Deep breath everybody, count to 10

[reamsofverse]

Wasn't great tonight but as I said this afternoon on the match thread we needed to restrict the space Powell and Jacobs can hurt us in and we didn't.

Shades of Plymouth tonight, we went behind and had no plan B and while we have KAG and Dodoo coming on there's never going to be one either.

Pleased we never paid the £2m for Grigg he sounded quiet but money clearly needs to be spent on this squad in January not just up front but in defence too because we have the second worst defence in the top half of the table.

We have a couple of games now to put tonight right so let's stay positive and go to Gillingham and give them the hiding we received tonight.

[revilo]

I agree with Reams. Let's write tonight off and smash Gillingham on Saturday

[ExeterAddick]

Absolutely right. Wigan were a very tidy outfit - better than every side I've seen at the Valley this season and almost every side we played last year.

We were poor, but every side is entitled to the odd bad week and I think we'll see a better display on Saturday.

[oldred]

Wigan were the better team from the start tonight , and could have scored 2 goals in the first 10 mins with better finishing .
Unfortunate that we faced probably the best team we have played , on a night where we were far from at our best , with lots of sloppy passes going straight to a Wigan player.

Best to draw a line under that one and make sure we get a result at Gillingham on Saturday ., I thought the crowd and atmosphere was good tonight right up until the third goal went in .
Apart from a couple of half chances , we didn't look like scoring tonight . Lots of play acting on their part was frustrating to watch .

I just hope Josh doesn't get injured of suspended , because we certainly don't look as though we have good back up options with Dodoo and KAG .

[reamsofverse]

The Dodoo signing instead of a renowned goalscorer was a desperately poor decision on every level, let's not hide that fact.

[addikted]

I think the biggest thing tonight showed me was that we could do with Josh Wright. Kashi isn't ready for 3 games in a week and Aribo/konsa aren't ready for games like tonight. Why not sign him on a free telling him he's back up. Pretty sure he'd still sign and if not fair play

[MurciaAl]

Sept 12, 2017 22:04:55 GMT reamsofverse said:

The Dodoo signing instead of a renowned goalscorer was a desperately poor decision on every level, let's not hide that fact.

I know I have only seen him in two cameo roles, but he really looks poor to me mate.

[seriouslyred]

First up, the crowd was over 10,000 which is a 1,000 up on a Tuesday night fixture this time last season. Overall the home gates are up by over 750 on average and the number of home fans is up by over 500. If that keeps going then we have definitely turned a corner.

Secondly that was only our second defeat in 12 with nine wins, albeit mostly against weaker sides - except for Southend (twice) and Wigan. Of course we could always do with better players and a stronger bench but KR and the club have delivered two decent windows so there is no reason to believe that they can't add to the squad again in January.

For sure there's quite a few games between now and then so this team has to improve and work for success. And our fans have to back them. We can't just expect millions to be spent to improve the side.

And third, the upside is that we only have to play Wigan once more all season! There are only a couple of other clubs anywhere near their level. Southend, Scunthorpe and Portsmouth are our typical rivals. Let's face it, we have climbed into the top six and most of us will be delighted to stay there all season. I'm not saying we can't strive for 90 points and the top two but that's a big ask given where we have just come from.

I think we just have to wait and see if the squad is good enough and consistent enough to keep us on two points a game. If we are there or there abouts in January then the club have to attract the right players to keep us on track. That's the right players to improve the options on the bench plus push one or two of the first XI.

Roll on Saturday 3pm where we return to playing a bottom half side. Three points there will do a lot to help this time around, plus put last November's game firmly in the past.

[Deleted]

Dodoo was shite again. Neither him and KAG are good enough striker, Fairchild not ready. The squad is lacking in alternative attacking options, but obviously Marshall and Reeves will help that cause.

I know we have conceded a few but I don't think we can improve on the back 4. We also have Konsa on the bench, and then the likes of Dijksteel, Sarr and Page completing the back up.

It's not just the players, we do need a plan B which is something we will lack under Robinson. Just got to hope that Plan A works enough for us to finish top 6. Squad could be improved but I would happily accept a top 2nd striker in January. Dodoo is a third option but not the second.

[Deleted]

There's nothing wrong with a well timed reality check. We have had ours so let's see how we learn from it and push on. Heaping abuse on individual players is not remotely helpful.

[Mundell]

The last thing I want to do is to rain on the parade, but for me the real concern about last night's performance (not the result) is that it appeared to confirm or validate the analysis of our 'expected goals' over the first six matches. That analysis had suggested that we had won more points than our performances had merited.

I posted this comment on the Lies, lies damn lies and statistics thread after Saturday's win against Southend, along with all the usual caveats about this kind of data. I've removed the links.

'........ based on this analysis our game against Southend was another very close match which might have gone either way. This has been a familiar pattern in each of our six games to date.

That conclusion is confirmed by this scatter plot. The chart tells us that we are currently ranked 11th on 'expected goal difference' with attack being our relative strength (8th) and defence a relative weakness (14th). This is, potentially, a cause for concern and, at a minimum, suggests that there is no room for complacency.

