Duchatelet's stubbornness costing us points hand over fist

[reamsofverse]

Surely he knows that if we had another striker other than Igor Vetokele we would be sitting comfortably in the top 6?

Clearly the fact that he chased Andy Delort for two months had more to do than what he had in mind for Tours rather than what he had in mind for us because if he recognised that we needed a striker back then why can't he now?

Like I said earlier he obviously wants to keep his money in his pocket and bore fans to death than spend it and have players who can entertain and win football matches.

[bexleyboy]

WE CANT SIGN ANYONE till Jan

And teams are not going to let good layers leave on loan

Simple don't know why you keep going on about the Same thing

[reamsofverse]

Nov 22, 2014 19:21:48 GMT bexleyboy said:

WE CANT SIGN ANYONE till Jan

And teams are not going to let good layers leave on loan

Simple don't know why you keep going on about the Same thing

Er.....What did Arsenal borrow us Francis Coquelin for then?

You are spot on though about the fact that we can't sign anybody until January which is even more reason why we should have done so before the summer window closed.

[bexleyboy]

We tired right up to 11pm had a striker and midfield player lined up but could not get the deals over the line

Simple arsenal have loads of mid players ..... Go and ask then to loan us the young black lad and bet we get a diff answer

You can always get keeper defender and mid on loan but strikers no chance

[pn87]

Need a big target man! Should only play a small striker upfront when.... its F****** Messi!! And not @callymessi or whatever he calls himself

[peterhuntsbeard]

If our only other striking option is the hopeless tucudean we can kiss goodbye to a top 6 finish.

[Deleted]

Nov 22, 2014 22:29:51 GMT peterhuntsbeard said:

If our only other striking option is the hopeless tucudean we can kiss goodbye to a top 6 finish.

Sorry but George Tucudean is not hopeless. George Hope was though.

[addick4ever]

Nov 22, 2014 22:29:51 GMT peterhuntsbeard said:

If our only other striking option is the hopeless tucudean we can kiss goodbye to a top 6 finish.

Don't agree with you on that, George is there in good positions and will come good I think, we do need another target man agreed but looks like it will be January before we get one so little point in moaning. We are still difficult to beat and are unbeaten at home, would love to have beaten the spanners in the last minute today and almost did, so take the point and move on, the championship is a tricky league so very difficult to predict but we are still on touching distance of playoffs and have to be happy with that.

[Deleted]

Nov 22, 2014 23:21:09 GMT addick4ever said:

Nov 22, 2014 22:29:51 GMT peterhuntsbeard said:

If our only other striking option is the hopeless tucudean we can kiss goodbye to a top 6 finish.

Don't agree with you on that, George is there in good positions and will come good I think, we do need another target man agreed but loupoks like it will be January before we get one so little point in moaning. We are still difficult to beat and are unbeaten at home, would love to have beaten the spanners in the last minute today and almost did, so take the point and move on, the championship is a tricky league so very difficult to predict but we are still on touching distance of playoffs and have to be happy with that.

[canterburyaddick]

By his own admission George has struggled with the physicality of the Championship. In the last 10/15 mins yesterday the ball was coming back at us all the time. Vetekele was knackered and George wasn't doing his job. There is a footballer in there somewhere, but may be not in this league.

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2014 10:32:46 GMT canterburyaddick said:

By his own admission George has struggled with the physicality of the Championship. In the last 10/15 mins yesterday the ball was coming back at us all the time. Vetekele was knackered and George wasn't doing his job. There is a footballer in there somewhere, but may be not in this league.

Ryman Premier he may fit in with.

[bexleyboy]

Think George should have come on at half time I think we would have won with two up top

[Deleted]

The need for additional resources up front has been there from day one this season.  The club and the coaching staff have known that but you have to work with the resources you have available.    

From the players we know about the club has sought to upgrade their options. We have no idea what other options they have explored.

I will list a few of the rumoured options.

