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Post by reamsofverse on Dec 9, 2018 20:22:54 GMT
Problem is, we all know that Wimbledon and Gillingham especially, always seem to do us in our own back yard.
With games at Portsmouth, Coventry and Barnsley which I think we'll take nothing from the next two games are crucial. Nothing less than six points will do, fall short of that and we'll be bottom half going into the new year.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 21:02:32 GMT
It would be like Charlton to pull off an enexpected away win at Portsmouth, then crash to home defeats against AFC Wimbledon and (particularly) Gillingham. They went to Fratton Park and won 0-2 earlier this season.
I'm not sure however that even such a disappointing outcome - 3 points from 3 games before Christmas and two disheartening home defeats - would define the rest of our season.
In my view if there is no take-over before January we are on a hiding to nothing anyway. But putting that aside, I think a late rally in March & April could still see 6th place as a possibility with a handful of matches left to play.
What happens (or does not happen) between New Year's Day and the closing of the January transfer window really will define the rest of our season - and the seasons to come.
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Post by reamsofverse on Dec 9, 2018 21:16:59 GMT
Lardiman, I read so many people on here being satisfied with a sixth place finish which I just don't get at all.
We are not going to finish anywhere near the top two and we are inferior by some way to the two sides who will come 3rd and 4th.
We are one of about 8 clubs who could finish 5th and 6th but none of them will trouble the top four in the play-offs in what ever order they finish.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 22:23:06 GMT
I agree.
6th place after a late run will not lead to promotion.
Whoever finishes third this season is likely to be far too strong for us over two semi-final legs.
But as you say, 6th place does appear to be enough to satisfy a number of the members here.
Unless there is a take-over and substantial investment in the January window, Charlton will not challenge for an automatic promotion spot this season and we are highly unlikely to be able to finish 4th or 3rd - so securing a second leg play-off semi-final at home.
Even if we have new owners in a few weeks time, will they stick with Lee Bowyer and give him the resources? Or (more likely in my view) allow an incoming manager - their own man - to decide what players he wants.
Whatever happens, our chances of promotion this season are looking pretty slim. A 5th or 6th place finish will almost certainly see us knocked out before we get to Wembley.
All I was saying really is that I would not entirely discount the possibility that Charlton could be mid-table in February and still be capable of putting together a run that sees us snatch 6th place at the end of the season.
It won't ultimately lead to a return to the Championship this summer, but it will at least be more interesting than ending the season in obscurity with a string of dead rubber games attracting fewer and fewer fans.
Even a couple of play-off semis ending in defeat would be a little better than that.
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Post by seriouslyred on Dec 10, 2018 2:37:07 GMT
I agree. 6th place after a late run will not lead to promotion. Whoever finishes third this season is likely to be far too strong for us over two semi-final legs. But as you say, 6th place does appear to be enough to satisfy a number of the members here. Unless there is a take-over and substantial investment in the January window, Charlton will not challenge for an automatic promotion spot this season and we are highly unlikely to be able to finish 4th or 3rd - so securing a second leg play-off semi-final at home. Even if we have new owners in a few weeks time, will they stick with Lee Bowyer and give him the resources? Or (more likely in my view) allow an incoming manager - their own man - to decide what players he wants. Whatever happens, our chances of promotion this season are looking pretty slim. A 5th or 6th place finish will almost certainly see us knocked out before we get to Wembley. All I was saying really is that I would not entirely discount the possibility that Charlton could be mid-table in February and still be capable of putting together a run that sees us snatch 6th place at the end of the season. It won't ultimately lead to a return to the Championship this summer, but it will at least be more interesting than ending the season in obscurity with a string of dead rubber games attracting fewer and fewer fans. Even a couple of play-off semis ending in defeat would be a little better than that. Sixth place and a late run is what we all experienced last season. It wasn't too bad compared to mid-table the season before but we all know that in the end, we couldn't land a single blow in the Play Off semi finals - home or away. And we aren't challenging for the top two - nowhere near as that would require 47 points after 23 games or roughly two points per game. We are going to be around ten points short of that. What we might look at is the likelihood of being 6th at the halfway mark which requires approximately four more points. And then what will it take to develop the side into one which can win the Play-off semi finals and take us to Wembley. Not guaranteed promotion by a long chalk but one step further than last time and a competitive side. On the upside, we have the strikers, the keeper (assuming he stays) and the defence once Page is back. Obviously we need cover at left-back as the various options of Solly wrong side, Sarr and Stevenson are showing weakness every game. Talking of injuries, we've lost Cullen until February but he's some player and could easily become part of a side that wins more often than not. For that is what we have to do - win at least half our games. Where we have a real challenge is with the rest of midfield. Ward is injured, Fosu off form, Reeves a decent sub etc. etc. We all like Lapslie but he's young and we need decent, more experienced players around him. That. Costs. Hard. Cash. |
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Post by bexleyboy on Dec 10, 2018 7:44:15 GMT
The next two games will not determine our season ...there still a long way to go and plenty of games to put a run together and finish top 6 ..