We may well need to improve if we are retain a top six position, i.e. it may not be enough to simply keep playing as we are, somewhat counterintuitive though that may seem. My own view, for what that's worth, is that we are probably capable of improving upfront though that may require some better decision making by the front four, perhaps from Holmes and Fosu in particular, but that the defence is more of a concern.

Lies, lies and all that, but we haven't had a single game where our expected goals against has been as low as the season averages for Doncaster, Fleetwood and Wigan. There appear to be several sides in League One this season that are currently much harder to create good chances against than we are. Tuesday night against Wigan will be very interesting.'

In truth, I really didn't want to believe the analysis and so played it down. However, unfortunately, the data suggested that we were 'fairly average' in our first six matches, but that we had nevertheless managed to win three points in a number of games which really could have gone either way. That's rarely sustainable. Looked at through this lens, last night's result was a comfortable win for the best side in the league (so far, and based on their expected goals) playing against a side in mid table which has a below average defence.

I'm not sure why our opponents seem to able to create lots of 'good chances' against us, not least since we have two decent centre backs. At first, I thought it may simply be a problem of height and lack of physicality, but I now suspect there may also be something else going on. Both Southend and Wigan played through us remarkably easily and that's simply not 'normal'. If I were Karl Robinson I'd be focused on understanding and then trying to fix that problem because if we don't we're going to concede too many goals, especially against the better sides in the league, to make the playoffs.

One possibility may be that the midfield is too narrow, allowing the opposition to find too much space in wide positions, or perhaps there is too much space between the pivots and the midfield three, allowing players to get in between our lines and open us up. This certainly appeared to be the case on Saturday against Southend and then again last night. Wigan's midfield five completely overwhelmed ours, enjoying lots of space to play while not giving us any. They may have better players, but tactical adjustments would probably have helped.

Unfortunately, I've no idea what those adjustments might be. Perhaps someone better informed than I can comment.

[garrynelson]

Obviously disappointed in the result and that it was against a probable promotion contender. Never like being on the wrong side of a 3 goal defeat, but the real test of our character is going to be how we respond away to Gillingham - I hope we show the character necessary for a genuine promotion push

[reamsofverse]

Up until the 10 game mark the season is like the start of a marathon where every body is jostling for position.

I think we'll be top eight throughout, to solidify a top two place you need a bit more quality up front than we showed last night.

Top eight until January then buy what's needed to go the extra mile at that point.

[ashaddick]

I wasn't there tonight and so won't comment directly, but I have feared that this would happen against good opposition. As has been stated by others we seem to have no plan B and offer one dimensional football. Any coach/ team with real quality will find weaknesses and exploit them, as have we with poorer teams, the trick is being able to change in play to reduce those weaknesses. And that I fear is where we fall down.

[roburwash]

I don't really understand all this Plan A and Plan B stuff - simple chap me. But my Plan B would be to make our players grow three or four inches and put on a lot more muscle.

[bexleyboy]

Sept 13, 2017 0:42:35 GMT @ralphie74 said:

Dodoo was shite again. Neither him and KAG are good enough striker, Fairchild not ready. The squad is lacking in alternative attacking options, but obviously Marshall and Reeves will help that cause.

I know we have conceded a few but I don't think we can improve on the back 4. We also have Konsa on the bench, and then the likes of Dijksteel, Sarr and Page completing the back up.

It's not just the players, we do need a plan B which is something we will lack under Robinson. Just got to hope that Plan A works enough for us to finish top 6. Squad could be improved but I would happily accept a top 2nd striker in January. Dodoo is a third option but not the second.

Again ? give him s chance coming on when your side are behind and finding tough is not easy

[somerton]

A deep breath needde indeeed. That Wigan team has a lot of quality and will be in the top 2 most probably. So are performance must be read with that in mind, the positive is we did create chances and missed a golden opportunity to go ahead first, the negative as I have worried about since start of the season is defending and in particular a lack of pace in the team with one or two exceptions. This meant that they closed are players down nearly all the time, and our players started to fear having the ball at their feet. which probaly accounts for Kashi and his appalling passing last night. The other major weakness is the bench no experienced players on it who could change the game, games like last night`s one,is not when you want to bring on young inexperienced players. It will ruin their confidence.

[addicknz]

What surprised me last night was a number of ‘supporters’ from about 20 minutes in started to barrack the team and Robinson. It is almost as though they have been waiting for us to falter and take pleasure in moaning at the side. There were a few sly digs at Robinson and openly critical of players throughout the 1st half.

This is the reason why I want nothing to do with the protests, CARD etc. Thankfully at half time the team was met with an encouraging roar as they went into the tunnel and the petty little boys in black and white were suitably silenced.

Seriously – just stay away, this negativity is not welcome.

[Deleted]

We won't face many better teams this season than Wigan so we have to put that performance into perspective.

