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Post by oldred on Sept 2, 2019 18:18:52 GMT
A topic for another thread probably, but I don’t really agree with parachute payments, and the advantage that they give to relegated teams over the rest of the teams in the league.
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Joe Aribo
Sept 2, 2019 18:25:41 GMT
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Post by rationaladdick on Sept 2, 2019 18:25:41 GMT
I see your point but have to disagree with part of it. No club in The Championship has gone under trying to turn 3 million into 100 million. They have gone under trying to turn 50 million into 100 million. 20,000 per week is the average Championship wage, not overspending. Right now we do not have a single player on our club making the average wage. Having 3 players out of 22 on the league average is not overspending. It’s common sense. Except it wouldn’t stop with 3 because the other players would want to be paid higher as well. It risks losing the harmony and team spirit. If we keep losing our best young players because we won’t even pay League average wages and become dependent on loans (who we lose 100% of the time) after we improve them, then in the next year or two we will have the greatest harmony in League One. I won’t take any satisfaction in that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 18:32:23 GMT
Except it wouldn’t stop with 3 because the other players would want to be paid higher as well. It risks losing the harmony and team spirit. If we keep losing our best young players because we won’t even pay League average wages and become dependent on loans (who we lose 100% of the time) after we improve them, then in the next year or two we will have the greatest harmony in League One. I won’t take any satisfaction in that. Great to have players wanting to play for Charlton...Enjoy being second in the championship... Enjoy the present, no point worrying about a couple of years time, anything can happen.....
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Post by Mundell on Sept 2, 2019 20:16:30 GMT
Except it wouldn’t stop with 3 because the other players would want to be paid higher as well. It risks losing the harmony and team spirit. If we keep losing our best young players because we won’t even pay League average wages and become dependent on loans (who we lose 100% of the time) after we improve them, then in the next year or two we will have the greatest harmony in League One. I won’t take any satisfaction in that. I agree. Trying to compete with the lowest wage bill in the League is simply not a sustainable proposition. We’ll eventually get relegated. We need an owner who is willing to sustain significant losses. However, unfortunately, they don’t grow on trees. Moreover, even an owner willing and able to splash the cash would need a coherent strategy, both in terms of budget and recruitment. In the meantime, let’s keep our fingers crossed that Lee Bowyer can pull off a Huddersfield style miracle.
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Joe Aribo
Sept 2, 2019 20:28:08 GMT
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Post by Mundell on Sept 2, 2019 20:28:08 GMT
A topic for another thread probably, but I don’t really agree with parachute payments, and the advantage that they give to relegated teams over the rest of the teams in the league. Parachute payments are an important part of the reason the Championship is a financial graveyard, a complete nightmare for clubs trying to contain losses. Unfortunately, parachute payments were also an important part of Richard Scudamore’s vision for the Premier League. A vision which has become a firmly established reality. Scudamore wanted all clubs in and promoted to the Premier League to spend big to attract the best players in the world. Parachute payments send an important message; offer players attractive long-term contracts and don’t worry about the risk. We’re going to take care of that. This strategy has worked, from the EPL’s perspective, and the ‘Product’ on offer is outstanding. Unfortunately, it’s hard to see the approach changing any time soon.
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Post by oldred on Sept 2, 2019 20:49:19 GMT
A topic for another thread probably, but I don’t really agree with parachute payments, and the advantage that they give to relegated teams over the rest of the teams in the league. Parachute payments are an important part of the reason the Championship is a financial graveyard, a complete nightmare for clubs trying to contain losses. Unfortunately, parachute payments were also an important part of Richard Scudamore’s vision for the Premier League. A vision which has become a firmly established reality. Scudamore wanted all clubs in and promoted to the Premier League to spend big to attract the best players in the world. Parachute payments send an important message; offer players attractive long-term contracts and don’t worry about the risk. We’re going to take care of that. This strategy has worked, from the EPL’s perspective, and the ‘Product’ on offer is outstanding. Unfortunately, it’s hard to see the approach changing any time soon. Yes I agree with what you say and understand that, but parachute payments give an unfair advantage to clubs that have already benefited from the riches of the Premier League. Why should they be given an advantage over the other clubs in the League, to gain those riches again, rather than another club getting their chance. I feel that The Championship, and the chance of winning a place in the Premier League, should be an level playing field, where every club has an equal chance, not where most clubs start with a handicap.
