Valley Gold or Valley Pass. If you pay CAFC one penny, you're supporting Duchatelet. I was happy giving Ampthill £13.50 yesterday.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 7:33:19 GMT
It isn't really a matter of degree. it's a matter of principle. Every individual Charlton fan either supports Duchatelet by paying him money, or he/she doesn't support him by not paying him anything. The amount is irrelevant. Getting in to see a match on a kid's ticket might make some fans feel good about themselves, but they are no different from another fan who pays full price, or one who hires a box or a hospitality package or subscribes to Valley Gold or Valley Pass. If you pay CAFC one penny, you're supporting Duchatelet. I was happy giving Ampthill £13.50 yesterday. You could be accused (justifiably or not) of many things elfsborgfranboras but hypocrisy would not be among them.
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Post by elfsborgfranboras on Aug 25, 2019 7:35:55 GMT
I was happy giving Ampthill £13.50 yesterday. You could be accused (justifiably or not) of many things elfsborgfranboras but hypocrisy would not be among them. Thank you. A mate yesterday said "I was cutting my nose off to spite my face" by not attending. He still does not get it. Pictures to follow Sir.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 8:20:16 GMT
If you don't want to go to Charlton because it means you will give Roland some money, then don't go. If you think you are being heroic getting in on a Child's ticket thereby cheating Roland out of some money you are deluded. Buying a child's ticket instead of an adults is WRONG. Heroic my arse, it is cheap and mean and has nothing to do with Roland.
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Post by canterburyaddick on Aug 25, 2019 9:29:48 GMT
Royston - congratulations on getting another anti Roland thread through under the radar. It would seem that once again you have misjudged the sensible mindset of people on here though. It cost my mate £16 to upgrade a child's ticket on Wednesday. Let's say there were 100 "fans" who came through illegally that's £1600 lost to the club.
Ultimately I'm sure it's not RD who looks at the day to day figures, but some one is likely to add up 2+2 and decide that is 32 people that will not be employed by the club that night, who will be deprived of wages, creating longer queues at the outlets, less people in the ticket office and less stewards etc. RD will have decided what he is prepared to lose, the victim is not him, but other fans and LB's budget. Still continue with your self delusion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 9:37:40 GMT
Royston - congratulations on getting another anti Roland thread through under the radar. It would seem that once again you have misjudged the sensible mindset of people on here though. It cost my mate £16 to upgrade a child's ticket on Wednesday. Let's say there were 100 "fans" who came through illegally that's £1600 lost to the club. Ultimately I'm sure it's not RD who looks at the day to day figures, but some one is likely to add up 2+2 and decide that is 32 people that will not be employed by the club that night, who will be deprived of wages, creating longer queues at the outlets, less people in the ticket office and less stewards etc. RD will have decided what he is prepared to lose, the victim is not him, but other fans and LB's budget. Still continue with your self delusion. I admire your barefaced cheek Canterbury. Remind me again...which of us got into Charlton for FREE thanks to freebies from Duchâtelet?
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Post by observer on Aug 25, 2019 9:57:10 GMT
Agree - it’s not a protest against RD. People just trying it on.... That’s categorically wrong mate. In the same way that thousands of fans have boycotted the Valley to deprive Duchâtelet of money, many others have decided to attend, support the team they love, and still deprive the Belgian helmet of dough. They are heroes. I cannot avoid the suspicion that this is a provocative wind-up from an intelligent man whose opinions are sought and respected at high level. There are shops and pubs that I would like to use but avoid for one reason or another. It is my choice and I either get what I want from elsewhere or do without and find other things to do with my time and money. If I were to enter any of these establishments and steal from them, my excuse that I hate the owner or some other aspect of the operation and am carrying out a one-man guerilla campaign would not hold water. Theft in any form is seen as acceptable or unacceptable, according to conscience. My conscience would not allow me to steal. If others think thieving is an acceptable way to operate, good luck to them but a majority of people whose thinking is compatible with my own will despise them for it and happily see them punished.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 10:17:22 GMT
observerIf you lived in a remote village and was starving, and the only shop for 100 miles was owned by serial killer Fred West...what would you do ? 1. Pay Fred West the full price for a loaf. 2. Starve to death on a matter of principle. 3. Nick the loaf off Fred West while he’s not looking. Option 3 is justified in such circumstances, and that’s what many hundreds of decent Charlton fans are currently doing to Duchâtelet.
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Post by cafc2002 on Aug 25, 2019 10:24:16 GMT
observerIf you lived in a remote village and was starving, and the only shop for 100 miles was owned by serial killer Fred West...what would you do ? 1. Pay Fred West the full price for a loaf. 2. Starve to death on a matter of principle. 3. Nick the loaf off Fred West while he’s not looking. Option 3 is justified in such circumstances, and that’s what many hundreds of decent Charlton fans are currently doing to Duchâtelet. Absolute crap, nothing to do with getting one over Duchatelet.
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Post by oldred on Aug 25, 2019 10:27:59 GMT
Come on Royston, really?... comparing RD to a ruthless serial killer is ridiculous and over the top . Surely even you even with your hatred of the owner can see that.
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Post by squareball on Aug 25, 2019 10:30:41 GMT
I’m talking about season losses, no need to get into a debate which changes the thread title. Loss of income from chancers equals more losses for the club which equates to more borrowing from the owner with interest. So these guys are actually harming the club. Typically disrespectful. Not “chancers” ....loyal, lifelong fans who hate this fucking owner. One has to wonder why they’re supporting the owner by going to the game. Sneaking in on the cheap isn’t because they hate the owner for if they did and were of that mindset then they wouldn’t be attending home or away games. They are trying their luck for a bit of a laugh if you ask me...perhaps squeezing another pint of beer out of the money saved.
