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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 16:21:48 GMT
"A good start nothing more nothing less"?
I don't know why you have to be so begrudging. Ten games undefeated is our most impressive start ever in the Championship.
In the promotion year of 1997-8 we had lost three times by this stage and in the promotion campaign of 1999-2000 we lost two of our first ten games. Haven't looked back fully to the pre-premiership days of div two, but Lawrence lost two of the first ten in the promotion season of 1985/86.
So in remaining undefeated after ten games, Peeters has made a more promising start than any of our last three promotion campaigns from this division.
We stil have it all do over the remaining three-quarters of the seaason. But your mealy-mouthed reluctance to give Peeters due credit for what he has so far achieved comes across as carping and mean-spirited.
I hated every minute of being in div three and when we got out of it the feeling was one of relief rather than elation. l think I'll just l leave to bask happily in the memory of the "glory" of coming 45th out of 92 when we topped that awful, useless third tier. If that was such a highlight of your football watching career, I feel sorry for you!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 16:30:27 GMT
Excellent start to the season and well done to all involved at the club but im just a little nervous regarding the tactics so far, admittedly we are trying to play football instead off hoofball but I'm worried about the possession conceded in most of our games. My gut feeling at the moment is that Bob knows what he is doing but is roughly 3 players short of where he really wants us to be on the playing side of tactics andormations. Thank god at the moment we have two centre halfs who for me are premiership quality and a special mention to TBH who is a proper ball playing CB. I have been called odd on another forum for suggesting the Huddersfield Town love in a bit weird and belive me I wish CP all the best BUT do these people give or gave a proper SIR knowed as Mr Curbishley the same affection and pedestal? IMO no they don't which makes me wonder why they give Powell such a fervent vocal backing? ;-/ which to me is odd but I have my own personal views why. Back on topic though I think its an unbelievable start but would take 8th to 10th for a finish come may with the squad Bob has at his disposal. I think 24000 fans raising cards saying 'Thanks Curbs' at that Blackburn game is quite an acknowledgement. Why do people get hung up on the 'Sir Chris ' thing? It's not as if it's bestowed by the queen. People recognise what Curbs did for our club, and voted him our greatest ever manager a few years ago. But I suspect the difference in overt affection between Curbs and Powell is the 'true Charlton' thing: Curbs was West Ham, Powell is Charlton through and through. I also think Powell succeeded in bringing back Charlton values to the club at a time when many of us felt the Charlton we knew and loved had gone forever. In short, we got our Charlton back. It's worth recognising that those values were essentially those Curbs (and to a point Lennie before him) instilled at the club, but it doesn't remove the significance of what Powell did during that League One season. He was let down by TJ et al after that in my view, but it's history now. I wish him well at Huddersfield. Personally I think he'll prove a lot of us wrong over here, although I'm sure it will be excused away just as people who don't like him try to do that with the League One win. Time will tell - but don't you think the Powell 'love-in' posts are likely to increase all the time people like Colin are selecting individual negative posts from Down at the Mac after his first game? Those who feel Colin is out of order will rush to gather the positives after they win - and they won well this week after all. I wish we'd all just move on, wish Powell well and leave it there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 16:40:24 GMT
After finishing seventh in the Premiership only a few seasons earlier, being in div three was one of the most shameful episodes in Charlton history. To celebrate promotion from that division in what was in effect 45th place, was a hollow triumph. And to hail the manager who achieved this modest step back to the second tier as an all-time great strains all credulity. Well done, Dickie Murray. How many other owners have presided over a decline from 7th to 45th place, and proclaimed it as a "triumph" to rank among the club's greatest achievements? Well, except Murray didn't really preside over that did he. He was ousted from his role by Chappel and Whitehand for our relegation season (from the Championship) and their decision to sell our higher earners and leave us starting a season with one senior centre half was crucial in what followed. Of course that relegation left us with no parachute payments, tiny TV income and some huge wages to build a recovery from. I don't get the Murray bashing. Is he perfect? Is anyone?! Has he made mistakes? Hasn't everyone?! If you look over the full term of his tenure he was hugely successful, slow build of the club, development of the Valley - until the catastrophic gamble on Dowie and the future monies (although few of us were complaining at so much money being made available). Had it been successful would have reaped us a very different future with the then new Prem TV deal; it wasn't, of course. Despite all that, along with the rest of the board at that time he's lost a lot of money keeping Charlton alive. Not sure when he's 'proclaimed [two relegations] as a trumph,' perhaps you could post a link... EDIT: And fk me, what a sense of entitlement! You are where you are in the football pyramid. If you don't get the results you deserve to be where you are. We didn't have the resources to earn winning that league and 101 points. Why people can't celebrate one of the few honours our club has had in its history is beyond me. Are you really so anti-Powell that you can't allow yourself to recognise a rare achievement? Nobody forced Murray to hire Dowie. He did it solely to put one over his arch rival Simon Jordan. Nobody forced Murray to then appoint Les Reed, who was to Premier League management what Ed Miliband is to speaking without notes. Nobody forced Murray to appoint Pardew, and let him run amok and piss millions up the wall. And nobody forced Murray to appoint Parky, despite saying he would be judged solely on results after a winless 8 game run as caretaker. That is quite a catalogue of howlers, and there are many more, including allowing a small nucleus of half a dozen fans to hide up his arse for years and reduce our shares to the value of a bog roll.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 16:40:50 GMT
Ye, rik, please move on. All this cheap sentimental drivel about how Powell got us our Charlton back and Curbs wasn't proper Charlton he was West Ham is just spin and tosh.