Top 6 is our aim like every other team in this league and yes we would look at 6th spot as a successful season because at the end of it all 6th gets the same reward as 3/4/5 a place in the play offs .
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Post by seriouslyred on Dec 10, 2018 8:38:21 GMT
The next two games will not determine our season ...there still a long way to go and plenty of games to put a run together and finish top 6 .. Top 6 is our aim like every other team in this league and yes we would look at 6th spot as a successful season because at the end of it all 6th gets the same reward as 3/4/5 a place in the play offs . Whilst I agree there's a long way to go before the season is "defined" we should be clear that there are almost always four clubs chasing automatic promotion and we are not one of those. 6th was great for Millwall a couple of years back because they had a solid older team with nine or ten players making 40 odd appearances each. Can't remember the play-off final but they deserved the win by all accounts. On the other hand, we have around six players who are on the team sheet every week - that has to be one of the reasons we are not consistent. So yes, 6th place qualifies for the play-offs but we need a competitive team to win the semi-final... And we really won't know until March if that's happening or not. |
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Post by bexleyboy on Dec 10, 2018 13:23:38 GMT
Few weeks ago certain individuals had us condemned to a relegation fight because we slipped to 11th but 4 wins and we were 6th ... so just saying
But you need luck to finish top two , you need luck with injuries and a settled side which Pompey have had if they lose their two star players watch them fall down the table , and of course you need decsions to up your way and sorry to say we only had seriously bad luck on both
That’s why 6th spot would be an excellent season , if we had our key players available all season we are more then capable of top two .
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Post by reamsofverse on Dec 10, 2018 13:53:33 GMT
Few weeks ago certain individuals had us condemned to a relegation fight because we slipped to 11th but 4 wins and we were 6th ... so just saying But you need luck to finish top two , you need luck with injuries and a settled side which Pompey have had if they lose their two star players watch them fall down the table , and of course you need decsions to up your way and sorry to say we only had seriously bad luck on both That’s why 6th spot would be an excellent season , if we had our key players available all season we are more then capable of top two . You make your own luck. |
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Post by MurciaAl on Dec 10, 2018 13:55:07 GMT
Important month for us I think, we need to stay in touch either in the top six or a point or two off of it. With the January window looming, we may just be able to strengthen again to give us a chance in the second half of the season, (I live in hope!).
An excellent season for me would to be automatically promoted, a great season to go up via the play offs, anything else would be a failure. LB said we're going up!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 14:13:25 GMT
God help us if we do go up with no takeover.
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Major
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Post by Major on Dec 10, 2018 17:01:27 GMT
God help us if we do go up with no takeover. Why? What will happen, in your opinion? Genuine question because I want to get up and out of this division under any circumstance but if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate knowing why. |
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Post by lukepiestalker on Dec 10, 2018 17:48:46 GMT
Few weeks ago certain individuals had us condemned to a relegation fight because we slipped to 11th but 4 wins and we were 6th ... so just saying But you need luck to finish top two , you need luck with injuries and a settled side which Pompey have had if they lose their two star players watch them fall down the table , and of course you need decsions to up your way and sorry to say we only had seriously bad luck on both That’s why 6th spot would be an excellent season , if we had our key players available all season we are more then capable of top two . You need a plan, targeted recruitment and an owner that wants success to get auto spots. It's not luck. I do think that the old adage the harder I work the luckier I get is true in football and life. We were a mess in the summer so to be floating around the playoff area is miraculous. If we lose the next two can we still reach the playoffs - it won't be impossible. |
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Post by essexaddick on Dec 10, 2018 17:49:19 GMT
The next two games will not determine our season ...there still a long way to go and plenty of games to put a run together and finish top 6 .. Top 6 is our aim like every other team in this league and yes we would look at 6th spot as a successful season because at the end of it all 6th gets the same reward as 3/4/5 a place in the play offs . We havn't got a good enough side to win the play-offs even if we make sixth place which is doubtful. And the transfer window will be another damp squib like every other January transfer window. We made sixth last season and couldn't land any sort of a punch on Shrewsbury in either leg. And the same will happen again. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 17:50:23 GMT
