Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 16:35:45 GMT
Sarr has got another year left.
|
|
potato
Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 210
|
Post by potato on Oct 29, 2018 19:36:00 GMT
If it is true that he is losing 1M pound a month then he will lose 12M in a year. If he doesn't sell for two years he would have lost 24M. Our assets are diminishing. We have about fwelve to fourteen players who are out of contract in the Summer. Phillips, Bauer, Page, Marshall, Reeves, Forster-Caskey, Clarke, Ajose, Vetokele, Aribo, Grant, Fosu. The only way to realise a small transfer fee is to sell some of them in January. But the fees will be small. I just do not understand RDs rationale. The EBITDA (without depreciation, player amortization and interest) is a loss of £5-6M per annum so £500k per month. That assumes player sales of £3-4M pa. Note that most of the high earners will be out of contract next summer - players such as Vetokele, Sarr, Ajose - so losses might drop? Having said all that it's unclear why RD has not either dropped the asking price or put in the resources to enhance our promotion chances. We could explore that but ultimately it's bad news in the long term for our club. Why? Because in ten years on the market outside of the FAPL, we have not attracted an owner with the cash and expertise to build us up. Why might that change? The real worry is the sheer amount of out of contract players we will have by the end of the season. We will only in fact have 6 players from the entire current senior squad come July next year. That's some serious rebuilding that needs to be done if no new deals are struck between now and then. Whatever Duchatelet is losing right now, he is going to have to come up with improved contracts for the current players and shell out fees to replace all the players that aren't interested in signing a new contract. Here is a list of the players that are NOT out of contract in July. Dijksteel Pearce Pratley Sarr Solly Taylor Not much of a list, and more importantly, not much of a squad is it? Of course just because they have contracts that exceed the end of the season, it doesn't mean they will not be sold. If Taylor keeps playing the way he is, we'll be lucky to hold on to him in January let alone the end of the season. We had a lot of contracts running down when Duchatelet took over, but it wasn't quite this bad. Surely any potential buyer will be looking at this and wondering how on earth Roland can value the club such when potentially there could be no players (assets) come the end of the season?
|
|
|
Post by Mundell on Oct 29, 2018 21:38:57 GMT
I haven’t figured out the conundrum, but I’d offer a number of observations. 1. We don’t know for sure what the asking price is. Most of the rumours about the takeover appear not to be worth the paper they’re written on. 2. If the price is circa £40m, then perhaps the reason Duchatelet hasn’t reduced it (yet) is that somebody has offered to pay it. If AFC made an offer at that level in, say, February or March then the owner would have expected completion to be imminent (‘done deal’). He’d have had no way of knowing that the sale process would drag on and on and on .... 3. As seriouslyred has noted, it’s highly likely that payment for the club would be staged and contingent on promotion, first to the Championship and perhaps then to the Premier League too. If, for example, £10m was payable on each promotion, a price of £40m (£20m upfront) might be entirely reasonable. 4. While I doubt it, it is possible that the gross price quoted includes the discounted value of the former directors’ loans as shown in the club’s accounts. Given that these loans are only repayable on promotion to the Premier League they ought to be almost irrelevant as far as prospective owner is concerned. 5. Based on the latest accounts, dated end June ‘17, the club was due a potential £8.6m in add ons for players already sold by that date. My understanding is that this sum excludes any sell on fees (because they can’t be estimated), but these could be significant. Suppose Lookman is eventually sold to RB Leipzig for £20m plus, or Pope for £10m, for example. It’s possible that there is no sell on fee for these players and the odds are there isn’t one for Gomez. However, suppose there is and Gomez is sold to Real Madrid for £40m? This is all highly uncertain, but the fact is that the potential value in this area is huge and it’s inconceivable that Duchatelet wouldn’t want this reflected in the price. 6. If a fee was agreed in February/March, there would have been an allowance for the potential sale of Ezri Konsa. He may also have a sell on fee. 7. Duchatelet will no doubt have argued that the club’s academy represents a significant source of value which should be recognised in the purchase price. He will reference Shelvey, Jenkinson, Gomez, Lookman and Konsa as high quality recent examples, noting that Holmes-Dennis, Fox and Pope are also recent examples of players sold for fees. 8. Charlton has no external debt. It surprises me that any sane individual would buy a football club, though perhaps the word ‘sane’ provides something of a clue. However, if you’re so inclined, £40m for Charlton, if staged in the right way, doesn’t seem entirely ridiculous. There’s a good story to tell.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 7:58:51 GMT
One good way of lowering the wage bill would be to let all the contracts run out this Summer. Then buy players on low wages from Clubs such as Accrington,etc It would mean a bit of an outlay on transfer fees but the low wages would more than make up for that. Plus five loans and a few free transfers. Ajose, Vetokele, Reeves, Marshall and Bauer must be on good money.
