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Post by reamsofverse on Oct 21, 2014 20:49:03 GMT
Jesus, how did we win that?? Heard and kicked every ball tonight cheering us on in what was a really backs top the wall job. The stats don't lie we were dominated but the most important stat of all is the result and it went out way. Great to hear the fans pushing us over the line with five minutes to go and now it's on to Fulham on Friday. It sounded like we had some lads out there tonight who were on their last legs which is not a good sign so let's hope the looking on RD realises that we have a squeak here and puts his hand in his pocket long before January because we are the lowest scorers in the top half of the table and it's no good having new players in three months time playing in a fatigued side anyway. Being outplayed by Bolton has to be a worry with them being bottom of the league so reinforcements are the only way forward if we are going to maintain our good start to the season. Looking forward to hearing from those who were at the game.
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Post by ExeterAddick on Oct 21, 2014 21:21:17 GMT
I can scarcely remember a result that we deserved less. I think we had three attacks in the whole game and scored from both of them. Bolton were first to literally everything and moved the ball around faster and with more purpose than we did.
Thank God he's got the defence so well organised, because they were under almost constant pressure today. We desperately need to inject some pace into the side - the game passes Jackson by entirely now and if Buyens is the new Kinsella then I'm the new Pele.
The main plus, aside from the three points, is that we've showed some character to grind out a win without Vetokele and JBG, by far our best attacking players. I still think we've got enough about us to secure a top half finish, but the playoffs are a step to far and in many ways I hope we don't get there this season because we're clearly not ready.
As a complete aside, Henderson is the best keeper we've had since Deano - great signing.
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Post by valleyviper on Oct 21, 2014 21:23:04 GMT
Believe this is the 4th game we've won where possession stats put us at below 40%, we all are aware of the saying, "possession is 9 tenths of the law", but at Charlton we've been been pinching games and points so far this season, what will happen when either we have the majority of possession and lose or the results actually reflect the possession we had?, is any body's guess!
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Post by reamsofverse on Oct 21, 2014 21:27:07 GMT
If that's a dig at me mate Buyens is playing a completely different role at Charlton than the one he had at Standard and it doesn't suit him.
When I quoted that he would be the new Kinsella I did so fully expecting him to come here and take up a similar role but he hasn't and for me we are not seeing the best of him and remember he didn't have JJ next to him in Belgium.
I am comfortable with how I rated him back in the summer and stand by it having seen him a few times last season when he always impressed me.
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Post by wellingaddick on Oct 21, 2014 21:31:35 GMT
The bottom line is 3 points. But oh dear, our defence cannot continue to hold out like this match after match. BP has got to find a way to stop this team from losing possession so easily and giving away upteen corners a game. Once again and against one of the worse teams in the division, our midfield was too easily bypassed. A box to box midfielder has to be of highest priority.
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Post by jonkool on Oct 21, 2014 21:32:48 GMT
In the car with Big Andy and 101. We played some eat stuff in the first half andost in the ground were stunned when George put us in front and again when he laid on the skipper for number 2. But then we became so nervy and anxious and allowed a less than impressive Bolton team to dominate possession thank goodness they were poor particularly with that lump Beckford up front. Have to say that we do have quality at GK and CB and these lads have so much to do with our ability to cling on. Big Bob had dinner with Roly last night and again this evening and has indicated that he will remind the owner that 6 of the 7 subs were U21 lads. Would be nice if much needed strengthening was the number 1 topic of conversation
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Post by ExeterAddick on Oct 21, 2014 21:34:58 GMT
If that's a dig at me mate Buyens is playing a completely different role at Charlton than the one he had at Standard and it doesn't suit him. When I quoted that he would be the new Kinsella I did so fully expecting him to come here and take up a similar role but he hasn't and for me we are not seeing the best of him and remember he didn't have JJ next to him in Belgium. I am comfortable with how I rated him back in the summer and stand by it having seen him a few times last season when he always impressed me. Not a dig at all mate - I didn't remember who'd started that comparison. Out of interest, what role was he playing at Liege? He seems to lack the pace and speed to be a real attacking threat and he regularly takes one touch too many. I'd be inclined to keep him as the holding player, but even then he needs to be firmer in the tackle. I was reasonably impressed with him for the first few games, but he seems to have lost a yard of pace and most of his commitment since then.
