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Post by Occam’s Razor on Jan 2, 2024 11:48:20 GMT
Interesting that Birmingham City’s wealthy US backers pulled the plug on Wayne Rooney after only 15 games in charge.
Two big differences to SE7 Partners & CAFC.
The Birmingham owners are ambitious, and are clearly not willing to take any shit, no matter how big the name.
The Birmingham support was vitriolic against Rooney, including at the Leeds defeat.
Quelle contrast to “let’s give it xxxx more windows” ……
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Post by charltonforlife on Jan 2, 2024 12:08:22 GMT
Not if you find the right manager. A football team is like a car it will be limited by who drives it also Alfie out wide is right up there with the most bizarre decisions I have ever seen. Alfie is no good in a wide right 4-3–3. My 12 year old son sees and understands this. Appleton should go 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. A 4-3-3 is the worst formation we could play with the personnel we have. This is strikingly obvious to anyone and everyone and if we have a manager who cannot see this then quite frankly he shouldn’t managing. Go get Michael Duff he will turn this club around.
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Post by earlpurple on Jan 2, 2024 12:34:15 GMT
John Eustace would be my choice. Worked well at Kidderminster as well as Birmingham in his short time so can work in lower leagues and in the Championship if we get promoted there.
Let him have a lot more say too, i.e. do things his way not force him to do things Scott's way..
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Post by bigandy99 on Jan 2, 2024 12:35:53 GMT
I always find it odd when a manager/coach is supposed to have a UEFA badge of some kind to do the job and can’t see the obvious in front of them when supporters can?..
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Post by se7sm on Jan 2, 2024 12:53:57 GMT
I always find it odd when a manager/coach is supposed to have a UEFA badge of some kind to do the job and can’t see the obvious in front of them when supporters can?.. I wondered where the saying educated idiots comes from |
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Post by mersthamred on Jan 2, 2024 13:10:45 GMT
I wonder how many fans could name all the managers since AC?
I'd stick with Appleton if we can strengthen the defence and put Alfie up front and think again at the end of another dead season.
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Post by massivebeak on Jan 2, 2024 13:36:31 GMT
I don't rate Appleton and don't think he's up to the job, but I can't not see the 'Groundhog day' effect.... we are clearly in a toxic spiral of bad ownership and bad management. We can't just keep appointing mediocre managers and blaming them for everything then sacking them. The problem goes much deeper.
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Post by Occam’s Razor on Jan 2, 2024 13:41:16 GMT
I wonder how many fans could name all the managers since AC? I'd stick with Appleton if we can strengthen the defence and put Alfie up front and think again at the end of another dead season. Dowie Reed Pardew Parkinson Powell Peeters Riga (twice) Slade Fraeye Robinson Bowyer Adkins Jackson Garner Holden Appleton That’s 17 managerial appointments in 17 seasons |
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Post by eric on Jan 2, 2024 13:48:35 GMT
I wonder how many fans could name all the managers since AC? I'd stick with Appleton if we can strengthen the defence and put Alfie up front and think again at the end of another dead season. Dowie Reed Pardew Parkinson Powell Peeters Riga (twice) Slade Fraeye Robinson Bowyer Adkins Jackson Garner Holden Appleton That’s 17 managerial appointments in 17 seasons How could you leave out the great Guy Luzon . To be fair I remember his Mrs more than him . |
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Post by massivebeak on Jan 2, 2024 13:52:33 GMT
I wonder how many fans could name all the managers since AC? I'd stick with Appleton if we can strengthen the defence and put Alfie up front and think again at the end of another dead season. Dowie Reed Pardew Parkinson Powell Peeters Riga (twice) Slade Fraeye Robinson Bowyer Adkins Jackson Garner Holden Appleton That’s 17 managerial appointments in 17 seasons My god there is some dross there. |
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Post by tonaddick on Jan 2, 2024 14:08:41 GMT
