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Post by reddyfreddy on Sept 22, 2009 18:40:32 GMT
Reams, where do you get the feeling that £3m is part of the £7m invested? The OB states "that seven directors have agreed to invest a total of £7m in the club" if as you infer this in only £4m, why does it state invest £7m? and what am I missing? I was going to ask Reams the same question because I couldn't get my head around either what he was talking about. The fact that players might be sold for £3m let's say, doesn't mean the club get paid £3m straightaway. Payment terms are usually spread over 1-2 years after an initial lumpsum downpayment. This £3m or any other projected income has nothing to do with with the £7m the directors have gone on the line for...is my understanding! I don't think you're missing anything Vv.
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 22, 2009 19:37:08 GMT
reddyfreddy Cardiff bought Hudson to replace Johnson so if we have allowed them to pay for him in instalments after they got a few million for their player then who are the fools?
Anyway after all this time the question I want answering is why the transfer embargo, why the delay in allowing PP to bring players in and why when he did were they the likes of McKenzie.
The new board have contradicted themselves in saying that they want an immediate return to the CCC, then as a way of showing it give PP nothing. He's needed money for players all along but got told there isn't any then all of a sudden £7m appears once the window is shut.
I'll say it again it might be a drop in the ocean up against our total debt but where has the Hudson and Gray money gone, it's not such an outrageous question to ask is it ?
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Post by leedsaddick on Sept 22, 2009 21:34:40 GMT
I've enjoyed reading this thread.... being an exiled addick in Leeds, these threads are really insightfull. Having watched the addicks since the late 60's, I think this is a positve step and I live the fact that people at Board level like Alwen etc have been recognised even if the titles are little bit mickey mouse.... the point I want to make is, would rather us be where we are today, or in a position where Palarse are..... skint with a chairman who wants to sell, and ego that makes Pardew seem balanced, a ban on buying players, and a manager who is universally hated by 91 professional football clubs in the UK.... the other thing to bear in mind is that organisations evolve, it happens to all major businesses and football clubs.. the announcement isn't the end, there'll be something else that will come along.... unfortunately, I don't know when.....
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Post by reddyfreddy on Sept 23, 2009 8:24:57 GMT
reddyfreddy Cardiff bought Hudson to replace Johnson so if we have allowed them to pay for him in instalments after they got a few million for their player then who are the fools? Anyway after all this time the question I want answering is why the transfer embargo, why the delay in allowing PP to bring players in and why when he did were they the likes of McKenzie. The new board have contradicted themselves in saying that they want an immediate return to the CCC, then as a way of showing it give PP nothing. He's needed money for players all along but got told there isn't any then all of a sudden £7m appears once the window is shut. I'll say it again it might be a drop in the ocean up against our total debt but where has the Hudson and Gray money gone, it's not such an outrageous question to ask is it ? It's irrelevant what Cardiif got for Johnson. Few deals are cash upfront. Perhaps CAFC negotiated a larger downpayment because of this or for example even got the lot upfront by accepting a price 25% cheaper...who knows? What I am saying is that transfer fees are generally paid over a period of time that's why Palarse are embargoed because they've missed instalments. We are not embargoed by the F.A. as Palarse are...we have a self imposed embargo. You can assume that will change with the board now deciding to forge ahead.
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optimist
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Post by optimist on Sept 23, 2009 8:28:20 GMT
It certainly isn't an outrageous question Reams, but as with many things we'll never get the answers, officially... For us mere fans, the figures never add up, anyway!
Taking Reddys point about not having the fees in the bank is a fair one, but spreading payment for players, etc could equally apply to us if we were buying, surely?…I think this is all irrelevant anyway, with the sums we’re talking about here… The friendly debt is still there, and no matter what spin they put on it, is now greater…
I can’t see what they can spend? Parky has had the grand sum of £0.00 to spend on players since he started the job... If he’s lucky he’ll get a little money than that in January, but there’s nothing about this latest reshuffle to suggest he will…
I see this news as nothing more than the board protecting their investment, because their number one priority is still to sell the club….
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Post by reddyfreddy on Sept 23, 2009 9:34:10 GMT
It certainly isn't an outrageous question Reams, but as with many things we'll never get the answers, officially... For us mere fans, the figures never add up, anyway! Taking Reddys point about not having the fees in the bank is a fair one, but spreading payment for players, etc could equally apply to us if we were buying, surely?…I think this is all irrelevant anyway, with the sums we’re talking about here… The friendly debt is still there, and no matter what spin they put on it, is now greater… I can’t see what they can spend? Parky has had the grand sum of £0.00 to spend on players since he started the job... If he’s lucky he’ll get a little money than that in January, but there’s nothing about this latest reshuffle to suggest he will… I see this news as nothing more than the board protecting their investment, because their number one priority is still to sell the club…. "I see this news as nothing more than the board protecting their investment, because their number one priority is still to sell the club…." Don't disagree with that at all. They'd better hope then that someone finds the idea of paying off their existing "friendly debt" plus further tranches from hereon is attractive. Unlikely though! This is a "reality check" investment!! If they fail to back the team the "false economy" of this will blow-up in their face. Another season in Div One and it's curtains!! For now they've backed the club with their money. They have to strengthen. Period!!