God help us if we do go up with no takeover. Why? What will happen, in your opinion? Genuine question because I want to get up and out of this division under any circumstance but if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate knowing why. Do you really think Duchatalet would spend the amount needed to keep us there when he won't even spend the amount needed to get us out of this one? I could see a season of us getting turned over week after week and a drop straight back down again. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Dec 10, 2018 17:57:50 GMT
Why? What will happen, in your opinion? Genuine question because I want to get up and out of this division under any circumstance but if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate knowing why. Do you really think Duchatalet would spend the amount needed to keep us there when he won't even spend the amount needed to get us out of this one? I could see a season of us getting turned over week after week and a drop straight back down again. We will not go anywhere without a takeover. |
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Post by seriouslyred on Dec 10, 2018 18:14:40 GMT
Few weeks ago certain individuals had us condemned to a relegation fight because we slipped to 11th but 4 wins and we were 6th ... so just saying But you need luck to finish top two , you need luck with injuries and a settled side which Pompey have had if they lose their two star players watch them fall down the table , and of course you need decsions to up your way and sorry to say we only had seriously bad luck on both That’s why 6th spot would be an excellent season , if we had our key players available all season we are more then capable of top two . You make your own luck. We are in violent agreement! With 46 games, two windows and the ability to loan players from higher divisions, the owner and management can indeed make their own luck. However much of a single game is determined by randomness, it's extremely clear that the wage budget, quality of management and stability determine a huge part of success. That's why people love Lennie and Curbs for we were over performing and the pair of them took us from Charlton Athletic 1984 to the top four in the FAPL that Christmas when we beat Chelski. The challenge is to recruit and then coach a competitive squad. We were unlucky to have Bauer, Bielik and others out at the same time, and to lose both Vetokele and Cullen to dislocated shoulders in the same game. But many other situations have been down to not having a settled midfield or not being able to utilise our strength at centre back with a three. Just add Dasilva and one or two others and on paper we look very good. We talk about moving at pace but there's also decision making in attacking situations - some players have that, others not so much. Bowyer is the classic "player manager". Obviously he doesn't play, but he's trying to coach and manage the way he learnt to play. He doesn't have the depth of experience to "make his own luck" every game. The fact he hit the ground running kinda suggests things were a tad f**ked up when he took over. For me, the answer is to give Bow's the budget and bring in an older head to advise. Said it before but RDs money would deliver so much more with a decent DoF on board. |
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Post by willett on Dec 10, 2018 18:41:34 GMT
Few weeks ago certain individuals had us condemned to a relegation fight because we slipped to 11th but 4 wins and we were 6th ... so just saying But you need luck to finish top two , you need luck with injuries and a settled side which Pompey have had if they lose their two star players watch them fall down the table , and of course you need decsions to up your way and sorry to say we only had seriously bad luck on both That’s why 6th spot would be an excellent season , if we had our key players available all season we are more then capable of top two . Decisions? Like we would have been top last year? Only a fool keeps blaming things on that. |
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Major
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Post by Major on Dec 10, 2018 19:10:35 GMT
Why? What will happen, in your opinion? Genuine question because I want to get up and out of this division under any circumstance but if I'm wrong, I'd appreciate knowing why. Do you really think Duchatalet would spend the amount needed to keep us there when he won't even spend the amount needed to get us out of this one? I could see a season of us getting turned over week after week and a drop straight back down again. What I really think is irrelevant. I have no idea what will happen and nor do you. Some people seem to believe if they have an opinion, it is fact. I doubt you have the gift of seeing into the future. Personally, I'd prefer to get promotion and then see what happens.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 19:29:06 GMT
Do you really think Duchatalet would spend the amount needed to keep us there when he won't even spend the amount needed to get us out of this one? I could see a season of us getting turned over week after week and a drop straight back down again. What I really think is irrelevant. I have no idea what will happen and nor do you. Some people seem to believe if they have an opinion, it is fact. I doubt you have the gift of seeing into the future. Personally, I'd prefer to get promotion and then see what happens. We cannot see into the future, but we remember the past and we learn from it. Past experience suggests that under Duchatelet Charlton will not have sufficient resources or sufficient stability to remain in the Championship. Season 2015-16 was painfully humiliating. Some of us don't want to go through that again under this owner, and we don't trust him to have changed his ways. Cost cutting is RD's mantra at CAFC now. And the Club will lose even more money in the Championship than it is doing down here in League One. We stand a much better chance of consolidating in the second tier with a new owner who is willing to invest in the hope of future success rather than an owner with a long track record of mismanagement and indifference. |