Interesting that Birmingham City’s wealthy US backers pulled the plug on Wayne Rooney after only 15 games in charge. Two big differences to SE7 Partners & CAFC. The Birmingham owners are ambitious, and are clearly not willing to take any shit, no matter how big the name. The Birmingham support was vitriolic against Rooney, including at the Leeds defeat. Quelle contrast to “let’s give it xxxx more windows” …… Hopefully the Birmingham owners will learn a lesson from this. Replacing someone competent, when you're sixth in the league, with a big name doesn't always come off. Can't help but suggest this was a problem of their own making. Edit to add - I'd happily have Eustace as manager if that is what you were suggesting. |
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Post by reamsofverse on Jan 2, 2024 14:38:01 GMT
John Eustace would be my choice. Worked well at Kidderminster as well as Birmingham in his short time so can work in lower leagues and in the Championship if we get promoted there. Let him have a lot more say too, i.e. do things his way not force him to do things Scott's way.. Gary Rowatt for me. |
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Post by manikin on Jan 2, 2024 15:15:57 GMT
John Eustace would be my choice. Worked well at Kidderminster as well as Birmingham in his short time so can work in lower leagues and in the Championship if we get promoted there. Let him have a lot more say too, i.e. do things his way not force him to do things Scott's way.. Gary Rowatt for me. This is the standard we should be looking at. |
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stu2020
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Post by stu2020 on Jan 2, 2024 15:29:07 GMT
Without serious funds it’s irrelevant… we need investment
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Post by essexaddick on Jan 2, 2024 16:46:23 GMT
Dowie Reed Pardew Parkinson Powell Peeters Riga (twice) Slade Fraeye Robinson Bowyer Adkins Jackson Garner Holden Appleton That’s 17 managerial appointments in 17 seasons How could you leave out the great Guy Luzon . To be fair I remember his Mrs more than him . Absolutely, a stunner. |
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Post by somerton on Jan 2, 2024 17:00:09 GMT
So 18 managerial appointments in 17 seasons, and where has it got us.
There must be a common factor for the failure of these appointments to get us into the championship and stay there, I suggest this the ownership of the club and to be specific the lack of wealth to invest in the team and club, or one case the unwillingness to do so.
Under those conditions you could have Ferguson senior as manager and he would fail.
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crapgame
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Post by crapgame on Jan 2, 2024 17:39:58 GMT
Any organisation, company and Institution that is under-performing, failing, under-achieving, non-productive, call it what you will is nearly always as a result of poor leadership from the top. All those 'bad' managerial appointments, poor player recruitment etc is down to a lack of judgement and a lack of professional/competent management/leadership 'culture' within that organisation. The reason we have an under-performing club/1st team is not actually MA's fault, its a succession of dopey owners who did not invest in suitable 'football' strategies and competent management personnel. We all pointed at the Dane's lack of professional football appointments and were pleased with the new owners proposed strategies and direction, however player recruitment has not been good so far. Lets hope this window is the start of some positive news and I think we could do with 'supporting' our team a bit more instead of heckling them. I've never booed my team, 'NEVER', its counter productive and I reserve my pantomine booing for opposition players and managers, nor 'OURS'!
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Post by yorkshireaddick on Jan 2, 2024 17:52:28 GMT
Was always a terrible appointment. And the worst thing... I can't see us getting anyone better in given where we are currently.
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Post by melrose555 on Jan 2, 2024 19:02:21 GMT
Was always a terrible appointment. And the worst thing... I can't see us getting anyone better in given where we are currently. Well we definitely can't get anyone worse. No tactical nous, stubborn, not a motivator, no rapport with players or fans. Why oh why was he appointed? Low ££ 😀 |
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Post by aaronaldo on Jan 2, 2024 19:03:40 GMT
Adkins doing pretty well at Tranmere…
Our squad needs to be the focus. I don’t think whoever manages us will change much until we fix that.