You forget Powell took us into a relegation place with some of the worst football we have played in 30 years. If anyone "got our Charlton back" (and I'm sorry but I really detest that trite and mawkish phrase) it was RD who rescued the club from Slater and Jiminez, under whom we were heading for oblivion.
Instead of all this misty-eyed nostalgia for the Good Old Days of Sir Chris, why can't you just enjoy the fact that there is a better artmopshere and more of a buzz around the Valley now than at any time in the last eight years and we owe that to RD and Bob Peeters?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 16:43:54 GMT
Danny Mills was also a quality full back for us who got England caps. Why doesn't he get the puke -inducing love in that Powell gets #politicallycorrectshroudwavers
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 16:45:22 GMT
"A good start nothing more nothing less"? I don't know why you have to be so begrudging. Ten games undefeated is our most impressive start ever in the Championship. In the promotion year of 1997-8 we had lost three times by this stage and in the promotion campaign of 1999-2000 we lost two of our first ten games. Haven't looked back fully to the pre-premiership days of div two, but Lawrence lost two of the first ten in the promotion season of 1985/86. So in remaining undefeated after ten games, Peeters has made a more promising start than any of our last three promotion campaigns from this division. We stil have it all do over the remaining three-quarters of the seaason. But your mealy-mouthed reluctance to give Peeters due credit for what he has so far achieved comes across as carping and mean-spirited. I hated every minute of being in div three and when we got out of it the feeling was one of relief rather than elation. l think I'll just l leave to bask happily in the memory of the "glory" of coming 45th out of 92 when we topped that awful, useless third tier. If that was such a highlight of your football watching career, I feel sorry for you! You do this a lot IA, take away all the context from my posts, ignore half of what I say and try to make them mean something entirely different. I was responding in the context of the OP that claimed Bob was a miracle worker. It's a good start, I said that as clear as day. Not begrudging anything, but not rushing to hero worship as you and Colin seem so keen to do. FFS there are still 36 games to go. If we get a point a game from them we're down. If we get 2 points a game from them we're probably up. Let's not rush to acclaim Bob Peeters as the new Lennie Lawrence when he might turn out after a full season to be the new Alan Pardew. As for being a better start than our last 3 promotions from this level, didn't we win 7 of our first ten games in 1999/2000? And yes, Charlton winning a league title for only the second time in the 40 years I've been watching them was indeed a highlight. I have no shame whatsoever in saying that, and I'm amazed any Charlton supporter could think any other way. I'd have to be in my 80s or 90s to have seen another title win. If you're so begrudging that it was Chris Powell that did it, then frankly it's you that needs the sympathy not me. Each to their own I guess. And really - do you not see how ludicrous Colin's claims for Bob Peeters are? A miracle worker, really? As good as Lennie - really?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 16:49:15 GMT
Rik - how is Bexley's ridiculous statement about Peeters different to your equally ridiculous statement about Powell?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 16:52:21 GMT
Well, except Murray didn't really preside over that did he. He was ousted from his role by Chappel and Whitehand for our relegation season (from the Championship) and their decision to sell our higher earners and leave us starting a season with one senior centre half was crucial in what followed. Of course that relegation left us with no parachute payments, tiny TV income and some huge wages to build a recovery from. I don't get the Murray bashing. Is he perfect? Is anyone?! Has he made mistakes? Hasn't everyone?! If you look over the full term of his tenure he was hugely successful, slow build of the club, development of the Valley - until the catastrophic gamble on Dowie and the future monies (although few of us were complaining at so much money being made available). Had it been successful would have reaped us a very different future with the then new Prem TV deal; it wasn't, of course. Despite all that, along with the rest of the board at that time he's lost a lot of money keeping Charlton alive. Not sure when he's 'proclaimed [two relegations] as a trumph,' perhaps you could post a link... EDIT: And fk me, what a sense of entitlement! You are where you are in the football pyramid. If