O'Grady - joined Brighton - has all but disappeared
Baldock - joined Brighton - has struggled to make an impact
Best - joined Derby on loan - prefers to stay in the Midlands/ North spent the season on the bench
Beccio - joined Rotherham on loan - has struggled badly through injury
Morison - Leeds - struggled with injuries - struggled to get a game - still on PL wages
Wickham - Sunderland - battling for 1st team spot - on PL wages - host of Northern Club options available to him
Fryatt - Forest - only now just started to get a regular game - again prefers the Northern option
Bent - Regular on Villa bench - on massive PL wages
Graham - now Wolves - has struggled badly to deliver for the past 2 seasons - still on PL wages
Holt - struggled at Wigan - shown an impact at Huddersfield - will it be maintained? On PL wages - again prefers Northern option
Bamford - On loan to Middlesboro - usually used off the bench - with Boro due to Karanka - Mourinho link
Vossen - On loan to Middlesboro - rarely gets off the bench
Delort - Wigan - struggled to get a game now has back injury
Sagbo - Hull - struggled badly at Wolves returned to Hull

You can then look at the lower leagues

Garner - Preston - has shown marked improvement this season but has previously failed at Forest and Watford
Smith - Swindon - we know him well - but was he really an option at the start of the season

Even the Tulio de Melio apparently wanted £20k a week on a 3yr contract and rejected a contract of £11k a week for the rest of this season. This is for a guy who although with some pedigree has struggled to stay on the pitch for most of the past 4 seasons completing full appearances on only 35 occasions.

I will leave the floor open to you please tell me who are the other options we might be able to secure without breaking the bank - who really are going to make the difference.

Remember guys you are only get to spend the money once!

[Deleted]

If only we had kept Kermorgant...................

[ashaddick]

Nov 23, 2014 14:51:56 GMT grapevine49 said:

The need for additional resources up front has been there from day one this season.  The club and the coaching staff have known that but you have to work with the resources you have available.    

From the players we know about the club has sought to upgrade their options. We have no idea what other options they have explored.

I will list a few of the rumoured options.

O'Grady - joined Brighton - has all but disappeared
Baldock - joined Brighton - has struggled to make an impact
Best - joined Derby on loan - prefers to stay in the Midlands/ North spent the season on the bench
Beccio - joined Rotherham on loan - has struggled badly through injury
Morison - Leeds - struggled with injuries - struggled to get a game - still on PL wages
Wickham - Sunderland - battling for 1st team spot - on PL wages - host of Northern Club options available to him
Fryatt - Forest - only now just started to get a regular game - again prefers the Northern option
Bent - Regular on Villa bench - on massive PL wages
Graham - now Wolves - has struggled badly to deliver for the past 2 seasons - still on PL wages
Holt - struggled at Wigan - shown an impact at Huddersfield - will it be maintained? On PL wages - again prefers Northern option
Bamford - On loan to Middlesboro - usually used off the bench - with Boro due to Karanka - Mourinho link
Vossen - On loan to Middlesboro - rarely gets off the bench
Delort - Wigan - struggled to get a game now has back injury
Sagbo - Hull - struggled badly at Wolves returned to Hull

You can then look at the lower leagues

Garner - Preston - has shown marked improvement this season but has previously failed at Forest and Watford
Smith - Swindon - we know him well - but was he really an option at the start of the season

Even the Tulio de Melio apparently wanted £20k a week on a 3yr contract and rejected a contract of £11k a week for the rest of this season. This is for a guy who although with some pedigree has struggled to stay on the pitch for most of the past 4 seasons completing full appearances on only 35 occasions.

I will leave the floor open to you please tell me who are the other options we might be able to secure without breaking the bank - who really are going to make the difference.

Remember guys you are only get to spend the money once!

Iteresting, very interesting !

[bexleyboy]

If only Yann Kermit had not been a greedy bastard

[reamsofverse]

You are basing a list of players on rumours though, be honest how may of us had ever heard of Igor Vetokele before the season started. I suggested Calum Wilson last season and look where he ended up.

Plenty of strikers were available before the season started but none of them were Belgian and that is what you need to be apparantly, it's not about the money, we were willing to spend £2.5m on a French fake.

[discocafc]

You are being very harsh on Duchatelet Reams, especially when our budget has been the biggest since we returned from League one. The pitch, players like Vetokele and Guddmonsson etc etc and the investment in our training ground, you can't say "he obviously wants to keep his money in his pocket" that is a ridiculous remark.