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Post by norfolkrobin on Jan 2, 2024 19:38:39 GMT
John Eustace would be my choice. Worked well at Kidderminster as well as Birmingham in his short time so can work in lower leagues and in the Championship if we get promoted there. Let him have a lot more say too, i.e. do things his way not force him to do things Scott's way.. Gary Rowatt for me. Organisation and Grit. Would be happy with Rowett,would LOVE to up our levels of being streetwise and shithousery. Being Chronic soft touches is getting us Nowhere fast. |
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Post by jonkool on Jan 2, 2024 22:21:00 GMT
John Eustace would be my choice. Worked well at Kidderminster as well as Birmingham in his short time so can work in lower leagues and in the Championship if we get promoted there. Let him have a lot more say too, i.e. do things his way not force him to do things Scott's way.. Gary Rowatt for me. Every time I hear Curbs talking about organising the team (particularly defensively) I see Rowatt who has clearly shown that he fully appreciates the need to set up the team properly as his natural successor. Out of all the post Curbs managers Bows has been the gaffer exhibiting Curbs like qualities and to my mind Rowatt is a better man manager than Bows. As well as his organisational skills he understands the need of recruiting players who hate losing … now that’s a funny old thing! |
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Post by tidyjensen on Jan 2, 2024 22:24:20 GMT
Every time I hear Curbs talking about organising the team particularly defensively I see Rowatt who has clearly shown that he fully appreciates the need to set up the team properly as the natural successor. Out of all the post Curbs managers Bows has been the gaffer exhibiting Curbs like qualities and to my mind Rowatt is a better man manager than Bows. As well as his organisational skills he understands the need of recruiting players who hate losing … now that’s a funny old thing! Rowett would probably come as well despite all the craziness, trouble is I can't see this board sacking Apples they won't pay it. |
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Post by norfolkrobin on Jan 2, 2024 22:35:25 GMT
Every time I hear Curbs talking about organising the team particularly defensively I see Rowatt who has clearly shown that he fully appreciates the need to set up the team properly as the natural successor. Out of all the post Curbs managers Bows has been the gaffer exhibiting Curbs like qualities and to my mind Rowatt is a better man manager than Bows. As well as his organisational skills he understands the need of recruiting players who hate losing … now that’s a funny old thing! Rowett would probably come as well despite all the craziness, trouble is I can't see this board sacking Apples they won't pay it. If we had any real chance of getting him then we'd be daft not to ask the question. I'm obviously biased in thinking we could be seen as an attractive challenge. |
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Post by norfolkrobin on Jan 2, 2024 22:41:57 GMT
Every time I hear Curbs talking about organising the team (particularly defensively) I see Rowatt who has clearly shown that he fully appreciates the need to set up the team properly as his natural successor. Out of all the post Curbs managers Bows has been the gaffer exhibiting Curbs like qualities and to my mind Rowatt is a better man manager than Bows. As well as his organisational skills he understands the need of recruiting players who hate losing … now that’s a funny old thing! I'm not saying our lot don't try,they clearly do. But this flakey mentality and conceding late in games is something that needs SERIOUS attention,football has many factors,luck being a big one. But IF you'd been stung by late winners,and surrendered leads like we do on an almost regular basis,I know I'd do EVERYTHING in my power to not let it happen again. |
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Post by AndyAddick on Jan 3, 2024 11:07:23 GMT
Dowie Reed Pardew Parkinson Powell Peeters Riga (twice) Slade Fraeye Robinson Bowyer Adkins Jackson Garner Holden Appleton That’s 17 managerial appointments in 17 seasons How could you leave out the great Guy Luzon . To be fair I remember his Mrs more than him . Hes still in the game ! Guy Luzon is an Israeli former footballer and manager, currently managing the Israel national under-21 football team |
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Post by newyorkaddick on Jan 3, 2024 11:09:27 GMT
Not if you find the right manager. A football team is like a car it will be limited by who drives it also Alfie out wide is right up there with the most bizarre decisions I have ever seen. Alfie is no good in a wide right 4-3–3. My 12 year old son sees and understands this. Appleton should go 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. A 4-3-3 is the worst formation we could play with the personnel we have. This is strikingly obvious to anyone and everyone and if we have a manager who cannot see this then quite frankly he shouldn’t managing. Go get Michael Duff he will turn this club around. One of the reasons that reportedly got Holden sacked was playing 3-5-2 (pairing May with young Kanu) in his final two games when instructed by the SMT to play 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1). Who knows what would've happened had he been given more time to pursue that formation once Aneke, Leaburn and Tedic became available? Admittedly it doesn't solve the problem of where you play CBT in that formation, a clear square peg in a round hole..... |
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Post by AndyAddick on Jan 3, 2024 11:55:26 GMT