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Joe Aribo
Sept 2, 2019 21:05:50 GMT
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Post by Mundell on Sept 2, 2019 21:05:50 GMT
Parachute payments are an important part of the reason the Championship is a financial graveyard, a complete nightmare for clubs trying to contain losses. Unfortunately, parachute payments were also an important part of Richard Scudamore’s vision for the Premier League. A vision which has become a firmly established reality. Scudamore wanted all clubs in and promoted to the Premier League to spend big to attract the best players in the world. Parachute payments send an important message; offer players attractive long-term contracts and don’t worry about the risk. We’re going to take care of that. This strategy has worked, from the EPL’s perspective, and the ‘Product’ on offer is outstanding. Unfortunately, it’s hard to see the approach changing any time soon. Yes I agree with what you say and understand that, but parachute payments give an unfair advantage to clubs that have already benefited from the riches of the Premier League. Why should they be given an advantage over the other clubs in the League, to gain those riches again, rather than another club getting their chance. I feel that The Championship, and the chance of winning a place in the Premier League, should be an level playing field, where every club has an equal chance, not where most clubs start with a handicap. I agree with you, but (if you’ll pardon my language) Richard Scudamore didn’t give a shit about clubs in the Championship or the fairness of its competition. He was focused exclusively and entirely selfishly on the Premier League. Parachute payments are all about the Premier League. The impact on the Championship is simply inconsequential collateral damage. It is my understanding that Scudamore was very influential in the changes to the Championship’s FFP rules a few years back which saw a significant increase in allowable losses. It is alleged that be ‘bullied’ clubs to agree to the changes. Why? Because he didn’t want financially prudent clubs being promoted. Big spending, almost reckless owners are much better for the Premier League brand.
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Joe Aribo
Sept 3, 2019 7:07:45 GMT
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Post by massivebeak on Sept 3, 2019 7:07:45 GMT
If we keep losing our best young players because we won’t even pay League average wages and become dependent on loans (who we lose 100% of the time) after we improve them, then in the next year or two we will have the greatest harmony in League One. I won’t take any satisfaction in that. Great to have players wanting to play for Charlton...Enjoy being second in the championship... Enjoy the present, no point worrying about a couple of years time, anything can happen..... I don’t agree with the ‘don’t worry about it now’ mentality- it IS a worry and needs fixing otherwise the Club cannot maintain it’s success. We won’t always have miracle workers to bail us out.
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Joe Aribo
Sept 4, 2019 7:57:16 GMT
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Post by willett on Sept 4, 2019 7:57:16 GMT
Complete rubbish - you have no way of knowing what his career earnings would have been, you also have no way of knowing we would be successful. What we do know for a fact is that the owner fucked him on his contract here, and he will spend at least the next 3 years on £20,000 a week at Rangers. Their highest paid player - source - numerous Rangers fans on social media. We offered him 11k to stay ... We offered him 11K? So you're saying that the first offer was 22K a week. There's more chance of The Aussies having enough money to takeover the club than there is of that being true!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 9:34:47 GMT
A topic for another thread probably, but I don’t really agree with parachute payments, and the advantage that they give to relegated teams over the rest of the teams in the league. Agreed. Parachute payments are nothing more than an admission that the vast TV money of the Premier League has totally unbalanced the rest of English league football. Their success in selling their product globally has had consequences for the rest of the English game. And without the game of football itself the Premier League would have no product to sell. The FA ought to grow a pair and insist that the Premier League does more to help all of English football, rather than paying a few million to Clubs who couldn't hack it in the top flight but still need the cash fix they have become addicted to.
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Joe Aribo
Sept 4, 2019 9:36:50 GMT
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Post by bexleyboy on Sept 4, 2019 9:36:50 GMT
We offered him 11k to stay ... We offered him 11K? So you're saying that the first offer was 22K a week. There's more chance of The Aussies having enough money to takeover the club than there is of that being true! Where did I say that ? Again your making up your own crap Aribo was on 3k a week ... our first offer to him that his agent turned down was 7k that offer was then withdrawn ... after play off final our offer was around 11k a week ....
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Post by willett on Sept 4, 2019 10:36:58 GMT
We offered him 11K? So you're saying that the first offer was 22K a week. There's more chance of The Aussies having enough money to takeover the club than there is of that being true! Where did I say that ? Again your making up your own crap Aribo was on 3k a week ... our first offer to him that his agent turned down was 7k that offer was then withdrawn ... after play off final our offer was around 11k a week .... Our 2nd offer was half the first offer. 7K to 11K is obviously an increase. Do your maths Bexley! Let's leave it there anyway, as don't want to see more made up figures.
