|
Post by revilo on Oct 14, 2019 19:39:58 GMT
England currently 4 up but the main talking point is the fact the match has been stopped twice due to racial abuse from the Bulgarian fans. Disgusting.
|
|
|
Post by oldred on Oct 14, 2019 19:50:36 GMT
It’s unbelievable that racism is still such an issue in football these days. There can be few teams these days that don’t have black players. Bulgaria as a country are so far behind the times.
|
|
|
Post by jonkool on Oct 14, 2019 19:59:01 GMT
It’s unbelievable that racism is still such an issue in football these days. There can be few teams these days that don’t have black players. Bulgaria as a country are so far behind the times. Sadly the hard core who were asked to leave the stadium were young and covered with nationalist tattoos and the obligatory hoodie. They’re not interested in education 🥴
|
|
|
Post by wellingaddick on Oct 14, 2019 20:20:45 GMT
It’s unbelievable that racism is still such an issue in football these days. There can be few teams these days that don’t have black players. Bulgaria as a country are so far behind the times. Sadly the hard core who were asked to leave the stadium were young and covered with nationalist tattoos and the obligatory hoodie. They’re not interested in education 🥴 When you see specially made t-shirts and hoodies, along with the gestures and racist chanting, it is clear these people have no interest in joining the 21st century, let alone be educated. Bulgaria have to be banned from all EUFA competition and for a considerable time.
|
|
|
Post by AndyB on Oct 14, 2019 20:52:42 GMT
I’d allow their team to play but ban all their fans - disgusting behaviour
|
|
|
Post by bigandy99 on Oct 14, 2019 22:12:03 GMT
Throw them out of the next 2 competitions for Country and Champions & Europa Leagues.. the clubs will not want to lose the income so hit them where it hurts.. maybe these uneducated people never leave Bulgaria to understand what a mixed society is?..
|
|
|
Post by roburwash on Oct 15, 2019 12:15:00 GMT
Don't kid yourselves that there aren't plenty of boneheads like this in the UK too.
|
|
|
Post by lukepiestalker on Oct 15, 2019 12:22:29 GMT
The only way they will learn is to ban the country from the competition.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 12:26:02 GMT
Judging other cultures by our own standards is seldom helpful. Eastern Europe and the UK have had almost nothing in common for maybe a century now. Their experience, expecially since WW2, has been very different from ours.
Perhaps we as a nation should decide whether we still want sporting ties with other countries where racism and religious / gender based intolerance is far worse than we now regard as acceptable here.
In three years' time the World Cup Finals will be held in a country where it is currently illegal to be gay or transgender, and practically illegal to be a Jew. Additional to which, women are clearly not treated with anything like equality to men in the eyes of the law. I doubt very much whether those things will change between now and 2022.
Will the England football team be travelling to Qatar to participate? Qualifiers allowing, I expect so.
|
|
|
Post by aaronaldo on Oct 15, 2019 12:38:40 GMT
Don't kid yourselves that there aren't plenty of boneheads like this in the UK too. Exactly. It’s happens in the English game, albeit hopefully to a far lesser extent. Everyone needs to work together on the issue.
|
|
|
Post by kings hill addick on Oct 15, 2019 16:20:08 GMT
I was under the impression that the team were going to walk off if there was racial abuse.
If they had done so - especially 4-0 in front, that would have made a massive statement. Sadly it will not be remembered as we managed to win 6-0.
Just shows how seriously it is being taken, or not, as the case might be.
If one is going to make threats one has to follow through on them, otherwise it is difficult for anyone to take their threats seriously the next time.
|
|
|
Post by jonkool on Oct 16, 2019 19:51:42 GMT
Don't kid yourselves that there aren't plenty of boneheads like this in the UK too. Yes we are seeing a rise in right wing (and left wing) nationalism and populism as we did in the 1930s - it doesn’t bode well and unlikely to end well!
