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Post by addickted on Dec 31, 2013 16:02:27 GMT
Nice to know lord Murray was charging 7 / 8 % of the purchase price (pal assumed) for the use of the training ground , my simple math makes this around 70/80k a year ? Nice bit of beer money that He didn't buy it though - do keep up.
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Post by addickted on Dec 31, 2013 16:08:09 GMT
Potless? So how many shares did you have? Does it matter ? Not many as it happens, I inherited them. Like everyones, they were reduced to nothing because of Richard Murray's poor management of the Club. So you lost, err...... absolutely nothing. Yet somehow in your mind, Murray left you 'potless'. You wriggle more than a politician.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 16:09:54 GMT
Nice to know lord Murray was charging 7 / 8 % of the purchase price (pal assumed) for the use of the training ground , my simple math makes this around 70/80k a year ? Nice bit of beer money that He didn't buy it though - do keep up. Missed this , where's it say he didn't buy it ? Thought it was owned by his pension company & family members ?? I'm aware the houses were not sold , not that bad a day after all :-)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 16:10:29 GMT
addickted
As with Chris Powell, you pay your money, you make your choice where Richard Murray is concerned.
My own view is that Murray was quite content to bask in the plaudits 1999-2006 during the Glory Years under Curbs. Not totally unjustifiably. Remember we used to hear about other medium sized clubs doing things "the Charlton way"?.
However, it soon became clear after Curbs left that he had carried Murray big time, for what else could explain 4 managers, 2 relegations, the brink of administration, the sale of our assets and a handover to the Brothers Grimm which followed? The odd mistake we could all accept...but so many...and over so short a period. It also stuck in the craw when Murray was very quick onto the pitch after League One promotion, yet didn't say a word in public to 99.9% of fans for six months during his Strategic Review. Remember that? No, he just chose to siphon the occasional message through his Useful Idiots, a couple of whom I believe you are friendly with.
So, my own view of Richard Murray can be summed up by the phrase of the great Sven Goran Erikkson
"first half rather good, second half rather bad"
Only Murray's second half was rather worse than bad.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 16:16:02 GMT
Does it matter ? Not many as it happens, I inherited them. Like everyones, they were reduced to nothing because of Richard Murray's poor management of the Club. So you lost, err...... absolutely nothing. Yet somehow in your mind, Murray left you 'potless'. You wriggle more than a politician. I think you are being silly now to justify your evident hero worship of the man. Let me clarify, as your attitude is actually quite disrespectful to all of our small shareholders from that time, not just to me. 1. My shares were worth a token amount. 2. Murray led a Board which royally rogered CAFC through mismanagement & bad decision making for six years. 3. My shares are now worth nothing. Got it
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Post by bingaddick on Dec 31, 2013 16:35:48 GMT
OK, here's the lowdown on the training ground. Murray purchased it from the club for £1.5m in 2009 throigh his company Alliance Trust Pensions Limited. Sir Maruice Hatter also has a stake through his registered charity, The Maurice Hatter Foundation. They purchased it on a 25 year lease and Murray's comments at the time now make interesting reading: "It might look like asset-stripping is going on, but that certainly isn't the case...the 25-year lease means the club has security of tenure and if, by any chance, the club came into some money which it wanted to invest back into the training ground, it's got an option to buy the training ground back.As most people will be aware, the directors have pumped a lot of money into the club and unfortunately, people like myself have just come to the end of their financial clout." I can perfectly understand that Murray now wants his money back. Sorry this is completely incorrect. It is true that they announced this was happening at the time but it was never implemented and a subsequent annoucement said that they did not go through with it. The club still owns the freehold.