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Post by cafc2002 on Sept 4, 2019 14:27:17 GMT
No one knows the figures regarding Aribos wages, so why people make things up is beyond me, hes gone now anyway so what does it matter and we probably couldn't gave competed with Rangers anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 15:33:48 GMT
Quite honestly I couldn't care less, what they earn. The ones at the Valley clearly want to be there and makes for much better team spirit in my opinion. I'm sure the bloke at Huddersfield, cannot enjoy playing in a team losing every week, but is happy with his bank balance.but as people say, short career and all that... Joe Aribo, obviously wont find the Rangers fans as forgiving as Charltons.. High pressure, need instant success Same with Anfernee Dijksteel more pressure at Middlesborough than down here. Who knows Charlton might not be such a bad place after all...except for the large bank balances..
Dont you just love Jonny Williams.😇
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Joe Aribo
Sept 4, 2019 19:32:07 GMT
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Post by AndyB on Sept 4, 2019 19:32:07 GMT
Quite honestly I couldn't care less, what they earn. The ones at the Valley clearly want to be there and makes for much better team spirit in my opinion. I'm sure the bloke at Huddersfield, cannot enjoy playing in a team losing every week, but is happy with his bank balance.but as people say, short career and all that... Joe Aribo, obviously wont find the Rangers fans as forgiving as Charltons.. High pressure, need instant success Same with Anfernee Dijksteel more pressure at Middlesborough than down here. Who knows Charlton might not be such a bad place after all...except for the large bank balances.. Dont you just love Jonny Williams.😇 said that earlier about Johnny Williams taking a pay cut to join us - top player top man and inspirational
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Post by jeddez on Sept 10, 2019 18:45:28 GMT
Has just scored his first international goal for Nigeria on his debut!
Well done Joe
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Post by willett on Sept 10, 2019 18:55:17 GMT
Has just scored his first international goal for Nigeria on his debut! Well done Joe Wow! Didn't even know he was playing for them.
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Post by willett on Oct 13, 2019 12:37:41 GMT
Just scored against the mighty Brazil.
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Post by oldred on Oct 13, 2019 18:18:45 GMT
Just scored against the mighty Brazil. Good goal it was too. Well done Joe.
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Joe Aribo
Oct 14, 2019 7:20:47 GMT
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Post by jeddez on Oct 14, 2019 7:20:47 GMT
He’s had a good year so far!
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Post by kings hill addick on Oct 14, 2019 10:13:42 GMT
I have no inside information but I was under the impression that Aribo and Fosu were offered very good contracts and their Agent(s) told the club that that would not be signing a contract extension (under any circumstances) and they would decide what they would do the following summer when they were free to move for nothing (save a development fee).
If this is true it makes perfect sense for the club to withdraw the offers and make a new one that is the minimum required to guarantee a development fee is the players move on.
In Fosu's case I can accept that, he had been with us for just one season and . In Aribo's case it's more galling. He clearly had every intention of leaving in the summer for the biggest pay day he could get. Moving to Scotland so that the club's compensation is minimal and his wages can be boasted as a result of that.
I understand how it all works, and he did contribute to our season, but I think it puts him in a similar bracket to Sol Campbell when he kept saying that he hadn't decided and then signed for Arsenal, almost immediately after his Spurs contrast expired.
For the reasons above I do not have any sympathy for his career if it tanks, and I kind of hope it does. I think I also hope that he spunks his money up the wall and ends up with nothing as it's his greed that made him shaft us. It's not like Grant who did, indeed, play, and score, in the Premier League. Although I'm more than happy for him to find himself in the third division next season - especially if the rumors of him having to be begged to play for us the week before he moved are true.
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Post by Mundell on Oct 14, 2019 14:05:38 GMT
I have no inside information but I was under the impression that Aribo and Fosu were offered very good contracts and their Agent(s) told the club that that would not be signing a contract extension (under any circumstances) and they would decide what they would do the following summer when they were free to move for nothing (save a development fee). If this is true it makes perfect sense for the club to withdraw the offers and make a new one that is the minimum required to guarantee a development fee is the players move on.That's very interesting. If true (and I have no reason to doubt it), it confirms just how important it is that people don't jump to conclusions about events at the club when they don't have all the facts.