|
|
|
Post by revilo on Oct 30, 2018 8:06:01 GMT
7 players have been offered new contracts but none of whom you listed above
|
|
|
Post by kings hill addick on Oct 30, 2018 12:50:41 GMT
If it is true that he is losing 1M pound a month then he will lose 12M in a year. If he doesn't sell for two years he would have lost 24M. Our assets are diminishing. We have about fwelve to fourteen players who are out of contract in the Summer. Phillips, Bauer, Page, Marshall, Reeves, Forster-Caskey, Clarke, Ajose, Vetokele, Aribo, Grant, Fosu. The only way to realise a small transfer fee is to sell some of them in January. But the fees will be small. I just do not understand RDs rationale. The EBITDA (without depreciation, player amortization and interest) is a loss of £5-6M per annum so £500k per month. That assumes player sales of £3-4M pa. Note that most of the high earners will be out of contract next summer - players such as Vetokele, Sarr, Ajose - so losses might drop? Having said all that it's unclear why RD has not either dropped the asking price or put in the resources to enhance our promotion chances. We could explore that but ultimately it's bad news in the long term for our club. Why? Because in ten years on the market outside of the FAPL, we have not attracted an owner with the cash and expertise to build us up. Why might that change? It won't change. In the end someone will cobble together enough money to wrestle the club from Roland and then they will spend money to get us promoted to the Championship and then (irrespective as to if we get out of the third division or not) they will run out of money and/or credit and we will be looking for someone, anyone, that can satisfy the creditors and keep us from administration or liquidation. Time is a great healer, and many have forgotten just how scary it is when the club's owners can't afford to pay the bills. Richard Murray was at the end of his benevolence when he sold the club to Slater and Jimenez who were, also, out of money when they sold to Roland. Roland is the only owner in our history (and probably in a group of only a couple of dozen in the history of English football) that can afford to bankroll a club, long term, in English football these days. It has not been fun since Roland took over but it has been the only time since we left the Premier League that I have not feared for the clubs financial security. Despite the suggestions that Roland hasn't invested enough or well enough etc. he is vary rare in that he can afford to. I would be concerned if he, literally, gave the club away as it would, then, be all top easy for a Mark Goldberg type owner to come in and run up debts that he can't clear when he walks away.
|
|
|
Post by seriouslyred on Oct 30, 2018 14:40:13 GMT
The EBITDA (without depreciation, player amortization and interest) is a loss of £5-6M per annum so £500k per month. That assumes player sales of £3-4M pa. Note that most of the high earners will be out of contract next summer - players such as Vetokele, Sarr, Ajose - so losses might drop? Having said all that it's unclear why RD has not either dropped the asking price or put in the resources to enhance our promotion chances. We could explore that but ultimately it's bad news in the long term for our club. Why? Because in ten years on the market outside of the FAPL, we have not attracted an owner with the cash and expertise to build us up. Why might that change? It won't change. In the end someone will cobble together enough money to wrestle the club from Roland and then they will spend money to get us promoted to the Championship and then (irrespective as to if we get out of the third division or not) they will run out of money and/or credit and we will be looking for someone, anyone, that can satisfy the creditors and keep us from administration or liquidation. Time is a great healer, and many have forgotten just how scary it is when the club's owners can't afford to pay the bills. Richard Murray was at the end of his benevolence when he sold the club to Slater and Jimenez who were, also, out of money when they sold to Roland. Roland is the only owner in our history (and probably in a group of only a couple of dozen in the history of English football) that can afford to bankroll a club, long term, in English football these days. It has not been fun since Roland took over but it has been the only time since we left the Premier League that I have not feared for the clubs financial security. Despite the suggestions that Roland hasn't invested enough or well enough etc. he is vary rare in that he can afford to. I would be concerned if he, literally, gave the club away as it would, then, be all to easy for a Mark Goldberg type owner to come in and run up debts that he can't clear when he walks away. If we take that analysis and speculation a step further then what really happens when the (any!) club changes hands. If the owners are distressed and cannot afford the losses, then they have a weak hand and can be wiped out as per Baton 2010 or at least take a haircut as Jiminez and Cash did back in 2014. If the owner can afford the losses then they might hold out for "the bigger fool" OR price for a quick sale. OR they might enhance the value by putting in place the right management and squad to secure a higher league status. At the same time a few thousand fans cite lack of ambition or simple dislike of RD for not attending on a Saturday. And this dispute is breaking out again on CL as razil suggests: "Yes but he is going, you cant really doubt it, and whatever we say it will be on his terms. So why punish ourselves, and risk the club and its support dying off even further?" The responses from Everitt: "What part of people not going because they don’t want to go do you not get? The vast majority of the fall-off in crowds is caused by the fact