I said earlier in the season that I thought the squad was a bit light and last nights bench enforced my view, especially as Marshall is 4 weeks away from starting to train, let alone play and Reeves at least 3 weeks away from match fitness.

As reams states, lets take a deep breath and not get carried away, if the team can stay fit I believe they will finish in the top 6.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2017 8:58:04 GMT bexleyboy said:

Sept 13, 2017 0:42:35 GMT @ralphie74 said:

Dodoo was shite again. Neither him and KAG are good enough striker, Fairchild not ready. The squad is lacking in alternative attacking options, but obviously Marshall and Reeves will help that cause.

I know we have conceded a few but I don't think we can improve on the back 4. We also have Konsa on the bench, and then the likes of Dijksteel, Sarr and Page completing the back up.

It's not just the players, we do need a plan B which is something we will lack under Robinson. Just got to hope that Plan A works enough for us to finish top 6. Squad could be improved but I would happily accept a top 2nd striker in January. Dodoo is a third option but not the second.

Again ? give him s chance coming on when your side are behind and finding tough is not easy

I'm struggling to understand what the end of that sentence says but yes I haven't written Dodoo off yet. He scored a debut goal (but he does this everytime, I think it's his party trick) but I have seen him twice and he has been poor both times. Coming on behind was not something he had to encounter Saturday was still poor. 

I will stick with the fact that a striker is the priority, whether Dodoo improves on his recent performances or not. 

[coloradocafc]

The club you support is rarely as good as you hope they can be nor as bad as you worry they might be. It's a bad result and a bad performance. There will likely be more. Just as there will be good results, and lucky ones, and unlucky ones. There's a lot of points still to be had in September, and, given how the club has performed overall, I'm optimistic they can go out and earn them.

[bexleyboy]

Sept 13, 2017 9:48:41 GMT addicknz said:

What surprised me last night was a number of ‘supporters’ from about 20 minutes in started to barrack the team and Robinson. It is almost as though they have been waiting for us to falter and take pleasure in moaning at the side. There were a few sly digs at Robinson and openly critical of players throughout the 1st half.

This is the reason why I want nothing to do with the protests, CARD etc. Thankfully at half time the team was met with an encouraging roar as they went into the tunnel and the petty little boys in black and white were suitably

Seriously – just stay away, this negativity is not welcome.

Idiots and not wanted at the valley there going to be ups and downs in any season don't forget we still got Marshall and Reeves to come in

It's sad there are a few on here as well last few games Bauer and Pearce the best partnership we had etc etc one defeat the defence is shit need a new centre half new mid and a new striker .....

It's a defeat there will be more.. don't go or don't post on forums if you don't understand that

[essexaddick]

I personally don't think the defence is shite but it is a concern how easy they scored their goals and how easy they snuffed out any threat that we posed. Other teams will take note which is why we need to be able to change things around when things aren't going right.

This is what we appear unable to do. There is just no plan B. This is probably due to the lack of depth in the squad and most certainly a lack of another decent striker which I believe will come back to haunt us. I feel goals will become harder to come as the season progresses and therefore we can't afford a defence that leaks goals like last night.

Read more: intothevalley.proboards.com/thread/21620/deep-breath-everybody-count-10?page=1#ixzz4sZVJXX36

[essexaddick]

Sorry, my reply seems to have added itself on to Bexley's. Don't know how that happened.

[reamsofverse]

Hopefully last night's deflation is easing a bit for everyone, it was just one of those night's, all good side's have them, Wigan did at Shrewsbury last weekend and many a team this season will come a cropper when the confidence and expectations are high from the fans, just look at Cardiff at Preston last night, that's football, it happens, onto Gillingham then Bury, maximum points from both will give us 21 points a possible 27, what's not to like about that?

[essexaddick]

Hopefully yes. However, some on here are talking like wins against Gillingham and Bury are a certainty and they are not. Gillingham is not a stone cast certainty although I would expect to win against Bury. And yes, Wigan did come a cropper at Shrewsbury, but then they were playing the top of the League away. We were the ones that were second at the time last night and we lost 3-0 at home. Shrewsbury did at home what we couldn't.

Lets hope it is just a blip.

[Deleted]

Every team that comes to the Valley will raise there game it's what they do.We are strange as it sounds a big club well in this league anyway.

[ExeterAddick]

Sept 13, 2017 18:48:35 GMT reamsofverse said:

Hopefully last night's deflation is easing a bit for everyone, it was just one of those night's, all good side's have them, Wigan did at Shrewsbury last weekend and many a team this season will come a cropper when the confidence and expectations are high from the fans, just look at Cardiff at Preston last night, that's football, it happens, onto Gillingham then Bury, maximum points from both will give us 21 points a possible 27, what's not to like about that?

Do I remember a game during our League One promotion season when we were 4-0 down at half time - possibly against Notts County?

The key that season was that we almost always followed up a bad performance with a good one. Hopefully that'll be true this weekend.

[reamsofverse]

Spot on mate.

[Heisenberg]

We'll bounce back against Gillingham this weekend , of that I have no doubt. Panic over