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Post by willett on Oct 14, 2019 16:06:02 GMT
I have no inside information but I was under the impression that Aribo and Fosu were offered very good contracts and their Agent(s) told the club that that would not be signing a contract extension (under any circumstances) and they would decide what they would do the following summer when they were free to move for nothing (save a development fee). If this is true it makes perfect sense for the club to withdraw the offers and make a new one that is the minimum required to guarantee a development fee is the players move on. In Fosu's case I can accept that, he had been with us for just one season and . In Aribo's case it's more galling. He clearly had every intention of leaving in the summer for the biggest pay day he could get. Moving to Scotland so that the club's compensation is minimal and his wages can be boasted as a result of that. I understand how it all works, and he did contribute to our season, but I think it puts him in a similar bracket to Sol Campbell when he kept saying that he hadn't decided and then signed for Arsenal, almost immediately after his Spurs contrast expired. For the reasons above I do not have any sympathy for his career if it tanks, and I kind of hope it does. I think I also hope that he spunks his money up the wall and ends up with nothing as it's his greed that made him shaft us. It's not like Grant who did, indeed, play, and score, in the Premier League. Although I'm more than happy for him to find himself in the third division next season - especially if the rumors of him having to be begged to play for us the week before he moved are true. Pretty sure this is not true. Why would we have offered Fosu a good offer when Bowyer didn't want him here. Seems like you have a grudge against Joe without having the facts.
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Post by hairyhotdog on Oct 14, 2019 16:14:38 GMT
I’ve never met Joe and I don’t know wether the story I was told is true , but it did sound plausible , I was in a taxi a few months ago and got chatting about football and Charlton in particular and the driver mentioned that he’d had a Charlton player in his taxi a little while back , he didn’t know his name , only that he was young , black and a polite young man , was telling him that he had a hard choice to make , he’d had offers from Scotland and he was under pressure to go there , but his heart wanted to stay at Charlton.... even asked the driver what he would do....!
As I said above , could of been the driver talking a load of jack n jill but the cabbie seemed pretty genuine in what he was saying....
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Joe Aribo
Oct 14, 2019 16:40:46 GMT
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Post by jeddez on Oct 14, 2019 16:40:46 GMT
We had to offer Fosu a contract in order for us to be eligible for a development fee, the contract had to be equal or better than existing terms.
With Aribo, it was decided that an initial offer was rescinded and a lower offer made to him. Then he seemed to flourish more that season and became an asset to bigger clubs as a signing for little money. He was never ever going to stay once mega bucks came calling. His choice but we didn’t help ourself, wish him all the best and we did produce him to a point but we move on...
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Post by kings hill addick on Oct 14, 2019 17:27:46 GMT
I have no inside information but I was under the impression that Aribo and Fosu were offered very good contracts and their Agent(s) told the club that that would not be signing a contract extension (under any circumstances) and they would decide what they would do the following summer when they were free to move for nothing (save a development fee). If this is true it makes perfect sense for the club to withdraw the offers and make a new one that is the minimum required to guarantee a development fee is the players move on. In Fosu's case I can accept that, he had been with us for just one season and . In Aribo's case it's more galling. He clearly had every intention of leaving in the summer for the biggest pay day he could get. Moving to Scotland so that the club's compensation is minimal and his wages can be boasted as a result of that. I understand how it all works, and he did contribute to our season, but I think it puts him in a similar bracket to Sol Campbell when he kept saying that he hadn't decided and then signed for Arsenal, almost immediately after his Spurs contrast expired. For the reasons above I do not have any sympathy for his career if it tanks, and I kind of hope it does. I think I also hope that he spunks his money up the wall and ends up with nothing as it's his greed that made him shaft us. It's not like Grant who did, indeed, play, and score, in the Premier League. Although I'm more than happy for him to find himself in the third division next season - especially if the rumors of him having to be begged to play for us the week before he moved are true. Pretty sure this is not true. Why would we have offered Fosu a good offer when Bowyer didn't want him here. Seems like you have a grudge against Joe without having the facts. I never said I was in the room when the conversations took place, but I didn't make it up. As for Bowyer offering Fosu a contract, check out the direct quotes from him in this article: www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/exclusive-charlton-offer-new-contracts-to-seven-players/Surely the fact that he was offered a contract, according to Bowyer, suggests that your question is moot and the logic is, obviously, flawed. You might want to read this article from the CAFC site too. www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/5bdc220a3c8d3/lee-bowyer-on-contract-offers-penalty-takers-and-mark-marshallBowyer, again, says that he wants to tie up the players. I'm not sure that the suggestion that a lower contract offer was made has come from anywhere other than the RD bashers on this, and other forums, yet it is talked about on here like it's gospel. I concede that it is possible that Aribo didn't make his mind up until the very last minute, I just don't believe it. I don't expect loyalty from players, nor do I demand it. It is a short career and they are well within their rights to do what ever they like. I just can't (or maybe I should say won't) join in the love fest for a player that manufactures his career to ensure that he gets the support and coaching from a club for years, and then conspires to maximize his earnings to the detriment of the club that has provided all the support and coaching. The money that paid for his development came from the players that went before him that left for a fee. Scott Parker took dogs abuse when he left for £10m. It has been made public from several sources, including Parker who still, to this day, gives interviews where he says that his contract in the summer had an agreement that if a top four club came in he could talk to them. If Roland has been the one that had 'shafted' Parker there would have been protests and all that shit. Joe Aribo leaves for nothing, even signs for a Scottish club that almost removed all the compensation and the message boards are slating the owner. The same one that gets slated for selling Grant and Konsa before their contracts expired. Wt least we received c. £3m for the other two players.