people do not want to pay Roland to watch a club (NB club not team) with no plan going through the motions in a crap division, or parts thereof. No number of vacuous appeals is going to change the way those people feel about it." At what point is a statment promoting our club a "vacuous appeal" and when is it a genuine appeal to back Bow and the lads? Somebody wants maximum impact from a boycott today because he is then well positioned to offer his services to the next owner with the confidence that he can convince many fans to return. There's nothing wrong with either stance but there is this blind assumption that there will be a new owner riding in on a white charger. As per my musings around absurdism and existentialism a while back this is simply yet another leap of faith. Camus and others proposed three approaches as to what to do when faced with the absurd: 1) Walk away 2) Make a leap of faith - in this case with either RD or CARD or 3) Embrace the absurd, enjoy the game and quite possibly a lot more but I've yet to think that one through. Here's the key phrase from Wiki: Camus endorsed this [third] solution, believing that by accepting the Absurd, one can achieve the greatest extent of one's freedom, and that by recognizing no religious or other moral constraints and by revolting against the Absurd while simultaneously accepting it as unstoppable, one could possibly be content from the personal meaning constructed in the process. For me this is important - not sure what others think? For if we think toys on the pitch and 100 protesters in the car park is a form of attention seeking and yet we are confused as to why RD doesn't simply recruit the best DoF, CEO and players in January then what's left? Walk away or simply embrace CAFC and take the sympathy vote from those who know you are a Charlton fan. Embrace the absurd at CAFC - was it really ever any different?! Or as you state, "It won't change". Those who suggest it will change were the same people who embraced RD et al when he first arrived and latched onto the words of KM when she defined the situation they inherited as "a mess".
|
|
potato
Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 210
|
Post by potato on Oct 30, 2018 23:31:41 GMT
If they inherited a mess it's going to be a real shit show for the next owner as things went backwards in almost every way. No wonder he can't find a buyer, he is asking too much for a business he has wrecked and it's 'customers' have all buggered off and there is no guarantee they will ever return. If I wasn't so desperate for him to sell I might find it all a little more amusing.
|
|
|
Post by zenga on Oct 31, 2018 0:27:07 GMT
Genuinely curious, how do you know his asking price?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 12:32:52 GMT
7 players have been offered new contracts but none of whom you listed above But how many of those offered will sign? Possibly just under half?
|
|
|
Post by revilo on Nov 21, 2018 22:45:59 GMT
Takeover update:
The meeting was attended by members of the Fans' Forum, club staff and Lieven De Turck (LDT), who is representing the club in takeover talks. The below notes cover the takeover section of the meeting, notes from the rest of the meeting will be available in due course.
LDT reiterated that priority number one still to sell the club. He said there is no date set but it is still the priority. He said there is no exclusivity with one party and that the party that completes first will get the club.
He then explained the status of the five parties that were mentioned as interested at the previous meeting:
Groups linked to the Australians
The group still have to lodge the outstanding documents with the EFL to complete the deal. As far as LDT is aware they have had some further contact with the EFL. LDT said they are very much still on the radar. The issue, he feels, is still their complexity which is very high. LDT said he felt there had been progress as to him it appears they have reduced their complexity which LDT thinks is a good thing. LDT said his last phone call with them was this morning and that he hears from them every week.
Ian Wallis (Bromley Addicks) said he had a source that said he was close to the bid and didn’t think a price had been agreed.
LDT said the price was agreed a long time ago (February) and that is not a long term discussion point in the talks. As far as LDT is aware there hasn’t been an issue with the agreed price.
Second party (British)
LDT said the group have always been active. LDT confirmed they are British. He said in the last week he felt they had taken a big step. LDT expected things will be sped up now. He explained that in the past they had shown they had proof of funds but with proof of funds alone they cannot purchase the club. Now they appear close to putting the money on the table.
The third party (European)
LDT said that due diligence is ongoing with the third party. They have a committee that will decide in two weeks if they will offer and what their offer is.
The fourth party (European)
An NDA is signed but LDT hasn’t received a proof of funds.
The fifth party
In October they asked for time to make up their mind, they now have come back to the club and signed an NDA. They met Roland Duchatelet (RD) at the beginning of the week. They showed LDT and RD their plans. They haven’t done proof of funds but LDT doesn’t think it will be an issue with them.
Additional
LDT confirmed RD has met representatives from the first, second and fifth party.
Barnie Razzell (City Addicks) asked why he met them and not the others. LDT explained the first two were in May when RD was over at the club when the other parties were not involved.
LDT said he felt the upcoming transfer window and being sixth in the league helps with the sale of the club which is why he feels there has been movement recently.