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Post by Major on Dec 10, 2018 19:54:20 GMT
What I really think is irrelevant. I have no idea what will happen and nor do you. Some people seem to believe if they have an opinion, it is fact. I doubt you have the gift of seeing into the future. Personally, I'd prefer to get promotion and then see what happens. We cannot see into the future, but we remember the past and we learn from it. Past experience suggests that under Duchatelet Charlton will not have sufficient resources or sufficient stability to remain in the Championship. Season 2015-16 was painfully humiliating. Some of us don't want to go through that again under this owner, and we don't trust him to have changed his ways. Cost cutting is RD's mantra at CAFC now. And the Club will lose even more money in the Championship than it is doing down here in League One. We stand a much better chance of consolidating in the second tier with a new owner who is willing to invest in the hope of future success rather than an owner with a long track record of mismanagement and indifference. Lardiman, I really don't need one of your sanctimonious lectures and your final sentence is pretty bloody obvious, if you don't mind me saying. The other fellow said 'God help us' if we get promoted. I want to get promoted. I'm not frightened of it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2018 19:57:29 GMT
Lardiman, I really don't need one of your sanctimonious lectures and your final sentence is pretty bloody obvious, if you don't mind me saying. The other fellow said 'God help us' if we get promoted. I want to get promoted. I'm not frightened of it. If you get promoted do we have to call you Lieutenant Colonel? |
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Post by Major on Dec 10, 2018 20:04:43 GMT
Lardiman, I really don't need one of your sanctimonious lectures and your final sentence is pretty bloody obvious, if you don't mind me saying. The other fellow said 'God help us' if we get promoted. I want to get promoted. I'm not frightened of it. If you get promoted do we have to call you Lieutenant Colonel? Just 'Sir' will suffice. Like now.  |
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Post by Major on Dec 10, 2018 20:10:53 GMT
The next two games will not determine our season ...there still a long way to go and plenty of games to put a run together and finish top 6 .. Top 6 is our aim like every other team in this league and yes we would look at 6th spot as a successful season because at the end of it all 6th gets the same reward as 3/4/5 a place in the play offs . We havn't got a good enough side to win the play-offs even if we make sixth place which is doubtful. And the transfer window will be another damp squib like every other January transfer window. We made sixth last season and couldn't land any sort of a punch on Shrewsbury in either leg. And the same will happen again. With the players Bow brought in and other key players all fit, I think we do have a good enough side to win the play-offs. Obviously any January activity, in or out will have a bearing on that. |
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Post by Major on Dec 10, 2018 20:19:32 GMT
Few weeks ago certain individuals had us condemned to a relegation fight because we slipped to 11th but 4 wins and we were 6th ... so just saying But you need luck to finish top two , you need luck with injuries and a settled side which Pompey have had if they lose their two star players watch them fall down the table , and of course you need decsions to up your way and sorry to say we only had seriously bad luck on both That’s why 6th spot would be an excellent season , if we had our key players available all season we are more then capable of top two . Decisions? Like we would have been top last year? Only a fool keeps blaming things on that. Pointing out possible factors that potentially cost points in a game is not blaming nor foolish. The game we just lost is a good example of that. I know it is a lot of shoulda, coulda, woulda, but like it or not, it can have a bearing on the points total at the end of the season. It is not, however, an excuse for poor performance. |
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Post by bowmanstash on Dec 12, 2018 6:34:27 GMT
Two games until Christmas and the halfway point in the league. Anything over 40 points and we will be in a position to have a crack.
Problem is the outcome will be resolved by what happens off the pitch.
Takeover needs to happen before window and the first thing we need to do is keep our biggest assets. Would also like to see a couple offloaded and replaced by players able to contribute plus the obvious left back cover. COYR
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 21:34:01 GMT
Problem is, we all know that Wimbledon and Gillingham especially, always seem to do us in our own back yard. With games at Portsmouth, Coventry and Barnsley which I think we'll take nothing from the next two games are crucial. Nothing less than six points will do, fall short of that and we'll be bottom half going into the new year. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 the number 1 CHARLTON FAN |
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