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Post by bigbob on Oct 21, 2014 21:37:24 GMT
I thought buyens had a good first half, set up the first goal and made some good passes. He just disappeared for the second half, but so did most the side. Wiggins poor, Wilson is not the right back he was last season. Bikey and TBH with Hendo behind them won us the game. Bolton just walked past our midfield, embarrassing.
But at the end of the day 3 points!
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Post by seriouslyred on Oct 21, 2014 21:47:44 GMT
Another win takes us back to seventh in an average division. We had little possession in their half but our chances were taken clinically. Tucudean really showed up with a brilliant first touch then sliding it in past the keeper... Then a champions league style run up into the covered end surprising a few fans lol Second goal was sweet. Upside - the back five again(!) and Tucudean plus Cousins looked good. Downside - none! We won FFS another three points so we must be on double where we were last season with a chance to break into the top six on Friday.
All we have to do is secure another 12 or so points by 1 Jan the club hold up their side and invest in players... The bench was weak tonight but should be stronger Friday.
Do you know what, I don't care about possession because I see the foundations of a decent side...add three decent players and our best 18 are a match for anyone!
Oh and a great response to Saturday.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 21:51:37 GMT
I couldn't give a rats arse how many shots we had or how much possession they had. Just got back from the game and I am over the moon we managed to win, against the odds. A real fighting backs to the wall job. The only stat that you need to concern yourself with is Charlton 2- Notlob 1. I have had a few sherbets, so I will post the rest tomorrow. Come on you Addicks.
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Post by squareball on Oct 21, 2014 21:52:14 GMT
I will take those points thank you. Two very well worked goals from open play. We played ok in the first half. They certainly had a lot of possession in the 2nd but it was a lot of bluster and bolloxed for most of it. Their goal was lucky I thought, a scuffed shot that went under so many legs it was unreal. For all their possession they only really one attempt cleared off the line. The rest of their attempt were wayward or straight at the keeper a bit tamely. Lots of poor corners and free kicks put all their good stats second to the only one that matters. Henderson 7 ... Played well without having to stretch himself. Wiggins 5. Decent first half. Poor in the second. Ben Haim. 6. A bit dopey at times. Bikey. 7. Very solid. Wilson. 6. Not quite switched on. Cousins. 5. Very poor all game Buyens. 6. Good first half JJ 6 extra point for the goal. A great team goal. Bulot . 6. Not great Moussa 7. I thought he played well. The ball sticks to him. Tucudean. 7. Played well when he wasn't falling over. Took his goal excellently. Subs did ok. A win is a win. We will play better and lose .
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Post by bexleyboy on Oct 21, 2014 21:55:22 GMT
Buyons MOM tonight covered every inch of the park St both ends ... Deserved win for 53 mins we played some excellent football with Moussa , Bulot, George, Buyons all involved .... But we gave Bolton hope they did not deserve but for all there procession and pressure around our box did Henderson gave a save to make ? We defended well got men behind the ball not helped by a very poor ref who kept putting us under more pressure with silly free kicks to Bolton at the slightest touch ... But all credit to the boys tonight no easy games in this league 22 points 7th league
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Post by reamsofverse on Oct 21, 2014 21:58:43 GMT
If that's a dig at me mate Buyens is playing a completely different role at Charlton than the one he had at Standard and it doesn't suit him. When I quoted that he would be the new Kinsella I did so fully expecting him to come here and take up a similar role but he hasn't and for me we are not seeing the best of him and remember he didn't have JJ next to him in Belgium. I am comfortable with how I rated him back in the summer and stand by it having seen him a few times last season when he always impressed me. Not a dig at all mate - I didn't remember who'd started that comparison. Out of interest, what role was he playing at Liege? He seems to lack the pace and speed to be a real attacking threat and he regularly takes one touch too many. I'd be inclined to keep him as the holding player, but even then he needs to be firmer in the tackle. I was reasonably impressed with him for the first few games, but he seems to have lost a yard of pace and most of his commitment since then. No problem mate I was just in a grumpy one after the energy I put into the cheering us on tonight, I was that involved I think I've done a hamstring!! From what I saw he was an advanced midfielder at the tip of the triangle not the bottom of it like he is with us.