LDT still feels the Australians are most likely.
John Perkns (Away Travel) asked why the takeover was taking so long. LDT said the time it has taken is not exceptional because when you buy you want to turn every stone and football is constantly moving.
The next Fans’ Forum is set for February 20th 2019, should the club not be sold by January 9th 2019, a further takeover specific Fans' Forum meeting will take place.
|
|
|
Post by bexleyboy on Nov 22, 2018 7:52:14 GMT
As I said off site two weeks ago the Aussie have moved forward with new overseas backers agreeing to join them ...
|
|
|
Post by 1978sussex on Nov 22, 2018 8:51:45 GMT
|
|
|
Post by 1978sussex on Nov 22, 2018 8:52:12 GMT
|
|
|
Post by 1978sussex on Nov 22, 2018 8:53:21 GMT
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Nov 22, 2018 10:02:51 GMT
We all need a bit of a gee up!!
|
|
|
Post by reamsofverse on Nov 22, 2018 10:12:08 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 10:23:51 GMT
I really can't see us getting taken over any time soon.
|
|
|
Post by northlondonaddict on Nov 22, 2018 11:07:58 GMT
hopefully they will be mega mega rich, and wouldn't mind spending a few quid time will tell
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 11:36:43 GMT
I heard a rumour, yes it was just a rumour, some time ago that that the then European interest was headed by billionaire Dietrich Mateschitz. Nothing regarding him recently.
|
|
|
Post by pulled off at half time on Nov 22, 2018 12:27:35 GMT
why the horses reference Reams ?
|
|
harry69
Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 217
|
Post by harry69 on Nov 22, 2018 12:32:14 GMT
Arabs?
|
|
|
Post by willett on Nov 22, 2018 13:42:19 GMT
As I said off site two weeks ago the Aussie have moved forward with new overseas backers agreeing to join them ... The gift that keeps giving!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 14:14:39 GMT
As I said off site two weeks ago the Aussie have moved forward with new overseas backers agreeing to join them ... The gift that keeps giving! If you said it off site how are we supposed to know you said it?
|
|
|
Post by seriouslyred on Nov 22, 2018 14:59:28 GMT
LDT said he felt the upcoming transfer window and being sixth in the league helps with the sale of the club which is why he feels there has been movement recently. And that's the message I have posted for the last 18 months. Being sixth in the league keeps things upbeat with the fans and the team and is far better than being mid-table. It provides the opportunity for a prospective owner to project their vision onto the club with the view that converting sixth place into a promotion push might be achieved in just six months. Obviously we would all prefer that whoever owns the club late December is viewing the January window as an opportunity to strengthen the side. At least so that we can challenge for a higher position and really have a go at winning the play-offs. This board has explored the various reasons why we are sixth and not higher up in the top four. Consistency, tactics, team selection have all been identified. For the first time in years we have a striking pair who are scoring a goal a game between them. We've obviously had Page out plus no Cullen in August and now he's out again for a while. Despite injuries at centre back we have been able to select some strong combinations there although we went a few weeks where it wasn't good. Bow, JJ and Gallen are learning, they had a great summer window and we will see where they take us at the half way mark. Once again, if RD wants top dollar for the loans he has injected and the deals are not crossing the line, then he may wish to consider giving Bow and Gallen what they ask for this January. For if we can maintain a top six position and develop the side with coaching and additions then that is surely a win:win? Attractive for the fans and attractive for a new buyer - the closer we get to the Championship the more attractive it becomes. Even more so since the likes of Vetokele and other high earners go off the books next June - whatever division we are in next season there is a big opportunity to reshape the squad.
|
|
|
Post by seriouslyred on Nov 22, 2018 15:03:45 GMT
As I said off site two weeks ago the Aussie have moved forward with new overseas backers agreeing to join them ... The Aussies might now have their consortium in order but that raises the question of why only now? And why have they been spinning that the deal was imminent since February when their financing was not in place? Fundamentally we have a problem in that CAFC as a League One club is not that attractive. And that's why RD should consider funding a promotion push this January if he is genuine about selling up.
|
|
|
Post by AndyAddick on Nov 22, 2018 16:32:21 GMT
The Aussies are history
|
|
|
Post by AndyAddick on Nov 22, 2018 16:36:04 GMT
|
|
|
Post by oldred on Nov 22, 2018 16:58:13 GMT
It’s interesting, that the fiifth group are the only one on the list ,that doesn’t have any nationality reference , whereas all the others have .
|
|
|
Post by willett on Nov 22, 2018 17:37:27 GMT
The gift that keeps giving! If you said it off site how are we supposed to know you said it? That's It Mate. He doesn't say anything that's correct The only correct things he says are after they have happened.
|
|