|
Post by jonkool on Sept 20, 2014 22:19:06 GMT
Most forum contributors aren't nutters Dick but there's the usual keyboard warriors ho are so brave when they're typing furiously in their back bedrooms m8
Just be grateful that the majority of us have a sense of proportion and a grip on reality. Allegedly we all support the same organisation although sometimes you have to wonder!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 6:51:34 GMT
I have asked OldMod ( who looks suspiciously like Richard Murray....) to provide me with his e mail address, so that I can submit my copy to him for proof reading before I post after Boro next week.
|
|
|
Post by muttleycafc on Sept 21, 2014 6:58:50 GMT
Yes, we have to find a way to counter when teams play high up the pitch. The best way is usually to try to get in behind them, but this is not so easy when you are only thinking about stopping them. The problem is it is a game of wills - the opposition manager is basically calling your bluff - you are ahead and he is taking the risk you want to preserve what you have more than you want to risk going for another.
Going back a couple of seasons, I remember playing Palace off the park at Selhurst but missed chances and went in 1 up instead of 3 or 4 up. I had gone with a Palace supporting mate (I know!)but at half time he was apologising for how rubbish they were and predicting we would thrash them. I knew Holloway would play his jokers and go for broke and that we would sit back - just knew it because that is how we played so told him they were favourites now in my eyes as I knew us and we hadn't finished them off. We lost 2-1 as you will all probably know.
I recall this, because it was my biggest criticism of Powell throughout his time with us. I could never work out why if we were superior why we didn't back ourselves more. This does seem to be a trait with Peeters. He has put a very good side together but when another manager plays their joker for me, you see it as an opportunity to go for a second. Sure it can backfire, but sitting back changes the dynamic of the game. Yes, we beat Watford doing that, and possibly Derby too to a lesser degree but we really do have to back ourselves a bit more in certain games. If we are one up against Rotherham and they play their Joker- we need to dust ours off too and prioritise getting a second. Use their desperation against them rather than help them. I always preferred playing against teams like Leicester, because managers like Nigel Pearson hold on to their joker for longer if they are only a goal down. The approach of the more maverick managers didn't suit us under Powell and doesn't seem to be suiting us under Peeters.
I don't think it is about fitness- it is about approach. Teams don't start off taking risks, they do it because they have too. They demand you react and gamble that if you have the lead you are less likely to try to exploit the weakness elsewhere in their set up it creates. Of course if teams took this approach from the start, we would be rubbing our hands together in excitement - it is only when we have something in the bag, we are too afraid to lose it!
The positives remain - we have good players and are a new team that should improve. I just think the manager and coaches, and indeed players have to work out this detail and find a better way going forwards.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 8:05:41 GMT
Muttley,
I am not sure Peeters has 'put a very good side together'. That seems a bit OTT to me, although our starting X1 is stronger than last seasons. Fitness must be a factor, else why do we fade so badly in most games? We must be a dream for opposition scouts...we repeat the same performance in every game.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 8:35:40 GMT
I have asked OldMod ( who looks suspiciously like Richard Murray....) to provide me with his e mail address, so that I can submit my copy to him for proof reading before I post after Boro next week. No you haven't. Did you or did you not claim "Tucudean was largely invisible" before editing your post?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 8:37:04 GMT
Sorry to sound like a broken record but we need reinforcements. Vetokele is getting a pounding and he needs a big centre forward to take the weight off. We also need some legs in the middle of midfield. We are a small squad in terms of quality and the cracks are beginning to show. With the next two matches being Boro and Norwich, I fear the worst. My team for the next game
Henderson Solly, Bikey, Ben Haim, Wiggins
Cousins, Buyens, Jackson, Gudmonnsson , Bulot Vetokele
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 8:38:17 GMT
I have asked OldMod ( who looks suspiciously like Richard Murray....) to provide me with his e mail address, so that I can submit my copy to him for proof reading before I post after Boro next week. No you haven't. Did you or did you not claim "Tucudean was largely invisible" before editing your post? So he made a mistake, let it go.