Not if you find the right manager. A football team is like a car it will be limited by who drives it also Alfie out wide is right up there with the most bizarre decisions I have ever seen. Alfie is no good in a wide right 4-3–3. My 12 year old son sees and understands this. Appleton should go 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. A 4-3-3 is the worst formation we could play with the personnel we have. This is strikingly obvious to anyone and everyone and if we have a manager who cannot see this then quite frankly he shouldn’t managing. Go get Michael Duff he will turn this club around. One of the reasons that reportedly got Holden sacked was playing 3-5-2 (pairing May with young Kanu) in his final two games when instructed by the SMT to play 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1). Who knows what would've happened had he been given more time to pursue that formation once Aneke, Leaburn and Tedic became available? Admittedly it doesn't solve the problem of where you play CBT in that formation, a clear square peg in a round hole..... I really dont get this approach , what's the point of a 'manager' other than a fall guy or there for talking training, if the SMT are picking the side / formation / recruiting players ? If this has been the approach it clearly is NOT working the league table dont lie, |
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Post by kings hill addick on Jan 3, 2024 12:14:13 GMT
One of the reasons that reportedly got Holden sacked was playing 3-5-2 (pairing May with young Kanu) in his final two games when instructed by the SMT to play 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1). Who knows what would've happened had he been given more time to pursue that formation once Aneke, Leaburn and Tedic became available? Admittedly it doesn't solve the problem of where you play CBT in that formation, a clear square peg in a round hole..... I really dont get this approach , what's the point of a 'manager' other than a fall guy or there for talking training, if the SMT are picking the side / formation / recruiting players ? If this has been the approach it clearly is NOT working the league table dont lie, I think the idea, and I'm not saying that it is the best approach, is that if the set up is not totally dependent on each Manager (or Coach) it makes for a seamless transition when the Manager/Coach is changed. I remember Richard Murray insisting on this when Curbishley left with a chap called Andrew Mills, if I remember correctly. The total disaster after Curbishley left could be due to the new approach, but it could be because the club were too reliant on just one man. I suspect we will never know the answer to that. It was all changed at the request of Alan Pardew, but let's face it, that didn't, exactly, go according to plan either. |
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Post by Mundell on Jan 3, 2024 14:47:16 GMT
Not if you find the right manager. A football team is like a car it will be limited by who drives it also Alfie out wide is right up there with the most bizarre decisions I have ever seen. Alfie is no good in a wide right 4-3–3. My 12 year old son sees and understands this. Appleton should go 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1. A 4-3-3 is the worst formation we could play with the personnel we have. This is strikingly obvious to anyone and everyone and if we have a manager who cannot see this then quite frankly he shouldn’t managing. Go get Michael Duff he will turn this club around. One of the reasons that reportedly got Holden sacked was playing 3-5-2 (pairing May with young Kanu) in his final two games when instructed by the SMT to play 4-3-3 (or 4-5-1). Who knows what would've happened had he been given more time to pursue that formation once Aneke, Leaburn and Tedic became available? Admittedly it doesn't solve the problem of where you play CBT in that formation, a clear square peg in a round hole..... My sense is that there’s definitely something in what you say newyorkaddick but I think there might be an important nuance in what you’ve said which is worth highlighting. I don’t believe that Holden was sacked for playing 3-5-2 per se, but rather he lost the confidence of Andy Scott and others because having agreed to recruit for a 4-3-3 system he suddenly decided to adopt a 3-5-2 set up despite not having the wing backs needed to play it and the Blackett Taylor conundrum it created. As I’ve remarked previously, the objective of having a Technical Director is not to tell the Head Coach what to do. Instead, the idea is that the two work in partnership with each specialising in their own area of direct responsibility. When that partnership breaks down for one reason or another the Head Coach is likely to be the one to go. If this is indeed the high level picture then it begins to expose some of what’s gone wrong. We all agree that our recruitment hasn’t been good enough based on the match effectiveness of the individual players signed, but arguably the bigger problem is that we’ve failed to build a squad with a coherent game plan or shape in mind. Just a few examples. First, for all the noise about Alfie May being played on the right of the front three (as a nominal 7), the fact is he’s not a 9. A Lyle Taylor type (not that I’d want him anywhere near the club) would suit the system much better. Entirely counterintuitively, the signing of May might well have been an error and where it all began to go wrong for Holden. Second, again counterintuitively, while Blackett Taylor is our most dangerous player he doesn’t fit the system either and his heat map shows just how much space he leaves behind him. It’s a real paradox that these two “misfits” are two of our best players and obviously undroppable. Third, playing with a pivot (rather than a flat middle three), which suits George Dobson given his limitations going forward, also has profound implications given the personnel available (including Dobson) and helps to explain much of our vulnerability defensively and lack of creativity offensively. Two or three quality additions in the front six might completely transform it, even if we lost some of the players currently seen as our most effective. Scott and Appleton need to be brave in this window. It’s not just about recruiting warm bodies who the club’s fans have heard of. Much more importantly, it’s about signing players who will improve the structure of the First XI and get the best out of our “support players” who will play around them. That’s not going to be easy. |
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