Bob has said he is looking at a Striker, so we are aiming for a Striker.

To sum it up, Roland obviously wants to make money but if he used any sense (which I believe he does) then promotion to the Premier League would be a good start.

[cafcforever]

Hope to get a decent striker in January.

[Deleted]

Yes - I did base the list on rumours - that is precisely what I said and why I included the names in the list because most will have heard of them - I am asking people for their further suggestions.

A generic "there were plenty of strikers out there" may well be true but who exactly are talking about?

It is easy for people to keep demanding the club to bring in other players as if there is a great pool of talent just sitting out there waiting to be signed. 

I agree there is a large pool of players just sitting out there but are they the right ones in terms of ability and cost?   

If the criticism of Duchatelet stubbornness is costing us points is not based on his willingness to spend what exactly is the accusation of stubbornness based on? Being Belgian? Nine or 10 of the above named rumours are UK based players and only one (to my limited knowledge) played in Belgium.

The need for additional forward support has been staring us in the face for most of the season but if look around 90% of the clubs are in exactly the same position.  It is why anyone with half decent pedigree wants in excess of £12k a week.   

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2014 22:44:54 GMT grapevine49 said:

Yes - I did base the list on rumours - that is precisely what I said and why I included the names in the list because most will have heard of them - I am asking people for their further suggestions.

A generic "there were plenty of strikers out there" may well be true but who exactly are talking about?

It is easy for people to keep demanding the club to bring in other players as if there is a great pool of talent just sitting out there waiting to be signed. 

I agree there is a large pool of players just sitting out there but are they the right ones in terms of ability and cost?   

If the criticism of Duchatelet stubbornness is costing us points is not based on his willingness to spend what exactly is the accusation of stubbornness based on? Being Belgian? Nine or 10 of the above named rumours are UK based players and only one (to my limited knowledge) played in Belgium.

The need for additional forward support has been staring us in the face for most of the season but if look around 90% of the clubs are in exactly the same position.  It is why anyone with half decent pedigree wants in excess of £12k a week.   

And of course like all of us, the vast majority of the time things have to be based on rumours.  Unless we are the proverbial ITK!

[Deleted]

RD is a business man first a football man 2nd, he has put bundles into the academy to build on the resources available to us freely, this is great and will pay dividends in a few years, he has made some good signings and made money available in the summer, our squad on paper isn't too bad, we have had a couple of coach changes but both times RD seemed to make pretty good choices in coach, he has invested in a paint job and a lovely state of the art new pitch, he is invested in our future and obviously wants us to be a successful but profitable club over the long term, does it really matter if it takes us a couple of years to get back to the top, as long as we get there? Personally I think the climb should be slow and steady to be more stable when we get there, rather than throwing all resources into one season to push for a promotion we're not ready for yet, only to yo-yo back. Most importantly, whether you agree with his methods or not, he is the reason we're still here and still trading, we were going downwards fast before being 'rescued' we should be thankful, and quite frankly a bit more trusting. Good times are coming be patient.

[muttleycafc]

Ideally, the climb should be slow and steady, but you also need to take your chances when they come. If the right striker became available at the right price, I am confident we would go for them. Grapevine’s summary was excellent – there is a tendency with football fans to ignore certain facts and assume that players not playing are better than those in the side. I was relieved and said as much when we didn’t sign O’Grady and Baldock as I couldn’t see what they would bring that was so much better than what we had. The business model is clearly for the club to be well run and sustainable, but it isn’t adverse to having a go if the right payer becomes available. Spending 3m euros on Igor shows intent in my eyes, but even if we desperately need a striker, we have to get one who will improve us and if we are going to spend significant money on him, it has to be a definite, not a possible improvement.

Fans also don’t pay much heed to the cost of players in terms on wages etc… This is very important and whilst it is tantalising knowing we are not far off, we also have to accept that the season so far has exceeded expectations and trust the owner and manager to do what is right. I was suspicious and demanded they earn my trust at the start of the season and they both have. I can see a trajectory that is very positive going forwards.

[Deleted]

If we can get Coq and the Yank tied to longer perm deals and extend the contract of JBG then next season is set up to be a good one if we can just add that striker we need (or two). If we can get him/them in Jan for a decent price then so much the better.