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Sept 21, 2014 9:17:47 GMT
Concerned to why some players are blowing out of their arses come 70 minutes, I have read that Rotherham looked fitter than us which has to be a worry.
|
|
|
Post by muttleycafc on Sept 21, 2014 11:19:51 GMT
If it were down to fitness, the performance would have changed on 70 minutes - where in reality as it changed after the break it isn't a great leap to say it is tactical/our approach.
We are still only one of two unbeaten teams so the team has to be half decent. True it can be improved and it isn't rocket science to see where, Not right IMO to be so knee jerk. We are decently placed and I do expect us to improve.
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Sept 21, 2014 12:45:53 GMT
Anybody see Calum Harriott having a go at Bulot late on yesterday after the new man almost scored. Harriott wanted the glory and personally I can't stand the kid he thinks he's better than he is and needs to be released with Church.
As for the quality in the squad, last season's was dire this season it's better but compared to other squads we are average at best.
It's no good having Vetokele if the back up is Church just the same as it's no good having JBG if his back up is Harriott.
There is no bite or aggression in midfield or aerial threat up front and to be honest every time I hear or read Peeters saying he is happy with the squad the more I think he is talking through his arse.
We have a poor away record, yes poor 4 points from 12 and have played all three L1 clubs from last season and failed to beat the lot of them.
The bullshit talk needs to stop, we need three players very very soon.
|
|
|
Post by MurciaAl on Sept 21, 2014 14:03:54 GMT
As I have said on another thread, I enjoyed the train journey home talking to one of the club staff. We were talking about some of the players, he said Jackson and Wilson were decent lads, but one he couldn't stand because he is so far up his own arse, and thinks he is much better than he really is, step forward Calum Harriott!
|
|
|
Post by millerbri on Sept 21, 2014 14:11:10 GMT
Brief summary of the game.. We were the better side first half, well taken goal and tried to push on and kill the game . Couldnt get the second. Rotherham the worst side we have played this season apart from Colchester. Their new ground is a horrible Tupperware job with the fans dotted around like pigeon droppings. Elland Road it aint. Second half followed now familiar pattern....after an hour our midfield wilted and then got over run. Pushed too deep, with Cousins again wasted on wing. Their goal was inevitable and they could have gone on to win. MOM for me was JBH or Bikey. Jacko again weak and strikers largely invisible. Igor grafted but hardly saw the ball second half. Having seen every game up to now, suggest Peeters goes back to the tactics board this week as he is too keen to defend a leader and we should beat shit like Rotherham. Would also like to know why many of our players cant last 90 min. Fair support up there today & most of the players came over at full time. Millers fan here, I usually have a quick look at our opposition’s forum to see how they have seen the game but I usually can’t be bothered to register to give a reply. Most on here seem reasonable, but you friend have managed to get a bite out of me, well done. Now I know we all see games differently but to say you were the better side first half makes it sound like there was only one team in it………Not true, for the first 20 minutes Rotherham were comfortably on top then Charlton got a grip and then scored on 27 minutes and admittedly bossed the game up to half time. Second half there was only one team in it so the “worst team apart from Colchester” didn’t do too badly did they? We may be a “shit team” in your eyes but we have earned our place in the Championship the hard way and deserve a bit of respect for that achievement. I would have thought the fans of Charlton would have had a bit more class given your circumstances since the halcyon days under Curbishley. “Their new ground is a horrible Tupperware job with the fans dotted around like pigeon droppings. Elland Road it aint”. The stadium has won numerous awards and if you look at the Football League grounds guide has received lots praise from visiting fans, maybe you are harder to please but your comments about fans being dotted around makes no sense. Charlton were given the whole South Stand so we only kept 9500 seats for home fans, there were around 8500 home fans present so there were only 1000 maybe less spare seats spread over 3 stands……do you understand what I am saying about the “dotting”? To the rest of the Charlton fans, well done for showing good support for your team and some balanced views on here and good luck for the rest of the season. But Royston Vasey really are you for real….I suppose there’s one in every village.
|
|
|
Post by MurciaAl on Sept 21, 2014 14:53:58 GMT
Hi Millerbri, we all have a village idiot, and now you've met ours!