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Joe Aribo
Oct 22, 2019 12:00:00 GMT
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Post by rationaladdick on Oct 22, 2019 12:00:00 GMT
If we still had Grant, Konsa and Aribo, we would be running away with this division. And Roland would have a club worth £175M+. Think about his poor business skills... £20,000/week for all three players (£3M-4M over the last two years) and do not receive the £6M in transfer fees he got and he would have spent about £10M total to do this..... and if he did pass on that he would have a club worth £125M more than right now. Even Jeff Bezos does not get a return on investment of 1,250% over 24 months. That took him a decade. We have one short-sighted owner.
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Joe Aribo
Oct 22, 2019 12:10:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 12:10:50 GMT
If we still had Grant, Konsa and Aribo, we would be running away with this division. And Roland would have a club worth £175M+. Think about his poor business skills... £20,000/week for all three players (£3M-4M over the last two years) and do not receive the £6M in transfer fees he got and he would have spent about £10M total to do this..... and if he did pass on that he would have a club worth £125M more than right now. Even Jeff Bezos does not get a return on investment of 1,250% over 24 months. That took him a decade. We have one short-sighted owner. So are you saying Konsa is better than Lockyer and Aribo Gallagher and Grant, better than Bonne?
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Joe Aribo
Oct 22, 2019 21:57:17 GMT
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Post by MidlandRed on Oct 22, 2019 21:57:17 GMT
If we still had Grant, Konsa and Aribo, we would be running away with this division. And Roland would have a club worth £175M+. Think about his poor business skills... £20,000/week for all three players (£3M-4M over the last two years) and do not receive the £6M in transfer fees he got and he would have spent about £10M total to do this..... and if he did pass on that he would have a club worth £125M more than right now. Even Jeff Bezos does not get a return on investment of 1,250% over 24 months. That took him a decade. We have one short-sighted owner. So are you saying Konsa is better than Lockyer and Aribo Gallagher and Grant, better than Bonne? Konsa with constant game time would be a different player. Right now, I'd rather Lockyer Aribo, no I'd rather Gallagher but he's not our player. Grant has scored goals in the prem and is constantly scoring in a struggling side this year The argument makes little sense though. Every owner and club doesn't think if I keep these players we could be here in 4 5 years. Otherwise you'd have no incoming money and you'd have 60 players on the books
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Post by seriouslyred on Oct 22, 2019 22:46:37 GMT
If we still had Grant, Konsa and Aribo, we would be running away with this division. And Roland would have a club worth £175M+. Think about his poor business skills... £20,000/week for all three players (£3M-4M over the last two years) and do not receive the £6M in transfer fees he got and he would have spent about £10M total to do this..... and if he did pass on that he would have a club worth £125M more than right now. Even Jeff Bezos does not get a return on investment of 1,250% over 24 months. That took him a decade. We have one short-sighted owner. Ifs, buts and maybe... we have zero control over players leaving and joining... therefore embrace the chaos, support the lads and let us discuss the players who wear our shirt tomorrow night! Good players leave for a number of reasons, and yet every May few dissent about the list of players not renewed - every May players who haven't put in the effort / haven't developed / haven't committed are released. The difference today compared to 2016 is simple: Today we have had just two managers over the last three years - from 2014-16 we had about six! Put another way, Karlan Grant was sold last January and we still won promotion... we still climbed to the top half... and we average 17-18,000 every game... Best not expect perfect execution, best expect player sales as a sign that our coaching and team performance is turning a team that cost c.£3M into a club worth £50M+ We are on a journey - enjoy!
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