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Post by bingaddick on Dec 31, 2013 16:42:30 GMT
Oops! not having a good day today, are we andy? The training ground was sold to Murray & hatter , fact Completely wrong in fact.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 16:49:12 GMT
Potless? So how many shares did you have? Does it matter ? Not many as it happens, I inherited them. Like everyones, they were reduced to nothing because of Richard Murray's poor management of the Club. Yep, everyone that had shares saw them reduced to nothing - including Murray and the rest of the board. They lost millions. They did it because it was the only way to attract a buyer and move on. In that context did you really want your £50 or so back?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 16:56:20 GMT
Did they not award them selfs shares then ? And Jo public buy shares ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 16:57:24 GMT
OK, here's the lowdown on the training ground. Murray purchased it from the club for £1.5m in 2009 throigh his company Alliance Trust Pensions Limited. Sir Maruice Hatter also has a stake through his registered charity, The Maurice Hatter Foundation. They purchased it on a 25 year lease and Murray's comments at the time now make interesting reading: "It might look like asset-stripping is going on, but that certainly isn't the case...the 25-year lease means the club has security of tenure and if, by any chance, the club came into some money which it wanted to invest back into the training ground, it's got an option to buy the training ground back.As most people will be aware, the directors have pumped a lot of money into the club and unfortunately, people like myself have just come to the end of their financial clout." I can perfectly understand that Murray now wants his money back. Sorry this is completely incorrect. It is true that they announced this was happening at the time but it was never implemented and a subsequent annoucement said that they did not go through with it. The club still owns the freehold. Can you provide a source for this ??
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Post by bingaddick on Dec 31, 2013 16:58:31 GMT
I lost all my shares as well. But then again I bought them to help my club - I thought that was what we all did?
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Post by bingaddick on Dec 31, 2013 17:08:01 GMT
Sorry this is completely incorrect. It is true that they announced this was happening at the time but it was never implemented and a subsequent annoucement said that they did not go through with it. The club still owns the freehold. Can you provide a source for this ?? taken from the CL thread on the T/O page 17 Airman Brown "This is what the due diligence document said about the training ground: "The Group also holds eight freeholds and one leasehold property in relation to the training ground. These are carried at £5.8m in the [2012] accounts." He is not the only one saying it and I remember reading somewhile ago that in the end they didn't sell it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 17:09:03 GMT
Did they not award them selfs shares then ? And Jo public buy shares ? The board put money in and took most of it as equity (shares). When the shares went for nowt they all did - small and large investors alike all got nish. Some of the board members had also made loans (ie they pumped in money they did not take as shares) and it's these loans that have been held over pending a promotion to the Prem. The thing is, as the shares were sold for nothing (apparently) then if the new owners make any dough on the sale it's only right that the previous directors get some of their (loan) dough back, otherwise these current boys could make a packet with no outlay (and limited risk if the rumours are true about Murray stumping up personally ang guaranteeing the overdraft). Complicated stuff. More complicated than one person simply selling his stake.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 17:13:34 GMT
We might all have differing information and views, but good to see it's productive. The best thing I've seen today is that most on here have the club as their first priority.
Keep up the good work lads.
ps. Nice to see you posting BA.
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Post by reamsofverse on Dec 31, 2013 17:39:43 GMT
If it wasn't for RM there might not be a Charlton for you to moan about. He has lost millions in his time with us. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind call him greedy ? That's football and the same goes for anything else in life. He tried and achieved success but it's turned sour and he is partly responsible for that, he appointed Dowie and that's when it all started going tits up. Many years down the line when his pensions and his kids inheritance are at risk he has changed his colours and is calling the shots by the sounds of things, why should he get back what he lost because of his own poor decision making? He should have got out when the going was good not, by not doing so he took a gamble and lost so he should piss off and stop rocking the boat?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 17:45:06 GMT
Did they not award them selfs shares then ? And Jo public buy shares ? The board put money in and took most of it as equity (shares). When the shares went for nowt they all did - small and large investors alike all got nish. Some of the board members had also made loans (ie they pumped in money they did not take as shares) and it's these loans that have been held over pending a promotion to the Prem. The thing is, as the shares were sold for nothing (apparently) then if the new owners make any dough on the sale it's only right that the previous directors get some of their (loan) dough back, otherwise these current boys could make a packet with no outlay (and limited risk if the rumours are true about Murray stumping up personally ang guaranteeing the overdraft). Complicated stuff. More complicated than one person simply selling his stake. Blimey , so how much did they take out / pay them selfs durning the golden prem years ?