I personally enjoyed visiting your ground and found it to be a decent place. The stewards inside the ground were friendly although the ones outside were a bit fussy. Enjoyed my day out and your team outplayed us in the second half and deserved at least a point. Good luck for the rest of the season.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 16:00:16 GMT
it's quite simple, sure up the Defence or bring in another goalscorer.
|
|
|
Post by jonkool on Sept 21, 2014 17:18:32 GMT
Sorry to sound like a broken record but we need reinforcements. Vetokele is getting a pounding and he needs a big centre forward to take the weight off. We also need some legs in the middle of midfield. We are a small squad in terms of quality and the cracks are beginning to show. With the next two matches being Boro and Norwich, I fear the worst. My team for the next game Henderson Solly, Bikey, Ben Haim, Wiggins Cousins, Buyens, Jackson, Gudmonnsson , Bulot Vetokele Bob likes a 4-4-2 with one of the strikers dropping in where necessary but Yoni and Jacko need support so your 4-3-3 with Jordan adding extra legs and cover looks a better option. But we all know - as does Bob - that we need to strengthen and I'm sure we are being active with a view to thee nd of the month loan signings.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 17:58:46 GMT
Hi Millerbri, we all have a village idiot, and now you've met ours! I personally enjoyed visiting your ground and found it to be a decent place. The stewards inside the ground were friendly although the ones outside were a bit fussy. Enjoyed my day out and your team outplayed us in the second half and deserved at least a point. Good luck for the rest of the season. It is a game of opinions Al - that last comment was poor.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 18:01:09 GMT
Brief summary of the game.. We were the better side first half, well taken goal and tried to push on and kill the game . Couldnt get the second. Rotherham the worst side we have played this season apart from Colchester. Their new ground is a horrible Tupperware job with the fans dotted around like pigeon droppings. Elland Road it aint. Second half followed now familiar pattern....after an hour our midfield wilted and then got over run. Pushed too deep, with Cousins again wasted on wing. Their goal was inevitable and they could have gone on to win. MOM for me was JBH or Bikey. Jacko again weak and strikers largely invisible. Igor grafted but hardly saw the ball second half. Having seen every game up to now, suggest Peeters goes back to the tactics board this week as he is too keen to defend a leader and we should beat shit like Rotherham. Would also like to know why many of our players cant last 90 min. Fair support up there today & most of the players came over at full time. Millers fan here, I usually have a quick look at our opposition’s forum to see how they have seen the game but I usually can’t be bothered to register to give a reply. Most on here seem reasonable, but you friend have managed to get a bite out of me, well done. Now I know we all see games differently but to say you were the better side first half makes it sound like there was only one team in it………Not true, for the first 20 minutes Rotherham were comfortably on top then Charlton got a grip and then scored on 27 minutes and admittedly bossed the game up to half time. Second half there was only one team in it so the “worst team apart from Colchester” didn’t do too badly did they? We may be a “shit team” in your eyes but we have earned our place in the Championship the hard way and deserve a bit of respect for that achievement. I would have thought the fans of Charlton would have had a bit more class given your circumstances since the halcyon days under Curbishley. “Their new ground is a horrible Tupperware job with the fans dotted around like pigeon droppings. Elland Road it aint”. The stadium has won numerous awards and if you look at the Football League grounds guide has received lots praise from visiting fans, maybe you are harder to please but your comments about fans being dotted around makes no sense. Charlton were given the whole South Stand so we only kept 9500 seats for home fans, there were around 8500 home fans present so there were only 1000 maybe less spare seats spread over 3 stands……do you understand what I am saying about the “dotting”? To the rest of the Charlton fans, well done for showing good support for your team and some balanced views on here and good luck for the rest of the season. But Royston Vasey really are you for real….I suppose there’s one in every village. I had a walk around Rotherham before kick off, it makes Barnsley look like Kensington and Chelsea.
|
|
|
Post by MurciaAl on Sept 21, 2014 19:07:01 GMT
Royston, we have had some interesting debates on here in the past, but you do let yourself down with some of your comments:-
“Their new ground is a horrible Tupperware job with the fans dotted around like pigeon droppings. Elland Road it aint”.