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Post by squareball on Aug 25, 2019 10:32:44 GMT
@lardiman Getting rid of the owner is a guerilla war, and depriving him of ticket revenue is a legitimate tactic many will think. Are you part of the guerilla war or do you attend games and support Douche?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 10:34:06 GMT
Once people know they can get away with it, they will keep doing it. However it has been common knowledge on social media and internet forums that people have been boasting about this for 3 years plus now.
Why have the club let this go for so long?
They are just as bad for letting it happen for this amount of time.
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Post by elfsborgfranboras on Aug 25, 2019 10:34:44 GMT
If you don't want to go to Charlton because it means you will give Roland some money, then don't go. If you think you are being heroic getting in on a Child's ticket thereby cheating Roland out of some money you are deluded. Buying a child's ticket instead of an adults is WRONG. Heroic my arse, it is cheap and mean and has nothing to do with Roland. It means giving him less dough. However, I am unable to argue it is not illegal.
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Post by observer on Aug 25, 2019 10:36:06 GMT
observer If you lived in a remote village and was starving, and the only shop for 100 miles was owned by serial killer Fred West...what would you do ? 1. Pay Fred West the full price for a loaf. 2. Starve to death on a matter of principle. 3. Nick the loaf off Fred West while he’s not looking. Option 3 is justified in such circumstances, and that’s what many hundreds of decent Charlton fans are currently doing to Duchâtelet. A rhetorical game, amusing but not relevant. Do you know of such a village? If so, how and from where does the remote shop get its supplies? What does it do with its unsold stock, on the assumption that all residents are similarly impoverished and cannot afford his wares? Do the villagers hate the shopkeeper? And, for what it might be worth, I have some experience of seeing real poverty in remote areas of The Philippines and thievery is rare. Applying your game to CAFC which, of course is your intention, I'll bite. I am not sure that the fans doing the thieving are impoverished, that they need football to survive, or that there is no alternative entertainment within 100 miles. But perhaps I am missing something?
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Post by elfsborgfranboras on Aug 25, 2019 10:36:08 GMT
Royston - congratulations on getting another anti Roland thread through under the radar. It would seem that once again you have misjudged the sensible mindset of people on here though. It cost my mate £16 to upgrade a child's ticket on Wednesday. Let's say there were 100 "fans" who came through illegally that's £1600 lost to the club. Ultimately I'm sure it's not RD who looks at the day to day figures, but some one is likely to add up 2+2 and decide that is 32 people that will not be employed by the club that night, who will be deprived of wages, creating longer queues at the outlets, less people in the ticket office and less stewards etc. RD will have decided what he is prepared to lose, the victim is not him, but other fans and LB's budget. Still continue with your self delusion. A wildly dramatic second paragraph.
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Post by squareball on Aug 25, 2019 10:36:13 GMT
observerIf you lived in a remote village and was starving, and the only shop for 100 miles was owned by serial killer Fred West...what would you do ? 1. Pay Fred West the full price for a loaf. 2. Starve to death on a matter of principle. 3. Nick the loaf off Fred West while he’s not looking. Option 3 is justified in such circumstances, and that’s what many hundreds of decent Charlton fans are currently doing to Duchâtelet. Which one are you doing? Perhaps you can join The RE dream team and become a “do what l say not what l do “ kinda guy.
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Post by oldred on Aug 25, 2019 10:41:31 GMT
@lardiman Getting rid of the owner is a guerilla war, and depriving him of ticket revenue is a legitimate tactic many will think. Royston , I truly believe this when I say this.... Not ONE person yesterday who fraudulently obtained entrance to the Valley on a kids ticket , got through that gate , up the stairs , onto the concourse , and said to themselves inside “Fuck you Roland , I’ve done you out of a tenner...!!(or whatever it’s is...) “ Some people like the buzz of avoiding train fares , jibbing into racecourses for free , pinching a newspaper from the stand outside petrol garages and getting into football grounds for free or the price of a child , it’s just the way some people are wired.. All of the above are wrong and shouldn’t be celebrated , and the word Roland/RD/Douchebag etc etc shouldn’t be mentioned on this thread anywhere as it’s absolutely nothing to do with him , unless that is , you love talking about him/have a secret crush on him.... Yes, I have to agree with this also. I don’t believe people do this to deprive the owner, but for their own benefit. Lets be sensible about this, if they wanted to do the owner out of money, why are they even going at all , they are still giving him money, just a reduced amount.
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Post by squareball on Aug 25, 2019 10:45:26 GMT
@lardiman Getting rid of the owner is a guerilla war, and depriving him of ticket revenue is a legitimate tactic many will think. I do respect your point of view Royston. And I appreciate my most recent post can be interpreted as devaluing or belittling the efforts of protesting Charlton fans, and possibly trivialising the real anger they felt and maybe still feel about the way RD ran/runs CAFC. At the time I posted my many anti-RD messages I believed in what I was saying. I'm not saying now that all of my arguments were wrong or ill-conceived, though I admit I have made mistakes and over-reacted many times. All I was trying to say is that I should not have expressed those views if I was not willing to make my actions match my words. On furums I have opposed RD many times. In reality I have paid him something like £2,500 since 2014 (season tickets & programme purchases mostly, though I did give up buying programmes a few years ago). Lardiman you can take solace in the fact that your contribution has almost certainly helped to pay the wages of a back room staff member who will very much appreciate your support. Douche will not have “trousered “ any of it.
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