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Post by ExeterAddick on Oct 21, 2014 22:04:41 GMT
That surprises me, as he doesn't seem to have much attacking instinct. Maybe he's worth a shot further up the pitch. That said, his pass tonight for Tucudean's goal (pretty sure it was him) was one of the best I've seen all season
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Post by pulled off at half time on Oct 21, 2014 22:12:19 GMT
Our goals were the big positive tonight proving we can score without vetokele and they were both sweet goals but as others have said it is always so nervous watching charlton as we can't keep possession and we really are depending on last ditch defending all the time . It is not good for your health watching us as the pressure is relentless . Great result but fear the Fulham game as their midfield could overrun us.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 22:22:04 GMT
Charlton played some good stuff going forward for the 2.0 great goals well worked gr8 pass from buyens and a gr8 take from George equally good play and unselfish pass for 2nd. Bolton then got back on game with a speculative shot through legs but had not really threatened prior, then we defended. However two players scored for us tonight that have been slagged off by some so answered questions 2.1 3 points nuff said possession not seen in league table again hard to beat.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 22:23:45 GMT
Never in doubt as we do not let in more than one goal any game and for all their possession, outside the goal I can't remember Henderson having a really meaningful save to make all night. We had gears to move I to if needs be. With a bench having an average age of sub 20, a solid looking back 5 and Tuc looking decent again it is the midfield which needs sorting if we are to push on.
I do miss Solly's tackles on a cold Tuesday evening game.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 4:55:02 GMT
Buyons MOM tonight covered every inch of the park St both ends ... Deserved win for 53 mins we played some excellent football with Moussa , Bulot, George, Buyons all involved .... But we gave Bolton hope they did not deserve but for all there procession and pressure around our box did Henderson gave a save to make ? We defended well got men behind the ball not helped by a very poor ref who kept putting us under more pressure with silly free kicks to Bolton at the slightest touch ... But all credit to the boys tonight no easy games in this league 22 points 7th league Buyens 'Man of the Match" ......honestly BB....do you watch our games from behind a brick wall ?
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Post by muttleycafc on Oct 22, 2014 6:45:30 GMT
Make no mistake, Bolton were incredibly poor going forwards, often taking the wrong decision. We were fortunate to be playing them last night. Basically, we rely on the defence - I thought Wilson did his job well - we have great centre halfs and keeper although Wiggins is not the player he was.
Buyens started the game very well, but his influence lessened as the game went on. Cousins needs to work on his first touch but puts in a shift and competes. Tucadean's goal was total class and the high spot of the night. We do seem to be less able to support players,so we pass the ball and the receiver is crowded out with only a backwards pass on if he is lucky, but opponents always seem to have an option. We do not win our fair share of 50/50s - midfield headers etc... Lots to work on. Unbelievable we are so high in the table tbh.
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Post by fatscholes on Oct 22, 2014 7:57:03 GMT
We scored 2 very good goals last night & we held on for the result. However I dont think that we were ever going to get beaten as for all their possession and shots, 19 i believe, there were only 4 that really had us scrambling, one being the goal & one which Wilson or Wiggins (cant remember exactly) cleared off the line.
More importantly we need to sort out to clear deficiencies in our setup 1) Their goal came from a corner, we cleared it initially but didnt pick up the 2nd ball. I thought we were vunerable from each due to our zonal setup. I also noted that we dont have 2 players on the posts all the time. They either start their and move off before kick is taken, or they start 5 or 6 yrds into the pitch and then move onto them, leaving a gap for others to run into.
2) The softness in midfield. We gave away so much space last night & didnt put a clean tackle in for about 20 mins. This was similar to birmingham when we moved Cousins to the wing, after controlling the central 3rd.