you don't get the results you deserve to be where you are. We didn't have the resources to earn winning that league and 101 points. Why people can't celebrate one of the few honours our club has had in its history is beyond me. Are you really so anti-Powell that you can't allow yourself to recognise a rare achievement? Nobody forced Murray to hire Dowie. He did it solely to put one over his arch rival Simon Jordan. Nobody forced Murray to then appoint Les Reed, who was to Premier League management what Ed Miliband is to speaking without notes. Nobody forced Murray to appoint Pardew, and let him run amok and pissmillions up the wall. And nobody forced Murray to appoint Parky, despite saying he would be judged solely on results after a winless 8 game run as caretaker. That is quite a catalogue of howlers, and there are many more, including allowing a small nucleus of half a dozen fans to hide up his arse for years and our shares to the value of a bog roll. Nobody forced him to sack Gritt and hire Curbs in the first place. No-one forced him to negotiate a deal for Mendonca before asking Curbs if he fancied him. No-one forced him to plough endless millions into the club with little return. No-one forced him to back our overdraft with the bank when we were being bankrolled by Cash. But yes he did make mistakes, of course he did. There weren't many of us (at least who aren't revisionists) who didn't welcome the appointment of Pardew at the time, nor that Murray made money available for those two seasons. We didn't go up in that second season, of course, but we went down again because our best players were sold and the money was withheld to replace them (as well as the 'Pardew after two years' thing of course), not by Murray but by the board members who usurped him. Of course none of this means that he didn't oversee the most successful period in our history, at least since the days of Jimmy Seed. And anyone who imagined the shares would ever be worth even as much as the value of a bog roll was and is a deluded fool.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 16:56:32 GMT
"You do this a lot IA, take away all the context from my posts, ignore half of what I say and try to make them mean something entirely different. "
Youy're such a hypocrite, rik, because that'e exactly what you have just done, isn't it - taken away all the context from my posts, ignore most of what I have said and tried to make it mean something entirely different by equating my views with those of Colin.
Where have I agreed with anything he's said? And who said I begrudge that Powell got us out of div three? Another example of you putting words in the mouth of others that were never uttered.
Then you have the nerve to ... oh forget it. It's a waste of breath. As said, I'll just leave you to your happy, nostaslgic dreams of Div Three and all those triumphant away trips to take on the might of Exeter, Scunthorpe, Yeovil, Wycombe etc. Forgive me if I get on with living in - and enjoying - the present.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 17:01:06 GMT
I take my hat off to Scabby over on Charlton Life on the "I am begging you" thread. It has everything. Pomposity in spades from Ben Hayes and Richard Hunt (that is Cockney rhyming slang...). Kent Addick pointlessly digging out Reams, yet again. Sadie wetting her kecks just because she met Sir Chris ( so what.....). And Valley Gary still trying to master the keyboard. Go on my Scabby
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 17:22:55 GMT
"You do this a lot IA, take away all the context from my posts, ignore half of what I say and try to make them mean something entirely different. " Youy're such a hypocrite, rik, because that'e exactly what you have just done, isn't it - taken away all the context from my posts, ignore most of what I have said and tried to make it mean something entirely different by equating my views with those of Colin. Where have I agreed with anything he's said? And who said I begrudge that Powell got us out of div three? Another example of you putting words in the mouth of others that were never uttered. Then you have the nerve to ... oh forget it. It's a waste of breath. As said, I'll just leave you to your happy, nostaslgic dreams of Div Three and all those triumphant away trips to take on the might of Exeter, Scunthorpe, Yeovil, Wycombe etc. Forgive me if I get on with living in - and enjoying - the present. Fair cop. To a point. I stand by my view that if you can't celebrate only the second title win in your lifetime then something's wrong somewhere - actually not just that but to ridicule fellow supporters that do, ffs. We're not entitled to a second tier position - yes in some ways it was shameful that a club like ours ended up down there (although there's a wider issue in the