[Deleted]

It maybe worth re-reading this article back from 2009.....

The Valley has become a place of dismay rather than excitement in recent years.

When Alan Curbishley was asked recently to reflect on the fall of Charlton Athletic, he could only suppress a shudder and offer pained disbelief at a plummet from top flight to the brink of the third tier. "In 2½ years, they've gone from a mid-table Premier League side to a team bottom of the Championship," he said. "So many people put such a lot of effort into getting the club where they were. I find it quite difficult to understand what has happened."

Those supporters who have witnessed the descent at first hand have stopped ­trying to comprehend. There is a sense of resignation at The Valley these days, an acceptance that their team, now 14 points adrift of safety at the foot of the table, are destined for League One after 28 years in the top two divisions. Their seven-year spell in the Premier League, which ended two years ago, already feels like a distant memory after only two wins in their last 28 league games. The talk is of calls for unity, and of a return to the spirit that saw this club reborn in the 1990s. Yet the end of the current campaign cannot come soon enough.

Charlton's tale will ring horribly familiar at Leicester City, Sheffield Wednesday, even Leeds United. This is a club that finished seventh among the elite as recently as 2004, and enjoyed comfortable mid-table placings in the two subsequent years. Then came unfamiliar managerial upheaval, an ambitious and poorly executed challenge for Europe, and a departure from their comfort zone. The combination of mistakes – many of which are privately acknowledged in retrospect – at managerial and board levels has contrived to condemn a club long held up as a role model to the lower reaches. "Everyone involved has to take some responsibility," said the midfielder Matt Holland. "We have to look at it and admit we haven't been good enough."

The players are not alone in having proved inadequate. What makes this club's recent toils all the more mystifying is the reality that, in terms of infrastructure, they boast so much in their favour.The club owns The Valley, an impressive 26,500-seater stadium geographically close to the 2012 Olympics site, and their 37-acre training ground in New Eltham. They are not under pressure from major creditors with their debts largely defined as "friendly" and taking the form of loans from directors. Some £6m is owed to the construction firm Lombard, who undertook the extension of the stadium, but the annual payments of about £1m are manageable. Suggestions that Charlton are on the verge of administration have been dismissed by the football club chairman, Richard Murray. Indeed, so attractive are the Addicks off the pitch that the Dubai-based investment firm Zabeel were within 24 hours of a takeover deal last October only for the credit crunch to flatten their interest at the last minute. That, in itself, proved horribly unsettling. The board have instructed Rothschild & Co to continue that search for potential new owners but, at first glance, this club would offer more as an investment than many others currently up for sale.

"The irony is that it's only on the field where we have a problem," said Dave Rudd, a representative of the Charlton Fans Forum (Caff) who met Murray and the plc chairman, Derek Chappell, last month. "Look at the set-up. It's in marvellous shape. As an investment, we are extremely attractive. Sadly, the only piece of the jigsaw we don't have is the one every­body sees on a weekly basis." The slump on the pitch can be charted from the latter days of Curbishley's 15-year reign. There were only five wins in his last 20 league games in charge and, aware that the manager would not be renewing his contract, the club had tried to plan for life after Curbishley. The idea put forward by the then chief executive, Peter Varney, and Murray was designed to build on the platform laid down by years of stability to reflect the growth in expectation. Yet the reality was that they had relied too long on their manager's nous in the market and, perhaps, his recognition of what could be deemed realistic ambitions.

"People were actually moaning at the time that we 'only' finished in mid-table," said the former Charlton midfielder Danny Murphy. "It's only now that people realise how much of an achievement that was."

The board had become unaccustomed to choosing new management. Iain Dowie offered charisma and flamboyance, interviewing impressively and infuriating local rivals Crystal Palace with his defection, and the board believed they had recruited a successor capable of delivering Europe, the clamor for which had been growing steadily among a support that had swelled to fill the stadium. Some £11m was spent on players, signings earmarked by Dowie and secured by the newly-appointed General Manager – Football, Andrew Mills. The squad's cumulative salary did not actually rise markedly in the summer of 2006 – Deloitte's annual report into football finance that year revealed a wage bill of £34,297,000, up by £75,000 – but, tellingly, wages accounted for 95% of turnover, the second highest ratio in the top flight. Most of those contracts carried over into the Championship.