That's a totally unfair comment to make. They are a smaller club that have done well getting back into the championship and I thought the new ground was a pretty decent stadium albeit small. It has all the amenities and good disabled facilities.
But as you say, it's all about opinions
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 19:49:14 GMT
Royston, we have had some interesting debates on here in the past, but you do let yourself down with some of your comments:- “Their new ground is a horrible Tupperware job with the fans dotted around like pigeon droppings. Elland Road it aint”. That's a totally unfair comment to make. They are a smaller club that have done well getting back into the championship and I thought the new ground was a pretty decent stadium albeit small. It has all the amenities and good disabled facilities. But as you say, it's all about opinions How is giving my honest view on what i thought of their new stadium yesterday letting myself down. It is souless, a bit like a smaller version of the Madjeski. It is not the only purpose built new ground like this....Doncaster, Leicester and Coventry all lost a bit of their DNA with bland new
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 19:51:26 GMT
Ladies and gentlemen I have to respectfully disagree with some of the sentiments on here. I understand the concerns going forward but can we please take a step back and show a little respect for what this new squad has achieved to this point? To those calling for a “reality check”, projecting future failure unless immediate reinforcements arrive can I politely point out many are firmly in touch with reality thank you very much and I suspect that includes the coaching team at the club.
At the start of this season the number of Championship appearances made in the 2013/2014 season by 8 of the starting 11 totalled just 14, Henderson 2, Solly 12, Ben Haim 0, Amougou-Bikey 0, Buyens 0, Berg Gudmonsson 0, Vetokele 0, Tucudean 0. Of the remainder Wiggins is still recovering his game following an injury late last season and Cousins is doing a job for the team wide left. At the same time we have included 3 of the development squad Pope, Gomez and Fox who had previously made only 5 starts before this season.
In essence just 1 player Jackson who played regularly last season is playing in the same position in the same division as last season.
The reality is this squad and its construct are still in their infancy but the current players have all put in their shift to deliver, results wise, a very decent start to the season. The maxim is we will go out to win and if we cannot win we will not lose. The current players ARE delivering to that standard. We all know we have actually achieved nothing as yet but surely we can acknowledge there are promising signs. The challenge for us all is to show some patience as the squad and the players continue to develop.
With a new squad, many new or returning to the intensity of the Championship, with an emphasis on youth, consistency was always going to be a major issue. We are trying to play passing football and in most games have had the chances to score goals. When it is not working we have shown enough defensive discipline to get something from the game. It is plain for all to see we are struggling to dominate games but the game plan and the pattern of play are making us difficult to beat.
We know we at some point are going to lose games this season and maybe lose as many as we win but that is where we are as a club at the moment. At the very least we have shown to this point we are able to compete and able to win games. Sure if certain opposing players had taken some opportunities things would be different but were Brentford lucky the Harriott shot hit the bar? Were Wolves lucky Tucudean missed 2 or 3 good chances? That is sport and football. Had those efforts gone in and we not had a “mad few moments at Brighton” we would have 6 more points and won 6 out of 8 games.
We are trying to play passing football and sides will close us down and make it difficult for us to play. Defensively we are not playing a pressing game but are achieving results by closing down the lines and space in the final 1/3rd. That is fundamentally different from setting up to 2 defensive sets of 4 in a structure simply designed to stop the other side playing, in the hope of nicking a win here or there.
Players will get it wrong so from an attacking and defensive point of view they are the challenges the players will have to learn to overcome. Some may not make the grade but the current squad are going to be given every chance to show they can play. We are far from perfect but in terms of the players understanding each other and modifying playing styles or patterns of play we have barely scratched the surface.
It is a smaller squad than we have seen in recent years but the construct of the current squad (for me) is no surprise. I view one challenge RD had with Powell was the number of pro’s on the staff. I can imagine in January he asked CP to explain why he needed more players if he already had 40+ pro’s under contract.