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optimist
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Post by optimist on Sept 23, 2009 10:28:42 GMT
“They have to strengthen”…
We would hope so but if we get anything like the last two signings, no disrespect about the signings, I don’t know the players, but they haven’t been good enough go straight into the squad, let alone team…
The board maybe dipping into the well one last time, in the hope that they achieve their priority, but I don’t see this investment even in the short term helping the playing side much … It still leaves us in a very fragile position, regarding the keeping and buying of players…
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Post by bingaddick on Sept 23, 2009 22:08:31 GMT
It has been mentioned elsewhere today that one of the groups who came back in were Zabeel but they felt they couldn't justify buying us in the third tier. They are however still very interested in us if we get promoted. If we do and they are happy with the progress they will blow all other bidders out of the water.
I have no idea if this is true but it would explain why directors who were apparently cash potless a few months ago, have found some more money. Also somebody else pointed out that share values have been rising significantly in recent months so the net worth of some of our board will have increased significantly giving them the cash to invest.
My guess is that there is probably a ring of truth in all this. If it wasn't Zabeel who came back in, it was probably some other investors from that part of the world.
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 23, 2009 22:25:11 GMT
So it appears that I have been spot on all along with my feed backs on here and you confirming that one of the Parties were indeed Zabeel confirms everything that my informers have been telling me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2009 22:38:18 GMT
bingaddick, you been talking to Bexley !! lol
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Post by reamsofverse on Sept 23, 2009 22:55:02 GMT
Nail absolutely on the head optimist.
From what I can make out the £7m will provide running costs for the club until the end of the season, however what the fcuking hell are we playing at by needing that amount of money in the first place?? who else in the didvision needs £7m to get them by?
Im amazed how some fans see this as good news I really am because all this is is a bit of cheap brand pollyfilla being used to fill cracks that need cement. The new board could have accepted a price for the club but didn't because the going rate for a third dtier club was not to their liking so instead they have taken a £7m gamble on us going up so that they can get the right price if we do then what they'll do is add this £7m on top.
Some gamble I have to say because for us to go up PP will have to play the same 11 for all 46 games, nobody else is good enough so the message is simple bring in 4 players and we might just have a chance, without them their £7m will go floating off down the Thames.
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optimist
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Post by optimist on Sept 23, 2009 23:26:55 GMT
YES!!! The Z word…… Now this is something to get excited about.. ;D Well at least hope... I’ve always believed people with real money would see our great potential one day… I wasn't surprised with the last approach by them, and wouldn't be surprised if they came back.... So is another worldwide financial collapse going to put the mockers on it again? My optimism remains… Bing, Please keep us posted mate…
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optimist
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Post by optimist on Sept 23, 2009 23:35:46 GMT
Cheers Reams, I’m with you on this one… To say I’m a tad under whelmed by this news is putting it mildly… But, Bing has cheered me up no end… I have my hope back… ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2009 8:26:12 GMT
lets stop and think , Birmingham get taken over, so do Notts Co and Man City , does that mean that CAFC's accounts / debt is worse than the above ? for a club that was used as the 'model' to follow, are we now taking on the guise of Portsmouth ?
I see the 7 mill as a get out of jail free card, keeps us ticking over and in business till nea year / end of this season , if we get promoted then maybe we will see some intrest again ??
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optimist
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Post by optimist on Sept 24, 2009 9:38:34 GMT
lets stop and think , Birmingham get taken over, so do Notts Co and Man City , does that mean that CAFC's accounts / debt is worse than the above ? I don't see why the debt figures would even come into play if we could attract the type of buyers Man City got, ….To these guys, our debt is the kind of money you & I stick in our ashtray.... The potential it gives them, is what they look for… Perhaps they understand the value of branding, and are using football clubs as a vehicle for that…. The reality is, they wouldn’t get involved if they couldn’t see greater gain for themselves, and all their numerous business concerns…
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2009 10:01:51 GMT
very true opo, i'm all for selling our soul to the devil if it means decent football again !