With relegation not an option, the sloppy start to Dowie's reign sent shockwaves through the boardroom. The management structure that had been carefully mapped out was jettisoned after 12 league games, with Les Reed lasting only 40 days in the job as his successor. Patience gave way to panic. This was unfamiliar upheaval, a succession of knee-jerk reactions as the fear gripped that the security of top-flight status was in jeopardy. There was a desperation in the return to a more traditional framework with the recruitment of Alan Pardew, – a popular choice among the fans – though the "impact manager" ultimately could not arrest the decline. Even so, the quality that remained in their squad suggested last season could provide an immediate return to the elite, only for players and staff alike to fail utterly to adjust to life outside the Premier League. A tally of three wins in their last 15 games wrecked those hopes, though even that return contrasts favourably with the ineptitude of this term.

Phil Parkinson was appointed caretaker in succession to Pardew in November with Chappell stating that he would be "judged on results". The temporary manager did not win any of his first eight games – part of a club-record 18-match winless league sequence – before being handed the job full-time. His body language at Molineux on Saturday, despite the bullish rhetoric, betrayed an increasingly hopeless position at the foot with a sense of instability persisting. Off the pitch, the dynamics of the boardroom had shifted with Varney's departure. On it, Charlton have used 36 players, including 11 loanees. Burnley, currently in a play-off position, have relied on 23. A number of the Addicks' higher earners – Holland, Darren Ambrose, Zheng Zhi, Nicky Weaver – are out of contract in the summer and will move on. The board's desperation to return to the stability of old is likely to see Parkinson retained to be offered the opportunity to mount a promotion challenge next year.

It is a cycle of chaos and calamity to leave the locals pining for the safety of the Curbishley era. "We were put on a pedestal as the 'perfect football club', but this is what happens to small clubs who over-achieve in the Premier League," said Sacha Zarb of the Caff. "One bad season and it can take five to 10 years to recover. Mentally, I'm already prepared for life in League One, but people should always remember that Charlton have come back from far, far worse than this. " The homeless days of 1985-92 should offer context even to current miseries. Come the end of May, the recovery must commence.

[seriouslyred]

I thank you for that article. I forget how many times I've posted that this is potentially the best season since 2007.
It takes time to build but it is no exaggeration to state that CAFC is being rebuilt quicker than it fell over!
If we are 9th without these two key players then we are bound to finish higher once we sign them.
But the club should not be in a rush to sign just anyone. The next two players have to be young, top quality and fit in with the new hungry CAFC culture. Perhaps they come from Copenhagen or Netherlands and perhaps they know some of our front six already.
What is absolutely clear is that the new owner is carving out progress week by week, month by month with players coming and going all the time.
And in the background architects and project managers work on a new academy design which might be costing more than double the original scheme.
So let's be patient and support the current squad in their quest to stay in touch with the top six.

[reamsofverse]

Well another transfer window closes and not even a sniff of a new striker.

I hear what people are saying about our ambition this season is to finish as high as we can without threatening to gate crash the play-offs but surely to God if our aim is a top 10 finish then we have to be giving ourselves the best chance of doing so and not strengthening desperately weak areas of our side is for me a major mistake.

Patching up Igor week in week out to go out their and perform when half fit isn't a situation we should be forcing upon ourselves. From a fans perspective, if I had a season ticket I would feel a little bit cheated by RD for deliberately refusing to address a serious issue up front.

[seriouslyred]

Coquelin signed for another month and Peeters is starting to play 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1 or some variation.
If they don't land a decent striker in January then that is a real issue.
The point is that every month players out of the reckoning are going out on loan and every month the first team are gaining another four or five games experience of playing together and against championship opposition.
What you are missing by not having a season ticket is the experience of watching this team grow. I was at the Welling friendly and Brentford away and the first half of each game was not pretty.
Add a decent striker to what we have and our club will have people sitting up and paying attention. They don't want just anyone, they want quality and I'm right behind them on that.

[DFT]

Absolutely vital that we get a striker in January, I'm hoping the reason they haven't signed anyone on loan is that we've already got someone lined up.

[cafcforever]

No good just playing one up front.