ability of established Premiership clubs to cope with relegation financially) but all the more reason for celebrating our return surely? Anything else is simply 'entitlement'. If your kid falls over at sports day and ends up at the back of a race, if they get up and recover one or two places do you not think the achievement still worthy? Or do you deride them because that's where they should have been in the first place? Actually lots of parents do the latter, they do it at football matches most sadly. Notwithstanding, I think it's right to acknowledge the recovery. Our agreed top three managers all saw us relegated in their tenure. This doesn't diminish in any way their achievements. It's a fact that Powell didn't get us relegated - a matter of opinion only that he would have done, and at the time we were bottom we had 4 games in hand having to make up, what was it, 2 or 3 points? - but even if he had have done, it doesn't undo his title season. Unless, presumably, you discount Mike Bailey's entire time as manager, Andy Nelson's one promotion and Jimmy Seed's third tier achievements before that? I find your comparison that concludes 'remaining undefeated' with 4 wins in 10 is 'more promising' than losing 2 but winning 7 in 10 (in 99/00) hard to support. I also find thinking me saying "It's a good start" and "I'm a big Peeters fan" equates to a reluctance to give Peeters due credit. In fact, isn't that the exact opposite? It's a fact, however, that it's just 10 games. If we remain unbeaten but win no more games, we'll only have 3 points more than last season. And frankly we're not exactly set up to win games at the moment. Maybe there's a fundamental difference between us. I like football at all levels. I'd like to see us compete at the highest level, but I still take joy from us competing in whatever league we're in. And especially when we're winning a title, breaking 13 all time club records along the way. I'm simply not going to apologise for that mate. Or, for what it's worth, attempt to support someone who claims 4 wins in 10 is miraculous, comparable to Lennie's finest achievements, not least because Riga alone won more in his last ten of last season.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 17:31:20 GMT
Rik - how is Bexley's ridiculous statement about Peeters different to your equally ridiculous statement about Powell? Assuming you're talking about my placing Powell 4th in the list of post-war Charlton managers, which post-war managers do you think are ahead of him (behind Curbs, Seed and Lawrence) in terms of their actual achievements? It's just that between Seed and Lawrence, the only honours we can possibly consider are Bailey's Third Division third place and Nelson's Third Division third place. I guess what Colin is saying is that we have Curbs, Seed, then Lawrence and Bob Peeters on joint third. Is that less or more ridiculous than suggesting the post-war manager who's been most successful in terms of honours after the first three should be considered 4th? (Why do I bother arguing with the WUMs).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 17:44:47 GMT
(Why do I bother arguing with the WUMs). Because you love it and like any good press officer/spin doctor, you never pass on an opportunity to get in a party politcal broadcast for your man!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 17:49:32 GMT
I take my hat off to Scabby over on Charlton Life on the "I am begging you" thread. It has everything. Pomposity in spades from Ben Hayes and Richard Hunt (that is Cockney rhyming slang...). Kent Addick pointlessly digging out Reams, yet again. Sadie wetting her kecks just because she met Sir Chris ( so what.....). And Valley Gary still trying to master the keyboard. Go on my Scabby Does scabby have incriminating photos of wee AFKA and the lOOpy lOOkOut character - because many have been banned by that pair of witless gauleiters for far less!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 17:58:05 GMT
(Why do I bother arguing with the WUMs). Because you love it and like any good press officer/spin doctor, you never pass on an opportunity to get in a party politcal broadcast for your man! Ah IA, I do love it. But hardly a spin doctor, I just say it as I see it. I really didn't want to provoke yet another Chris Powell discussion because frankly he's gone and we should all move on - but I do find it hard to see why people even want to attempt to reduce a 101-point, 13-records-breaking, only-the 2nd-title-since-the-war-winning season to 'the least we should all have expected'. Peeters hasn't achieved anything yet - but as I say, if he goes on to be our 4th most successful manager of all time I'll be dancing in the streets with everyone. Well everyone except BexleyBoy because he'll be too busy creaming himself.