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Post by bingaddick on Sept 24, 2009 12:43:12 GMT
bingaddick, you been talking to Bexley !! lol No. I heard somewhile ago that some middle eastern businessmen were involved. Chris Kamara mentioned on Sky at one point that Zabeel were back in. I have wondered for some time why, with so protracted a process, nothing had been finalised. It seemed to me that if the board were potless, they would have sold out by now. (I never believed they were totally potless, just cashless). I also accepted that Murray is bona fide in saying that they are acting in the best interests of the club and would write off their investment if they had to, to secure the clubs future. (There is a question mark about the soft loans.) So, given the fact that the club is running beyond it's means, and they apparently have no easily accessible money, why haven't they sold? Well I come to things I have posted earlier, i.e that the best interest for the club may also be in their best interest as well, namely holding out for some seriously rich bidder to step in. It seems if the information is correct, that Zabeel (or people connected with them) are still interested in the club, but the time is not right for them, i.e, they need to see the club at the next level, stable and challenging and they will come in, make a serious bid (like before). If you add that because of improvements in stock prices, the Directors net worths have risen significatly recently and shares can easily be encashed, I think they have concluded that the best thing is to keep the club going on the current playing strength (with some money available for emergencies to freshen things up),with the hope that they can deliver the club to the next level. If I go back then to the position taken by me (and some others) that this investment, whilst not spectacular, is welcome. That it keeps the club in the game for maybe some serious investors to come back in, the whole thing hangs togther for me. These guys are taking an additional risk with their own money to try and secure the the clubs future and their investment and we shouldn't be too critical. The alternative would either have been, selling players and other assets to stave off administration in the short term, or selling out to new investors who may not have the deepest pockets and who would not be able to put in the serious investment that Optimist, myself and others recognise is needed to re-establish and keep the club in the big time.
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Post by reddyfreddy on Sept 24, 2009 13:32:55 GMT
I'm beginning to suspect that the Magnificent Seven have in principle already got the buyer in place and even probably done the deal to sell based on the club being in the CCC next season.
The retention of the training ground is I think a clue to this. It could very well have been a strict preference of Zabeel or the buyer who they have in place. They've had to raise the £7m to get across this season so not to increase general creditors position. This assurance of a deal perhaps lead to the confidence of the seven to invest further thus the sudden appearance of the commitment of £7m.
Yes it's a gamble but it's a total £30m + £7m gamble (or whatever the total loans are owed to these guys). Perhaps they've been GUARANTEED a sizable whack back from the £30m plus 100% from any extra tranches hereon...so the extra £7m is a calculated risk.
It's feasible to keep all this under wraps and exclusive to a seven man board (who are the pertinent parties) instead of to 23 or however many it was?
Make sense??? No? Shoot me?
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Post by bingaddick on Sept 24, 2009 16:43:47 GMT
Hmm, it's quite a compelling theory RF. It may not be laid down in tablets of stone but some kind of understanding is pretty likely.
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Post by reddyfreddy on Sept 25, 2009 7:58:59 GMT
Hmm, it's quite a compelling theory RF. It may not be laid down in tablets of stone but some kind of understanding is pretty likely. For arguments sake let's say Zabeel had said they were re-interested (given the slow recovery in their own portfolio of global investments). However CCC status is a minimum requirement! The CAFC board and in particular those with major loans are faced with with the option let's say of a) selling NOW to a consortium without their needing to provide further funding but writing-off their substantial loans or b) going with a "Zabeel" who are legally binding assuring them of -repayment of a major proportion of existing loans, -full or substantial repayment of any further ongoing loans -and those making such loans to remain as directors, -but on condition that no other debts are accrued and the club is in the CCC Let's also say that is a LEGALLY BINDING firm option and that the board also have the freedom to seek a better offer should one come along...hence their comment (or smokescreen) that they are seeking investors. So the Magnificent Seven have transpired/evolved as a result that no other directors were capable or wanted to match the conditions of providing ongoing working capital. "Put-up or shut-up" is the phrase that perhaps rather harshly could apply. Simply if the gamble doesn't pay-off and the club doesn't achieve CCC status in one hit then the deal collapses. Consequently any other director WITHOUT any previous existing loan who might be considering injecting a proportion of ongoing capital, (that's driving the interest of the Magnificent Seven in my scenario to take the gamble) would then be a very small fish in a rather large pond! This is going to dissuade anyone with an ounce of intelligence so the downsizing of the board was absolute! On the other hand there might not be a "Zabeely" around at all and I've just wasted 10 minutes typing this load of bollox
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optimist
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Post by optimist on Sept 25, 2009 9:59:52 GMT
Lol… Hope it’s not Bollox Reddy, because I like this type of scenario, and I also believe something along these lines is very much on…. The Zabeel name has cropped up, OK so have hundreds of others, but the fact they’ve already shown interest, makes this one very possible … Also Chris Kamara mentioning this on his show.. Why? Unlikely to say something like this without some good info… Some information has to have filtered through inside the game, especially when the likes of Ian Darke during his Brentford commentary, told us that “buyers had come in for the club, but have now gone“… Us fans didn‘t really know that back then! Without any real official facts about what’s happened all summer, like who the buyers were, what they offered, their intentions, the clubs intentions, etc, I’m sure there’ll be more people wondering whether what they’re assuming and writing up, is a load of Bollox or not? Guessing what's going to happen with CAFC has always been part of the fun of supporting the ‘Addicks… It’s never always been successful, but it’s always been eventful…
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