All in all though 3 points and a win post our first defeat
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Post by ridgeback on Oct 22, 2014 8:29:24 GMT
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Post by ridgeback on Oct 22, 2014 8:31:32 GMT
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Post by ridgeback on Oct 22, 2014 8:33:16 GMT
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Post by ridgeback on Oct 22, 2014 8:34:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 11:03:44 GMT
Another win takes us back to seventh in an average division. We had little possession in their half but our chances were taken clinically. Tucudean really showed up with a brilliant first touch then sliding it in past the keeper... Then a champions league style run up into the covered end surprising a few fans lol Second goal was sweet. Upside - the back five again(!) and Tucudean plus Cousins looked good. Downside - none! We won FFS another three points so we must be on double where we were last season with a chance to break into the top six on Friday. All we have to do is secure another 12 or so points by 1 Jan the club hold up their side and invest in players... The bench was weak tonight but should be stronger Friday. Do you know what, I don't care about possession because I see the foundations of a decent side...add three decent players and our best 18 are a match for anyone! Oh and a great response to Saturday. It probably feels like I'm seeking out your posts, but perhaps we just see things so differently. Yes it was a win, and important to get one after Saturday - but no downsides? Bolton were poor, no bones about it, but we made them look an awful lot better than they are. They had 62% of the ball, they created four times as many chances as we did. We had so little threat, but the only two shots we had on target we scored from. We stole that game, we neither deserved it nor earned it - we were dominated by a team who from the table would appear to be the second worst team in the division. We are nowhere near good enough to claim to be the 7th best team in the division. TalkSport said last night that we were in amazing form, having only lost once all season, but we're so far from that it's embarrassing. What we do have is a fantastic centre half pairing - the best since we were relegated from the Prem - and a very decent goalkeeper. We concede less than we score - but we don't score many, and the injured Vetokele's scored nearly half of the ones we have. The front two last night were static, the midfield pedestrian, the wide men anonymous - how on earth Bulot is still picked to start is beyond me. The subs were just plain odd. Had that been a Powell performance he'd - quite rightly - have been taken to pieces on here. And here's another downside - whilst our best XI might get us to upper mid-table, there's really nothing behind it but a bunch of untried if promising kids. It's all very well saying that if we added 3 players we'd have a decent 18, but that just means right now we're always going to be one short for a match squad. Is that good enough, really? No downsides my arse.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 11:48:30 GMT
I agree with fatscholes when he said: "I dont think that we were ever going to get beaten for all their possession and shots."
You need to stop hyperventilating, rikofold, pour a beer, mellow out and enjoy the fact that we have a more successful team than we have had in about eight seasons. What is embarrassing about that?
You say we have nothing behind the best XI. But we were missing perhaps our three best players last night in Vetokele, Gudmundsson and Solly. Others came in and we scored two excellent goals and won - and never really looked like losing , as fatscholes points out.
The only thing that is embarrassing is the Charlton Self-Loathing Society to which some of our supporters subscribe, presumably due to deep-seated reasons of severe psychological scarring sustained during the ghastly Dowie/Pardew/Parkinson/Powell era. It's what leads so-called supporters to slag off Tucudean as "useless" and demand that Jackson is benched because he is "finished". What a good thing nobody takes any notice of these moaning minnies because those two were probably our best players last night.
You are obviously a glass-is-half-empty sort of a guy, rik, and tempermentally I am exactly the opposite. But for your own sake, at least try to make an effort to enjoy the success we're currently tasting from our half-full glass and look forward to it being replenished in January!
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Post by muttleycafc on Oct 22, 2014 12:30:15 GMT
When does something stop being lucky and become something more? On Saturday we were totally dominated by Bournemouth, yet only lost by one goal. None of our games have been decided by more than one goal. We were totally dominated by Norwich recently but won by one goal! Yes, it is clear that many teams have worked out how to play us, but beating us is another matter. It is quite difficult to get my head around as much of last night’s game wasn’t a great improvement over Saturday – but we won it and we find ourselves right up there with the same points as Forest.
We have to look at the defence – we have managed to aquire a fantastic keeper and probably one of the most inspirational centre halves in my memory in Bikey. These two are players we would really miss. If only we didn’t play a zonal defence for set pieces we would probably be at the top of the table having been outplayed in nearly every game! What we need is clear – a central midfielder of the right quality and a striker too. But as long as we can put out a defence with Henderson and Bikey in it, we are always going to have a chance.
Not pretty or good for the heart, but it is what it is.