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Post by reamsofverse on Dec 31, 2013 18:14:40 GMT
Josh Harris is due in a London Hotel with his entourage on Thursday.
It could be completely unrelated but the Americans are making big noises.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 18:37:37 GMT
The board put money in and took most of it as equity (shares). When the shares went for nowt they all did - small and large investors alike all got nish. Some of the board members had also made loans (ie they pumped in money they did not take as shares) and it's these loans that have been held over pending a promotion to the Prem. The thing is, as the shares were sold for nothing (apparently) then if the new owners make any dough on the sale it's only right that the previous directors get some of their (loan) dough back, otherwise these current boys could make a packet with no outlay (and limited risk if the rumours are true about Murray stumping up personally ang guaranteeing the overdraft). Complicated stuff. More complicated than one person simply selling his stake. Blimey , so how much did they take out / pay them selfs durning the golden prem years ? Nothing, as far as I'm aware. whatever I paid for my season ticket in the glory years was nothing to what some board members paid for theirs.
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Post by 19addickted96 on Dec 31, 2013 18:38:22 GMT
Josh Harris is due in a London Hotel with his entourage on Thursday. It could be completely unrelated but the Americans are making big noises. Can/will anything be tied up this week then reams? Just desperate for some cash to spend on transfers!
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Post by marksyboy on Dec 31, 2013 18:38:23 GMT
Have we been taken over yet ?!?!?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 18:38:25 GMT
It could be completely unrelated but the Americans are making big noises. That's Americans for you.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 18:46:54 GMT
God bless America that's all I've got to say ;-)
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Post by snippy05 on Dec 31, 2013 18:52:49 GMT
Yanks being late to the party?
Never.
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Post by marksyboy on Dec 31, 2013 19:04:26 GMT
The yanks only join when they know they are going to win
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Post by jonkool on Dec 31, 2013 19:06:25 GMT
Murray is a great communicator and clearly is an impressive business man. But the business that is footy is the drug that makes successful people throw their good business sense out of the window as their egos grow exponentially as they are surrounded by the media, multi million pound players and all the hangers on. No one at Sky wants to know their opinion when they appoint a new manager to their electronics business but they are there in their droves when a new football manager is appointed.
It becomes a very addictive and expensive drug and boy has Dicky lost the plot since that day when we waived farewell to Curbs and he appointed the clueless one just to spite the Tango man at Palace. Of course we know who laughed last!
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Post by marksyboy on Dec 31, 2013 19:08:55 GMT
Josh Harris is due in a London Hotel with his entourage on Thursday. It could be completely unrelated but the Americans are making big noises. Where did you hear that?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 19:16:57 GMT
It could be completely unrelated but the Americans are making big noises. That's Americans for you. That made me laugh...begrudgingly.
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Post by addickted on Dec 31, 2013 19:32:20 GMT
So you lost, err...... absolutely nothing. Yet somehow in your mind, Murray left you 'potless'. You wriggle more than a politician. I think you are being silly now to justify your evident hero worship of the man. Let me clarify, as your attitude is actually quite disrespectful to all of our small shareholders from that time, not just to me. 1. My shares were worth a token amount. 2. Murray led a Board which royally rogered CAFC through mismanagement & bad decision making for six years. 3. My shares are now worth nothing. Got it Here you go again, anyone querying your reasoning, therefore has to hero worship Murray. Nowhere have I said that, all I've done is asked you how he's made you potless, when you spent not one penny on purchasing shares. As a small shareholder myself - one who purchased shares on all three occaisions they were offered, to support my Club and certainly not look to making a profit, I find your 'potless' comment the disrespectful one. So your points 1. and 3. are irrelevant. I'm not going to disagree with your point 2. but the bottom line is the man is still there and he's still putting his hand in his pocket to keep the Club going.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 19:57:31 GMT
Ted
Typical arrogance. You didn't mind writing off your three lots of shares...lucky you...others might not have felt so charitable.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 20:02:07 GMT
Yanks are over here on Thursday I can clarify that 100% but My contact tells me they are after another London club so all talks I think will be focused on that move than us im afraid!
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