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Post by scabbyhorse on Oct 4, 2014 4:32:37 GMT
Some on CL are a touch to sensitive and need to lighten up and toughen up a touch. I have never criticised Mr Powell as a person just his shit football. What I do find odd is how easily a few are offended on there when you say this and then start banging on about how what a lovely man he is which for me is never in question. There is a poster on there who stalks me constantly and flags everything I have a input on which I find amusing instead of abusing, I think he thinks a magical fist appears from your screen and smashes you one in the face everytime he flags me. As ive said though they need to lighten up a bit ;-)
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pn87
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Post by pn87 on Oct 4, 2014 5:32:20 GMT
Since Curbs, Powell has done his bit unfortunately his management turnt sour and he had to go, but don't forget what he achieved as a CAFC manager, got us out of that awful league 1 on a shoestring budget, nearly made the play offs in the championship after that but then for some reason he messed it all up. Then Riga saved us from relegation, for some reason he moved on, now Bob Peeters, yes we've had a great start but it won't last forever and if things start going wrong then we'll see what he's made of. Since curbs:
1: Powell 2. Riga 3. Peeters 4. Parkinson 5. Pardew 6. Reed 7. Gargoyle (sloth) (frankenstiens monster) (Quasimodo) (Dowie)
I know some will disagree with Powell but I'm only going on his promotion and wins ratio
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 9:03:11 GMT
Since Curbs, Powell has done his bit unfortunately his management turnt sour and he had to go, but don't forget what he achieved as a CAFC manager, got us out of that awful league 1 on a shoestring budget, nearly made the play offs in the championship after that but then for some reason he messed it all up. Then Riga saved us from relegation, for some reason he moved on, now Bob Peeters, yes we've had a great start but it won't last forever and if things start going wrong then we'll see what he's made of. Since curbs: 1: Powell 2. Riga 3. Peeters 4. Parkinson 5. Pardew 6. Reed 7. Gargoyle (sloth) (frankenstiens monster) (Quasimodo) (Dowie) I know some will disagree with Powell but I'm only going on his promotion and wins ratio Excellent post, couldn't agree more.
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Post by bigandy99 on Oct 4, 2014 11:11:12 GMT
I really don't understand why we have to keep on about former managers and who was best etc - we must live in the present as it's all that counts.
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Post by ridgeback on Oct 4, 2014 11:24:18 GMT
Since Curbs, Powell has done his bit unfortunately his management turnt sour and he had to go, but don't forget what he achieved as a CAFC manager, got us out of that awful league 1 on a shoestring budget, nearly made the play offs in the championship after that but then for some reason he messed it all up. Then Riga saved us from relegation, for some reason he moved on, now Bob Peeters, yes we've had a great start but it won't last forever and if things start going wrong then we'll see what he's made of. Since curbs: 1: Powell 2. Riga 3. Peeters 4. Parkinson 5. Pardew 6. Reed 7. Gargoyle (sloth) (frankenstiens monster) (Quasimodo) (Dowie) I know some will disagree with Powell but I'm only going on his promotion and wins ratio
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Post by ridgeback on Oct 4, 2014 11:24:52 GMT
Here we go again.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 11:39:14 GMT
I am bored rigid with the whole Powell debate,it has been done to death. He got us promoted which i will forever be thankful for.He did really badly last Season and deserved to be replaced. I am also forever grateful to Jose Riga for keeping us in the division.I am grateful to RD for appointing Bob Peeters and i am grateful to Peeters for getting us to sixth and bringing in the likes of Vetokele, Buyens, TBH and Bikey. I will be even more grateful if RD brings in another striker and central midfield player.
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Post by terryducks on Oct 4, 2014 13:31:29 GMT
League one success should be seen as what it is ...League one. Sad bastards to be excited by success in such a shit league. reach a bit higher perhaps then we might do what most clubs have done our size and won something like a cup or competed in europe.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 16:41:39 GMT
Let's put this thread to bed guys, think it has been done to death.
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pn87
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Post by pn87 on Oct 6, 2014 4:07:37 GMT
Sorry for mentioning the past... But that's all we've got right now, a lot of fans moaning about the Birmingham draw,, relax things are going well, if u don't like hearing about the past then someone talk about something positive for the future? Say something, anything! Don't moan about the past and then moan about the present
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