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Post by seriouslyred on Oct 22, 2014 12:43:12 GMT
Another win takes us back to seventh in an average division. We had little possession in their half but our chances were taken clinically. Tucudean really showed up with a brilliant first touch then sliding it in past the keeper... Then a champions league style run up into the covered end surprising a few fans lol Second goal was sweet. Upside - the back five again(!) and Tucudean plus Cousins looked good. Downside - none! We won FFS another three points so we must be on double where we were last season with a chance to break into the top six on Friday. All we have to do is secure another 12 or so points by 1 Jan the club hold up their side and invest in players... The bench was weak tonight but should be stronger Friday. Do you know what, I don't care about possession because I see the foundations of a decent side...add three decent players and our best 18 are a match for anyone! Oh and a great response to Saturday. It probably feels like I'm seeking out your posts, but perhaps we just see things so differently. Yes it was a win, and important to get one after Saturday - but no downsides? Bolton were poor, no bones about it, but we made them look an awful lot better than they are. They had 62% of the ball, they created four times as many chances as we did. We had so little threat, but the only two shots we had on target we scored from. We stole that game, we neither deserved it nor earned it - we were dominated by a team who from the table would appear to be the second worst team in the division. We are nowhere near good enough to claim to be the 7th best team in the division. TalkSport said last night that we were in amazing form, having only lost once all season, but we're so far from that it's embarrassing. What we do have is a fantastic centre half pairing - the best since we were relegated from the Prem - and a very decent goalkeeper. We concede less than we score - but we don't score many, and the injured Vetokele's scored nearly half of the ones we have. The front two last night were static, the midfield pedestrian, the wide men anonymous - how on earth Bulot is still picked to start is beyond me. The subs were just plain odd. Had that been a Powell performance he'd - quite rightly - have been taken to pieces on here. And here's another downside - whilst our best XI might get us to upper mid-table, there's really nothing behind it but a bunch of untried if promising kids. It's all very well saying that if we added 3 players we'd have a decent 18, but that just means right now we're always going to be one short for a match squad. Is that good enough, really? No downsides my arse. You don't get it do you?! I don't have to talk down my/our club because there are plenty of voices in that space. Plenty - in fact over on the other channel people are starting to ask why! We won without Solly, Gudmundsson and Vetokele. And that is why Bulot and Tucudean get a start. Some want more players now but Solly back Friday and the other two back early November so all good. Looked at the table for last three seasons and looks like we need 36 points from 23 games to be sixth. Yep 14 more points from 10 games to be somewhere at the halfway mark And we are averaging 1.7 points per game right now. Agreed our centre backs are top drawer and would add that we don't miss Hamer. Our back five is solid AND we have cover in every position. Our front six is brand new and a work in progress - Tucudean, Jackson, Wilson and Moussa etc are playing for their Charlton careers precisely because it's a small squad and the management has stated more than once that we will strengthen in January. I know you're not convinced about transfermarkt but there is a plethora of strikers around Europe valued at €1.5-2m. Thing is it might cost double that to land them and can you guarantee they will be better than an improving Tucudean? So we can improve and the nine or ten candidates for the front six know that if they don't improve then new players will be acquired. So the jury is out on some and everyone will be watching them on Friday. So on the whole no downside because we are travelling in the right direction and could well be 6th at Christmas - what's not to like?! My posting philosophy is based on supporting the badge the players and the board plus analysing where we might go. Not blame nor regrets as life is too short. Some call it mindless optimism but there's more to it than that
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Post by muttleycafc on Oct 22, 2014 12:47:46 GMT
I really think there is a player in Mousa - I'd like to see him get more starts as I think he is a player who can push on further.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 13:34:27 GMT
Don't you ever tire of making stuff up IA? How you extrapolate a response to someone claiming there are no downsides to being hugely dominated by a team second bottom to me being a pessimist who can't enjoy our current points tally is beyond me.
For the record I'm a natural optimist, but a lifetime of football has taught me that applying caution and patience is good counsel: the twin imposters of triumph and disaster. It's also sensible to rely on facts rather than opinions, which is why my welcome of RD is more cautious than yours, why I can confidently state we've had a good start but reserve judgement on the future - I remember us being 3rd in the old First Division with Millwall top after a few games; both clubs finished bottom two.
Perhaps we define success differently. At best - and particularly in recent weeks - I see a team earning points but scarcely deserving them. In many ways it's to Bob's credit that's been happening: it's fine that we're a counter attacking team, good that we prefer to play a nice blend of football - but come on, we're so one-dimensional that teams have quickly worked out pressing us high tends to get them the ball back fairly quickly, and as a result we're conceding not just possession but territory and chances, creating very little in the meantime.
It's not pessimistic to imagine a trend where we're conceding 3 times as many chances every game will end in us conceding more goals than we score in most games. FFS, there have only been two games in our season to date where we've had more than 5 shots on target, and the last one of those was back in August against ten men. Our last 5 has seen us manage barely 2 shots per game on average.
So no, I don't think there are no downsides, and it doesn't take a pessimist to see them.
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