We have taken a step back in time. Pre PL 25 named squads we carried 2 keepers, 3 full backs, 3 central defenders, 3 wide mid-field, 3 central midfield, 4 forwards & 2 utility – 20 players. It keeps everyone active and now with 7 allowed on the bench it involves the full squad plus on average wages say £5kpw you have pretty much take £1mn off the wage bill.
The downside is of course injuries, loss of form and fatigue. It is a risk but at the moment we are not going to be spending money unless we really can find the affordable upgrades to make a difference. From day 1 the whole process has been about assessing exactly we have on staff and whether they can develop going forward. Remember some of the comments on the Welling friendly which ignored most of those playing were out there to show what they could do to establish a pecking order for the first team squad . Well the same is going on today.
We constructed the 1st team squad by retaining 8 seniors - Solly, Morrisson, Wiggins, Wilson, Cousins, Jackson, Harriott, Church - promoting 3 reserves: Pope, Gomez, Fox - recruiting 9 seniors: Henderson, Ben Haim, Bikey, Berg Gudmundsson, Bulot, Buyens, Moussa, Vetokele & Tucudean
In support we have a 15+ strong development squad of which Phillips, Lennon, Munns, Ansah, Piggot are likely the first names in the frame to supplement the main squad with Ahearne-Grant, Muldoon, and Holmes Dennis also knocking on the door. None of them may be good enough to step up and they are going to have to earn their slot in the first team squad. That too will require patience.
The approach is going to be if the squad needs to be strengthened Peeters will first look “in house”, i.e. the academy or the network before asking the ownership to spend. If Peeters feels he can develop “in house” talent needed, it will be the focus. If he does not see that talent is available then the club as with the Delort saga and the possibility of 2 two other deadline day signings the club will try to add quality at the right price.
The position we see today is we have established a solid starting point. I suggest the least we can do at this stage is allow those players who have contributed to such a start the opportunity to see just how far they can take us. As is the way of things a few will fall by the wayside at which point I would rather ensure we had the best financial resources available to bring in players genuinely capable of making that difference.
Patience sometimes really can be a virtue.
|
|
|
Post by millerbri on Sept 21, 2014 20:02:18 GMT
I had a walk around Rotherham before kick off, it makes Barnsley look like Kensington and Chelsea. I never argue with a fool - they lower you down to their level and then beat you with experience! Please don't visit again.
|
|
|
Post by canterburyaddick on Sept 21, 2014 23:21:12 GMT
Grapevine I have to admit that I don't really understand what you are saying here. We are obviously setting up two banks of four with everyone moving back to a set structure once the ball is lost, I can see that but you seem to be suggesting something different please explain.
|
|
|
Post by americanaddick on Sept 22, 2014 11:16:00 GMT
Anybody see Calum Harriott having a go at Bulot late on yesterday after the new man almost scored. Harriott wanted the glory and personally I can't stand the kid he thinks he's better than he is and needs to be released with Church. As for the quality in the squad, last season's was dire this season it's better but compared to other squads we are average at best. It's no good having Vetokele if the back up is Church just the same as it's no good having JBG if his back up is Harriott. There is no bite or aggression in midfield or aerial threat up front and to be honest every time I hear or read Peeters saying he is happy with the squad the more I think he is talking through his arse. We have a poor away record, yes poor 4 points from 12 and have played all three L1 clubs from last season and failed to beat the lot of them. The bullshit talk needs to stop, we need three players very very soon. I woukdn't say release Harriott. Instead, sell him! Agree with you on the rest though
|
|
|
Post by muttleycafc on Sept 22, 2014 11:55:41 GMT
I'd say - leave managing Harriot to Peeters. Oh that is what will happen good! We don't need all these petty agendas about a young player. Yes, he could have done a lot better in his last two sub appearances- I won't argue- in fact i'll agree with that statement - but he does have potential. Whether we get the benefit having foundnd a reliable way to untap that is down to the coaching staff and the player - fortunately none on here!
|
|