|
|
|
Post by roburwash on Oct 18, 2019 11:06:40 GMT
Don't kid yourselves that there aren't plenty of boneheads like this in the UK too. Yes we are seeing a rise in right wing (and left wing) nationalism and populism as we did in the 1930s - it doesn’t bode well and unlikely to end well! It's scary stuff, isn't it? I was listening to a woman recounting her experiences of neighbours turning against neighbours in Bosnia and, for the first time ever, I saw how it could even happen here. There's so much hatred and anger around. I know it's not fashionable to say it, but I even dislike hearing the kind of abuse to other fans and players that you hear at The Valley. People laugh it off as 'banter' but I'm not so sure. I think it sets up a mindset about 'the other' that could, in the right circumstances, grow into something really ugly and dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by canterburyaddick on Oct 18, 2019 12:20:56 GMT
Yes we are seeing a rise in right wing (and left wing) nationalism and populism as we did in the 1930s - it doesn’t bode well and unlikely to end well! It's scary stuff, isn't it? I was listening to a woman recounting her experiences of neighbours turning against neighbours in Bosnia and, for the first time ever, I saw how it could even happen here. There's so much hatred and anger around. I know it's not fashionable to say it, but I even dislike hearing the kind of abuse to other fans and players that you hear at The Valley. People laugh it off as 'banter' but I'm not so sure. I think it sets up a mindset about 'the other' that could, in the right circumstances, grow into something really ugly and dangerous. Sobering thoughts guys.
|
|
|
Post by Mundell on Oct 18, 2019 12:45:41 GMT
Yes we are seeing a rise in right wing (and left wing) nationalism and populism as we did in the 1930s - it doesn’t bode well and unlikely to end well! It's scary stuff, isn't it? I was listening to a woman recounting her experiences of neighbours turning against neighbours in Bosnia and, for the first time ever, I saw how it could even happen here. There's so much hatred and anger around. I know it's not fashionable to say it, but I even dislike hearing the kind of abuse to other fans and players that you hear at The Valley. People laugh it off as 'banter' but I'm not so sure. I think it sets up a mindset about 'the other' that could, in the right circumstances, grow into something really ugly and dangerous. I agree with this. Respect for others, tolerance and understanding is critical. We also need to think very carefully when we apply 'our standards' to others, without understanding, while at the same time failing to show respect for other cultures. The blatant racism at England's game in Bulgaria was shocking and unacceptable. My brother lives in Slovakia and he was stunned and appalled by what he witnessed at a recent game between Slovan Bratislava and Spartak Trnava. However, there is a 'however'. Slovak society is very different to the one we live in. There are very few people of Afro-Caribbean ethnicity, but much conflict with Romani peoples who suffer serious discrimination. In turn, Slovaks view the Roma as a 'problem', just as some bigoted people in the UK might view Gypsies. That background does not excuse the disgraceful racism my brother witnessed nor suggest it doesn't need to be addressed. It simply says we should seek to understand before we condemn unilaterally. Its not politically correct to say it, but while racist chanting in Sofia was always likely, the media focus on it in the run up to the game probably made it inevitable, especially once it became clear England were going to win the game. Our 'approach' to the game was seen as insulting and disrespectful and may well have sparked some of the organised and orchestrated scenes we witnessed. Behind the scenes pressure on the Bulgarian authorities, from both the FA and UEFA, combined with a much lower key public profile might have been more effective, both on the night and in the long-term. That's not to criticise our players or Gareth Southgate. They did the right thing. The question is whether it helped to publicise it all so openly in the run up to the game? The morons guilty of such disgraceful behaviour are probably not that different to 'our own morons', but they live in a different society which is in a different 'place' and today has different values. In the meantime, I note that there has been very little comment in our media about the fact that the FA has also been sanctioned because 'our fans' booed the Bulgarian national anthem. That's disgraceful too, in my view, and is hardly conducive to our taking the 'moral high ground' on what is, of course, a bigger and more important issue. @lardiman makes a very good point about the World Cup in Qatar. It won't be so visible, but the intolerance and discrimination at work in 2022 will be much more systemic, systematic and deeply embedded than what we saw in Sofia. So why are we going? It might be argued that building relationships enables influence, and hence will support a gradual process of change, and that this is much more constructive than 'looking down our noses' with a 'you're primitive and beneath us' type of attitude. Our values and beliefs can't be imposed on others and nor can they be shared overnight. Our objective is of course right, but change takes time. And we should never forget that our own history isn't so pretty.
|
|
|
Post by jonkool on Oct 18, 2019 16:45:05 GMT
It cuts through all aspects of society and is part of a herd instinct.
Although I thoroughly share the frustrations of people trying to get to work, the kick in received by the climate change protestor at Canning Town was totally over the top and disproportionate.
We live in worrying times but perhaps it’ was ever thus.
|
|
|
Post by oldred on Oct 29, 2019 23:21:07 GMT
Bulgaria have been fined £65,000 and ordered to play two games behind closed doors, one suspended for two years, following their fans racist abuse of England’s black players in the recent Euro 2020/ qualifier.
|
|